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ray at comarre

Jun 24, 2003, 3:05 PM

Post #1 of 33 (3983 views)
Permalink

DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section)

I though ti might be useful to gather in one convenient place the
information we have about what capture cards do and do not work with Myth.
What follows is most likely NOT ACCURATE; it represents my best guesses
based on searching through the myth-users list and sometimes trying to make
sense of ambiguous messages and to resolve disagreements. If people would
read it and post corrections, including information about cards not
mentioned, I will revise it, then send it to Robert for possible inclusion
in the HowTo. (I don't know how to submit proposed additions to the FAQ;
can someone tell me?)

You will note that for most cards, I found no information as to whether
they work with btaudio. If people could add thay information, it would be a
good part of a FAQ.

Once more: people should NOT RELY on the information below. It is a DRAFT,
posted here so people who use the various cards can correct errors.
Personally, the only 3 cards I've worked with are older WInTV Go cards
(successful), AverTV PVR cards (some successful, others not), and an ATI
AIW7500 (unsuccessful).

-----------------DRAFT begins--------------------

Q. What video capture cards work with MythTV?

A. As a general matter, any capture card that works with the video4linux
(v4l) extensions to the Linux kernel will work with MythTV. Any video card
can provide audio through a patch cable to a sound card's Line-In jack;
some allow you to record sound directly, for example by use of the btaudio
driver.

No one individual can personally identify all the cards that do and do not
work with MythTV. The following card list is based on reports that appear
on the myth-users mailing list. It is current as of late June 2003. From
time to time, we will try to update the information here based on reports
to the list, but for the most current information, search the list's recent
archives.

The Linux kernel source includes, in
./Documentation/video4linux/bttv/CARDLIST, a list of the cards believed to
work with the bttv kernel driver. More information about bttv can be found
at http://bytesex.org/bttv/ .

Newer capture cards use the experimental IVTV driver, not included as part
of standard 2.4.x kernel sources. More information about IVTV can be found
at http://ivtv.sourceforge.net/ .

If a card is not mentioned below, then there are no recent reports about it
on the myth-users list.

ATI All-In-Wonder 7500. Video capture does NOT work under Linux (We know
there are reports around saying it does work; we have seen them too. We
cannot confirm any of these reports. Please send us a correction for this
entry ONLY if you personally have this card working and will take the time
to tell us how you did it.)

ATI All-In-Wonder 8500. Video capture does NOT work under Linux. (We know
there are reports around saying it does work; we have seen them too. We
cannot confirm any of these reports. Please send us a correction for this
entry ONLY if you personally have this card working and will take the time
to tell us how you did it.)

ATI Wonder VE. Video capture works using the bttv kernel driver.There are
some reports that bttv autodetects the wrong card type or tuner type, so
check the CARDLIST documentation if you have problems there. Audio ??

AverTV Desktop TV PVR. Video capture works using the bttv kernel driver,
though there are some reports of unreliability for an older version of this
card (the one with the Sony daughterboard). Audio requires using a jumper
to a sound card; btaudio does NOT work.

AverTV Studio. Video capture works using the bttv kernel driver. Audio ??
There are reports of problems getting audio to select the proper audio
source (main versus SAP).

Hauppauge WinTV Go. Video capture works with older versions of this card,
which uses a bt878-compatible chip; newer versions use a different chips
that si not yet supported by v4l. Audio requires using a jumper to a sound
card; btaudio does NOT work.

Hauppauge WinTV dbx TV/FM Radio. Video capture works using the bttv kernel
driver; we beliece this is the only Hauppauge card currently shipping that
works with bttv. Audio does work with btaudio.

Hauppauge WinTV HDTV. Video capture does NOT work under Linux.

Hauppauge Win PVR 250. Video capture works using the IVTV kernel driver.
Audio ??

Hauppauge WIn PVR 350. Video capture works using the IVTV kernel driver.
Audio ??

Matrox G200 TV. VIdeo capture probably works with this card, though reports
on the lista re not completely clear. Audio ??

Pinnacle PCTV. Video capture works with some versions of this card; there
are reports that newer versions have a tuner that is not supported by
v4l.Audio requires using a jumper to a sound card; btaudio does NOT work.

-----------------DRAFT ends----------------------

mikegrb at yahoo

Jun 24, 2003, 3:42 PM

Post #2 of 33 (3924 views)
Permalink

Re: DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section) [In reply to]

> ATI Wonder VE. Video capture works using the bttv kernel
> driver.There are some reports that bttv autodetects the wrong card

> type or tuner type, so check the CARDLIST documentation if you
have
> problems there. Audio??
This is the card I am using, no btaudio. Didn't try that aspect
myself but multiple sources said no.

Here are my relevant lines from modules.conf. You didn't mention
wanting to include them but it might be an option.

alias char-major-81 bttv
options bttv card=1 autoload=0 radio=0
post-install bttv insmod tuner type=2

Michael

cannon.trodder at ntlworld

Jun 24, 2003, 3:55 PM

Post #3 of 33 (3898 views)
Permalink

Re: DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section) [In reply to]

>
>Hauppauge WinTV Go. Video capture works with older versions of this
>card, which uses a bt878-compatible chip; newer versions use a different
>chips that si not yet supported by v4l. Audio requires using a jumper to a
>sound card; btaudio does NOT work.

Is btaudio the part that deals with audio capture via the tv card itself?
I'm using an external video source (set-top box) so I've plugged the video
into the tv card but I'm capturing the audio via my sound-card. This may
worth mentioning regarding cards that don't support btaudio.

I suppose this might not be relevant in a "compatible-cards" FAQ but it at
least gives an option to people who realise that their old tv card isn't
fully compatible but are using an external video source.

--

Neil Trodden

mikegrb at yahoo

Jun 24, 2003, 4:17 PM

Post #4 of 33 (3928 views)
Permalink

Re: DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section) [In reply to]

> Is btaudio the part that deals with audio capture via the tv card
> itself?
> I'm using an external video source (set-top box) so I've plugged
> the video
> into the tv card but I'm capturing the audio via my sound-card.
> This may
> worth mentioning regarding cards that don't support btaudio.

btaudio is the ability to capture the audio stream through the tuner
card, without using the soundcard. Very useful for multi-tuner
systems. Without btaudio you can still use an external input and
the tuner card will pass the external audio through to it's audio
output, which plugs into the sound card (such as in your situation).

Michael

webmaster at cmtweb

Jun 24, 2003, 4:38 PM

Post #5 of 33 (3913 views)
Permalink

Re: DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section) (multiple sound cards) [In reply to]

Something I've been meaning to ask...if I don't have tv tuner cards that
support btaudio, can I just get two sound cards? I briefly saw something
about this (relating to a flag if you have multiple sound cards--but it
doesnt specifically say you can use multiple sound cards with mythTV)

Anyone doing this?

-Dane

GameGod at sympatico

Jun 24, 2003, 4:40 PM

Post #6 of 33 (3928 views)
Permalink

Re: DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section) [In reply to]

You might also want to add that GeForce 2 MX cards work great for TV-Out, as
well as GeForce 4 Ti cards (I have tested both.)
Has anyone used a GeForce 4 MX card?
I would assume they work excellent as well.

...and while I'm at it:
- ONLY newer SB Live 128 cards work (ES1371). ES1370-based SB Live 128s do
NOT support full-duplex. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. (This will
save people a lot of time.)
- Audigy cards/SB Live/Value cards work awesome!

This is a really good idea. :)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Olszewski" <ray [at] comarre>
To: "Discussion about mythtv" <mythtv-users [at] snowman>
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 6:05 PM
Subject: [mythtv-users] DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section)

> I though ti might be useful to gather in one convenient place the
> information we have about what capture cards do and do not work with Myth.
> What follows is most likely NOT ACCURATE; it represents my best guesses
> based on searching through the myth-users list and sometimes trying to
make
> sense of ambiguous messages and to resolve disagreements. If people would
> read it and post corrections, including information about cards not
> mentioned, I will revise it, then send it to Robert for possible inclusion
> in the HowTo. (I don't know how to submit proposed additions to the FAQ;
> can someone tell me?)
>
> You will note that for most cards, I found no information as to whether
> they work with btaudio. If people could add thay information, it would be
a
> good part of a FAQ.
>
> Once more: people should NOT RELY on the information below. It is a DRAFT,
> posted here so people who use the various cards can correct errors.
> Personally, the only 3 cards I've worked with are older WInTV Go cards
> (successful), AverTV PVR cards (some successful, others not), and an ATI
> AIW7500 (unsuccessful).
>
> -----------------DRAFT begins--------------------
>
> Q. What video capture cards work with MythTV?
>
> A. As a general matter, any capture card that works with the video4linux
> (v4l) extensions to the Linux kernel will work with MythTV. Any video card
> can provide audio through a patch cable to a sound card's Line-In jack;
> some allow you to record sound directly, for example by use of the btaudio
> driver.
>
> No one individual can personally identify all the cards that do and do not
> work with MythTV. The following card list is based on reports that appear
> on the myth-users mailing list. It is current as of late June 2003. From
> time to time, we will try to update the information here based on reports
> to the list, but for the most current information, search the list's
recent
> archives.
>
> The Linux kernel source includes, in
> ./Documentation/video4linux/bttv/CARDLIST, a list of the cards believed to
> work with the bttv kernel driver. More information about bttv can be found
> at http://bytesex.org/bttv/ .
>
> Newer capture cards use the experimental IVTV driver, not included as part
> of standard 2.4.x kernel sources. More information about IVTV can be found
> at http://ivtv.sourceforge.net/ .
>
> If a card is not mentioned below, then there are no recent reports about
it
> on the myth-users list.
>
> ATI All-In-Wonder 7500. Video capture does NOT work under Linux (We know
> there are reports around saying it does work; we have seen them too. We
> cannot confirm any of these reports. Please send us a correction for this
> entry ONLY if you personally have this card working and will take the time
> to tell us how you did it.)
>
> ATI All-In-Wonder 8500. Video capture does NOT work under Linux. (We
know
> there are reports around saying it does work; we have seen them too. We
> cannot confirm any of these reports. Please send us a correction for this
> entry ONLY if you personally have this card working and will take the time
> to tell us how you did it.)
>
> ATI Wonder VE. Video capture works using the bttv kernel driver.There are
> some reports that bttv autodetects the wrong card type or tuner type, so
> check the CARDLIST documentation if you have problems there. Audio ??
>
>
> AverTV Desktop TV PVR. Video capture works using the bttv kernel driver,
> though there are some reports of unreliability for an older version of
this
> card (the one with the Sony daughterboard). Audio requires using a jumper
> to a sound card; btaudio does NOT work.
>
> AverTV Studio. Video capture works using the bttv kernel driver. Audio ??
> There are reports of problems getting audio to select the proper audio
> source (main versus SAP).
>
>
> Hauppauge WinTV Go. Video capture works with older versions of this
card,
> which uses a bt878-compatible chip; newer versions use a different chips
> that si not yet supported by v4l. Audio requires using a jumper to a sound
> card; btaudio does NOT work.
>
> Hauppauge WinTV dbx TV/FM Radio. Video capture works using the bttv kernel
> driver; we beliece this is the only Hauppauge card currently shipping that
> works with bttv. Audio does work with btaudio.
>
> Hauppauge WinTV HDTV. Video capture does NOT work under Linux.
>
> Hauppauge Win PVR 250. Video capture works using the IVTV kernel driver.
> Audio ??
>
> Hauppauge WIn PVR 350. Video capture works using the IVTV kernel driver.
> Audio ??
>
>
> Matrox G200 TV. VIdeo capture probably works with this card, though
reports
> on the lista re not completely clear. Audio ??
>
>
> Pinnacle PCTV. Video capture works with some versions of this card; there
> are reports that newer versions have a tuner that is not supported by
> v4l.Audio requires using a jumper to a sound card; btaudio does NOT work.
>
>
> -----------------DRAFT ends----------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] snowman
> http://lists.snowman.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

whitem at arts

Jun 24, 2003, 4:53 PM

Post #7 of 33 (3922 views)
Permalink

Re: DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section) [In reply to]

On June 24, 2003 05:40 pm, Albert Santoni wrote:
> You might also want to add that GeForce 2 MX cards work great for TV-Out,
> as well as GeForce 4 Ti cards (I have tested both.)
> Has anyone used a GeForce 4 MX card?
> I would assume they work excellent as well.

I'm currently using a GeForce4 MX 420, and it works great for TV out.
Until the latest drivers, the overscan adjustment didn't work, but it now
does.

--
Matt White whitem [at] arts
Arts and Science Computer Labs University of Saskatchewan

It sure is Monday... Ain't it a sin
I've gotta work my way thru the week again.
- Mark Chesnutt..."Sure Is Monday"

cannon.trodder at ntlworld

Jun 24, 2003, 4:56 PM

Post #8 of 33 (3919 views)
Permalink

Re: DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section) (multiple sound cards) [In reply to]

>Something I've been meaning to ask...if I don't have tv tuner cards that
>support btaudio, can I just get two sound cards? I briefly saw something
>about this (relating to a flag if you have multiple sound cards--but it
>doesnt specifically say you can use multiple sound cards with mythTV)
>
>Anyone doing this?
>
>-Dane

As long as each is configured to a device then you just enter the relevant
device name in myth's capture card config menu. You only need one
sound card per capture card though. Your sound card must support
full-duplex I believe.

--

Neil Trodden

ywwg at usa

Jun 24, 2003, 5:26 PM

Post #9 of 33 (3914 views)
Permalink

re: DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section) [In reply to]

I would point out in the FAQ that it is OK to buy a mono-only card. I
spent a lot of time avoiding the ATI TV wonder VE because it doesn't
support stereo sound. I didn't know that I could just use the line
input on my sound card and use the capture card for video only. This
might seem obvious, but I didn't consider it at the time.

owen

dlou99 at yahoo

Jun 24, 2003, 5:42 PM

Post #10 of 33 (3933 views)
Permalink

Re: DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section) [In reply to]

If you're compiling the list, I've got a few items
to suggest.

It seems that the docs get ignored by people
still in the consideration phase, probably
because they think that the HOWTO primarily consists
of installation instructions (i.e. targetted towards
those who have already green-lighted the project).
Therefore, a pre-installation FAQ might be good.

With that in mind:

Q. Can I run MythTV on my Tivo?

A. Nope. No X11R6 for Tivo.

Q. Can I use the TV-out on the PVR-350?

A. Nope. Go ask why not over at http://ivtv.sf.net

Q. Why doesn't anyone sell pre-made MythTV boxes?

A. Been considered. No business model.

Q. Can I view .NUV files in Windows?

A. If using PVR-250/350, yes; rename .NUV to .MPG
Otherwise, no. Not yet, anyway.

Q. What's the easiest way to install MythTV? What's
the best Linux distro to use? What's the best
hardware to use?

A. Visit http://pvrhw.goldfish.org click on
"Install Guides" and "View Database" and see
who experienced the least pain.

Q. Do I really need LIRC to use an IR remote?

A. No. Get an IR wireless keyboard and train a
universal learning remote on that.

Q. Why doesn't MythTV play DVD/VCD discs?

A. It will if you edit the .XML menus (even a non-
programmer can do it)

-Dennis

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

mcpcs at ivwnet

Jun 24, 2003, 5:45 PM

Post #11 of 33 (3917 views)
Permalink

Re:DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section) [In reply to]

Actually I have an (older) WinTV dbx TV/FM Radio that does NOT work with
btaudio. This is a bona-fide bt878, but w/o MSP34xx, and has a tda9450
or something like that...

rev 11 works with btaudio, rev 02 apparently does not...

lspci:
00:09.0 Multimedia video controller: Brooktree Corporation Bt878 Video
Capture (rev 02)
00:09.0 Multimedia video controller: Brooktree Corporation Bt878 Video
Capture (rev 02)

-------------------------------------------------------------
Ray Olszewski wrote:

Hauppauge WinTV dbx TV/FM Radio. Video capture works using the bttv
kernel driver; we beliece this is the only Hauppauge card currently
shipping that works with bttv. Audio does work with btaudio.

ray at comarre

Jun 24, 2003, 6:05 PM

Post #12 of 33 (3913 views)
Permalink

Re: Re:DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section) [In reply to]

Thanks for the feedback so far. Perhaps I can take a minute to clarify what
am I doing, inorder to get more focused feedback.

Dennis -- Sorry, but I am not compiling a list. I am just trying to draft
an answer to a single FAQ, not revise the entire list of FAQs. In fact, I
do not even know how to submit a proposed FAQ; I'm just another guy on the
list. I think most of your Q&As are good suggestions, though the answers
are a bit terse for my taste, so I hope whoever does maintain the FAQ list
picks up your suggestions (and expands on the answers).

Albert -- This proposed FAQ (or HowTo section) is about getting a TV signal
in, not about getting video out to a TV. I sent Robert some suggested
updates to the TV-out section of the HowTo a couple of weeks ago, and I'd
assumed he had incorporated tham (but I never actually checked). You might
want to have a look and, if you see any shortcomings, suggest improvements
directly to RObert. Similarly, a FAQ, about or a better HowTo discussion
of, sound cards is probably a good idea ... but it is not *this* FAQ.

Mark, Michael -- Thanks; this is the kind of feedback I need to get the
draft into a state where it is reasonably accurate, close enough to
authoritative that I will feel comfortable submitting it to Robert or
whomever.

Everyone else -- Please see if I discuss the cap card you are using. If
yes, and there are any important error or omissions, please reply with
corrections or additions. If no, please reply with info about your card.

Robert, somebody -- WHen I get this in shape, would it go better as a FAQ
or as part of the HowTo? If the first, how do I submit it? (I already know
how to send HowTo suggestions to Robert.)

When I was searching the list archives to find the info for the draft, I
was struck by how difficult it is to search for info on a particular cap
card. I probably missed relevant info. That's why I think newcomers would
really benefit from having this partocular set of info all in one place. If
it works, I may try others, but for now, I'd just like to get this one
right, not bite off more than I can chew.

jasonml at iconimaging

Jun 24, 2003, 7:14 PM

Post #13 of 33 (3896 views)
Permalink

Re: DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section) [In reply to]

If you want to include this in the fact, for a ATI tvwonder/ve card
to detect the right tuner for NTSC (instead of the default tuner=19
it grabs) here's my modules.conf.

alias char-major-81 bttv
options bttv card=1 autoload=0 radio=0
post-install bttv insmod tuner type=2

oh and I dont know if this has been mentioned in the faq, but to
run a frontend only system you need to edit /usr/local/share/mythtv/mysql.txt
and put in the ip of your backend for the mysql server to connect too...

-Jason

jasonml at iconimaging

Jun 24, 2003, 7:22 PM

Post #14 of 33 (3923 views)
Permalink

Re: DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section) [In reply to]

On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:53:43 -0600
Matt White <whitem [at] arts> wrote:

> I'm currently using a GeForce4 MX 420, and it works great for TV out.
> Until the latest drivers, the overscan adjustment didn't work, but it now
> does.

Is that the AGP or PCI model?

-Jason

whitem at arts

Jun 24, 2003, 7:45 PM

Post #15 of 33 (3911 views)
Permalink

Re: DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section) [In reply to]

On June 24, 2003 08:22 pm, Jason Radford wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:53:43 -0600
>
> Matt White <whitem [at] arts> wrote:
> > I'm currently using a GeForce4 MX 420, and it works great for TV out.
> > Until the latest drivers, the overscan adjustment didn't work, but it now
> > does.
>
> Is that the AGP or PCI model?

It's an AGP card...lspci shows:

01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation NV17 [GeForce4 MX 420]
(rev a3) (prog-if 00 [VGA])
Subsystem: Jaton Corp: Unknown device 0000
Flags: bus master, 66Mhz, medium devsel, latency 248, IRQ 11
Memory at eb000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16M]
Memory at f4000000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=64M]
Memory at f3800000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=512K]
Expansion ROM at f37e0000 [disabled] [size=128K]
Capabilities: [60] Power Management version 2
Capabilities: [44] AGP version 2.0

--
Matt White whitem [at] arts
Arts and Science Computer Labs University of Saskatchewan

It sure is Monday... Ain't it a sin
I've gotta work my way thru the week again.
- Mark Chesnutt..."Sure Is Monday"

gbritton at doomcom

Jun 24, 2003, 8:34 PM

Post #16 of 33 (3932 views)
Permalink

Re: Re:DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section) [In reply to]

On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 05:45:46PM -0700, Mark Chou wrote:
> Actually I have an (older) WinTV dbx TV/FM Radio that does NOT work with
> btaudio. This is a bona-fide bt878, but w/o MSP34xx, and has a tda9450
> or something like that...
>
> rev 11 works with btaudio, rev 02 apparently does not...

It all depends on how they've routed the audio outputs of the stereo
decoder chip. Some of them route these signals to the bt8x8 chip, some
only route the outputs to the audio jumper cable. You cannot simply tell
by the bt8x8 revision whether it will work. You can only be sure by either
trying it to see if it works, or pouring over the signal traces on the
board. Some of them also don't properly clock the digital audio clock so
only the analog captures work properly, and often the clock is at a fixed
rate (32000 or 48000 are most common, though some might be 44100).

-- Gerald

bjm at lvcm

Jun 24, 2003, 9:38 PM

Post #17 of 33 (3930 views)
Permalink

Re: DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section) (multiple sound cards) [In reply to]

Dane Kantner wrote:
> Something I've been meaning to ask...if I don't have tv tuner cards that
> support btaudio, can I just get two sound cards? I briefly saw something
> about this (relating to a flag if you have multiple sound cards--but it
> doesnt specifically say you can use multiple sound cards with mythTV)

You need two DSPs. That could be two soundcards, one soundcard
and a capture card's DSP with btaudio, or my favorite trick, one
sound card and the on-board audio chip for its DSP only.

For example, get a motherbord with with on-board audio. It
dosen't matter if it sounds like crap, you're not going to use
it for output. Get, say, a SoundBlaster Live for all your
stereo, surrond, digital out, etc. needs and configure that
as card0. Configure the on-board as card1.

alias snd-card-0 snd-emu10k1
alias snd-card-1 snd-via82xx

# OSS/Free portion
alias char-major-14 soundcore
alias sound-slot-0 snd-card-0
alias sound-service-0-0 snd-mixer-oss
alias sound-service-0-1 snd-seq-oss
alias sound-service-0-3 snd-pcm-oss
alias sound-service-0-8 snd-seq-oss
alias sound-service-0-12 snd-pcm-oss

alias sound-slot-1 snd-card-1
alias sound-service-1-0 snd-mixer-oss
alias sound-service-1-1 snd-seq-oss
alias sound-service-1-3 snd-pcm-oss
alias sound-service-1-8 snd-seq-oss
alias sound-service-1-12 snd-pcm-oss

Plug your speakers into the SB Live. Plug one tuner card patch
cable to the SB line-in and the other tuner to the motherboard
line-in. For card1 (/dev/dsp1), you only need to set CAPTUR to
line-in and turn up the volume for "Capture". Leave everything
else on card1 off since it will only be used to record /dev/dsp1.

This way you don't need to use a second PCI sound card and you
don't have to pay as much as $100 for a card that might work
with btaudio (and be stuck as a fixed sample rate and might
sound like crap ever if it does work with btaudio ;-). A $30
bttv card and an otherwise unused on-board DSP will get the
job done just fine.

-- bjm

webmaster at cmtweb

Jun 24, 2003, 10:16 PM

Post #18 of 33 (3917 views)
Permalink

Re: DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTosection) (multiple sound cards) [In reply to]

> You need two DSPs. That could be two soundcards, one soundcard
> and a capture card's DSP with btaudio, or my favorite trick, one
> sound card and the on-board audio chip for its DSP only.

Well, thanks for answering that... After reading all of the hoofla of people
trying to get btaudio working, and many having poor audio problems, I'm left
wondering why more people don't just spend another $20 on another sound
card....

My entire issue is i bought a case that takes low profile cards, and the
ones that support btaudio are limited in this arena (afaik?).. there are
plenty of low profile sound cards avail., so this would be an "easier"
solution maybe

i'm not at the point of needing two tuners yet, im just working to get one
going good still..but im trying to plan

re,
-dane

jcaputo1 at comcast

Jun 25, 2003, 7:05 AM

Post #19 of 33 (3894 views)
Permalink

RE: DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section)(multiple sound cards) [In reply to]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mythtv-users-bounces [at] snowman
> [mailto:mythtv-users-bounces [at] snowman]On Behalf Of Dane Kantner
> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 7:39 PM
> To: Discussion about mythtv
> Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo
> section)(multiple sound cards)
>
>
> Something I've been meaning to ask...if I don't have tv tuner cards that
> support btaudio, can I just get two sound cards? I briefly saw something
> about this (relating to a flag if you have multiple sound cards--but it
> doesnt specifically say you can use multiple sound cards with mythTV)
>
> Anyone doing this?

Well, I *do* have two sound cards, but I happen to be using btaudio anyway.
However, in theory, you'd just configure mythbackend to record from one card
(the one you've connect to the line-out of your tuner card, say, /dev/dsp0)
and configure mythfrontend/mythmusic to output to the other (the one
connected to your TV/amplifier's audio-in, say, /dev/dsp1). Should work
just fine, I think.

-JAC

jcaputo1 at comcast

Jun 25, 2003, 7:07 AM

Post #20 of 33 (3907 views)
Permalink

RE: re: DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section) [In reply to]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mythtv-users-bounces [at] snowman
> [mailto:mythtv-users-bounces [at] snowman]On Behalf Of Owen Williams
> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 8:26 PM
> To: mythtv-users [at] snowman
> Subject: [mythtv-users] re: DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section)
>
>
> I would point out in the FAQ that it is OK to buy a mono-only card. I
> spent a lot of time avoiding the ATI TV wonder VE because it doesn't
> support stereo sound. I didn't know that I could just use the line
> input on my sound card and use the capture card for video only. This
> might seem obvious, but I didn't consider it at the time.

I assume you're using an external digital cable or similar box, and running
the audio straight from there to your sound card, then? If you're using the
'tuner' aspect of the VE rather than the 'video-in', then you're only
getting whatever sound the VE supports.

-JAC

ray at comarre

Jun 25, 2003, 10:14 AM

Post #21 of 33 (3935 views)
Permalink

Re: DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section) [In reply to]

Here is an updated DRAFT, based on the little substantive feedback I
received here plus a more thorough (but probably still incomplete) seach of
the mythtv-users mailing list for 2003.

Comments, anyone?

Isaac, Robert -- how would you like me to submit this for inclusion
somewhere? (I'm still not sure if this would be better as part of the HowTo
or as a separate FAQ. I would probably find it easier to maintain as a FAQ
entry.)

----------------DRAFT BEGINS--------------------------

Q. What video capture cards work with MythTV?
(Last updated: June 25, 2003)

A. As a general matter, any capture card that works with the video4linux
(v4l) extensions to the Linux kernel will work with MythTV. Any video card
can provide audio through a patch cable to a sound card's Line-In jack;
some allow you to record sound directly, for example by use of the btaudio
driver.

No one individual can personally identify all the cards that do and do not
work with MythTV. The following card list is based on reports that appear
on the myth-users mailing list. It is current as of June 25, 2003. From
time to time, we will try to update the information here based on reports
to the list, but for the most current information, search the list's recent
archives.

The Linux kernel source includes, in
./Documentation/video4linux/bttv/CARDLIST, a list of the cards believed to
work with the bttv kernel driver. More information about bttv can be found
at http://bytesex.org/bttv/ .

Newer capture cards use the experimental IVTV driver, not included as part
of standard 2.4.x kernel sources. More information about IVTV can be found
at http://ivtv.sourceforge.net/ .

If a card is not mentioned below, then there are no recent (2003) reports
about it on the myth-users list.

ATI All-In-Wonder 7500. Video capture does NOT work under Linux (We know
there are reports around saying it does work; we have seen them too. We
cannot confirm any of these reports. Please send us a correction for this
entry ONLY if you personally have this card working with MythTV and will
take the time to tell us how you did it.)

ATI All-In-Wonder 8500. Video capture does NOT work under Linux. (We know
there are reports around saying it does work; we have seen them too. We
cannot confirm any of these reports. Please send us a correction for this
entry ONLY if you personally have this card working with MythTV and will
take the time to tell us how you did it.)

ATI TV Wonder [not VE]. Video capture works using the bttv kernel
driver. Audio does work with btaudio.

ATI TV Wonder VE. Video capture works using the bttv kernel driver.There
are some reports that bttv autodetects the wrong tuner type for the NTSC
version (it autodetects tuner=19, but the setting needs to be tuner=2), so
check the CARDLIST documentation if you have problems there. Audio requires
using a jumper to a sound card; btaudio does NOT work.

AverTV Desktop TV PVR. Video capture works using the bttv kernel driver,
though there are some reports of unreliability for an older version of this
card (the one with the Sony daughterboard). Audio requires using a jumper
to a sound card; btaudio does NOT work.

AverTV Studio. Video capture works using the bttv kernel driver. Audio is
reported to work "badly" with btaudio ("Analog DSP - output, but has a
whiney noise to it that *almost* goes away at 32 KHz"). There are reports
of problems getting audio to select the proper audio source (main versus SAP).

Hauppauge WinTV Go. Video capture works with older versions of this card,
which uses a bt878-compatible chip; newer versions use a different chip
(CX21881) that is not yet supported by v4l. Audio requires using a jumper
to a sound card; btaudio does NOT work.

Hauppauge WinTV dbx TV/FM Radio. Video capture works using the bttv kernel
driver; we believe this is the only Hauppauge card currently shipping that
works with bttv. Reports about audio are mixed; seemingly, the latest
version of this card does work with btaudio, but some older version does
not work with btaudio.

Hauppauge WinTV HDTV. Video capture does NOT work under Linux.

Hauppauge Win PVR 250. Video capture works using the IVTV kernel driver.
Audio: no information.

Hauppauge Win PVR 350. Video capture works using the IVTV kernel driver.
Audio: no information.

Hauppauge WinTV-Nexus-s. This card does not yet work with MythTV, but Isaac
reports (on June 25): "Almost. It's being worked on. Help coding/testing
would be appreciated". Audio: no information.

Hercules Smart TV Stereo. Mentioned on the myth-users list as a bttv card,
but no actual reports about its usability with Linux or MythTV.

Kworld TV878RF-PRO TV card. Mentioned on the myth-users list as a bttv
card, but no actual reports about its usability with Linux or MythTV.

Leadtek Winfast 2000 XP TV. Video capture works with this card, which uses
a bt878-compatible chip. Audio requires using a jumper to a sound card;
btaudio does NOT work.

Matrox G200 TV. Video capture probably works with this card, though reports
on the lista re not completely clear. Audio: no information.

Phoebe Micro. Video capture works with this card, which uses a bt878 chip.
The bttv driver does not autodetect it properly, so you need to provide
bttv with the relevant settings. They are card=22, tuner=21 .Audio: no
information.

Pinnacle PCTV Rave. Video capture works with older versions of this card;
there are reports that newer versions have a tuner that is not supported by
V4L. Audio requires using a jumper to a sound card; btaudio does NOT work.

Pinnacle PCTV Pro. Video capture works using the bttv kernel driver. Audio
requires using a jumper to a sound card; btaudio does NOT work.

PixelView Play TV Pro. Mentioned on the myth-users list as a bttv card, but
no actual reports about its usability with Linux or MythTV.

PixelView Play TV PVR. Video capture does NOT work under Linux. It uses a
Conexant CX23883 chipset, which is not currently supported by V4L.

Terracom Cinergy 400. Video capture works using the SAA7134 driver. Audio:
no information.

----------------DRAFT ENDS-----------------------------

mikegrb at yahoo

Jun 25, 2003, 10:56 AM

Post #22 of 33 (3926 views)
Permalink

Re: DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section) [In reply to]

--- Ray Olszewski <ray [at] comarre> wrote:
> Here is an updated DRAFT, based on the little substantive feedback
<snip>
> Hauppauge Win PVR 250. Video capture works using the IVTV kernel
> driver.
> Audio: no information.
>
> Hauppauge Win PVR 350. Video capture works using the IVTV kernel
> driver.
> Audio: no information.

Since the 250 encodes the video in the hardware, the audio is
encoded in the mpeg stream there. This is why you can cat the video
device to a file and play back the file with audio. I don't see why
the 350 would be different but couldn't tell you for sure.

bjm at lvcm

Jun 25, 2003, 12:56 PM

Post #23 of 33 (3897 views)
Permalink

Re: re: DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section) [In reply to]

Joseph A. Caputo wrote:
...
> I assume you're using an external digital cable or similar box, and running
> the audio straight from there to your sound card, then? If you're using the
> 'tuner' aspect of the VE rather than the 'video-in', then you're only
> getting whatever sound the VE supports.

I never really bought into this mono vs stereo thing. The
TV audio analog signal includes whatever the station is
broadcasting. Some stations/shows have two channel stereo.
Some station/channels use Dolby ProLogic to encode surround
information into the two audio tracks.

If you use the patch cord from the audio out of the capture
card to line-in of a soundcard, the audio out seems to be
a simple analog connection over a stereo mini phono jack.
I've never seem a card come with a mono phono jack patch
cable. The soundcard then digitizes the audio tracks. If
you're soundcard/receiver/speakers handle ProLogic, you
get surround sound.

Now, some *boxes* may say that the card has dbx-stereo. This
is because they have a stereo DSP chip on the card. If you
can get btaudio to work, it would record stereo including
the surround encoding. Boxes for cards that don't include
a DSP are not marked as stereo (and are therefore preceived
as being mono?).

I've never paid $90-$100 to get a capture card with a DSP
that only works at a fixed sample rate and that I can't
upgrade if I don't like the sound. Instead, I've bought a
variety of $30 (mono ;-) cards from AVerMedia and Hauppauge
all of which have a stereo mini phono jack patch and all of
them seem to pass through both tracks just fine to allow
record and playback of stereo and surround sound.

However, if there are any cards that put a mono signal over
both lines on the patch cord, that would be worth knowing.

-- bjm

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] snowman
http://lists.snowman.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

gbritton at doomcom

Jun 25, 2003, 1:08 PM

Post #24 of 33 (3906 views)
Permalink

Re: DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section) [In reply to]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 10:14:04AM -0700, Ray Olszewski wrote:
> Q. What video capture cards work with MythTV?
> (Last updated: June 25, 2003)
>
> A. As a general matter, any capture card that works with the video4linux
> (v4l) extensions to the Linux kernel will work with MythTV. Any video card
> can provide audio through a patch cable to a sound card's Line-In jack;
> some allow you to record sound directly, for example by use of the btaudio
> driver.

I would probably edit this to read more like:

A. As a general matter, any capture card that works with the video4linux
(v4l) extensions to the Linux kernel will work with MythTV.

Most video capture cards available use the bttv driver (so named because
the original manufacturer of the capture chip was brooktree) which provides
the video part of the capture. This driver is included in the standard
linux kernel, updated versions may be available here:
http://bytesex.org/bttv/ The audio is captured separately from the video
with this hardware. Most of these cards provide an audio-out jack for
connection to a sound card's line-in jack via a patch cable (some also
provide a header on the board for connecting to an internal port on the
sound card, in the same way as CD-ROM drives do). Some cards provide
digital audio along with the capture and the btaudio driver provides a
sound device for this stream to be read.

Other capture devices provide hardware encoded MPEG streams of the captured
video and audio. In this case, a separate audio capture device is not
required. There are not many MPEG encoder cards which work with linux,
some of them are supported by the ivtv driver at http://ivtv.sourceforge.net

> No one individual can personally identify all the cards that do and do not

[snip]

> Hauppauge WinTV Go. Video capture works with older versions of this card,
> which uses a bt878-compatible chip; newer versions use a different chip
> (CX21881) that is not yet supported by v4l. Audio requires using a jumper
> to a sound card; btaudio does NOT work.

A driver does exist for the cx88 chips, but i don't think it's ready for
production use. http://bytesex.org/cx88/

> Hauppauge WinTV dbx TV/FM Radio. Video capture works using the bttv kernel
> driver; we believe this is the only Hauppauge card currently shipping that
> works with bttv. Reports about audio are mixed; seemingly, the latest
> version of this card does work with btaudio, but some older version does
> not work with btaudio.
>
> Hauppauge WinTV HDTV. Video capture does NOT work under Linux.

It's worth noting here that the "Hauppauge Win PVR" card is NOT supported
by any working drivers. There has been some development done here:
http://pvr.sourceforge.net/, and here: http://bytesex.org/snapshot/, but
neither is at a working point.

> Hauppauge Win PVR 250. Video capture works using the IVTV kernel driver.
> Audio: no information.
>
> Hauppauge Win PVR 350. Video capture works using the IVTV kernel driver.
> Audio: no information.

Audio for both of these is provided in the MPEG stream and does not require
any additional sound device for capture.

> Hauppauge WinTV-Nexus-s. This card does not yet work with MythTV, but Isaac
> reports (on June 25): "Almost. It's being worked on. Help coding/testing
> would be appreciated". Audio: no information.

[snip]

-- Gerald

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] snowman
http://lists.snowman.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

gbritton at doomcom

Jun 25, 2003, 1:30 PM

Post #25 of 33 (3927 views)
Permalink

Re: re: DRAFT of proposed new FAQ (or HowTo section) [In reply to]

On Wed, Jun 25, 2003 at 12:56:14PM -0700, Bruce Markey wrote:
> I never really bought into this mono vs stereo thing. The
> TV audio analog signal includes whatever the station is
> broadcasting. Some stations/shows have two channel stereo.
> Some station/channels use Dolby ProLogic to encode surround
> information into the two audio tracks.

Remember though.. TV audio is backward compatible, it's a mono signal with
the stereo overlaid ontop of that.

> If you use the patch cord from the audio out of the capture
> card to line-in of a soundcard, the audio out seems to be
> a simple analog connection over a stereo mini phono jack.
> I've never seem a card come with a mono phono jack patch
> cable. The soundcard then digitizes the audio tracks. If
> you're soundcard/receiver/speakers handle ProLogic, you
> get surround sound.

I have a tv capture card with a mono sound jack, they do exist.

> Now, some *boxes* may say that the card has dbx-stereo. This
> is because they have a stereo DSP chip on the card. If you
> can get btaudio to work, it would record stereo including
> the surround encoding. Boxes for cards that don't include
> a DSP are not marked as stereo (and are therefore preceived
> as being mono?).

Ones that advertise stereo have stereo tv audio decoders in them,
the mono cards are only capable of grabbing the mono broadcast
audio out of the air even if they might have a stereo minijack and
send the output to both channels.

-- Gerald

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mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] snowman
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