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A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought

 

 

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joe.borne at gmail

Jul 17, 2007, 8:41 AM

Post #1 of 41 (8171 views)
Permalink
A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought

A while back we had a discussion of how the current plight of the RIAA
concerning enforcement of piracy/DRM might affect MythTV, and
specifially the 5C encryption of channels.

I've maintained from the start that the RIAA's path was suicidal and
would eventually cost them more than it was worth. But up until now
they have either intimidated people who were ignorant of their legal
rights into paying, or they were simply stymied in court.

But today all of that changed. As of today, someone has successfully
fought the RIAA and then forced them to pay out for the malicious
prosecution - to the tune of $68,000.

http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/2007/07/judge-awards-68000-in-attorneys-fees.html

You can bet the MPAA is watching this. So are the ISP's, the cable
companies and the content providers. Anyone else who gets sued by the
RIAA will know about this with a simple google search.

I thought it would be another 18 months before we saw this. It's good
news it's happening now.

I'm willing to bet that the RIAA will get their clocks cleaned 4 or 5
more times in the next 12 months and then the lawsuits will stop. Most
likely, someone will form a class action suit and hit them to the tune
of several million. (Any ambitious lawyers out there want some nice
juicy RIAA money?)

The MPAA will most likely never pursue this tactic as a result.

Keep an eye on the iTunes "no DRM music" situation. Our next clue will
come from there. If the DRM'd versions of songs slowly die out on the
iTunes music store, replaced by the non-DRM'd versions that are in
more demand, we will be seeing the beginning of the end of DRM and
draconian copyright enforcement.

Market pressures will determine the outcome of this issue, not the courts.
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beww at beww

Jul 17, 2007, 8:53 AM

Post #2 of 41 (8019 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

Joe Borne wrote:
> A while back we had a discussion of how the current plight of the RIAA
> concerning enforcement of piracy/DRM might affect MythTV, and
> specifially the 5C encryption of channels.
>
> I've maintained from the start that the RIAA's path was suicidal and
> would eventually cost them more than it was worth. But up until now
> they have either intimidated people who were ignorant of their legal
> rights into paying, or they were simply stymied in court.
>
> But today all of that changed. As of today, someone has successfully
> fought the RIAA and then forced them to pay out for the malicious
> prosecution - to the tune of $68,000.
>
> http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/2007/07/judge-awards-68000-in-attorneys-fees.html

Score one for our side, and the cause of "reasonableness". Thanks for
the info, and the morale boost.

I recently read an interesting quote, from none other than Courtney
Love, (paraphrased):

Piracy is the act of taking someone's music with absolutely no intention
of ever paying for it. I'm not talking about Napster, I'm talking about
a modern recording industry contract.

BEWW
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aclose at gmail

Jul 17, 2007, 9:50 AM

Post #3 of 41 (8030 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

On 7/17/07, Joe Borne <joe.borne [at] gmail> wrote:
> A while back we had a discussion of how the current plight of the RIAA
> concerning enforcement of piracy/DRM might affect MythTV, and
> specifially the 5C encryption of channels.
>
> I've maintained from the start that the RIAA's path was suicidal and
> would eventually cost them more than it was worth. But up until now
> they have either intimidated people who were ignorant of their legal
> rights into paying, or they were simply stymied in court.
>
> But today all of that changed. As of today, someone has successfully
> fought the RIAA and then forced them to pay out for the malicious
> prosecution - to the tune of $68,000.
>
> http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/2007/07/judge-awards-68000-in-attorneys-fees.html
>
> You can bet the MPAA is watching this. So are the ISP's, the cable
> companies and the content providers. Anyone else who gets sued by the
> RIAA will know about this with a simple google search.
>
> I thought it would be another 18 months before we saw this. It's good
> news it's happening now.

<snip/>

i read a headline on Digg the other day that said something about the
RIAA spending several thousand dollars to sue a single mom for ~$300.
maybe i'm misstating that since i only read the headline. but it
sounded like something silly that an idiotic bureaucracy would
pursue...
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cpartin at gmail

Jul 17, 2007, 9:55 AM

Post #4 of 41 (8020 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

On 7/17/07, Andrew Close <aclose [at] gmail> wrote:
> On 7/17/07, Joe Borne <joe.borne [at] gmail> wrote:
> > A while back we had a discussion of how the current plight of the RIAA
> > concerning enforcement of piracy/DRM might affect MythTV, and
> > specifially the 5C encryption of channels.
> >
> > I've maintained from the start that the RIAA's path was suicidal and
> > would eventually cost them more than it was worth. But up until now
> > they have either intimidated people who were ignorant of their legal
> > rights into paying, or they were simply stymied in court.
> >
> > But today all of that changed. As of today, someone has successfully
> > fought the RIAA and then forced them to pay out for the malicious
> > prosecution - to the tune of $68,000.
> >
> > http://recordingindustryvspeople.blogspot.com/2007/07/judge-awards-68000-in-attorneys-fees.html
> >
> > You can bet the MPAA is watching this. So are the ISP's, the cable
> > companies and the content providers. Anyone else who gets sued by the
> > RIAA will know about this with a simple google search.
> >
> > I thought it would be another 18 months before we saw this. It's good
> > news it's happening now.
>
> <snip/>
>
> i read a headline on Digg the other day that said something about the
> RIAA spending several thousand dollars to sue a single mom for ~$300.
> maybe i'm misstating that since i only read the headline. but it
> sounded like something silly that an idiotic bureaucracy would
> pursue...

The point of the lawsuits is not to collect money. The point is to
create fear among downloaders.
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beww at beww

Jul 17, 2007, 10:07 AM

Post #5 of 41 (8027 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

Andrew Close wrote:

>
> i read a headline on Digg the other day that said something about the
> RIAA spending several thousand dollars to sue a single mom for ~$300.
> maybe i'm misstating that since i only read the headline. but it
> sounded like something silly that an idiotic bureaucracy would
> pursue...

The RIAA has a lot of attorneys on staff, that they are paying anyway,
so their incremental cost to pursue this sort of crap is nothing. Add to
that the fact that all those attorneys have to justify their jobs...

You have to be careful of headlines containing phrases like "single
mom", it's a loaded phrase that has nothing to do with whether the
individual broke the law or not, it just immediately gains sympathy from
some readers. Would you have interpreted it differently if the writer
had said "unwed mother"?

BEWW
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aclose at gmail

Jul 17, 2007, 10:19 AM

Post #6 of 41 (8026 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

On 7/17/07, Brian Wood <beww [at] beww> wrote:
> Andrew Close wrote:
>
> >
> > i read a headline on Digg the other day that said something about the
> > RIAA spending several thousand dollars to sue a single mom for ~$300.
> > maybe i'm misstating that since i only read the headline. but it
> > sounded like something silly that an idiotic bureaucracy would
> > pursue...
>
> The RIAA has a lot of attorneys on staff, that they are paying anyway,
> so their incremental cost to pursue this sort of crap is nothing. Add to
> that the fact that all those attorneys have to justify their jobs...
>
> You have to be careful of headlines containing phrases like "single
> mom", it's a loaded phrase that has nothing to do with whether the
> individual broke the law or not, it just immediately gains sympathy from
> some readers. Would you have interpreted it differently if the writer
> had said "unwed mother"?

oh, agreed. i guess i should have paraphrased even more.
the point i wanted to make was that they were loosing money in the
effort to bring these ppl to justice. :) but as Craig mentioned, they
aren't in it for the money. not through lawsuits anyway. ;)
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beww at beww

Jul 17, 2007, 10:24 AM

Post #7 of 41 (8020 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

Andrew Close wrote:
?
>
> oh, agreed. i guess i should have paraphrased even more.
> the point i wanted to make was that they were loosing money in the
> effort to bring these ppl to justice. :) but as Craig mentioned, they
> aren't in it for the money. not through lawsuits anyway. ;)

I would think the real goal of the RIAA would be to ensure and perhaps
increase profits for its members.

I seriously doubt that their tactics are doing this, and may well be
counter-productive to that goal.

But try telling them that.

The only way things will change is if more people become aware of what
they are doing, and fight back in the only way that will get their
attention - costing their members money.

I read the amici curiae brief filed by, among others, the ACLU and the EFF.

http://www.ilrweb.com/viewILRPDF.asp?filename=capitol_foster_amicus

I think I'll send *another* check to the EFF, my T-Shirt is getting worn.

BEWW
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gull at gull

Jul 17, 2007, 10:35 AM

Post #8 of 41 (8015 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

On Jul 17, 2007, at 8:41 AM, Joe Borne wrote:
> But today all of that changed. As of today, someone has successfully
> fought the RIAA and then forced them to pay out for the malicious
> prosecution - to the tune of $68,000.

I suspect they'll appeal the ruling.



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jedi at mishnet

Jul 17, 2007, 10:36 AM

Post #9 of 41 (8013 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 11:07:27AM -0600, Brian Wood wrote:
> Andrew Close wrote:
>
> >
> > i read a headline on Digg the other day that said something about the
> > RIAA spending several thousand dollars to sue a single mom for ~$300.
> > maybe i'm misstating that since i only read the headline. but it
> > sounded like something silly that an idiotic bureaucracy would
> > pursue...
>
> The RIAA has a lot of attorneys on staff, that they are paying anyway,
> so their incremental cost to pursue this sort of crap is nothing. Add to
> that the fact that all those attorneys have to justify their jobs...
>
> You have to be careful of headlines containing phrases like "single
> mom", it's a loaded phrase that has nothing to do with whether the
> individual broke the law or not, it just immediately gains sympathy from
> some readers. Would you have interpreted it differently if the writer
> had said "unwed mother"?

...actually, that makes the plaintiff seem even more
pathetic. It brings the image of a welfare mother to mind or
some other sort of person that has problems just eating.

The "moral" element of unwed could go either way.

It still comes off as eggregious bullying though.
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jedi at mishnet

Jul 17, 2007, 10:39 AM

Post #10 of 41 (8018 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 10:35:38AM -0700, David Brodbeck wrote:
>
> On Jul 17, 2007, at 8:41 AM, Joe Borne wrote:
> > But today all of that changed. As of today, someone has successfully
> > fought the RIAA and then forced them to pay out for the malicious
> > prosecution - to the tune of $68,000.
>
> I suspect they'll appeal the ruling.

This is true. However, most people don't register anything
beyond the initial verdict. This will still stand as David managing
to give Goliath a black eye. The PR damage is done and can't be
undone.
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beww at beww

Jul 17, 2007, 10:43 AM

Post #11 of 41 (8014 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

Kevin Hulse wrote:

>> You have to be careful of headlines containing phrases like "single
>> mom", it's a loaded phrase that has nothing to do with whether the
>> individual broke the law or not, it just immediately gains sympathy from
>> some readers. Would you have interpreted it differently if the writer
>> had said "unwed mother"?
>
> ...actually, that makes the plaintiff seem even more
> pathetic. It brings the image of a welfare mother to mind or
> some other sort of person that has problems just eating.

It's just that when I see a "news" story that contains totally
irrelevant information, I become very suspicious of both the content and
the motives of the writer/publisher.

>
> The "moral" element of unwed could go either way.

Of course the person involved could be a widow, or even a rape victim.
The "moral" issues are totally non-topical, why was that information
even in the story, much less the headline?

>
> It still comes off as eggregious bullying though.

Absolutely. I can't imagine anyone would disagree with that.
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Dibblahmythml0015 at pendor

Jul 17, 2007, 11:00 AM

Post #12 of 41 (8026 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

Kevin Hulse wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 10:35:38AM -0700, David Brodbeck wrote:
>> On Jul 17, 2007, at 8:41 AM, Joe Borne wrote:
>>> But today all of that changed. As of today, someone has successfully
>>> fought the RIAA and then forced them to pay out for the malicious
>>> prosecution - to the tune of $68,000.
>> I suspect they'll appeal the ruling.
>
> This is true. However, most people don't register anything
> beyond the initial verdict. This will still stand as David managing
> to give Goliath a black eye. The PR damage is done and can't be
> undone.

This is completely off-topic, even having read the entire
document, but the assumptions here seem unjustified.

The defendant (as far as my limited legal knowledge goes)
paid her legal council the sum of $100,000 give or take.

She gets $68,000 reimbursed by the courts.

So isn't she in fact $22k worse off than if the case never
took place?

Cheers,

Allan.
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beww at beww

Jul 17, 2007, 11:21 AM

Post #13 of 41 (8012 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

Allan Stirling wrote:

>
> This is completely off-topic, even having read the entire
> document, but the assumptions here seem unjustified.

OT perhaps, but the list is "MythTV-Users", and I think this subject is
of interest to a lot of the folks here.

>
> The defendant (as far as my limited legal knowledge goes)
> paid her legal council the sum of $100,000 give or take.
>
> She gets $68,000 reimbursed by the courts.
>
> So isn't she in fact $22k worse off than if the case never
> took place?

Maybe, maybe not. What was actually billed, and what was claimed, and
what was actually paid are probably very different things.

That was the gist of what the judge said, in effect, "billable",and
"actually paid out-of-pocket" are different.

The defendant almost certainly knew the award would be reduced, and thus
probably made the highest possible claims of costs without overt fraud.
Everyone involved probably knew the true situation, but can't actually
say so.

The attorney involved will almost certainly benefit in the future from
this case, and it's pretty hard to put a price on that sort of publicity.

The bottom line is the RIAA didn't get what it wanted, a defendant was
vindicated, an attorney "won" a case, and we all smile a little bit.

BEWW
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dave at frascone

Jul 17, 2007, 11:24 AM

Post #14 of 41 (8016 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

On 7/17/07, Allan Stirling <Dibblahmythml0015 [at] pendor> wrote:
>
> Kevin Hulse wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 10:35:38AM -0700, David Brodbeck wrote:
> >> On Jul 17, 2007, at 8:41 AM, Joe Borne wrote:
> >>> But today all of that changed. As of today, someone has successfully
> >>> fought the RIAA and then forced them to pay out for the malicious
> >>> prosecution - to the tune of $68,000.
> >> I suspect they'll appeal the ruling.
> >
> > This is true. However, most people don't register anything
> > beyond the initial verdict. This will still stand as David managing
> > to give Goliath a black eye. The PR damage is done and can't be
> > undone.
>
> This is completely off-topic, even having read the entire
> document, but the assumptions here seem unjustified.
>
> The defendant (as far as my limited legal knowledge goes)
> paid her legal council the sum of $100,000 give or take.
>
> She gets $68,000 reimbursed by the courts.
>
> So isn't she in fact $22k worse off than if the case never
> took place?


Or, $32k, if the math was correct :)

-Dave



--
David Frascone

Scrute the inscrutable, eff the ineffable.


jedi at mishnet

Jul 17, 2007, 12:42 PM

Post #15 of 41 (8006 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

> Kevin Hulse wrote:
>
>>> You have to be careful of headlines containing phrases like "single
>>> mom", it's a loaded phrase that has nothing to do with whether the
>>> individual broke the law or not, it just immediately gains sympathy
>>> from
>>> some readers. Would you have interpreted it differently if the writer
>>> had said "unwed mother"?
>>
>> ...actually, that makes the plaintiff seem even more
>> pathetic. It brings the image of a welfare mother to mind or
>> some other sort of person that has problems just eating.
>
> It's just that when I see a "news" story that contains totally
> irrelevant information, I become very suspicious of both the content and
> the motives of the writer/publisher.
>
>>
>> The "moral" element of unwed could go either way.
>
> Of course the person involved could be a widow, or even a rape victim.
> The "moral" issues are totally non-topical, why was that information
> even in the story, much less the headline?

They are abusing the letter of the law to shake down people who
obviously don't have the means to pay an excessively inflated statutory
damage award. It helps highlight the absurdity of allowing large global
corporations to sue individuals for something other than actual damages.

Attributes that characterize the means of the defendant are very
relevant. A court case is burdensome not just in terms of money but in
terms of time. Not everyone has the time to spare even under the best
of circumstances.

"Who the perp is" is not at all irrelevant.

[deletia]

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beww at beww

Jul 17, 2007, 1:15 PM

Post #16 of 41 (8003 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

jedi [at] mishnet wrote:

> They are abusing the letter of the law to shake down people who
> obviously don't have the means to pay an excessively inflated statutory
> damage award. It helps highlight the absurdity of allowing large global
> corporations to sue individuals for something other than actual damages.
>
> Attributes that characterize the means of the defendant are very
> relevant. A court case is burdensome not just in terms of money but in
> terms of time. Not everyone has the time to spare even under the best
> of circumstances.
>
> "Who the perp is" is not at all irrelevant.

Good point.

The real problem is the offshore "professional" pirates, who duplicate
not only the primary art but the packaging, and sell such bootlegs on
the streets of any mid to large city. If anyone is costing the record
companies money it's those "pros", not some individual downloading a
clip for private listening.

Somehow the RIAA never seems to go after the "real" pirates, perhaps
because they lack the means, or even the statutory authority to sue some
nameless group in an unknown place.

Have you ever heard of someone driving to a record store instead of
DLing a song because they were worried about being sued by the RIAA? I
haven't. If anything their behavior would make me even less respectful
of their "rights".

BEWW
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gull at gull

Jul 17, 2007, 1:28 PM

Post #17 of 41 (8017 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

On Jul 17, 2007, at 1:15 PM, Brian Wood wrote:
> Have you ever heard of someone driving to a record store instead of
> DLing a song because they were worried about being sued by the RIAA? I
> haven't.

It took the RIAA a long time to figure out that a lot of people were
pirating music because it was convenient, not because it was cheap.
I haven't felt the urge download MP3s off any of the file sharing
networks since iTunes came on the scene. It's not worth the trouble
of trying to track down a decent illegal copy when I can buy a
legitimate one for $0.99 with a few mouse clicks.


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beww at beww

Jul 17, 2007, 2:15 PM

Post #18 of 41 (8026 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

David Brodbeck wrote:
> On Jul 17, 2007, at 1:15 PM, Brian Wood wrote:
>> Have you ever heard of someone driving to a record store instead of
>> DLing a song because they were worried about being sued by the RIAA? I
>> haven't.
>
> It took the RIAA a long time to figure out that a lot of people were
> pirating music because it was convenient, not because it was cheap.
> I haven't felt the urge download MP3s off any of the file sharing
> networks since iTunes came on the scene. It's not worth the trouble
> of trying to track down a decent illegal copy when I can buy a
> legitimate one for $0.99 with a few mouse clicks.

Agreed, and that's precisely what I do.

However, I was trying to convince my teenage niece to "do the right
thing". She told me the problem was that what she wanted was not
available on iTunes.

Hoping to prove her wrong, I sat at my machine to show her how easy it
was, and of course what she wanted was not available.

After purchasing the CD for her at the local store (I think the fuel to
get there cost more than the CD) I discovered the problem: the CD had
some sort of "parental warning" about "explicit lyrics". I'm assuming
that's why it was not on iTunes, they have no way to verify the age of a
user (my niece is 18 BTW).

Thing is, I listened to that CD very carefully (and hated it), but I
never could hear anything I'd consider even mildly offensive in any way.
I hear "worse" stuff on the evening news or prime-time sitcoms.

I guess I can understand Apple's position, but again, the convenience of
an "illegal" download, as opposed to a trip to a store, is hard to beat.
Not everyone lives a block or two from a record store.

But iTunes is certainly a step in the right direction. I read recently
that they are the number 3 music retailer in the USA. I'm sure the
brick-and-mortar stores have taken notice.

BEWW
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myth at dermanouelian

Jul 17, 2007, 4:03 PM

Post #19 of 41 (8019 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

On Jul 17, 2007, at 5:15 PM, Brian Wood wrote:

> David Brodbeck wrote:
>
> Agreed, and that's precisely what I do.
>
> However, I was trying to convince my teenage niece to "do the right
> thing". She told me the problem was that what she wanted was not
> available on iTunes.
>
> Hoping to prove her wrong, I sat at my machine to show her how easy it
> was, and of course what she wanted was not available.

They have a lot of big distributors and many small ones through
programs like they have with CD Baby, but it's impossible to have
everything. One of the issues some friends of mine have had is that
they put cover songs on CDs and didn't go through the proper legal
channels to do so and therefore, it will not be accepted on iTunes.

> After purchasing the CD for her at the local store (I think the
> fuel to
> get there cost more than the CD) I discovered the problem: the CD had
> some sort of "parental warning" about "explicit lyrics". I'm assuming
> that's why it was not on iTunes, they have no way to verify the age
> of a
> user (my niece is 18 BTW).

iTunes does carry music with explicit lyrics and there are parental
controls to prevent your child from seeing (and also previewing and
purchasing) these tracks. Places like Walmart are more likely not to
carry something because of content. Try to get a song about abortion
sold in a Walmart store.

> Thing is, I listened to that CD very carefully (and hated it), but I
> never could hear anything I'd consider even mildly offensive in any
> way.
> I hear "worse" stuff on the evening news or prime-time sitcoms.

Sometimes the sticker is used as a marketing tool so kids will want
it. Take that, PMRC.

> I guess I can understand Apple's position, but again, the
> convenience of
> an "illegal" download, as opposed to a trip to a store, is hard to
> beat.
> Not everyone lives a block or two from a record store.

That's because places like Walmart has shut them all down. It's
unfortunate.

> But iTunes is certainly a step in the right direction. I read recently
> that they are the number 3 music retailer in the USA. I'm sure the
> brick-and-mortar stores have taken notice.

The biggest killer of independent video stores is Netflix, not
Blockbuster. That should be some indication about the power of
convenience. I stopped buying music from iTunes since I can't play
them on my Myth box and the quality is a bit crappier than I care to
spend money on but you're right. It's a step in the right direction.

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rcs at malibyte

Jul 17, 2007, 10:48 PM

Post #20 of 41 (7975 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 13:28:34 -0700

On Jul 17, 2007, at 1:15 PM, Brian Wood wrote:
>> Have you ever heard of someone driving to a record store instead of
>> DLing a song because they were worried about being sued by the RIAA? I
>> haven't.

> It took the RIAA a long time to figure out that a lot of people were
> pirating music because it was convenient, not because it was cheap.
> I haven't felt the urge download MP3s off any of the file sharing
> networks since iTunes came on the scene. It's not worth the trouble
> of trying to track down a decent illegal copy when I can buy a
> legitimate one for $0.99 with a few mouse clicks.


Agreed. I don't have any problem purchasing songs, but WITHOUT DRM of any
sort-this is why I spend the $10/month for eMusic, even though their
selection is limited. Until recently, anything you bought from iTunes was
encumbered with DRM which limited your ability as to what player you can
use it on and the number of personal copies you can make (I find that my
mp3 CDs get scratched up pretty quickly after being tossed around in the
car for a while - so I make new discs every few months). I can grip
songs from my CDs to mp3, ogg, or whatever format without these
limitations. When all downloadable music is unencumbered, people will
have no problems buying it.


$0.02 worth.

Bob

--
________________________________________
Bob Sully - Simi Valley, California, USA
http://www.malibyte.net
http://www.malibyte.com

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jra at baylink

Jul 18, 2007, 6:44 AM

Post #21 of 41 (7945 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 10:48:02PM -0700, Bob Sully wrote:
> Agreed. I don't have any problem purchasing songs, but WITHOUT DRM of any
> sort-this is why I spend the $10/month for eMusic, even though their
> selection is limited. Until recently, anything you bought from iTunes was
> encumbered with DRM which limited your ability as to what player you can
> use it on and the number of personal copies you can make

While it's admittedly not a perfect solution: burn to CD, re-rip to MP3.

Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink jra [at] baylink
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24
St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274
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adeffs.mythtv at gmail

Jul 18, 2007, 7:03 AM

Post #22 of 41 (7952 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

On 7/18/07, Bob Sully <rcs [at] malibyte> wrote:
> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 13:28:34 -0700
>
> On Jul 17, 2007, at 1:15 PM, Brian Wood wrote:
> >> Have you ever heard of someone driving to a record store instead of
> >> DLing a song because they were worried about being sued by the RIAA? I
> >> haven't.
>
> > It took the RIAA a long time to figure out that a lot of people were
> > pirating music because it was convenient, not because it was cheap.
> > I haven't felt the urge download MP3s off any of the file sharing
> > networks since iTunes came on the scene. It's not worth the trouble
> > of trying to track down a decent illegal copy when I can buy a
> > legitimate one for $0.99 with a few mouse clicks.
>
>
> Agreed. I don't have any problem purchasing songs, but WITHOUT DRM of any
> sort-this is why I spend the $10/month for eMusic, even though their
> selection is limited. Until recently, anything you bought from iTunes was
> encumbered with DRM which limited your ability as to what player you can
> use it on and the number of personal copies you can make (I find that my
> mp3 CDs get scratched up pretty quickly after being tossed around in the
> car for a while - so I make new discs every few months). I can grip
> songs from my CDs to mp3, ogg, or whatever format without these
> limitations. When all downloadable music is unencumbered, people will
> have no problems buying it.

eMusic limited? my saved list there grows faster than my 75song/mo
account can handle!

of course my tastes veer more towards what eMusic has than what iTunes has.
another option I like is www.yourmusic.com which is a Columbia online
service. They do $6.99 for all cd's and you create a queue for your
monthly mailed cd so none of that having to mail a cd back thing. I've
been really happy with their service and it makes getting cd's from
the Big 3 cheaper.

oh, right, back to topic, "die RIAA die!", or something like that.

--
Steve
Before you ask, read the FAQ!
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions
then search the Wiki, and this list,
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/
Mailinglist etiquette -
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beww at beww

Jul 18, 2007, 7:06 AM

Post #23 of 41 (7960 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 10:48:02PM -0700, Bob Sully wrote:
>> Agreed. I don't have any problem purchasing songs, but WITHOUT DRM of any
>> sort-this is why I spend the $10/month for eMusic, even though their
>> selection is limited. Until recently, anything you bought from iTunes was
>> encumbered with DRM which limited your ability as to what player you can
>> use it on and the number of personal copies you can make
>
> While it's admittedly not a perfect solution: burn to CD, re-rip to MP3.

Actually, though there is a reasonable limit as to how many times you
can burn a given playlist to CD directly, making even a trivial change
to that playlist allows another set of burns. The resulting CD are
playable/rippable by anything, and do not suffer from MP3 degradation.

Obviously Apple, at the time, had to offer some sort of DRM in order to
get the rights to the art. I think they arrived at a reasonable solution.

The fact that they are starting to offer DRM-free files (albeit at a
higher price) shows that the position of the copyright holders may be
softening.

BEWW
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adeffs.mythtv at gmail

Jul 18, 2007, 7:16 AM

Post #24 of 41 (7953 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

On 7/18/07, Brian Wood <beww [at] beww> wrote:
> Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 10:48:02PM -0700, Bob Sully wrote:
> >> Agreed. I don't have any problem purchasing songs, but WITHOUT DRM of any
> >> sort-this is why I spend the $10/month for eMusic, even though their
> >> selection is limited. Until recently, anything you bought from iTunes was
> >> encumbered with DRM which limited your ability as to what player you can
> >> use it on and the number of personal copies you can make
> >
> > While it's admittedly not a perfect solution: burn to CD, re-rip to MP3.
>
> Actually, though there is a reasonable limit as to how many times you
> can burn a given playlist to CD directly, making even a trivial change
> to that playlist allows another set of burns. The resulting CD are
> playable/rippable by anything, and do not suffer from MP3 degradation.

except that they started as compressed audio files so re-ripping them
to mp3/aac again only compounds those issues.

there are also programs that allow you to create a fake CDR drive that
will actually create an ISO instead. iTunes can't tell the difference
and so no actual CDR is required and "ripping" from an ISO is always
bit perfect whereas even EAC can't claim that.

--
Steve
Before you ask, read the FAQ!
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions
then search the Wiki, and this list,
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/
Mailinglist etiquette -
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List_etiquette
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dsr-myth at tao

Jul 18, 2007, 7:17 AM

Post #25 of 41 (7961 views)
Permalink
Re: A prediction is coming true, faster than I thought [In reply to]

On Tue, Jul 17, 2007 at 12:21:08PM -0600, Brian Wood wrote:
> Allan Stirling wrote:
> > So isn't she in fact $22k worse off than if the case never
> > took place?
>
> Maybe, maybe not. What was actually billed, and what was claimed, and
> what was actually paid are probably very different things.
>
> That was the gist of what the judge said, in effect, "billable",and
> "actually paid out-of-pocket" are different.

Not only that, but.

(I've been following this case, along with many other similar
cases, more-or-less since the beginning.)

When Foster won her case and asked for attorney's fees, the RIAA
tried to argue that she was asking for too much. So Foster asked
what the RIAA was paying for their lawyers. RIAA didn't want to
say, but the court compelled them.

The 100K that Foster asked for is based on the hourly fees of
the RIAA lawyers times the hours billed by Foster's lawyers.

I believe the apropos phrase here is "hoist by their own
petard".

-dsr-

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