Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

Re: 1 CableDigital Lineup available to chose but need 2 sources from it

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darfsten at hotmail

Oct 16, 2007, 6:42 AM

Post #1 of 16 (808 views)
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Re: 1 CableDigital Lineup available to chose but need 2 sources from it

i have 1 lineup feeding data to 2 different sources, both are
cable but one
is SD and the other is HD.
Basically create 1 lineup with all the channels you can get.
Then attack all the sources to your analog card and run
mythfilldatabase.
Once all the sources have all the channels go back and delete
the channels
that each source cannot receive.
Then open the settings in your front end and add
--remove-new-channels as
the arguments to use when running mythfilldatabase.

Obviously this will not work if one of your sources is cable,
another is
OTA, and another is DirectTV. This only works if you have
multiple tuners
that can only receive specific channels from the same source
type.

Ok, but where do I delete channels that each source can't recieve? I know
there's a channel editor in mythweb, is that where? Also, why does the
caching support wiki talk about removing channels from my SD lineup in
between assigning sources etc etc. I couldn't get that to work hence why I
am asking.

Also, for the guy that told me I can have up to 4 lineups, well thanks for
information I already knew. If you read my statement, it involves only being
ablte to chose 1 CableDigital lineup for my area (yes I have viewed
neighboring zip codes but the channels are different), I could create
another lineup but NOT using CableDigital which is what I need! One would be
for firewire channels only and hte other would be for s-video in on my
pvr-350 which is ALL channels.

Daniel

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gull at gull

Oct 16, 2007, 9:23 AM

Post #2 of 16 (778 views)
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Re: 1 CableDigital Lineup available to chose but need 2 sources from it [In reply to]

On Oct 16, 2007, at 6:42 AM, Daniel Arfsten wrote:
> Also, for the guy that told me I can have up to 4 lineups, well
> thanks for
> information I already knew. If you read my statement, it involves
> only being
> ablte to chose 1 CableDigital lineup for my area (yes I have viewed
> neighboring zip codes but the channels are different), I could create
> another lineup but NOT using CableDigital which is what I need! One
> would be
> for firewire channels only and hte other would be for s-video in on my
> pvr-350 which is ALL channels.

IMHO this is a badly needed Schedules Direct feature -- the ability
to have two copies of the same lineup, with different channels selected.

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tom at redpepperracing

Oct 16, 2007, 10:03 AM

Post #3 of 16 (777 views)
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Re: 1 CableDigital Lineup available to chose but need 2 sources from it [In reply to]

David Brodbeck wrote:
> On Oct 16, 2007, at 6:42 AM, Daniel Arfsten wrote:
>
>> Also, for the guy that told me I can have up to 4 lineups, well
>> thanks for
>> information I already knew. If you read my statement, it involves
>> only being
>> ablte to chose 1 CableDigital lineup for my area (yes I have viewed
>> neighboring zip codes but the channels are different), I could create
>> another lineup but NOT using CableDigital which is what I need! One
>> would be
>> for firewire channels only and hte other would be for s-video in on my
>> pvr-350 which is ALL channels.
>>
>
> IMHO this is a badly needed Schedules Direct feature -- the ability
> to have two copies of the same lineup, with different channels selected.
>
I'm pretty sure it does this. I have one lineup on SD, In myth I have 4
tuners, 2 PVR-x50 cards and an HDHR with both tuners getting OTA. In
Myth I have two sources, OTA and Cable, using the single SD lineup, and
it just works. The two sources use the same lineup, but do not overlap
any channels.

Tom

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mtdean at thirdcontact

Oct 16, 2007, 10:14 AM

Post #4 of 16 (770 views)
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Re: 1 CableDigital Lineup available to chose but need 2 sources from it [In reply to]

On 10/16/2007 12:23 PM, David Brodbeck wrote:
> On Oct 16, 2007, at 6:42 AM, Daniel Arfsten wrote:
>
>> Also, for the guy that told me I can have up to 4 lineups, well
>> thanks for
>> information I already knew. If you read my statement, it involves
>> only being
>> ablte to chose 1 CableDigital lineup for my area (yes I have viewed
>> neighboring zip codes but the channels are different), I could create
>> another lineup but NOT using CableDigital which is what I need! One
>> would be
>> for firewire channels only and hte other would be for s-video in on my
>> pvr-350 which is ALL channels.
>>
> IMHO this is a badly needed Schedules Direct feature -- the ability
> to have two copies of the same lineup, with different channels selected.

Why? Since Myth now has support for using the same lineup for multiple
video sources, adding support to SD to allow multiple lineups with
different channels would be significantly less efficient than the
current approach. (If anything, Myth should provide a capability to use
one XMLTV grabber's download for multiple video sources--i.e. provide
the same capability it provides for SD users to those who don't have
access to such a great listings source. ;)

Most users who need to use the same "provider" (i.e. CableDigital) for
multiple video sources do so because some input can receive only a
subset of channels--i.e. the user has an STB that receives /all/
channels and outputs to a PVR-x50 for capture, but also connects the
cable line directly to PVR-x50's for analog-only channels and may
connect the cable line directly to QAM-capable capture cards or use STB
firewire output for unencrypted digital channels. In this situation--by
definition--any channels in the analog-only lineup and the
unencrypted-digital-only lineup would be duplicated in the all-channels
lineup. Therefore, we would waste bandwidth downloading the same
information multiple times. We would also waste TMS/SD processing
resources creating the 3 "customized" lineups rather than simply
providing one lineup (the all-channels lineup) and telling Myth to use
it for 3 video sources, where two use only a subset of the channels.

IMHO, ease of configuration isn't a good reason to be
inefficient/wasteful--especially since configuration is a one-time
process for users and has no impact on ease of use once completed. (OK,
as I'm the guy who always says, "Delete all...", configuration may occur
multiple times, but learning to configure one lineup for use with
multiple video sources is a one-time process.)

Instead, perhaps those who work through this process can document their
approach and submit patches to Robert for his (much better than the one
I did on the lists) writeup (
http://mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-24.html#ss24.4 ) of how to configure
a system to use one lineup for multiple video sources. (Patches to the
SGML are preferred, but patches to plain text or even plain text write
ups are accepted.)

(I will admit that users of SD who are using the information for
purposes other than Myth may find the capability to create multiple
lineups from a single provider useful, but, IMHO, those programs should
also create support for using one lineup for multiple "purposes".
MythTV and XMLTV both support it, so...)

Mike
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mtdean at thirdcontact

Oct 16, 2007, 10:23 AM

Post #5 of 16 (782 views)
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Re: 1 CableDigital Lineup available to chose but need 2 sources from it [In reply to]

On 10/16/2007 01:03 PM, Tom Lichti wrote:
> David Brodbeck wrote:
>
>> On Oct 16, 2007, at 6:42 AM, Daniel Arfsten wrote:
>>
>>> Also, for the guy that told me I can have up to 4 lineups, well
>>> thanks for
>>> information I already knew. If you read my statement, it involves
>>> only being
>>> ablte to chose 1 CableDigital lineup for my area (yes I have viewed
>>> neighboring zip codes but the channels are different), I could create
>>> another lineup but NOT using CableDigital which is what I need! One
>>> would be
>>> for firewire channels only and hte other would be for s-video in on my
>>> pvr-350 which is ALL channels.
>>>
>> IMHO this is a badly needed Schedules Direct feature -- the ability
>> to have two copies of the same lineup, with different channels selected.
>>
> I'm pretty sure it does this. I have one lineup on SD, In myth I have 4
> tuners, 2 PVR-x50 cards and an HDHR with both tuners getting OTA. In
> Myth I have two sources, OTA and Cable, using the single SD lineup, and
> it just works. The two sources use the same lineup, but do not overlap
> any channels.

Ahhh. The fun of describing a complex idea in a mailing list...
Misunderstandings all around. :)

Myth supports using one lineup for multiple video sources specifically
because TMS (and, by proxy, SD) doesn't support creating multiple
lineups using the same provider.

So, no need to get upset with/scold those who misunderstand the specific
question being asked or the point being made. I would tend to think
that users--who will be most familiar with their own particular
configurations--will tend to miss the distinction as long as we have
Myth/SD/one-lineup per provider/ability to use one lineup for multiple
video sources (a.k.a. "caching support"--though caching is only the
capability that makes this ability more efficient rather than enabling it).

Mike
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gull at gull

Oct 16, 2007, 10:26 AM

Post #6 of 16 (765 views)
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Re: 1 CableDigital Lineup available to chose but need 2 sources from it [In reply to]

On Oct 16, 2007, at 10:14 AM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
> In this situation--by
> definition--any channels in the analog-only lineup and the
> unencrypted-digital-only lineup would be duplicated in the all-
> channels
> lineup. Therefore, we would waste bandwidth downloading the same
> information multiple times.

Wouldn't MythTV would cache it? I have two different lineups that
have overlapping channels, and the overlapped ones are only
downloaded once.

> Instead, perhaps those who work through this process can document
> their
> approach and submit patches to Robert for his (much better than the
> one
> I did on the lists) writeup (
> http://mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-24.html#ss24.4 ) of how to
> configure
> a system to use one lineup for multiple video sources.

That has always seemed like kind of a hack to me, because it means
going back and forth a couple times with Myth and the SD channel
editor and then altering how MythTV runs its updates. It just seems
clumsy and error prone.

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mtdean at thirdcontact

Oct 16, 2007, 11:50 AM

Post #7 of 16 (762 views)
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Re: 1 CableDigital Lineup available to chose but need 2 sources from it [In reply to]

On 10/16/2007 01:26 PM, David Brodbeck wrote:
> On Oct 16, 2007, at 10:14 AM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>
>> In this situation--by
>> definition--any channels in the analog-only lineup and the
>> unencrypted-digital-only lineup would be duplicated in the all-
>> channels
>> lineup. Therefore, we would waste bandwidth downloading the same
>> information multiple times.
> Wouldn't MythTV would cache it? I have two different lineups that
> have overlapping channels, and the overlapped ones are only
> downloaded once.
>

Myth downloads each SD lineup that's associated with a video source, so
if you have different SD lineups and they have the same channels, all
the redundant channels' data will be downloaded once for each lineup
that contains that channel. When we request data for a lineup, we get
the data for the /entire/ lineup--all channels--there's no way to
request download of only some of the channels' data in a lineup.
Therefore, the only time we can cache the data is if multiple video
sources use the same lineup.

To the end user, though, it may seem they're downloaded only once since
Myth doesn't report detailed information on the specifics of how things
are downloaded and since most users tend to configure their systems to
hide the fact that WOFL Fox 35 may actually be specified in 2 or more
channel( ID')s (each associated with a different video source)--i.e.
they're not duplicated in the guide--so the distinction isn't apparent
in normal usage.

>> Instead, perhaps those who work through this process can document
>> their
>> approach and submit patches to Robert for his (much better than the
>> one
>> I did on the lists) writeup (
>> http://mythtv.org/docs/mythtv-HOWTO-24.html#ss24.4 ) of how to
>> configure
>> a system to use one lineup for multiple video sources.
>>
> That has always seemed like kind of a hack to me, because it means
> going back and forth a couple times with Myth and the SD channel
> editor and then altering how MythTV runs its updates. It just seems
> clumsy and error prone.

There are other ways to do it--i.e. set up the lineup with all channels
and delete the extras from each video source--but someone needs to write
up detailed descriptions they created while actually doing the process.
Also, it may make sense to describe different approaches depending on
channel distribution (i.e. one source contains all channels and another
source contains only a subset, two different sources contain different
subsets of the provider's channels, three or more different sources use
the same lineup, etc.). This is what I'm suggesting those who have
found the approach in the HOWTO cumbersome should do--write up the most
efficient approach they found for configuring the video sources for
their systems.

I have only one lineup and only one provider (OTA), so although I could
write up the process, I have no way to test that the theory actually
works (or is actually a "usable" way of doing things). Besides, anyone
who attempted to follow my original write-up (
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/285225#285225 ) would
probably vote for finding a different author. :)

Mike
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gull at gull

Oct 16, 2007, 12:06 PM

Post #8 of 16 (766 views)
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Re: 1 CableDigital Lineup available to chose but need 2 sources from it [In reply to]

On Oct 16, 2007, at 11:50 AM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
> Myth downloads each SD lineup that's associated with a video
> source, so
> if you have different SD lineups and they have the same channels, all
> the redundant channels' data will be downloaded once for each lineup
> that contains that channel. When we request data for a lineup, we get
> the data for the /entire/ lineup--all channels--there's no way to
> request download of only some of the channels' data in a lineup.
> Therefore, the only time we can cache the data is if multiple video
> sources use the same lineup.

I must be misunderstanding something. The source of my confusion is
these log lines, which appear to show mythfilldatabase using cached
data to update my second lineup:

2007-10-08 11:14:43.858 Updating source #2 (Comcast Analog) with
grabber schedul
esdirect1
2007-10-08 11:14:43.889 Found 76 channels for source 2 which use grabber

...

2007-10-08 11:14:44.327 Refreshing data for Tue Oct 9 2007
2007-10-08 11:14:44.361 This DataDirect listings source is shared by
2 MythTV li
neups
2007-10-08 11:14:44.394 We should use cached data for this one
2007-10-08 11:14:44.452 Retrieving datadirect data.
2007-10-08 11:14:44.480 Grabbing data for Mon Oct 8 2007 offset 1
2007-10-08 11:14:44.510 From Tue Oct 9 07:00:00 2007 to Wed Oct 10
07:00:00 2007
(UTC)
2007-10-08 11:14:44.544 Grabbing listing data
2007-10-08 11:14:44.577 DataDirect: Copying from DD cache
2007-10-08 11:14:46.252 DataDirect: Your subscription expires on
06/19/08 22:54:

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mtdean at thirdcontact

Oct 16, 2007, 12:35 PM

Post #9 of 16 (766 views)
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Re: 1 CableDigital Lineup available to chose but need 2 sources from it [In reply to]

On 10/16/2007 03:06 PM, David Brodbeck wrote:
> On Oct 16, 2007, at 11:50 AM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>
>> Myth downloads each SD lineup that's associated with a video
>> source, so
>> if you have different SD lineups and they have the same channels, all
>> the redundant channels' data will be downloaded once for each lineup
>> that contains that channel. When we request data for a lineup, we get
>> the data for the /entire/ lineup--all channels--there's no way to
>> request download of only some of the channels' data in a lineup.
>> Therefore, the only time we can cache the data is if multiple video
>> sources use the same lineup.
> I must be misunderstanding something.

Yep. ;)

> The source of my confusion is
> these log lines, which appear to show mythfilldatabase using cached
> data to update my second lineup:
>
> 2007-10-08 11:14:43.858 Updating source #2 (Comcast Analog) with
> grabber schedul
> esdirect1
> 2007-10-08 11:14:43.889 Found 76 channels for source 2 which use grabber
>
> ...
>
> 2007-10-08 11:14:44.327 Refreshing data for Tue Oct 9 2007
> 2007-10-08 11:14:44.361 This DataDirect listings source is shared by
> 2 MythTV li
> neups
> 2007-10-08 11:14:44.394 We should use cached data for this one

You're missing the distinction between a lineup and a video source. A
lineup exists at Schedules Direct/TMS. A video source exists within
MythTV and can be set up to use an SD lineup (and, now, with 0.20.2 and
higher, multiple video sources can be configured to use the same SD lineup).

Your original statement (brought back from a previous post):

On 10/16/2007 01:26 PM, David Brodbeck wrote:

> I have two different lineups that
> have overlapping channels, and the overlapped ones are only
> downloaded once.

Should have been:

I have two different video sources that have overlapping channels, so I
configured them to share the same SD lineup so the channels are only
downloaded once.

Previously, I've said (in slightly different words): Each lineup that's
used by any video source is downloaded once. The only way to cache the
data is if multiple video sources use the same lineup.

So, keeping that in mind, we can see that in your case, you have things
set up correctly to maximize efficiency (and to allow multiple video
sources to use the same listings provider)--so you are getting the
benefit of caching. However, using proper terminology, you only have
one lineup, but have two video sources using that one lineup.

It seems about 90% of the posts in this thread are due to
misunderstanding/misreading of these distinctions and the SD
requirements for creating multiple lineups, so many are having trouble
putting all the pieces together. :)

Mike
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gull at gull

Oct 16, 2007, 1:00 PM

Post #10 of 16 (776 views)
Permalink

Re: 1 CableDigital Lineup available to chose but need 2 sources from it [In reply to]

On Oct 16, 2007, at 12:35 PM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
> You're missing the distinction between a lineup and a video source. A
> lineup exists at Schedules Direct/TMS.

Right. And when I go to the Schedules Direct webpage, I have two
lineups listed -- one for each of my video sources.

> Your original statement (brought back from a previous post):
>
> On 10/16/2007 01:26 PM, David Brodbeck wrote:
>
>> I have two different lineups that
>> have overlapping channels, and the overlapped ones are only
>> downloaded once.
>
> Should have been:
>
> I have two different video sources that have overlapping channels,
> so I
> configured them to share the same SD lineup so the channels are only
> downloaded once.

But that's not what I did. I created two lineups and associated one
with each video source.

Cut and paste from the SD webpage:

98032 Federal Way, US Comcast Cable
98032 Federal Way, US Comcast - Digital CableDigital

So I'm still confused. I didn't follow the directions in the wiki --
I created two lineups, one for my "normal" analog tuner and one for
my digital cable STB, and then associated each with the proper tuner
and input. And MythTV automatically started caching data from the
digital lineup to feed the analog one.

I feel like maybe we're arguing semantics, here. Are you using some
definition of the word "lineup" that's different from what the SD
webpage and mythfilldatabase are using?

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mtdean at thirdcontact

Oct 16, 2007, 2:29 PM

Post #11 of 16 (761 views)
Permalink

Re: 1 CableDigital Lineup available to chose but need 2 sources from it [In reply to]

On 10/16/2007 04:00 PM, David Brodbeck wrote:
> On Oct 16, 2007, at 12:35 PM, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>
>> Your original statement (brought back from a previous post):
>>
>> On 10/16/2007 01:26 PM, David Brodbeck wrote:
>>> I have two different lineups that
>>> have overlapping channels, and the overlapped ones are only
>>> downloaded once.
>>>
>> Should have been:
>>
>> I have two different video sources that have overlapping channels,
>> so I
>> configured them to share the same SD lineup so the channels are only
>> downloaded once.
>>
> But that's not what I did. I created two lineups and associated one
> with each video source.
>
> Cut and paste from the SD webpage:
>
> 98032 Federal Way, US Comcast Cable
> 98032 Federal Way, US Comcast - Digital CableDigital
>
>
> So I'm still confused. I didn't follow the directions in the wiki --
> I created two lineups, one for my "normal" analog tuner and one for
> my digital cable STB, and then associated each with the proper tuner
> and input. And MythTV automatically started caching data from the
> digital lineup to feed the analog one.
>
> I feel like maybe we're arguing semantics, here. Are you using some
> definition of the word "lineup" that's different from what the SD
> webpage and mythfilldatabase are using?

It turns out that the message you're seeing is a bit misleading. That
message ("This DataDirect listings source is shared by 2 MythTV
lineups") is printed out any time 2 separate video sources use SD with
the same userid and password--regardless of whether the lineupid is
identical. It seems that some of the "setup" data (i.e. cookies, lists
of lineups available, etc.--that's necessary for downloading listings
data from any/all lineups) is cached, so the message is still output.
However, the program listings data is not being cached because there's
no way to download partial lineups from SD/TMS, so doing so wouldn't be
of any benefit.

If you execute the query:

SELECT sourceid, name, lineupid FROM videosource;

You'll see that your two video sources have different lineups
(lineupid's) associated with them.

Thanks for getting me to look at the source to find out that the message
may still be output even when the program listings data isn't being
re-used. It will definitely make explaining things easier next time
there are questions. :)

Mike
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danielk at cuymedia

Oct 17, 2007, 6:41 AM

Post #12 of 16 (750 views)
Permalink

Re: 1 CableDigital Lineup available to chose but need 2 sources from it [In reply to]

On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 17:29 -0400, Michael T. Dean wrote:

> It turns out that the message you're seeing is a bit misleading. That
> message ("This DataDirect listings source is shared by 2 MythTV
> lineups") is printed out any time 2 separate video sources use SD with
> the same userid and password--regardless of whether the lineupid is
> identical. It seems that some of the "setup" data (i.e. cookies, lists
> of lineups available, etc.--that's necessary for downloading listings
> data from any/all lineups) is cached, so the message is still output.
> However, the program listings data is not being cached because there's
> no way to download partial lineups from SD/TMS, so doing so wouldn't be
> of any benefit.

Michael, as of 0.20.2 and later we download the data only once per
account per mythfilldatabase run per day of listings, so that first
download downloads data for both of David's lineups for a particular
time period. Also, using a digital and an analog lineup from the same
cable provider is no less efficient than using only the digital lineup.
Not everyone can use David's setup because QAM and firewire recordable
channels may not be in the analog lineup and some cable providers do
not even have an analog lineup anymore, but it's a perfectly valid
setup when it is possible to set things up this way.

Using multiple similar DataDirect lineups used to be very inefficient
in the labs days but we do a lot better job at caching now.

The cookie caching stuff you saw is for the frontend channel editor
and a future channel scanner/importer; neither of these work at the
moment because I'm still working on the Schedules Direct server side
of the equation for this functionality.

-- Daniel

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mtdean at thirdcontact

Oct 17, 2007, 7:03 AM

Post #13 of 16 (746 views)
Permalink

Re: 1 CableDigital Lineup available to chose but need 2 sources from it [In reply to]

On 10/17/2007 09:41 AM, Daniel Kristjansson wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 17:29 -0400, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>> It turns out that the message you're seeing is a bit misleading. That
>> message ("This DataDirect listings source is shared by 2 MythTV
>> lineups") is printed out any time 2 separate video sources use SD with
>> the same userid and password--regardless of whether the lineupid is
>> identical. It seems that some of the "setup" data (i.e. cookies, lists
>> of lineups available, etc.--that's necessary for downloading listings
>> data from any/all lineups) is cached, so the message is still output.
>> However, the program listings data is not being cached because there's
>> no way to download partial lineups from SD/TMS, so doing so wouldn't be
>> of any benefit.
> Michael, as of 0.20.2 and later we download the data only once per
> account per mythfilldatabase run per day of listings, so that first
> download downloads data for both of David's lineups for a particular
> time period.

OK. But the point is that when selecting the "same channel" on multiple
SD lineups, mythfilldatabase does not reuse the listings data downloaded
for that channel from the first lineup (
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/295993#295993 ).
Even though David has two separate lineups, and it looks like Myth is
able to pull listings for one from another, both /are/ being
downloaded--they're just both being downloaded at the same time before
the first video source is processed.

> Also, using a digital and an analog lineup from the same
> cable provider is no less efficient than using only the digital lineup.
> Not everyone can use David's setup because QAM and firewire recordable
> channels may not be in the analog lineup and some cable providers do
> not even have an analog lineup anymore, but it's a perfectly valid
> setup when it is possible to set things up this way.
>
> Using multiple similar DataDirect lineups used to be very inefficient
> in the labs days but we do a lot better job at caching now.
>

Right. I wasn't trying to say that using different lineups is
inefficient and should be avoided. I was actually trying to show why
it's more efficient to use the new "caching" ability than it would be to
get SD/TMS to allow users to create multiple lineups using the same
provider (
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/295989#295989 ).
With the current approach, we can reuse the data because we know that
all channels are pulling data from the same lineup's listings. If the
user had multiple lineups from a single provider, we would need an
ability to "partially download" a lineup's listings to be able to reuse
the listings data--otherwise, we would just have to re-download (and
TMS/SD would have to re-process) the listings for channels on multiple
lineups.

I was trying to say that we can only reuse the program listings data if
the lineup is shared by multiple video sources and that the whole reason
you added this ability to cache the data when using the same lineup for
multiple sources is efficiency.

> The cookie caching stuff you saw is for the frontend channel editor
> and a future channel scanner/importer; neither of these work at the
> moment because I'm still working on the Schedules Direct server side
> of the equation for this functionality.

Cool.

Mike
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danielk at cuymedia

Oct 18, 2007, 7:21 AM

Post #14 of 16 (746 views)
Permalink

Re: 1 CableDigital Lineup available to chose but need 2 sources from it [In reply to]

On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 10:03 -0400, Michael T. Dean wrote:
> OK. But the point is that when selecting the "same channel" on multiple
> SD lineups, mythfilldatabase does not reuse the listings data downloaded
> for that channel from the first lineup (
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/295993#295993 ).
> Even though David has two separate lineups, and it looks like Myth is
> able to pull listings for one from another, both /are/ being
> downloaded--they're just both being downloaded at the same time before
> the first video source is processed.

It depends. If they really are the same channel, i.e. with the same
station id, then the listings for the channel are only contained
once in the XML we get from TMS. If they are almost the same, i.e.
with a different station id, then the program descriptions that
are in common are only downloaded once but we do download a very
similar map of stationid+stationid->program mappings.

> > Using multiple similar DataDirect lineups used to be very inefficient
> > in the labs days but we do a lot better job at caching now.

> Right. I wasn't trying to say that using different lineups is
> inefficient and should be avoided. I was actually trying to show why
> it's more efficient to use the new "caching" ability than it would be to
> get SD/TMS to allow users to create multiple lineups using the same
> provider (
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/295989#295989 ).

This is definitely true. If you use different accounts there is no
reuse of data between the lineups.

> I was trying to say that we can only reuse the program listings data if
> the lineup is shared by multiple video sources and that the whole reason
> you added this ability to cache the data when using the same lineup for
> multiple sources is efficiency.

This is not correct. If there are two lineups in SD with the same
stationid's the TMS XML format only contains one entry for each
program listing. There are two lineup definitions in the file but
these are a trivial portion of the file. You're right about the
reason I added the caching, it was to allow the same SD lineup to
be used for multiple MythTV Video Sources efficiently+, but it also
has a great side benefit of reducing the amount of data we download
in any "multiple lineups on one account" setup.

-- Daniel

+ This could actually be done with older versions of MythTV, but it
was very inefficient to do so.

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gull at gull

Oct 18, 2007, 9:24 AM

Post #15 of 16 (754 views)
Permalink

Re: 1 CableDigital Lineup available to chose but need 2 sources from it [In reply to]

On Oct 18, 2007, at 7:21 AM, Daniel Kristjansson wrote:

> On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 10:03 -0400, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>> I was trying to say that we can only reuse the program listings
>> data if
>> the lineup is shared by multiple video sources and that the whole
>> reason
>> you added this ability to cache the data when using the same
>> lineup for
>> multiple sources is efficiency.
>
> This is not correct. If there are two lineups in SD with the same
> stationid's the TMS XML format only contains one entry for each
> program listing. There are two lineup definitions in the file but
> these are a trivial portion of the file. You're right about the
> reason I added the caching, it was to allow the same SD lineup to
> be used for multiple MythTV Video Sources efficiently+, but it also
> has a great side benefit of reducing the amount of data we download
> in any "multiple lineups on one account" setup.

Thanks, that explains the behavior I'm seeing. It didn't line up
with the explanations I'd gotten earlier in the thread, hence my
curiosity.

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mtdean at thirdcontact

Oct 18, 2007, 9:31 AM

Post #16 of 16 (730 views)
Permalink

Re: 1 CableDigital Lineup available to chose but need 2 sources from it [In reply to]

On 10/18/2007 10:21 AM, Daniel Kristjansson wrote:
> On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 10:03 -0400, Michael T. Dean wrote:
>
>> I was trying to say that we can only reuse the program listings data if
>> the lineup is shared by multiple video sources and that the whole reason
>> you added this ability to cache the data when using the same lineup for
>> multiple sources is efficiency.
>>
> This is not correct. If there are two lineups in SD with the same
> stationid's the TMS XML format only contains one entry for each
> program listing. There are two lineup definitions in the file but
> these are a trivial portion of the file. You're right about the
> reason I added the caching, it was to allow the same SD lineup to
> be used for multiple MythTV Video Sources efficiently+, but it also
> has a great side benefit of reducing the amount of data we download
> in any "multiple lineups on one account" setup.

So, it's actually possible to request multiple lineups simultaneously in
one "file"? If so, that's the part I was missing.

Mike
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