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Zap2it Labs Shutting Down?

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rconstantine1 at yahoo

Jun 20, 2007, 9:46 AM

Post #76 of 202 (13666 views)
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

I know I"m late to this party, so I apologize if it has been discussed before...

but has anyone looked at the possibility of figuring out the guide data streams used by cable and satellite? I know my TV collects 2 weeks of guide data from the TV Guide channel (Comcast cable in Sacramento). The bummer is that it requires that the TV be off for at least 8 hours. I therefore assume this is not a high speed connection and would not be as slick as what we have now. I imagine DirecTV and Dish both have dedicated data streams for their EPGs as well. Are they piggy backed on a channel that could somehow be decoded?

Also, if we go the XMLTV route, would that possibly scrape a website of our choice for that data? I know Comcast has a good site, and I sometimes use my.yahoo as well. There certainly isn't any shortage of sites that have this data to freely view. I know someone mentioned the difficulty of gathering all data for all markets in the U.S., but usually that means all CBSs, all NBCs, etc. If the scraper could log into a Comcast or my.yahoo account, then presumably the user has already set up their postal code so the data is just what they need. And most sites also let you cull the info down to just your 'favorites', similar to the checkboxes at zap2it.

Whether there are legalities to these methods, I don't know. But as a Comcast subscriber (cable and internet services) it seems reasonable for me to use the data they provide in the way I need it. The rest of you likewise.

Whatever happens, it looks like something needs to be started soon.

And I just got my myth box, too. Bummer.

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Jun 20, 2007, 10:02 AM

Post #77 of 202 (13654 views)
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

Brian J. Murrell wrote:
> On Wed, 2007-06-20 at 10:00 -0400, Michael Jones wrote:
>> At $500/month, or $6000 a year it would require 1200 subscribers
>> paying $5 year to break even...
>
> Hrm. Something tells me that it's really not this simple. Surely the
> TMS bean counters have come to the conclusion that the number of users
> the data satisfies is relative to it's worth.
>
> Surely they have not missed the boat on the fact that a national
> newspaper like USA Today or The NY Times satisfies a much bigger
> subscriber base than a small 500 subscriber newspaper.
>
> Surely they have not ignored the "per seat" model than almost everyone
> selling a single reproducible copy of something is using.
>
> Maybe I'm wrong, but the basic greedy nature of mankind and corporation
> makes me think I am right.
>
> But let's suppose somebody does set up an amicable (to both TMS and
> subscriber base) agreement to collect subscriber fees and pay TMS.
> What's to stop the same abuse that is going on currently from
> continuing? How is this "somebody" going to curb it any better than
> Zap2It could? Surely license (from TMS) to the data does not include
> the right for the licencee to allow re-distribution by it's customers.
>
> So now not only will this "somebody" need to collect enough to pay for
> it's license to TMS, they will have to collect enough to build up a
> legal fund to prosecute the abusers.
>
> One can see why Zap2It wants to stop dealing with consumers.

I think its clear that the DataDirect side of things is a minor sideline
and is not given the resources to track down and cut off the abusers.
Doing that is not impossible.
Actually finding the proxy source is probably the hardest part. Once the
proxy is found there are a number of ways of identifing which account is
being used for that data. The most technically difficult would involve
spiking known wrong data into suspected streams and seeing if that same
wrong data appeared on the proxy source...then cut off the source
account. But it does take some time and effort. And Zap2It has been
force to give up that fight by the boss.
Maybe they will reconsider if they are aware that there is a market for
this information on an individual level.
And maybe they could do with some technical assistance on finding and
cutting off the bad guys. Staring with who they are.

R. Geoffrey Newbury

Helping with the HTTP issue
<a href="http://www.w3.org/Protocols/">HTTP</a>
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gaberubin at gmail

Jun 20, 2007, 10:05 AM

Post #78 of 202 (13649 views)
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

On 6/20/07, Jay R. Ashworth <jra [at] baylink> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 20, 2007 at 09:43:46AM -0600, Craig Partin wrote:
> > If they are shutting off the service that they started to prevent
> > scraping; does that mean that they have a way to prevent scraping via
> > some other means?
>
> Of course it doesn't mean that. If you post it, *someone* can scrape
> it, if they're motivated enough. Raw factual directory data (which
> this is) isn't copyrightable anyway; Feist v Rural makes that pretty
> clear. If there's *creative* writing in the episode descriptions, then
> maybe, but IANAL.

Yes, but they can make contractual restrictions through terms of
service that prohibit screen scraping. While it is not a technical
means to prevent screen scraping, although I have no doubt they would
constantly change the system to frustrate screen scrapers, creating an
"arms war" of who can respond quicker, this is a legal means that TMS
has at its disposal.
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cwatson at linkline

Jun 20, 2007, 10:12 AM

Post #79 of 202 (13667 views)
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

> It's people knowingly violating the license with Myth systems that made
> this inevitable. Some continued to violate even after being advised by
> TMS of the violation.
This is a crap statement. Can you prove that this is the result of
MythTV users? Are you aware that there are other programs that get the
guide data from Zap2it? Are you aware that the MythTV community has
always tried to play nice with Zap2it. Do you know that MythTV actually
follows the "next suggested grab time".

Regards,

Cecil
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newbury at mandamus

Jun 20, 2007, 10:14 AM

Post #80 of 202 (13668 views)
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

John Drescher wrote:
>>
>> Let's see, the CATV operators trying to rent DVRs, all the TV
>> advertisers, ad agencies, the DVD distribution folks, the Movie Studios,
>> The newspapers who sometimes get subscriptions from people just for a
>> "better" TV channel guide (and remember that TMS is, after all, really
>> newspaper people), the retail stores selling DVDs, Netflix, Microsoft,
>> and I'm sure many others.
>>
>
> If one of these stipulated in a contract that we should no longer get
> access
> to this data I guarantee we will not be able to get these listings even if
> several thousand of us band together and use that buying power as they
> would
> not want to violate their contract with the larger customer.
>
> John

Can you spell 'Sherman' as in Sherman Act? That would be, in my view,
clearly a restraint on trade and an violation of the Act.

But then I've never even read the Sherman Act..but I have read a lot of
case law about it, including DoJ v Microsoft where the effect of MS
requiring, as a condition of contracting with an OEM, that the OEM pay
the MS 'license' fee for every computer shipped, was discussed at some
length. As well as other aspects of their anti-competitive dealings..

Geoff

I am not a US antitrust lawyer...

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beww at beww

Jun 20, 2007, 10:28 AM

Post #81 of 202 (13672 views)
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

Cecil Watson wrote:
>> It's people knowingly violating the license with Myth systems that made
>> this inevitable. Some continued to violate even after being advised by
>> TMS of the violation.
> This is a crap statement. Can you prove that this is the result of
> MythTV users?

No, because it isn't. TMS's position and complaints have been posted by
them multiple times. They do not need me to repeat what they have said.

Are you aware that there are other programs that get the
> guide data from Zap2it? Are you aware that the MythTV community has
> always tried to play nice with Zap2it. Do you know that MythTV actually
> follows the "next suggested grab time".

Yes, I am fully aware of those things.
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Jun 20, 2007, 10:41 AM

Post #82 of 202 (13630 views)
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

Mark Phillip wrote:
> Hey folks, the quote of $500/month for data is wrong.

That was $500/month per provider lineup... and there are likely
dozens/hundreds of lineups, so your $12k number doesn't sound so far off.

-Chris

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Jun 20, 2007, 10:47 AM

Post #83 of 202 (13658 views)
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

This sounds less and less feasible to create a "provider" to the
community using zap2it data..

At 12K /mo @ $10/yr it would take more than 14K users to break even..

On Jun 20, 2007, at 1:41 PM, Chris Petersen wrote:

> Mark Phillip wrote:
>> Hey folks, the quote of $500/month for data is wrong.
>
> That was $500/month per provider lineup... and there are likely
> dozens/hundreds of lineups, so your $12k number doesn't sound so
> far off.
>
> -Chris
>
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Dean at cognation

Jun 20, 2007, 10:54 AM

Post #84 of 202 (13656 views)
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

Does anyone know how many MythTV users there are globally or in the USA?

Regards,

Dean Collins
Cognation Pty Ltd
dean [at] cognation
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+1-917-207-3420 Mb
+61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mythtv-users-bounces [at] mythtv [mailto:mythtv-users-
> bounces [at] mythtv] On Behalf Of Michael Jones
> Sent: Wednesday, 20 June 2007 1:48 PM
> To: Discussion about mythtv
> Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Zap2it Labs Shutting Down?
>
> This sounds less and less feasible to create a "provider" to the
> community using zap2it data..
>
> At 12K /mo @ $10/yr it would take more than 14K users to break even..
>
>
> On Jun 20, 2007, at 1:41 PM, Chris Petersen wrote:
>
> > Mark Phillip wrote:
> >> Hey folks, the quote of $500/month for data is wrong.
> >
> > That was $500/month per provider lineup... and there are likely
> > dozens/hundreds of lineups, so your $12k number doesn't sound so
> > far off.
> >
> > -Chris
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtv-users mailing list
> > mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
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jakep_82 at hotmail

Jun 20, 2007, 10:58 AM

Post #85 of 202 (13654 views)
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

>From: Michael Jones <mythlist [at] michaelandholly>
>Reply-To: Discussion about mythtv <mythtv-users [at] mythtv>
>To: Discussion about mythtv <mythtv-users [at] mythtv>
>Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Zap2it Labs Shutting Down?
>Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 13:47:37 -0400
>
>This sounds less and less feasible to create a "provider" to the
>community using zap2it data..
>
>At 12K /mo @ $10/yr it would take more than 14K users to break even..
>

I think most people would be willing to pay more than $10 a year. My only
alternative is to pay my cable provider $10 a MONTH for a crappy DVR. I
don't think $5 a month is an unreasonable amount. That drops the number to
more like 3K to break even.

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Jun 20, 2007, 11:04 AM

Post #86 of 202 (13642 views)
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
> Of course it doesn't mean that. If you post it, *someone* can scrape
> it, if they're motivated enough. Raw factual directory data (which
> this is) isn't copyrightable anyway; Feist v Rural makes that pretty
> clear. If there's *creative* writing in the episode descriptions, then
> maybe, but IANAL.

Show names, episode titles, etc. are all copyright to the respective tv
networks that own them. They license use of these names to TMS, who can
then sell them at whatever price the market can bear.

-Chris

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Jun 20, 2007, 11:08 AM

Post #87 of 202 (13645 views)
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

Michael Jones wrote:
> I have contacted the labs [at] zap2it to request pricing and and
> licensing information..

At this point, I would really like to encourage people not to freak out
too much. Give the MythTV devs time to figure out a solution. We are
working with zap2it, as well as looking at other options for listings
data, including working with other projects (open and closed source).

The data pricing quoted before is about $500/month per listing (e.g.
"comcast seattle, digital") and is WAY out of the price range for MythTV
users to carry. We may or may not be able to work out a deal for lower
pricing, but there will be an announcement one way or another when we
have information.

-Chris

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Jun 20, 2007, 11:13 AM

Post #88 of 202 (13640 views)
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

David Schmidt wrote:
> As far as number of users, I'd think TMS would know, since we, IIRC,
> had to enter a Myth application code when creating our own Zap2It
> IDs....

Daniel and Isaac are both working with Zap2it on this. We just haven't
heard anything back yet.

> As a programmer by trade, sounds impractical nationwide. To get local
> programming, you'd have to have a (custom) scraper for every station
> in every market....

Yes, you would. No one said it wouldn't be a large project, but it
would not be impossible.

-Chris

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Jun 20, 2007, 11:16 AM

Post #89 of 202 (13649 views)
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

Dean Collins wrote:
> Does anyone know how many MythTV users there are globally or in the USA?

No. Isaac's usual response is something like: "One. Two if you're
using it, too." We have no way to know. We've asked Zap2it if they can
get us the number of people actively using DD data, though.

-Chris

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Jun 20, 2007, 11:20 AM

Post #90 of 202 (13670 views)
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

On Wed, Jun 20, 2007 at 11:04:35AM -0700, Chris Petersen wrote:
> Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
> > Of course it doesn't mean that. If you post it, *someone* can scrape
> > it, if they're motivated enough. Raw factual directory data (which
> > this is) isn't copyrightable anyway; Feist v Rural makes that pretty
> > clear. If there's *creative* writing in the episode descriptions, then
> > maybe, but IANAL.
>
> Show names, episode titles, etc. are all copyright to the respective tv
> networks that own them. They license use of these names to TMS, who can
> then sell them at whatever price the market can bear.

You can't copyright a title of a creative work. You can apply
for a trademark, but that doesn't restrict people from talking
about it. (I bought a box of Kleenex tissues yesterday. Want to
learn how to configure a cisco 2600?) And patents don't apply.

You can't copyright the factual information about a work or
newsworthy event either, as Major League Baseball, Inc. has been
finding out, repeatedly.

The shows themselves are copyright-owned by whatever entities,
but MythTV, TiVo, and Comcast wouldn't exist if there weren't
legal ways to distribute the vast majority of them without
paying anyone a fee.

Now, TMS may have a contract with each and every television
station in North America... but I suspect that they don't, and
that they may not even have an exclusivity clause. Consider PBS
stations.

-dsr-

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jason0x21 at gmail

Jun 20, 2007, 11:22 AM

Post #91 of 202 (13643 views)
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

On 6/19/07, Eric Holt <eric-mythtv [at] skoozdag> wrote:
> I just saw this posted on the KnoppMyth forums, and for sure, I checked
> out the Zap2it Labs website, and there is the announcement:
>
> [.Listings vanish forever. Film at... well... we're not sure; because there aren't any listings.]

I know the core MythTV guys are working with Zap2It on this, and so
the final outcome is still up in the air (thanks to all the MythTV
guys trying to reach a solution, btw. Beers all around if you ever
come to North Carolina), and I know this will only work on a
per-provider-basis; but...

I get my Internets from Time Warner, and I get my Cable TV from Time
Warner. Time Warner also has show listings on their website, which
they presumably license from TMS. So has anyone looked at getting
their individual cable provider to cough up XML listings on a
subscribers-only basis? I know it's in Time Warner's interests to get
my to buy their DVR, but I also know they'd jump at the chance to
charge me another $5 or so a month (heck, sometimes they just do it
for no discernible reason).

I know this wouldn't work for everyone, but it might be a solution for many.

--
Jason Sullivan
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Jun 20, 2007, 11:26 AM

Post #92 of 202 (13639 views)
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

Dan Ritter wrote:
> You can't copyright a title of a creative work. You can apply
> for a trademark, but that doesn't restrict people from talking
> about it. (I bought a box of Kleenex tissues yesterday. Want to
> learn how to configure a cisco 2600?) And patents don't apply.

Call it trademark, then. Either way, *most* tv show names belong to
someone, and you can't legally publish information about them without
proper attribution.

TMS's descriptions do probably fall under "creative work", though.

> Now, TMS may have a contract with each and every television
> station in North America... but I suspect that they don't, and
> that they may not even have an exclusivity clause. Consider PBS
> stations.

It doesn't take "each and every" station.. but if they have exclusivity
(or near-exclusivity) agreements with most of the big ones, it makes it
hard for a small group of users to get access to the data, expecially if
we're all too cheap to consider paying more than $5-10/year (let alone
per month).

-Chris

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Jun 20, 2007, 11:30 AM

Post #93 of 202 (13645 views)
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

Does anyone have access to know how many users are subscribed to this
mailing list? Of course that would be a very rough estimate and would
include more than just the US, but might provide some idea.

-Paul

On 6/20/07, Chris Petersen <lists [at] forevermore> wrote:
>
> Dean Collins wrote:
> > Does anyone know how many MythTV users there are globally or in the USA?
>
> No. Isaac's usual response is something like: "One. Two if you're
> using it, too." We have no way to know. We've asked Zap2it if they can
> get us the number of people actively using DD data, though.
>
> -Chris
>
>
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>
>
>

srikant.sharma at gmail

Jun 20, 2007, 11:40 AM

Post #94 of 202 (13639 views)
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

Disclaimer: I am very new to mythtv so just disregard this mail if it does
not make sense.

I gather that the main complaint of zap2it is the abuse of their
system/facility by users.
They apparently do not have problem is sharing the listings with end-users
like us, so far.

Is it possible for us (mythtv-users) to convince them to share the data
with a very limited
number of users? We users can later distribute.propagate the data using
some peer-to-peer
protocol. This will alleviate the load on their servers and we can still
manage to get the listings.

I am sure mythtv users will not mind to share the listings with neighbors,
if there is some way to
get them an distribute them.

--
Srikant

mythlist at michaelandholly

Jun 20, 2007, 11:43 AM

Post #95 of 202 (13713 views)
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

This is probably academic.. but.. Without reliable and relatively
automated data, I might as well disassemble my MythTV box or just use
it as a "DVD Jukebox".

I have confidence that a solution will be found.. MythTV existed
before Zap2it gave us xml data didn't it?

I think Chris has a good point that we haven't reached the point
where "freaking out" is warranted... I'm sure SOMEONE will let us
know when it's time to freak out ;-)

On Jun 20, 2007, at 2:26 PM, Chris Petersen wrote:

> Dan Ritter wrote:
>> You can't copyright a title of a creative work. You can apply
>> for a trademark, but that doesn't restrict people from talking
>> about it. (I bought a box of Kleenex tissues yesterday. Want to
>> learn how to configure a cisco 2600?) And patents don't apply.
>
> Call it trademark, then. Either way, *most* tv show names belong to
> someone, and you can't legally publish information about them without
> proper attribution.
>
> TMS's descriptions do probably fall under "creative work", though.
>
>> Now, TMS may have a contract with each and every television
>> station in North America... but I suspect that they don't, and
>> that they may not even have an exclusivity clause. Consider PBS
>> stations.
>
> It doesn't take "each and every" station.. but if they have
> exclusivity
> (or near-exclusivity) agreements with most of the big ones, it
> makes it
> hard for a small group of users to get access to the data,
> expecially if
> we're all too cheap to consider paying more than $5-10/year (let alone
> per month).
>
> -Chris
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
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mythtv at rodsbooks

Jun 20, 2007, 11:50 AM

Post #96 of 202 (13676 views)
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

On Wednesday 20 June 2007 12:46, ryan constantine wrote:
> I know I"m late to this party, so I apologize if it has been discussed
> before...
>
> but has anyone looked at the possibility of figuring out the guide data
> streams used by cable and satellite?

Another idea occurs to me, albeit one that might or might not be legal (I
simply don't know): TiVo distributes its guide data in the form of "paid
programming" on various channels (mostly Discovery). If you tune in and watch
one of these, you see a screen with a text message in the center of the
screen to the effect that this is guide data fro TiVos. Surrounding this is a
series of white and black squares that blink on and off -- presumably some
form of binary-encoded data. In theory, it should be possible for Myth boxes
to record these shows and extract the data from them. Granted, it'd be a big
challenge to figure out the encoding method, and if TiVo uses any sort of
encryption it'd be even worse (maybe impossible) to access the data. Then of
course there's the question of whether this would be legal (as I say, I
simply don't know). If TiVo wanted to disrupt such activities, I'm sure they
could, simply by providing incomplete or partially inaccurate listings via
this method and correcting them via the TiVo units' phone calls. Still, I
thought I'd toss this out as a possibility....

--
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Jun 20, 2007, 11:50 AM

Post #97 of 202 (13672 views)
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Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

Something like a Tier 1.. Tier x NTP server...

That would work provided that Zap2It/TMS would allow us to
"redistribute" their data on our own.

It would be interesting if someone would share with the rest of us
what the current state of "negotiations" and options being discussed
are with the Zap2it/TMS folks

Chris? Isaac? Daniel? Any comments for those of us waiting with
baited breath?

- Michael

On Jun 20, 2007, at 2:40 PM, Srikant Sharma wrote:

>
>
> Disclaimer: I am very new to mythtv so just disregard this mail if
> it does not make sense.
>
> I gather that the main complaint of zap2it is the abuse of their
> system/facility by users.
> They apparently do not have problem is sharing the listings with
> end-users like us, so far.
>
> Is it possible for us (mythtv-users) to convince them to share the
> data with a very limited
> number of users? We users can later distribute.propagate the data
> using some peer-to-peer
> protocol. This will alleviate the load on their servers and we can
> still manage to get the listings.
>
> I am sure mythtv users will not mind to share the listings with
> neighbors, if there is some way to
> get them an distribute them.
>
> --
> Srikant
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

_______________________________________________
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Jun 20, 2007, 11:52 AM

Post #98 of 202 (13646 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

That or <<shudder>> switch to Vista Ultimate Media Edition .. EW!!!...

On Jun 20, 2007, at 2:43 PM, Michael Jones wrote:

> This is probably academic.. but.. Without reliable and relatively
> automated data, I might as well disassemble my MythTV box or just use
> it as a "DVD Jukebox".
>
> I have confidence that a solution will be found.. MythTV existed
> before Zap2it gave us xml data didn't it?
>
>
> I think Chris has a good point that we haven't reached the point
> where "freaking out" is warranted... I'm sure SOMEONE will let us
> know when it's time to freak out ;-)
>
>
>
> On Jun 20, 2007, at 2:26 PM, Chris Petersen wrote:
>
>> Dan Ritter wrote:
>>> You can't copyright a title of a creative work. You can apply
>>> for a trademark, but that doesn't restrict people from talking
>>> about it. (I bought a box of Kleenex tissues yesterday. Want to
>>> learn how to configure a cisco 2600?) And patents don't apply.
>>
>> Call it trademark, then. Either way, *most* tv show names belong to
>> someone, and you can't legally publish information about them without
>> proper attribution.
>>
>> TMS's descriptions do probably fall under "creative work", though.
>>
>>> Now, TMS may have a contract with each and every television
>>> station in North America... but I suspect that they don't, and
>>> that they may not even have an exclusivity clause. Consider PBS
>>> stations.
>>
>> It doesn't take "each and every" station.. but if they have
>> exclusivity
>> (or near-exclusivity) agreements with most of the big ones, it
>> makes it
>> hard for a small group of users to get access to the data,
>> expecially if
>> we're all too cheap to consider paying more than $5-10/year (let
>> alone
>> per month).
>>
>> -Chris
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtv-users mailing list
>> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
>> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

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lists at forevermore

Jun 20, 2007, 11:56 AM

Post #99 of 202 (13665 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

Michael Jones wrote:
> It would be interesting if someone would share with the rest of us
> what the current state of "negotiations" and options being discussed
> are with the Zap2it/TMS folks

Last I heard, Daniel sent them some questions about user count and
pricing, but hasn't heard back.

-Chris

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Jun 20, 2007, 11:58 AM

Post #100 of 202 (13633 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

Ok, to clarify some information and hopefully calm down some of the
frantic chatter, here's an overview of what is going on:

The MythTV developers are currently working with TMS to see if there is
a way we can purchase/resell listings data to MythTV users. We are
awaiting numbers both for cost and for the number of people actively
using DD data (to give us an estimate of what the per-user cost might
end up being). It's still completely undecided whether this would
happen as a function of MythTV or if a new org would be created to deal
with it. Don't ask, we don't know yet. If something comes of this, I'm
sure that there will be an announcement.

We are also looking at other providers, as well as the option of working
with other projects (both open and closed source) to band together on a
similar service.

As Daniel said, we are also considering the idea of contacting
individual stations directly and working out deals to build our own
service, like the group in Sweden did. I assume that if we did this,
we'd end up working with the xmltv folks, too.

---

Now... there are also some problems with many of the ideas that have
come up. Here are a few:

Charging for data will leave a bad taste in the mouths of a lot of
MythTV users, which means we could lose a sizeable chunk of the user base.

Not charging for data, but hosting it ourselves, means that we'd run
into the same problem as zap2it with commercial groups abusing the
system. Using hashing algorithms/etc to track "legit" MythTV
installations is impossible due to the whole "open source" thing.

Ad-supported models are great except for the fact that MythTV is an open
source project. It would be *very* easy for someone to maintain an
"ad-free" patch set, and people could get the listings without seeing
any ads.

Someone owns the rights to program titles/etc. xmltv can give users
access to this info because the user downloads the info directly. If we
want to host this in a central repository somewhere, we will likely need
permission to do so.

---

Once we figure something out, I'm sure there will be an official working
group put together, but I would strongly encourage individuals not
directly related to development to avoid contacting anyone on behalf of
the MythTV community. It creates confusion and will only slow down the
progress by people officially involved.

-Chris

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