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Anyone have any luck running Myth in VMWare?

 

 

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memmott at gmail

Aug 5, 2007, 5:44 PM

Post #1 of 17 (2094 views)
Permalink
Anyone have any luck running Myth in VMWare?

I just installed MythDora in a VM on my Windows host. It's the latest VMWare
server with the latest VMWare tools. However, video performance isn't that
great. Myth runs, but videos are very choppy - Sound is consistent but I'm
probably not getting more than 5 frames per second. Dragging windows around
in X is a little sluggish as well.

My host system is pretty beefy - Core 2 Duo with 2GB RAM and a Radeon video
card with 256MB. I've allocated 1 CPU and 1GB ram to the VM. The VM is
currently running at 1024 x 768 in fullscreen mode. Is there anything else I
can do to improve performance, or is this just "the way it is"? Has anybody
had better results?


beww at beww

Aug 5, 2007, 5:48 PM

Post #2 of 17 (1910 views)
Permalink
Re: Anyone have any luck running Myth in VMWare? [In reply to]

On Sunday 05 August 2007 18:44, Matt Emmott wrote:
> I just installed MythDora in a VM on my Windows host. It's the latest
> VMWare server with the latest VMWare tools. However, video performance
> isn't that great. Myth runs, but videos are very choppy - Sound is
> consistent but I'm probably not getting more than 5 frames per second.
> Dragging windows around in X is a little sluggish as well.

I'd guess VMware does not give your guest OS direct access to the video
hardware, and you are getting just frame buffer performance, but that's just
a guess.

"Windows" and "MythTV" are pretty much much like oil and water, IMHO.

You could try running Linux, with Windows under VMware.

--
BEWW
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memmott at gmail

Aug 5, 2007, 6:27 PM

Post #3 of 17 (1924 views)
Permalink
Re: Anyone have any luck running Myth in VMWare? [In reply to]

On 8/5/07, Brian Wood <beww [at] beww> wrote:
>
> On Sunday 05 August 2007 18:44, Matt Emmott wrote:
> > I just installed MythDora in a VM on my Windows host. It's the latest
> > VMWare server with the latest VMWare tools. However, video performance
> > isn't that great. Myth runs, but videos are very choppy - Sound is
> > consistent but I'm probably not getting more than 5 frames per second.
> > Dragging windows around in X is a little sluggish as well.
>
> I'd guess VMware does not give your guest OS direct access to the video
> hardware, and you are getting just frame buffer performance, but that's
> just
> a guess.
>
> "Windows" and "MythTV" are pretty much much like oil and water, IMHO.
>
> You could try running Linux, with Windows under VMware.


That makes sense. This was a test run for a friend - He's building his
Windows PC that he also wants to use as a Myth FE. I wanted to test the
feasibility of running it in a VM, but I guess now it's starting to look
like it might not be possible. If anybody else has had experience I'd love
to hear about it.


gull at gull

Aug 5, 2007, 6:32 PM

Post #4 of 17 (1907 views)
Permalink
Re: Anyone have any luck running Myth in VMWare? [In reply to]

Brian Wood wrote:
> "Windows" and "MythTV" are pretty much much like oil and water, IMHO.

There's a Windows-specific frontend app, but it's more geared towards
watching in a desktop window, as opposed to viewing on a TV. It has no
fullscreen support, and last I checked it didn't do deinterlacing.
Still, for watching on your desktop it's pretty nice.

http://winmyth.sourceforge.net/

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memmott at gmail

Aug 5, 2007, 6:44 PM

Post #5 of 17 (1921 views)
Permalink
Re: Anyone have any luck running Myth in VMWare? [In reply to]

I tried that already - Doesn't work under Vista, even in XP compatibility
mode.

On 8/5/07, David Brodbeck <gull [at] gull> wrote:
>
> Brian Wood wrote:
> > "Windows" and "MythTV" are pretty much much like oil and water, IMHO.
>
> There's a Windows-specific frontend app, but it's more geared towards
> watching in a desktop window, as opposed to viewing on a TV. It has no
> fullscreen support, and last I checked it didn't do deinterlacing.
> Still, for watching on your desktop it's pretty nice.
>
> http://winmyth.sourceforge.net/
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>


gull at gull

Aug 5, 2007, 7:06 PM

Post #6 of 17 (1919 views)
Permalink
Re: Anyone have any luck running Myth in VMWare? [In reply to]

Matt Emmott wrote:
> I tried that already - Doesn't work under Vista, even in XP
> compatibility mode.

That's too bad. I suppose upgrading to XP is out of the question. ;)

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memmott at gmail

Aug 5, 2007, 7:10 PM

Post #7 of 17 (1923 views)
Permalink
Re: Anyone have any luck running Myth in VMWare? [In reply to]

I think he's actually rolling back his Vista install to a clean XP install,
so it might be an option. :)

I've installed Parallels for Windows and am installing Mythdora on top of it
now. Parallels supposedly offers direct hardware support, which my BIOS also
supports, so we'll see what happens.

On 8/5/07, David Brodbeck <gull [at] gull> wrote:
>
> Matt Emmott wrote:
> > I tried that already - Doesn't work under Vista, even in XP
> > compatibility mode.
>
> That's too bad. I suppose upgrading to XP is out of the question. ;)
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>


david.whyte at gmail

Aug 6, 2007, 1:44 AM

Post #8 of 17 (1901 views)
Permalink
Re: Anyone have any luck running Myth in VMWare? [In reply to]

On 8/6/07, Matt Emmott <memmott [at] gmail> wrote:
> I think he's actually rolling back his Vista install to a clean XP install,
> so it might be an option. :)


A couple of points:

- I had myth running in VMware just fine. Using XP host, Ubuntu 7.04
(pre-release) guest on a 2GHz laptop (old Pentium M chip, not dual
core). I made the move to linux on the laptop though so I blew the
client away, sorry!
- I don't think winmyth works with the latest version of mythTV. I
never got it to work good *ever* regardless of the mythTV version.
- There was another client called Tapeworm or something. I had some
good success with that but I have no idea where it is up to now. Try
searching the mailing list for the web page.

HTH's
Whytey
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mythtv at tedde

Aug 6, 2007, 3:39 AM

Post #9 of 17 (1893 views)
Permalink
Re: Anyone have any luck running Myth in VMWare? [In reply to]

David Whyte skrev:
> On 8/6/07, Matt Emmott <memmott [at] gmail> wrote:
>
>> I think he's actually rolling back his Vista install to a clean XP install,
>> so it might be an option. :)
>>
>
>
> A couple of points:
>
> - I had myth running in VMware just fine. Using XP host, Ubuntu 7.04
> (pre-release) guest on a 2GHz laptop (old Pentium M chip, not dual
> core). I made the move to linux on the laptop though so I blew the
> client away, sorry!
>
>

I am running a VMware frontend as a development/troubleshooting FE (my
findings regarding MuthDora/FC6 and Epia SP13000 to be put on the Wiki
Any Day Now). As the vmware-tools SVGA driver is typically better than
nothing I cant recommend it for video.

Try reducing the display size to 640x480 (on my 2GHz Pentium M that
works good enough for casual watching)
There are additional settings (some officially documented some not) that
affect 3D rendering but I am not sure if these (or other) settings in
the vmx file may help you.

Are you using wireless or wired network?
What do you get from top and other performance tools* in the VM?

Fredrik

*please note that perf tools in VMs are typically not entirely reliable
due to "non-linear time" in a VM

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gary.dawes at gmail

Aug 6, 2007, 5:08 AM

Post #10 of 17 (1897 views)
Permalink
Re: Anyone have any luck running Myth in VMWare? [In reply to]

there is a client for windows playback - mythtvplayer. it's great for
playback, runs full screen, and has configurable seeks. works great
for me with toshiba laptop ovr wireless. it does not do program
guides, or recording options, but you can use mythweb for that. btw
the dev for mythtvplayer, mikkel, is very responsive, and helpful.

gary

On 06/08/07, Fredrik Hallgarde <mythtv [at] tedde> wrote:
> David Whyte skrev:
> > On 8/6/07, Matt Emmott <memmott [at] gmail> wrote:
> >
> >> I think he's actually rolling back his Vista install to a clean XP
> install,
> >> so it might be an option. :)
> >>
> >
> >
> > A couple of points:
> >
> > - I had myth running in VMware just fine. Using XP host, Ubuntu 7.04
> > (pre-release) guest on a 2GHz laptop (old Pentium M chip, not dual
> > core). I made the move to linux on the laptop though so I blew the
> > client away, sorry!
> >
> >
>
> I am running a VMware frontend as a development/troubleshooting FE (my
> findings regarding MuthDora/FC6 and Epia SP13000 to be put on the Wiki
> Any Day Now). As the vmware-tools SVGA driver is typically better than
> nothing I cant recommend it for video.
>
> Try reducing the display size to 640x480 (on my 2GHz Pentium M that
> works good enough for casual watching)
> There are additional settings (some officially documented some not) that
> affect 3D rendering but I am not sure if these (or other) settings in
> the vmx file may help you.
>
> Are you using wireless or wired network?
> What do you get from top and other performance tools* in the VM?
>
> Fredrik
>
> *please note that perf tools in VMs are typically not entirely reliable
> due to "non-linear time" in a VM
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


jarom_mcdonald at byu

Aug 6, 2007, 8:24 AM

Post #11 of 17 (1887 views)
Permalink
Re: Anyone have any luck running Myth in VMWare? [In reply to]

The problem with Myth in the virtual machine may not be VMWare at all;
it may be Vista, which takes an enormous amount of resources. A few
things to check:
1) make sure that you have the VMWare settings to reserve the entire 1GB
of RAM for the virtual machine. This isn't the default; by default,
VMware shares all the memory, so Vista may be hogging too much of it,
causing your VM to start swapping.
2) Additionally, even if you've got a full 1GB reserved for the virtual
machine, there's also about 100 MB of overhead, so if Vista is left with
only 900MB of ram it may be doing some swapping itself, clogging up your
disk I/O. Try creating your virtual machine on a separate physical disk,
if that's possible.
3) Try it on XP, as others have suggested, which is a far less
resource-intensive OS.

Let me know if your have any luck with Parallels instead. I know that
for Mac OS X, it's really a bastardized virtualization option, as it
can't even access both cores of a Duo Core machine. I don't know what
its track record on Windows is, though.

Jarom McDonald

David Whyte wrote:
> On 8/6/07, Matt Emmott <memmott [at] gmail> wrote:
>> I think he's actually rolling back his Vista install to a clean XP install,
>> so it might be an option. :)
>
>
> A couple of points:
>
> - I had myth running in VMware just fine. Using XP host, Ubuntu 7.04
> (pre-release) guest on a 2GHz laptop (old Pentium M chip, not dual
> core). I made the move to linux on the laptop though so I blew the
> client away, sorry!
> - I don't think winmyth works with the latest version of mythTV. I
> never got it to work good *ever* regardless of the mythTV version.
> - There was another client called Tapeworm or something. I had some
> good success with that but I have no idea where it is up to now. Try
> searching the mailing list for the web page.
>
> HTH's
> Whytey
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

--
Jarom McDonald
Assistant Research Professor
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
801-422-7426
1163G JFSB
Provo, UT 84602
jarom_mcdonald [at] byu
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mythtv-users mailing list
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memmott at gmail

Aug 6, 2007, 9:10 AM

Post #12 of 17 (1883 views)
Permalink
Re: Anyone have any luck running Myth in VMWare? [In reply to]

On 8/6/07, Jarom McDonald <jarom_mcdonald [at] byu> wrote:
>
> The problem with Myth in the virtual machine may not be VMWare at all;
> it may be Vista, which takes an enormous amount of resources. A few
> things to check:
> 1) make sure that you have the VMWare settings to reserve the entire 1GB
> of RAM for the virtual machine. This isn't the default; by default,
> VMware shares all the memory, so Vista may be hogging too much of it,
> causing your VM to start swapping.
> 2) Additionally, even if you've got a full 1GB reserved for the virtual
> machine, there's also about 100 MB of overhead, so if Vista is left with
> only 900MB of ram it may be doing some swapping itself, clogging up your
> disk I/O. Try creating your virtual machine on a separate physical disk,
> if that's possible.
> 3) Try it on XP, as others have suggested, which is a far less
> resource-intensive OS.
>
> Let me know if your have any luck with Parallels instead. I know that
> for Mac OS X, it's really a bastardized virtualization option, as it
> can't even access both cores of a Duo Core machine. I don't know what
> its track record on Windows is, though.
>
> Jarom McDonald
>
> David Whyte wrote:
> > On 8/6/07, Matt Emmott <memmott [at] gmail> wrote:
> >> I think he's actually rolling back his Vista install to a clean XP
> install,
> >> so it might be an option. :)
> >
> >
> > A couple of points:
> >
> > - I had myth running in VMware just fine. Using XP host, Ubuntu 7.04
> > (pre-release) guest on a 2GHz laptop (old Pentium M chip, not dual
> > core). I made the move to linux on the laptop though so I blew the
> > client away, sorry!
> > - I don't think winmyth works with the latest version of mythTV. I
> > never got it to work good *ever* regardless of the mythTV version.
> > - There was another client called Tapeworm or something. I had some
> > good success with that but I have no idea where it is up to now. Try
> > searching the mailing list for the web page.
> >
> > HTH's
> > Whytey
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtv-users mailing list
> > mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


Thanks for all the tips so far. To respond to your emails:

1 & 2) I've set it to reserve the GB of RAM. The host OS never used more
than 1.6GB RAM total, including the VM, which means it never went into true
pagefile territory. I'm only on one physical disk, but it is SATA 3 GB/sec.
I'll take a look at the disk activity and see if it's really being hammered.
I'll probably fire up perfmon and look at the queue length, for starters.

3) I don't have the resources to try XP on this machine, without messing
with dual booting and the like. Unfortunately it's a Dell machine with no
IDE controllers, and both SATA ports are taken up by the disk and DVD
drives.

I haven't done much testing with Parallels yet, but from what I understand
it uses a different hypervisor than VMWare, one that my BIOS supports, so
it _should_ be able to access hardware directly. Unfortunately my first load
results in Mythdora freaking out and not being able to boot after install.
That's on Mythdora 3.2 / FC5, so I'm going to try MythDora 4 / FC 6 tonight
and see what happens.


gull at gull

Aug 6, 2007, 9:45 AM

Post #13 of 17 (1890 views)
Permalink
Re: Anyone have any luck running Myth in VMWare? [In reply to]

On Aug 6, 2007, at 1:44 AM, David Whyte wrote:
> - I don't think winmyth works with the latest version of mythTV. I
> never got it to work good *ever* regardless of the mythTV version.

Hmm, that could be. I gathered from the website that the author had
trouble working out the details of the MythTV protocol, which is
apparently undocumented, so maybe he gave up.

Now that I think about it, I think it was actually MythTVPlayer I was
using, not WinMyth. I don't use Windows much, so I was going by
memory. It worked pretty well but I remember wishing it supported
deinterlacing. Once you get used to a deinterlaced display, those
comb artifacts look really ugly. :)



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scott at tbwifi

Aug 7, 2007, 7:56 AM

Post #14 of 17 (1866 views)
Permalink
Re: Anyone have any luck running Myth in VMWare? [In reply to]

I run a Mandriva 2007 host with Mythtv on the host. Capture cards are not
virtualized. Run your Windows boxes as virtual machines.

SFS

> I think he's actually rolling back his Vista install to a clean XP
> install,
> so it might be an option. :)
>
> I've installed Parallels for Windows and am installing Mythdora on top of
> it
> now. Parallels supposedly offers direct hardware support, which my BIOS
> also
> supports, so we'll see what happens.
>
> On 8/5/07, David Brodbeck <gull [at] gull> wrote:
>>
>> Matt Emmott wrote:
>> > I tried that already - Doesn't work under Vista, even in XP
>> > compatibility mode.
>>
>> That's too bad. I suppose upgrading to XP is out of the question. ;)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtv-users mailing list
>> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
>> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

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mythtv at tedde

Aug 7, 2007, 10:04 AM

Post #15 of 17 (1845 views)
Permalink
Re: Anyone have any luck running Myth in VMWare? [In reply to]

scott [at] tbwifi skrev:
> I run a Mandriva 2007 host with Mythtv on the host. Capture cards are not
> virtualized. Run your Windows boxes as virtual machines.
>
> SFS
>

As USB is virtualized it would be interesting to know if anyone has
managed to get an external capture device to work.

Similarly I would be interested in knowing if anyone has a working USB
or serial remote receiver that works, I tried an MCE remote with Vmware
workstation 5.5 and Mythdora 4.0 but got only garbage when trying to use
irw etc.

Is anyone running frontend and/or backend in vmware for anything but a
test/dev platform?

Fredrik

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jarom_mcdonald at byu

Aug 7, 2007, 11:35 AM

Post #16 of 17 (1839 views)
Permalink
Re: Anyone have any luck running Myth in VMWare? [In reply to]

I have a backend running in a virtual machine at work and it performs
like a charm; however, it is set up solely as an IPTV recorder (our
campus delivers all campus cable channels via IPTV), writing the
programs to a mounted NFS (the gigabit ethernet comes in handy there).
I've never had luck with getting physical encoding devices working.

Jarom McDonald

Fredrik Hallgarde wrote:
> scott [at] tbwifi skrev:
>> I run a Mandriva 2007 host with Mythtv on the host. Capture cards are not
>> virtualized. Run your Windows boxes as virtual machines.
>>
>> SFS
>>
>
> As USB is virtualized it would be interesting to know if anyone has
> managed to get an external capture device to work.
>
> Similarly I would be interested in knowing if anyone has a working USB
> or serial remote receiver that works, I tried an MCE remote with Vmware
> workstation 5.5 and Mythdora 4.0 but got only garbage when trying to use
> irw etc.
>
> Is anyone running frontend and/or backend in vmware for anything but a
> test/dev platform?
>
> Fredrik
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

--
Jarom McDonald
Assistant Research Professor
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
801-422-7426
1163G JFSB
Provo, UT 84602
jarom_mcdonald [at] byu
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


treythompson at gmail

Aug 7, 2007, 2:55 PM

Post #17 of 17 (1859 views)
Permalink
Re: Anyone have any luck running Myth in VMWare? [In reply to]

On 8/7/07, Jarom McDonald <jarom_mcdonald [at] byu> wrote:
>
> I have a backend running in a virtual machine at work and it performs
> like a charm; however, it is set up solely as an IPTV recorder (our
> campus delivers all campus cable channels via IPTV), writing the
> programs to a mounted NFS (the gigabit ethernet comes in handy there).
> I've never had luck with getting physical encoding devices working.
>
> Jarom McDonald
>
> Fredrik Hallgarde wrote:
> > scott [at] tbwifi skrev:
> >> I run a Mandriva 2007 host with Mythtv on the host. Capture cards are
> not
> >> virtualized. Run your Windows boxes as virtual machines.
> >>
> >> SFS
> >>
> >
> > As USB is virtualized it would be interesting to know if anyone has
> > managed to get an external capture device to work.
> >
> > Similarly I would be interested in knowing if anyone has a working USB
> > or serial remote receiver that works, I tried an MCE remote with Vmware
> > workstation 5.5 and Mythdora 4.0 but got only garbage when trying to use
> > irw etc.
> >
> > Is anyone running frontend and/or backend in vmware for anything but a
> > test/dev platform?
> >
> > Fredrik
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtv-users mailing list
> > mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
> --
> Jarom McDonald
> Assistant Research Professor
> Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
> 801-422-7426
> 1163G JFSB
> Provo, UT 84602
> jarom_mcdonald [at] byu
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>


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