Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

mythwelcome and shutdown/wakeup

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ebenblues at yahoo

Jan 17, 2008, 10:36 PM

Post #1 of 7 (1609 views)
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mythwelcome and shutdown/wakeup

Hi,

I'm working on building my first myth box and I'm very impressed with the functionality and quality of the software so far. I have two questions related to the auto shutdown/wakeup feature of mythtv.

First, does mythbackend take into account the next time it is supposed to grab EPG data when it calculates the next wakeup time? I found this post from June 2007 which provides a SetAlarm script that goes through the pain of searching the mythfilldatabase log for the next suggested update time, checks if
it's sooner than when mythbackend wants to wake the box up and uses the closer time as the wakeup time.

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/280050?search_string=acpi;#280050

I'm hoping that mythbackend does this automatically in 0.20 (or maybe in svn)?

Second, I noticed on a box that's both a frontend and backend, that mythbackend won't auto-shutdown the box if mythfrontend is running, even if mythfrontend has been sitting idle at the menu screen for a long period of time. I've read about mythwelcome, but as far as I can tell, it seems like more of a workaround. Frankly, the mythwelcome screen is very confusing for someone who doesn't know anything about how myth works, i.e., my wife. To me, the ultimate user friendly experience would be to not have mythwelcome at all, and to have some way for mythbackend to know if the frontend (or any frontend) has been sitting idle at a menu for X number of minutes and initiate shutdown of the box then. I know the coding of that may be more complex, but I think the current scheme surfaces far too much detail to the user.

I couldn't find any discussion about this in the archives so I hope this isn't something that's already been talked about, but if not, I'd be interested in discussing more user-friendly possibilities. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is and contribute some code, but I didn't know if there was a good reason why it's implemented the way it is.

Thanks,
James

------------------------------
"The humble learn the fastest because they don't waste time on defending a false image."

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John.Veness.myth at pelago

Jan 20, 2008, 2:24 PM

Post #2 of 7 (1451 views)
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Re: mythwelcome and shutdown/wakeup [In reply to]

James Hood wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm working on building my first myth box and I'm very impressed with the functionality and quality of the software so far. I have two questions related to the auto shutdown/wakeup feature of mythtv.
>
> First, does mythbackend take into account the next time it is supposed to grab EPG data when it calculates the next wakeup time? I found this post from June 2007 which provides a SetAlarm script that goes through the pain of searching the mythfilldatabase log for the next suggested update time, checks if
> it's sooner than when mythbackend wants to wake the box up and uses the closer time as the wakeup time.
>
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/280050?search_string=acpi;#280050
>
> I'm hoping that mythbackend does this automatically in 0.20 (or maybe in svn)?
>
> Second, I noticed on a box that's both a frontend and backend, that mythbackend won't auto-shutdown the box if mythfrontend is running, even if mythfrontend has been sitting idle at the menu screen for a long period of time. I've read about mythwelcome, but as far as I can tell, it seems like more of a workaround. Frankly, the mythwelcome screen is very confusing for someone who doesn't know anything about how myth works, i.e., my wife. To me, the ultimate user friendly experience would be to not have mythwelcome at all, and to have some way for mythbackend to know if the frontend (or any frontend) has been sitting idle at a menu for X number of minutes and initiate shutdown of the box then. I know the coding of that may be more complex, but I think the current scheme surfaces far too much detail to the user.
>
> I couldn't find any discussion about this in the archives so I hope this isn't something that's already been talked about, but if not, I'd be interested in discussing more user-friendly possibilities. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is and contribute some code, but I didn't know if there was a good reason why it's implemented the way it is.
>
> Thanks,
> James

When I first came across mythwelcome, I too thought that it was a bit of
a kludge. Why does there have to be a separate executable, just to let
the backend know that noone is running the frontend. Couldn't instead
the top-level screen of mythfrontend act as a welcome/idle screen? Or as
you suggest, some sort of idle timer, so it doesn't matter if the user
does not navigate up to the top-level.

Anyway, since then I've just accepted things are the way that they are.
I've told my wife that she needs to Esc out until it will go no further,
and soon the box will automatically shutdown if it's not recording etc.
and it seems acceptable.

Cheers,

John

--
John Veness, MythTV user, UK, DVB-T
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derliebegott at gmail

Jan 20, 2008, 3:20 PM

Post #3 of 7 (1469 views)
Permalink

Re: mythwelcome and shutdown/wakeup [In reply to]

2008/1/20, John Veness <John.Veness.myth [at] pelago>:
> James Hood wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm working on building my first myth box and I'm very impressed with the functionality and quality of the software so far. I have two questions related to the auto shutdown/wakeup feature of mythtv.
> >
> > First, does mythbackend take into account the next time it is supposed to grab EPG data when it calculates the next wakeup time? I found this post from June 2007 which provides a SetAlarm script that goes through the pain of searching the mythfilldatabase log for the next suggested update time, checks if
> > it's sooner than when mythbackend wants to wake the box up and uses the closer time as the wakeup time.
> >
> > http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/280050?search_string=acpi;#280050
> >
> > I'm hoping that mythbackend does this automatically in 0.20 (or maybe in svn)?
> >
> > Second, I noticed on a box that's both a frontend and backend, that mythbackend won't auto-shutdown the box if mythfrontend is running, even if mythfrontend has been sitting idle at the menu screen for a long period of time. I've read about mythwelcome, but as far as I can tell, it seems like more of a workaround. Frankly, the mythwelcome screen is very confusing for someone who doesn't know anything about how myth works, i.e., my wife. To me, the ultimate user friendly experience would be to not have mythwelcome at all, and to have some way for mythbackend to know if the frontend (or any frontend) has been sitting idle at a menu for X number of minutes and initiate shutdown of the box then. I know the coding of that may be more complex, but I think the current scheme surfaces far too much detail to the user.
> >
> > I couldn't find any discussion about this in the archives so I hope this isn't something that's already been talked about, but if not, I'd be interested in discussing more user-friendly possibilities. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is and contribute some code, but I didn't know if there was a good reason why it's implemented the way it is.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > James
>
> When I first came across mythwelcome, I too thought that it was a bit of
> a kludge. Why does there have to be a separate executable, just to let
> the backend know that noone is running the frontend. Couldn't instead
> the top-level screen of mythfrontend act as a welcome/idle screen? Or as
> you suggest, some sort of idle timer, so it doesn't matter if the user
> does not navigate up to the top-level.
>
> Anyway, since then I've just accepted things are the way that they are.
> I've told my wife that she needs to Esc out until it will go no further,
> and soon the box will automatically shutdown if it's not recording etc.
> and it seems acceptable.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John

I am xscreensaver and a small perl script to handle this. When the
screensaver turns black (blank), a perl script is started which kills
mythfrontend. there is somewhere on the list here.
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

support at ocg

Jan 20, 2008, 4:58 PM

Post #4 of 7 (1466 views)
Permalink

Re: mythwelcome and shutdown/wakeup [In reply to]

There is a script on www.generationd.com which allows mythshutdown to set
the next wakeup time for the EARLIER of: the next scheduled recording, or
the recommended EPG update time.

Very handy!

MD

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mythtv-users-bounces [at] mythtv
> [mailto:mythtv-users-bounces [at] mythtv] On Behalf Of Ma Begaj
> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 6:20 PM
> To: Myth TV Users List
> Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] mythwelcome and shutdown/wakeup
>
> 2008/1/20, John Veness <John.Veness.myth [at] pelago>:
> > James Hood wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm working on building my first myth box and I'm very
> impressed with the functionality and quality of the software
> so far. I have two questions related to the auto
> shutdown/wakeup feature of mythtv.
> > >
> > > First, does mythbackend take into account the next time it is
> > > supposed to grab EPG data when it calculates the next
> wakeup time? I found this post from June 2007 which provides
> a SetAlarm script that goes through the pain of searching the
> mythfilldatabase log for the next suggested update time,
> checks if it's sooner than when mythbackend wants to wake
> the box up and uses the closer time as the wakeup time.
> > >
> > >
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/280050?search_str
> > > ing=acpi;#280050
> > >
> > > I'm hoping that mythbackend does this automatically in
> 0.20 (or maybe in svn)?
> > >
> > > Second, I noticed on a box that's both a frontend and
> backend, that mythbackend won't auto-shutdown the box if
> mythfrontend is running, even if mythfrontend has been
> sitting idle at the menu screen for a long period of time.
> I've read about mythwelcome, but as far as I can tell, it
> seems like more of a workaround. Frankly, the mythwelcome
> screen is very confusing for someone who doesn't know
> anything about how myth works, i.e., my wife. To me, the
> ultimate user friendly experience would be to not have
> mythwelcome at all, and to have some way for mythbackend to
> know if the frontend (or any frontend) has been sitting idle
> at a menu for X number of minutes and initiate shutdown of
> the box then. I know the coding of that may be more complex,
> but I think the current scheme surfaces far too much detail
> to the user.
> > >
> > > I couldn't find any discussion about this in the archives
> so I hope this isn't something that's already been talked
> about, but if not, I'd be interested in discussing more
> user-friendly possibilities. I'm willing to put my money
> where my mouth is and contribute some code, but I didn't know
> if there was a good reason why it's implemented the way it is.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > James
> >
> > When I first came across mythwelcome, I too thought that it
> was a bit
> > of a kludge. Why does there have to be a separate
> executable, just to
> > let the backend know that noone is running the frontend. Couldn't
> > instead the top-level screen of mythfrontend act as a welcome/idle
> > screen? Or as you suggest, some sort of idle timer, so it doesn't
> > matter if the user does not navigate up to the top-level.
> >
> > Anyway, since then I've just accepted things are the way
> that they are.
> > I've told my wife that she needs to Esc out until it will go no
> > further, and soon the box will automatically shutdown if
> it's not recording etc.
> > and it seems acceptable.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > John
>
> I am xscreensaver and a small perl script to handle this.
> When the screensaver turns black (blank), a perl script is
> started which kills mythfrontend. there is somewhere on the list here.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

ebenblues at yahoo

Jan 20, 2008, 6:38 PM

Post #5 of 7 (1479 views)
Permalink

Re: mythwelcome and shutdown/wakeup [In reply to]

----- Original Message ----
> From: Ma Begaj <derliebegott [at] gmail>
> To: Discussion about mythtv <mythtv-users [at] mythtv>
> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 4:20:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] mythwelcome and shutdown/wakeup
>
> 2008/1/20, John Veness :
> > James Hood wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm working on building my first myth box and I'm very
> impressed
>
with the functionality and quality of the software so far. I have
> two
>
questions related to the auto shutdown/wakeup feature of mythtv.
> > >
> > > First, does mythbackend take into account the next time it
> is
>
supposed to grab EPG data when it calculates the next wakeup time? I
> found
>
this post from June 2007 which provides a SetAlarm script that
> goes
>
through the pain of searching the mythfilldatabase log for the
> next
>
suggested update time, checks if
> > > it's sooner than when mythbackend wants to wake the box up
> and
>
uses the closer time as the wakeup time.
> > >
> >
> >
>
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/280050?search_string=acpi;#2
> 80050
> > >
> > > I'm hoping that mythbackend does this automatically in 0.20
> (or
>
maybe in svn)?
> > >
> > > Second, I noticed on a box that's both a frontend and backend,
> that
>
mythbackend won't auto-shutdown the box if mythfrontend is
> running,
>
even if mythfrontend has been sitting idle at the menu screen for a
> long
>
period of time. I've read about mythwelcome, but as far as I can
> tell,
>
it seems like more of a workaround. Frankly, the mythwelcome screen
> is
>
very confusing for someone who doesn't know anything about how
> myth
>
works, i.e., my wife. To me, the ultimate user friendly experience
> would
>
be to not have mythwelcome at all, and to have some way for
> mythbackend
>
to know if the frontend (or any frontend) has been sitting idle at
> a
>
menu for X number of minutes and initiate shutdown of the box then.
> I
>
know the coding of that may be more complex, but I think the
> current
>
scheme surfaces far too much detail to the user.
> > >
> > > I couldn't find any discussion about this in the archives so I
> hope
>
this isn't something that's already been talked about, but if not,
> I'd
>
be interested in discussing more user-friendly possibilities.
> I'm
>
willing to put my money where my mouth is and contribute some code, but
> I
>
didn't know if there was a good reason why it's implemented the way
> it
>
is.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > James
> >
> > When I first came across mythwelcome, I too thought that it was a
> bit
>
of
> > a kludge. Why does there have to be a separate executable, just
> to
>
let
> > the backend know that noone is running the frontend. Couldn't instead
> > the top-level screen of mythfrontend act as a welcome/idle screen?
> Or
>
as
> > you suggest, some sort of idle timer, so it doesn't matter if
> the
>
user
> > does not navigate up to the top-level.
> >
> > Anyway, since then I've just accepted things are the way that
> they
>
are.
> > I've told my wife that she needs to Esc out until it will go
> no
>
further,
> > and soon the box will automatically shutdown if it's not
> recording
>
etc.
> > and it seems acceptable.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > John
>
> I am xscreensaver and a small perl script to handle this. When the
> screensaver turns black (blank), a perl script is started which kills
> mythfrontend. there is somewhere on the list here.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

Thanks for the responses. I agree these are all valid workarounds. I guess I was just trying to get a discussion going on how it *should* work from a usability standpoint with no hacking or workarounds necessary. From the responses, it sounds like at least one other person feels like I do about mythwelcome being kludgy and others have to use external scripts to live without it. I'll try to look and see how difficult this would be to implement in the code.

James

------------------------------
"The humble learn the fastest because they don't waste time on defending a false image."

____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
_______________________________________________
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http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

ebenblues at yahoo

Jan 20, 2008, 6:47 PM

Post #6 of 7 (1461 views)
Permalink

Re: mythwelcome and shutdown/wakeup [In reply to]

----- Original Message ----
> From: Michelle Dupuis <support [at] ocg>
> To: Myth TV Users List <mythtv-users [at] mythtv>
> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 5:58:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] mythwelcome and shutdown/wakeup
>
> There is a script on www.generationd.com which allows mythshutdown
> to
>
set
> the next wakeup time for the EARLIER of: the next scheduled
> recording,
>
or
> the recommended EPG update time.
>
> Very handy!
>
> MD
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mythtv-users-bounces [at] mythtv
> > [mailto:mythtv-users-bounces [at] mythtv] On Behalf Of Ma Begaj
> > Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 6:20 PM
> > To: Myth TV Users List
> > Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] mythwelcome and shutdown/wakeup
> >
> > 2008/1/20, John Veness :
> > > James Hood wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I'm working on building my first myth box and I'm very
> > impressed with the functionality and quality of the software
> > so far. I have two questions related to the auto
> > shutdown/wakeup feature of mythtv.
> > > >
> > > > First, does mythbackend take into account the next time it is
> > > > supposed to grab EPG data when it calculates the next
> > wakeup time? I found this post from June 2007 which provides
> > a SetAlarm script that goes through the pain of searching the
> > mythfilldatabase log for the next suggested update time,
> > checks if it's sooner than when mythbackend wants to wake
> > the box up and uses the closer time as the wakeup time.
> > > >
> > > >
> > http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/280050?search_str
> > > > ing=acpi;#280050
> > > >
> > > > I'm hoping that mythbackend does this automatically in
> > 0.20 (or maybe in svn)?
> > > >
> > > > Second, I noticed on a box that's both a frontend and
> > backend, that mythbackend won't auto-shutdown the box if
> > mythfrontend is running, even if mythfrontend has been
> > sitting idle at the menu screen for a long period of time.
> > I've read about mythwelcome, but as far as I can tell, it
> > seems like more of a workaround. Frankly, the mythwelcome
> > screen is very confusing for someone who doesn't know
> > anything about how myth works, i.e., my wife. To me, the
> > ultimate user friendly experience would be to not have
> > mythwelcome at all, and to have some way for mythbackend to
> > know if the frontend (or any frontend) has been sitting idle
> > at a menu for X number of minutes and initiate shutdown of
> > the box then. I know the coding of that may be more complex,
> > but I think the current scheme surfaces far too much detail
> > to the user.
> > > >
> > > > I couldn't find any discussion about this in the archives
> > so I hope this isn't something that's already been talked
> > about, but if not, I'd be interested in discussing more
> > user-friendly possibilities. I'm willing to put my money
> > where my mouth is and contribute some code, but I didn't know
> > if there was a good reason why it's implemented the way it is.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > James
> > >
> > > When I first came across mythwelcome, I too thought that it
> > was a bit
> > > of a kludge. Why does there have to be a separate
> > executable, just to
> > > let the backend know that noone is running the frontend. Couldn't
> > > instead the top-level screen of mythfrontend act as a welcome/idle
> > > screen? Or as you suggest, some sort of idle timer, so it doesn't
> > > matter if the user does not navigate up to the top-level.
> > >
> > > Anyway, since then I've just accepted things are the way
> > that they are.
> > > I've told my wife that she needs to Esc out until it will go no
> > > further, and soon the box will automatically shutdown if
> > it's not recording etc.
> > > and it seems acceptable.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > John
> >
> > I am xscreensaver and a small perl script to handle this.
> > When the screensaver turns black (blank), a perl script is
> > started which kills mythfrontend. there is somewhere on the
> list
>
here.
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtv-users mailing list
> > mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

Thanks for the link. Just to answer my original first question, I looked at the code and mythbackend does *not* take the next time it will grab Program Guide data into account when calculating the next startup time. It only looks at the next time it is scheduled to record a program. The good news is when the backend does eventually start, if it is past the scheduled time to get Program Guide data, it will grab the data then. So it's not broken, but it might be nice to have the option to wakeup the system to get EPG data.

James

------------------------------
"The humble learn the fastest because they don't waste time on defending a false image."

____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
_______________________________________________
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mtdean at thirdcontact

Jan 21, 2008, 9:01 AM

Post #7 of 7 (1449 views)
Permalink

Re: mythwelcome and shutdown/wakeup [In reply to]

On 01/20/2008 09:47 PM, James Hood wrote:
> Thanks for the link. Just to answer my original first question, I looked at the code and mythbackend does *not* take the next time it will grab Program Guide data into account when calculating the next startup time. It only looks at the next time it is scheduled to record a program.
>

While mythbackend doesn't, please ensure that mythshutdown/mythwelcome
(whatever code it is that writes the boot time) doesn't, either. I
don't use them, so I can't say. When I saw your first message come
across, I couldn't remember whether Paul Harrison had changed them (I'm
also assuming one of them, and not mythbackend, decide and write the
time to boot, though I didn't look at the code) to look at the suggested
next run time or mythfilldatabase start/end periods and I haven't gotten
a chance to look.

> The good news is when the backend does eventually start, if it is past the scheduled time to get Program Guide data, it will grab the data then. So it's not broken, but it might be nice to have the option to wakeup the system to get EPG data.

This I remembered, so since you started to look up the part I didn't
know, I figured I should post the rest of my response, now. See the
following posts (and/or threads) for more info.

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/commits/263447#263447
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/264096#264096
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/290527#290527
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/290606#290606

Mike
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