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vbtalent at gmail

Jun 29, 2007, 5:15 PM

Post #1 of 36 (5444 views)
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mythbackend pid

I recall not too long ago that mythbackend was supposed to start
creating a pid file when launched has that been fixed or is there a
work around that I missed?

AJM,
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adeffs.mythtv at gmail

Jun 29, 2007, 5:38 PM

Post #2 of 36 (5389 views)
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Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

On 6/29/07, A JM <vbtalent[at]gmail.com> wrote:
> I recall not too long ago that mythbackend was supposed to start
> creating a pid file when launched has that been fixed or is there a
> work around that I missed?

from SVN, though I do recall it being in 0.20 as well

mythbackend --help
Valid options are:
-h or --help List valid command line parameters
-l or --logfile filename Writes STDERR and STDOUT messages to filename
-p or --pidfile filename Write PID of mythbackend to filename
-d or --daemon Runs mythbackend as a daemon
-v or --verbose debug-level Use '-v help' for level info

--
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vbtalent at gmail

Jun 29, 2007, 5:40 PM

Post #3 of 36 (5387 views)
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Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

I saw those options however that just seemed to create a file when the
backend started but failed to delete it when it dies...

AJM,
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adeffs.mythtv at gmail

Jun 29, 2007, 5:43 PM

Post #4 of 36 (5383 views)
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Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

On 6/29/07, A JM <vbtalent[at]gmail.com> wrote:
> I saw those options however that just seemed to create a file when the
> backend started but failed to delete it when it dies...

what do you need it to delete the pid file for? (there may be a way
around the problem your trying to solve)

--
Steve
Before you ask, read the FAQ!
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then search the Wiki, and this list,
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vbtalent at gmail

Jun 29, 2007, 5:48 PM

Post #5 of 36 (5391 views)
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Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

My backend dies at inopportune times and I am hoping to use the pid to
identify when it does and restart it.

I might be thinking about this wrong but isn't the pid created when
the application launches and deleted when it dies?

I'm running svn 13754 by the way.

Thanks,
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awithers at anduin

Jun 29, 2007, 6:12 PM

Post #6 of 36 (5387 views)
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Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

> I might be thinking about this wrong but isn't the pid created when
> the application launches and deleted when it dies?

Deleting the pid file only happens on a graceful exit (meaning almost
never).

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dropax at aol

Jun 29, 2007, 6:23 PM

Post #7 of 36 (5379 views)
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Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

You can use the PID from the pid file to check whether that process is
still running. Linux ubernewbie here only knows that the "top" command
shows pid, but I'm sure there are other commands which show active
processes with less overhead or in a more easily parsed format.

Anduin Withers wrote:
>> I might be thinking about this wrong but isn't the pid created when
>> the application launches and deleted when it dies?
>
> Deleting the pid file only happens on a graceful exit (meaning almost
> never).
>
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myth at dermanouelian

Jun 29, 2007, 6:52 PM

Post #8 of 36 (5377 views)
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Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

On Jun 29, 2007, at 6:23 PM, dropax wrote:

> You can use the PID from the pid file to check whether that process is
> still running. Linux ubernewbie here only knows that the "top"
> command
> shows pid, but I'm sure there are other commands which show active
> processes with less overhead or in a more easily parsed format.

This is how I would do it:

[mythtv[at]mythtv ~]$ perl -e '$pid=`ps -ae | grep mythbackend`; $pid
=~ /^(\d+)/;print $1;'
27989[mythtv[at]mythtv ~]$

That should print out the pid of the currently running mythbackend
process. If you exit abnormally or $pid doesn't match what the
pidfile says, it's dead. You don't even need the pid, actually. If
that command exits abnormally it means $pid is null and the regex
will bail which means the backend is not running.

To paraphrase The Minutemen: hack! hack! hack!

-Brad

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vbtalent at gmail

Jun 30, 2007, 4:18 AM

Post #9 of 36 (5362 views)
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Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

OK, so the PID file isn't of much use.

How can I restart the backend from a crash I was going to try
something like the following...

#!/bin/bash
while ( true ); do
./mythbackend
done
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myth at dermanouelian

Jun 30, 2007, 10:48 AM

Post #10 of 36 (5346 views)
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Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

On Jun 30, 2007, at 4:18 AM, A JM wrote:

> OK, so the PID file isn't of much use.
>
> How can I restart the backend from a crash I was going to try
> something like the following...
>
> #!/bin/bash
> while ( true ); do
> ./mythbackend
> done

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/238205
Especially this part of the thread:
Try using /etc/inittab. <man inittab> will give you some hints. After
updating the inittab file, execute <telinit q> or reboot the system. My
inittab has these entries, which will re-start any of the processes if
they exit, and they are launched in run levels 2, 3, 4 & 5 (Ubuntu
system). Make sure the process does not run in the background, or it
will be continually re-launched and cause all sorts of trouble.

#
# MythTV stuff
mtvb:2345:respawn:su - mythtv -c "mythbackend -l /var/log/mythtv/
backend"
mtvl:2345:respawn:su - mythtv -c "mythlcdserver -l
/var/log/mythtv/lcdserver"
mtvd:2345:respawn:su - mythtv -c "mtd -n"


Now isn't it easier to just ask how to get to the result instead of
the next step in your logic? ;)


adeffs.mythtv at gmail

Jun 30, 2007, 1:08 PM

Post #11 of 36 (5342 views)
Permalink
Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

On 6/29/07, Brad DerManouelian <myth[at]dermanouelian.com> wrote:
> On Jun 29, 2007, at 6:23 PM, dropax wrote:
>
> > You can use the PID from the pid file to check whether that process is
> > still running. Linux ubernewbie here only knows that the "top"
> > command
> > shows pid, but I'm sure there are other commands which show active
> > processes with less overhead or in a more easily parsed format.
>
> This is how I would do it:
>
> [mythtv[at]mythtv ~]$ perl -e '$pid=`ps -ae | grep mythbackend`; $pid
> =~ /^(\d+)/;print $1;'
> 27989[mythtv[at]mythtv ~]$
>
> That should print out the pid of the currently running mythbackend
> process. If you exit abnormally or $pid doesn't match what the
> pidfile says, it's dead. You don't even need the pid, actually. If
> that command exits abnormally it means $pid is null and the regex
> will bail which means the backend is not running.
>
> To paraphrase The Minutemen: hack! hack! hack!


I prefer pgrep,
# pgrep
pgrep: No matching criteria specified
Usage: pgrep [-cflvx] [-d DELIM] [-n|-o] [-P PPIDLIST] [-g PGRPLIST]
[-s SIDLIST]
[-u EUIDLIST] [-U UIDLIST] [-G GIDLIST] [-t TERMLIST] [PATTERN]

so
$ pgrep mythbackend
7262

or
$ pgrep -l mythbackend
7262 mythbackend

theres also pkill,
$ pkill
pkill: No matching criteria specified
Usage: pkill [-SIGNAL] [-fvx] [-n|-o] [-P PPIDLIST] [-g PGRPLIST] [-s SIDLIST]
[-u EUIDLIST] [-U UIDLIST] [-G GIDLIST] [-t TERMLIST] [PATTERN]

so for example,
pkill -9 mythbackend
would kill the backend

--
Steve
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then search the Wiki, and this list,
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vbtalent at gmail

Jun 30, 2007, 3:29 PM

Post #12 of 36 (5340 views)
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Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

Brad,

3 questions.

Could you enlighten me on /etc/inittab and what it does? I'm still
learning Linux. (man inittab, I get no manula entry for inittab..)

Assuming I actually want to stop the backend how do I do that?

I'm guessing your running a frontend/backend on the same machine from
the following entry's, correct? are each of the lines independent of
one another?

# MythTV stuff
mtvb:2345:respawn:su - mythtv -c "mythbackend -l /var/log/mythtv/backend"

mtvl:2345:respawn:su - mythtv -c "mythlcdserver -l
/var/log/mythtv/lcdserver"
mtvd:2345:respawn:su - mythtv -c "mtd -n"

Thanks,

AJM
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myth at dermanouelian

Jun 30, 2007, 3:32 PM

Post #13 of 36 (5344 views)
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Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

On Jun 30, 2007, at 3:29 PM, A JM wrote:

> Brad,
>
> 3 questions.
>
> Could you enlighten me on /etc/inittab and what it does? I'm still
> learning Linux. (man inittab, I get no manula entry for inittab..)
>
> Assuming I actually want to stop the backend how do I do that?
>
> I'm guessing your running a frontend/backend on the same machine from
> the following entry's, correct? are each of the lines independent of
> one another?
>
> # MythTV stuff
> mtvb:2345:respawn:su - mythtv -c "mythbackend -l /var/log/mythtv/
> backend"
>
> mtvl:2345:respawn:su - mythtv -c "mythlcdserver -l
> /var/log/mythtv/lcdserver"
> mtvd:2345:respawn:su - mythtv -c "mtd -n"
>
> Thanks,
>
> AJM

No idea. I just pointed to someone else's answer to solve the problem
because I remember reading about it. My backend only ever dies when I
do a bunch of stuff in mythweb so my solution has been to stop using
mythweb since I never used it much anyway and now my backend never
dies so I don't need to monitor it at all.

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peter at bowyer

Jun 30, 2007, 3:42 PM

Post #14 of 36 (5343 views)
Permalink
Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

On 30/06/07, A JM <vbtalent[at]gmail.com> wrote:
> Brad,
>
> 3 questions.
>
> Could you enlighten me on /etc/inittab and what it does? I'm still
> learning Linux. (man inittab, I get no manula entry for inittab..)

www.google.com/search?q=inittab

produces a couple of pages of useful links.


--
Peter Bowyer
Email: peter[at]bowyer.org
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roo.watt at gmail

Jun 30, 2007, 6:29 PM

Post #15 of 36 (5333 views)
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Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

On 01/07/07, A JM <vbtalent[at]gmail.com> wrote:
> Could you enlighten me on /etc/inittab and what it does? I'm still
> learning Linux. (man inittab, I get no manula entry for inittab..)

Ubuntu no longer uses inittab, since edgy, you might want to search
for the replacement system.

I have to go (just thought this might be relevant), will check back
later tonight.

Cheers,

Roo
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vbtalent at gmail

Jul 1, 2007, 4:19 AM

Post #16 of 36 (5327 views)
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Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

Yeah, that's a problem since I am using edgy...

I like the suggestion as it seems to do what I want with the exception
of how do you keep the inittab from respawning the process when you
need to do some maintenance?

Are there any other suggestions for a similar setup?

AJM,
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roo.watt at gmail

Jul 1, 2007, 7:04 AM

Post #17 of 36 (5328 views)
Permalink
Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

On 01/07/07, A JM <vbtalent[at]gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah, that's a problem since I am using edgy...
>
> I like the suggestion as it seems to do what I want with the exception
> of how do you keep the inittab from respawning the process when you
> need to do some maintenance?

Not sure yet, I am planning to upgrade my dedicated myth box and have
been contemplating this problem.

If the old init system respawned a process to frequently it would
pause for 5 mins or so before trying to launch it again. Maybe a
wrapper script that checks for a lockfile before launching the
executable and just sleeps if it exists. At least it would survive
reboots.

Roo.
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mythtv at macker

Jul 1, 2007, 1:37 PM

Post #18 of 36 (5325 views)
Permalink
Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

A JM wrote:
*snip*
> Are there any other suggestions for a similar setup?

Well, the most simplistic, non-elegant way is to create a simple script
that runs from cron every minute and checks to see if myth is running, e.g.:
---
#!/bin/sh
PROCESS=`ps aux | grep \/usr\/bin\/mythbackend | grep -v grep`
if [ "$PROCESS" = "" ]; then
/etc/init.d/mythbackend restart
DATE=`date`
echo "$DATE restarted mythbackend" >> /var/log/backend-restart.log
fi
---
Name the script appropriately(and change the ..usr.. bit to match the
path to your copy of mythbackend) and then add a cron entry with "* * *
* *" and the path to the script. The log line isn't needed but it does
allow you to keep track of how often it decides to restart itself. The
only problem with this approach is that the restart granularity is 1
minute, so you could potentially lose up to 60 seconds of a recording.

Matt
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mythtv at hotblack

Jul 1, 2007, 3:39 PM

Post #19 of 36 (5317 views)
Permalink
Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

>Yeah, that's a problem since I am using edgy...
>
>I like the suggestion as it seems to do what I want with the exception
>of how do you keep the inittab from respawning the process when you
>need to do some maintenance?
>
>Are there any other suggestions for a similar setup?
>
>AJM,

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but other people on the
list (myself included) are using monit
(http://www.tildeslash.com/monit/).

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/120192
has a previous discussion and example configs...

- Wade
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vbtalent at gmail

Jul 1, 2007, 4:05 PM

Post #20 of 36 (5316 views)
Permalink
Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

I tried monit (http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/266596?search_string=monit;#266596)
but it depends on the PID... so we've come full circle.

AJM,
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mythtv at hotblack

Jul 1, 2007, 4:31 PM

Post #21 of 36 (5318 views)
Permalink
Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

>I tried monit
>(http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/266596?search_string=monit;#266596)
> but it depends on the PID... so we've come full circle.
>
>AJM,

OK, Now you seem to have totally lost me. Aren't you concerned about
keeping mythbackend going?

Reading this current thread it appears that you have your machine set
to create the pid file on startup, and when it dies the pid file gets
orphaned. That's perfect for monit. It can see that the pid file
doesn't relate to a current process and tries to restart it for you.

But also from reading the monit docs, it does not require a pid file
in order to keep an app going. Checking the pid file against the
current list of processes is just one way it can monitor. I've got
mine set up to use the pid file, as well as check via TCP . So if
mythbackend doesn't respond in a timely matter, monit can restart it
for you. That's the "if failed port 6544 proto http then restart"
bit from my monitrc file. It's checking the backend status via the
http status port.

excerpt from my /etc/monitrc:
check process mythbackend with pidfile /var/run/mythbackend.pid
group mythtv
start program = "/sbin/service mythbackend start"
stop program = "/sbin/service mythbackend stop"
if failed port 6544 proto http then restart
mode manual
depends on mysql


Or totally out in left field, I found this via a quick google seach.
Just a quick script to restart the backend if it fails.
http://www.knoppmythwiki.org/index.php?page=MythBackendMonitorHowTo

- Wade
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vbtalent at gmail

Jul 2, 2007, 9:12 AM

Post #22 of 36 (5290 views)
Permalink
Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

So, maybe I have a misconcenception about how the PID is supposed to
relate to the application that created it.

Running mythbackend with the following "mythbackend --pidfile
/var/run/mythtv/" creates a PID file however when I stop mythbackend
at the CL the PID file is not deleted, are you saying that monit will
be able to tell that mythbackend has stopped and it will try to
re-launch it?

I was not able to get monit to work when I tried it before, could it
be because I'm running svn?

Are you running SVN as well? would you mind posting your portion
related to mythbackend in its entirety?

AJM,
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mythtv at hotblack

Jul 2, 2007, 4:17 PM

Post #23 of 36 (5296 views)
Permalink
Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

>So, maybe I have a misconcenception about how the PID is supposed to
>relate to the application that created it.
>
>Running mythbackend with the following "mythbackend --pidfile
>/var/run/mythtv/" creates a PID file however when I stop mythbackend
>at the CL the PID file is not deleted, are you saying that monit will
>be able to tell that mythbackend has stopped and it will try to
>re-launch it?
>
>I was not able to get monit to work when I tried it before, could it
>be because I'm running svn?
>
>Are you running SVN as well? would you mind posting your portion
>related to mythbackend in its entirety?
>
>AJM,

I haven't read al the docs for monit, and my only real linux
experience has been the last 2 years playing my myth setup, so what
follows is my understanding of how this all works. With that said:

I'm not running SVN, but I was running atrpms/FC5 following Jarod's
guide, and just recently switched to MythDora 4 (FC6) and have been
using monit on both of those.

On my machine mythbackend is started or stopped using
/sbin/service mythbackend start|stop
and the init.d script takes care of removing the pid file (not
mythbackend itself).

I don't think SVN should make any difference, you could set monit to
not care about the pid (but yours sounds like it's working the way it
should).

The excerpt from my /etc/monitrc was everything related to myth. It
tells monit to check the mythbackend process that should have a pid
file, and should respond via TCP on port 6544. Monit checks to see
if there is a process called mythbackend running. If there isn't it
starts it, and emails me. If there is one running, it checks the
current pid against the one in the pid file. If it's different, it
tries to start mythbackend, and emails me. If there is one running
it checks the TCP port, and if that fails, it tries to restart it and
emails me.
So no matter what if there isn't a mythbackend running successfully,
monit jumps in and tries to get it going.

If you want to stop mythbackend for some reason, then use
monit stop mythbackend

and that in turn stops the backend and removes the pid, and then
monit stops monitoring it.

So the config files I have are

/etc/monit/monit_delay
-----------------
#! /bin/sh
# this lets the machine startup and get settled
# before monit starts worrying that mythbackend isn't going

sleep 10
/usr/local/bin/monit monitor mythbackend
-----------------


/etc/monit (excerpt of the stuff I added/changed)
-----------------
set daemon 60
set logfile /var/log/monit.log
set mailserver my.mail.server
set alert me[at]my.mail.server

check process mythbackend with pidfile /var/run/mythbackend.pid
group mythtv
start program = "/sbin/service mythbackend start"
stop program = "/sbin/service mythbackend stop"
if failed port 6544 proto http then restart
mode manual
depends on mysql

check process mysql with pidfile /var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid
group mythtv
start program = "/etc/init.d/mysqld start"
stop program = "/etc/init.d/mysqld stop"
if failed port 3306 then restart
mode manual
-----------------


So with all of this, if my backend dies, it should get kicked back
into life, and if it can't do that I should at the very least get
email notification of a problem. I should look into things further,
maybe add monitoring of /var/log/ to check for runaway logs, etc.

- Wade
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vbtalent at gmail

Jul 5, 2007, 4:02 AM

Post #24 of 36 (5201 views)
Permalink
Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

Well we seem to back to the original question because when I launch
mythbackend there is no PID file in /var/run so I "assume" that monit
can''t monitor something that doesn't exist, hence my problem...

Would using just the response from port 6544 work?

Will the devs be adding back the PID file for mythbackend?

Thanks,
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vbtalent at gmail

Jul 5, 2007, 4:10 AM

Post #25 of 36 (5194 views)
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Re: mythbackend pid [In reply to]

Just an FYI, I'm running Ubuntu SVN 13754.

Just looking in my current monitrc file and this is what I have.

group mythtv
start program = "/usr/local/bin/mythbackend --pidfile
/var/run/mythtv/mythbackend.pid restart"
stop program = "/usr/local/bin/mythbackend stop"
if failed port 6544 then restart
depends on Mysql
#depends on Lirc

check process Mysql with pidfile /var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid
group mythtv
start program = "/etc/init.d/mysql start"
stop program = "/etc/init.d/mysql stop"
if failed port 3306 then restart
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