Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

1080p minimum TV size

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dfishburn.mythtv at gmail

Oct 8, 2007, 10:31 AM

Post #1 of 9 (956 views)
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1080p minimum TV size

Try searching this forum for buying TVs, very difficult since TV is
mentioned a zillion times.

I am in the market for a new TV (still using my 27" Sony).
I have been following a number of threads on advice for TVs, they are all good.

I have also read the OT: Why 1080p? thread.

I didn't really see anything that indicated a minimum TV size where
changing from 720p to 1080i to 1080p would be worth while.

In my case, I think I am looking at the 40" zone. Not that big of a
room, but huge compared to the 27" we are using now.

Given a 40" TV, can you notice a difference between the 3 resolutions?
1080p is really the new thing in the store which comes at a premium.
I am trying to figure out if it is worth while to spend the additional
bucks. If we end up saying it is not worth it since the TV is too
small to see a difference then great, I will save my money.

TIA,
Dave
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beww at beww

Oct 8, 2007, 10:44 AM

Post #2 of 9 (913 views)
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Re: 1080p minimum TV size [In reply to]

billymacdonald at gmail

Oct 8, 2007, 10:50 AM

Post #3 of 9 (925 views)
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Re: 1080p minimum TV size [In reply to]

On 10/8/07, David Fishburn <dfishburn.mythtv [at] gmail> wrote:
> Given a 40" TV, can you notice a difference between the 3 resolutions?
> 1080p is really the new thing in the store which comes at a premium.
> I am trying to figure out if it is worth while to spend the additional
> bucks. If we end up saying it is not worth it since the TV is too
> small to see a difference then great, I will save my money.
>
> TIA,
> Dave

I would suggest you review sites like avsforum.com. There will likely
be much more discussion of this topic. And you'll get every answer.
The right answer is, of course, it depends.

It really depends on how close you'll be sitting to it. I replaced my
46" 720p with a 50" 1080p (original broke), and I sit about 14 ft away
I guess. I could tell the difference. But only because in the past I
never thought the 1080i networks looked any better than the 720p
networks. Now the best NBC show is a touch better than the best ABC
show, but it's really close.

Personally, I had to make the same choice, and it was mostly driven by
ego. I didn't want to end up getting an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray down the
line and not having a 1080p display. So I vote for the 1080p or the
issue will always nag you and you'll always wonder if you made the
right choice :)

Billy
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mtdean at thirdcontact

Oct 8, 2007, 10:56 AM

Post #4 of 9 (919 views)
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Re: 1080p minimum TV size [In reply to]

On 10/08/2007 01:31 PM, David Fishburn wrote:
> Try searching this forum for buying TVs, very difficult since TV is
> mentioned a zillion times.
>
> I am in the market for a new TV (still using my 27" Sony).
> I have been following a number of threads on advice for TVs, they are all good.
>
> I have also read the OT: Why 1080p? thread.
>
> I didn't really see anything that indicated a minimum TV size where
> changing from 720p to 1080i to 1080p would be worth while.
>

http://www.carltonbale.com/2006/11/1080p-does-matter/
click on the image to see it in a more viewable size.

Note, also, that we're talking "the small part of the triangle" when you
also factor in recommended viewing distance (
http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html ,
among many others).

> In my case, I think I am looking at the 40" zone. Not that big of a
> room, but huge compared to the 27" we are using now.
>
> Given a 40" TV, can you notice a difference between the 3 resolutions?
> 1080p is really the new thing in the store which comes at a premium.
> I am trying to figure out if it is worth while to spend the additional
> bucks. If we end up saying it is not worth it since the TV is too
> small to see a difference then great, I will save my money.

IMHO, the price-premium for a 1080p set is not worth it. I have a 1080p
set. I could have saved >> $1000 by buying a 720p set had I known then
what I know now. If you do buy a new set, I disclaim all responsibility
for bad advice or buyer's remorse or whatever... It's your decision and
your responsibility. ;)

Does this mean I won't be getting a 3840x2160 TV when they become
available? No. It just means that I tend to waste a lot of money on toys.

Mike
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blwalter at gmail

Oct 8, 2007, 10:59 AM

Post #5 of 9 (934 views)
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Re: 1080p minimum TV size [In reply to]

Brian Wood wrote:
> David Fishburn wrote:
>
>> Try searching this forum for buying TVs, very difficult since TV is
>> mentioned a zillion times.
>>
>> I am in the market for a new TV (still using my 27" Sony).
>> I have been following a number of threads on advice for TVs, they are all good.
>>
>> I have also read the OT: Why 1080p? thread.
>>
>> I didn't really see anything that indicated a minimum TV size where
>> changing from 720p to 1080i to 1080p would be worth while.
>>
>> In my case, I think I am looking at the 40" zone. Not that big of a
>> room, but huge compared to the 27" we are using now.
>>
>> Given a 40" TV, can you notice a difference between the 3 resolutions?
>> 1080p is really the new thing in the store which comes at a premium.
>> I am trying to figure out if it is worth while to spend the additional
>> bucks. If we end up saying it is not worth it since the TV is too
>> small to see a difference then great, I will save my money.
>>
>
> A lot depends on what material you plan to view on the set. You will not
> see 1080p over the air or from cable any time in the near future, you
> can get that only from Blu-Ray or HDDVD right now.
>
> A lot of people don't see the difference between 1080i and 1080p, but of
> course the makers and the salespeople see the difference, in their
> profits and commission checks.
>
> beww
>
So when myth tells my that a certain network recording *is* 1080p as
opposed to 1080i, it's not?

Brian
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list-mythtv at bluecamel

Oct 8, 2007, 10:59 AM

Post #6 of 9 (939 views)
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Re: 1080p minimum TV size [In reply to]

On Mon, 8 Oct 2007 13:31:32 -0400, "David Fishburn"
<dfishburn.mythtv [at] gmail> said:
> Given a 40" TV, can you notice a difference between the 3 resolutions?
> 1080p is really the new thing in the store which comes at a premium.
> I am trying to figure out if it is worth while to spend the additional
> bucks. If we end up saying it is not worth it since the TV is too
> small to see a difference then great, I will save my money.

The general rule of thumb is that 50" and larger should be 1080i or
1080p while below that 720p is fine. This is regardless of material or
seating distance. The rule is based on pixel density vs screen size.

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mtdean at thirdcontact

Oct 8, 2007, 11:14 AM

Post #7 of 9 (932 views)
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Re: 1080p minimum TV size [In reply to]

On 10/08/2007 01:44 PM, Brian Wood wrote:
> A lot depends on what material you plan to view on the set. You will not
> see 1080p over the air or from cable any time in the near future, you
> can get that only from Blu-Ray or HDDVD right now.
>

Is that really true? ATSC provides for 18 formats (
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/what_is_ATSC.html ), including two
1080p formats. (BTW, 1080i and 1080p and 720p should be called
something more like 1080i60 or 1080p30 or 1080p24 or 720p60 or 720p24.)
I haven't looked through my recordings from channels using 1920x1080
resolution to see if they're all 1080i60 (as most seem to presume) or if
some may be 1080p30 or 1080p24. IMHO, it makes sense for a broadcaster
to use 1080p24 for movies and other 24fps content rather than telecining
to 1080i60 (less processing required for the content). And, for 30fps
progressive material--if any does exist--broadcasting at 1080i60 would
actually introduce temporal errors in the video unless there were some
way for the video to say to the decoder to just slap 2 fields together
to create a frame and display that frame at half the field rate.

If nothing else, I'd say that 1080p broadcasts do exist in the form of
24 frames/second material that's telecined to 30 frames/second (i.e. for
transmission in 1080i60). With a proper ivtc, you end up with 1080p24...

> A lot of people don't see the difference between 1080i and 1080p, but of
> course the makers and the salespeople see the difference, in their
> profits and commission checks.

Definitely true, and probably the best way to look at it.

Mike
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newbury at mandamus

Oct 8, 2007, 11:48 AM

Post #8 of 9 (930 views)
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Re: 1080p minimum TV size [In reply to]

David Fishburn wrote:
> Try searching this forum for buying TVs, very difficult since TV is
> mentioned a zillion times.
>
> I am in the market for a new TV (still using my 27" Sony).
> I have been following a number of threads on advice for TVs, they are all good.
>
> I have also read the OT: Why 1080p? thread.
>
> I didn't really see anything that indicated a minimum TV size where
> changing from 720p to 1080i to 1080p would be worth while.
>
> In my case, I think I am looking at the 40" zone. Not that big of a
> room, but huge compared to the 27" we are using now.
>
> Given a 40" TV, can you notice a difference between the 3 resolutions?
> 1080p is really the new thing in the store which comes at a premium.
> I am trying to figure out if it is worth while to spend the additional
> bucks. If we end up saying it is not worth it since the TV is too
> small to see a difference then great, I will save my money.
>

Well I recently bought and returned one LCD tv and got a different one.

Some sites will expound that you cannot see the difference between 720
and 1080 at anything less than 42". I would suggest that it really
depends upon your viewing distance.

Having gone there, I don't think that is really the tiebreaker on
choosing an LCD TV.

I ended up with an LG 37LB4D in place of the Sharp 32" which I had first
purchased.

The Sharp had very noticeable waviness in the picture if any sort of
expansion was in use. My wife likened it to there being water on the
lens. I disliked that model, not only for that reason, but also because
a) it had no VGA input;
b) it was extremely hard to change from the digital ATSC tuner (antenna)
to the analog (cable) tuner. (My wife likes to channel surf and does not
like using the mythbox Live-TV...too slow..still).
c) the S-video input was ...muddy.

I took it back. I looked at the SONY KDL37XBR4. The web-site stated that
it had 2 coax inputs, but that was wrong. It had the same multiple step
select and enter craziness for getting from one type of input to the
other. Both the Sharp and the Sony have the control pushbuttons on the
TOP of the display, which makes them very hard to see, unless you are
taller than the mounted height of the top edge.

The LG has the control buttons on the side. Very useful for testing
purposes and you can read the descriptions!
It has a VGA input (plus HDMI, of course, but no DVI)
The colours are fantastic.
The input sources include Antenna and Cable. Select with one push!.
There is a serial port for control and the reference manual sets out the
full control structure. A program which outputs the correct statements
out of the computer serial port can set/control every setting on the LCD.
Did I mention that the colours are fantastic.
It ended up costing $100 less than the Sharp, $400 less than the Sony
would have been, and is larger (37" versus 32".

We had a 29" Sony Trinitron tube box before. I sit about 10 feet from
the screen and 37" is FINE. I doubt I *could* tell the difference
between 1368x764 and 1920x1080 at this distance.

Geoff

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dfishburn.mythtv at gmail

Oct 8, 2007, 6:42 PM

Post #9 of 9 (899 views)
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Re: 1080p minimum TV size [In reply to]

On 10/8/07, Michael T. Dean <mtdean [at] thirdcontact> wrote:
> On 10/08/2007 01:31 PM, David Fishburn wrote:
[snip]
> I didn't really see anything that indicated a minimum TV size where
> > changing from 720p to 1080i to 1080p would be worth while.
> >
>
> http://www.carltonbale.com/2006/11/1080p-does-matter/
> click on the image to see it in a more viewable size.

That is great, I also checked out the Excel spreadsheet.

> > Given a 40" TV, can you notice a difference between the 3 resolutions?
> > 1080p is really the new thing in the store which comes at a premium.
> > I am trying to figure out if it is worth while to spend the additional
> > bucks. If we end up saying it is not worth it since the TV is too
> > small to see a difference then great, I will save my money.
>
> IMHO, the price-premium for a 1080p set is not worth it. I have a 1080p
> set. I could have saved >> $1000 by buying a 720p set had I known then
> what I know now. If you do buy a new set, I disclaim all responsibility
> for bad advice or buyer's remorse or whatever... It's your decision and
> your responsibility. ;)

Hmm, I might have to kick someone, I will keep you in mind just for
the heck of it.

Thanks all for the responses.

Dave
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