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Zap2it Labs Shutting Down?

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david at segall

Jun 20, 2007, 1:24 AM

Post #26 of 202 (11060 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

Joseph Caputo wrote:
> On 6/19/07, Jake Palmer <jakep_82 [at] hotmail> wrote:
>>> From: Eric Holt <eric-mythtv [at] skoozdag>
>>> Reply-To: eric-mythtv [at] skoozdag,Discussion about mythtv
>>> <mythtv-users [at] mythtv>
>>> To: Discussion about mythtv <mythtv-users [at] mythtv>
>>> Subject: [mythtv-users] Zap2it Labs Shutting Down?
>>> Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 21:34:27 -0400
>>>
>>> I just saw this posted on the KnoppMyth forums, and for sure, I checked
>>> out the Zap2it Labs website, and there is the announcement:
>>>
>>> http://labs.zap2it.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> IMPORTANT MESSAGE:
>>>
>>> For several years we have offered a free TV listings service to
>>> hobbyists for their own personal, noncommercial use. In October of 2004
>>> we posted here an open letter saying the future of Zap2it Labs was at
>>> risk because of certain growing misuses of the Zap2it Labs data.
>>> Unfortunately this misuse has continued and grown. These misuses,
>>> combined with other business factors have led to the decision to
>>> discontinue Zap2it Labs effective September 1, 2007.
>>>
>>> We thank those users who have honored the terms of the agreement, and we
>>> suggest you consider the many TV listings options offered by the
>>> commercial licensees of TMS TV listings data.
>>>
>>> If you would like to discuss how to license TV listings for commercial
>>> use, please let us know by e-mail (labs [at] zap2it) and include your
>>> company name, telephone number and the best time to reach you. We will
>>> respond to your inquiry as soon as possible.
>>>
>>> We anticipate this decision will generate discussion and invite you to
>>> respond via the Zap2it Labs forum. We will do our best to respond to
>>> relevant questions posted on this forum in a timely manner.
>>> -----
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ~Aryq~
>> So where does this leave MythTV? Without listing data I've got a thousand
>> dollar computer with 1.4TB of space and all it will do is play MP3's and
>> DVD's. I can't stand the very thought of paying Comcast for the privilege
>> of using one of their crappy DVR's.
>>
>> Jake
>
>
> Back to XMLTV web scraping?
If so, you may find Shepherd <http://svn.whuffy.com/wiki> interesting.
It's an Australian (only) scraper that uses multiple data sources and
contains extra smarts like adding information from IMDB. It is open
source and should be adaptable to U.S. program guides.
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william_munson at bellsouth

Jun 20, 2007, 2:54 AM

Post #27 of 202 (11036 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

Eric Holt wrote:
> I just saw this posted on the KnoppMyth forums, and for sure, I checked
> out the Zap2it Labs website, and there is the announcement:
>
> http://labs.zap2it.com/
>
>
> -----
> IMPORTANT MESSAGE:
>
> For several years we have offered a free TV listings service to
> hobbyists for their own personal, noncommercial use. In October of 2004
> we posted here an open letter saying the future of Zap2it Labs was at
> risk because of certain growing misuses of the Zap2it Labs data.
> Unfortunately this misuse has continued and grown. These misuses,
> combined with other business factors have led to the decision to
> discontinue Zap2it Labs effective September 1, 2007.
>
> We thank those users who have honored the terms of the agreement, and we
> suggest you consider the many TV listings options offered by the
> commercial licensees of TMS TV listings data.
>
> If you would like to discuss how to license TV listings for commercial
> use, please let us know by e-mail (labs [at] zap2it) and include your
> company name, telephone number and the best time to reach you. We will
> respond to your inquiry as soon as possible.
>
> We anticipate this decision will generate discussion and invite you to
> respond via the Zap2it Labs forum. We will do our best to respond to
> relevant questions posted on this forum in a timely manner.
> -----
>
>

Does not surprise me in the least. It costs them big $$ to purchase the
info and we pirate the info for free (Yes I know they let us with the
labs.) Its the same as people ripping DVDs to the hard drive. Another
"harmless" illegal act that in the eyes of the Hollywood guys costs big
bucks. We need to suck it up and pay for the info we use. Either that or
go with one of the commercial software DVRs that include listings and
then you are paying for it by purchasing the software.

I never did understand the logic in ripping DVDs. After all I can rent
one for $1/day and have yet to see one that I wanted to watch twice. If
your kid cant get enough of Barney or whatever, buy the darn thing and
support the industry.
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blubdog at gmail

Jun 20, 2007, 5:42 AM

Post #28 of 202 (11037 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

> I don't mind paying ...

Login to labs.zap2it.com with your normal myth signin, and then go to
the forums.

Look for the discussion thread about this subject, and near the top
middle of the screen there is a poll asking if you'd be willing to pay
for TV listings. VOTE!!!

It appears that zip2it is considering this option because they took
the time to put a poll on the forum!

- BS
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gravityhammer at gmail

Jun 20, 2007, 5:53 AM

Post #29 of 202 (11036 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

On 6/20/07, Bruce Smith <blubdog [at] gmail> wrote:
> > I don't mind paying ...
>
> Login to labs.zap2it.com with your normal myth signin, and then go to
> the forums.
>
> Look for the discussion thread about this subject, and near the top
> middle of the screen there is a poll asking if you'd be willing to pay
> for TV listings. VOTE!!!
>
> It appears that zip2it is considering this option because they took
> the time to put a poll on the forum!
>
> - BS

Don't hold your breath - a user posted that poll - not the Zap2it Labs staff.
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level42 at sympatico

Jun 20, 2007, 6:13 AM

Post #30 of 202 (11011 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

Anyone from the mythtv development team planning to contact them to work out
a deal?

I would be willing to pay a modest fee yearly fee for the service if they
would continue it.

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mythtv-users at phipps-hutton

Jun 20, 2007, 6:17 AM

Post #31 of 202 (11035 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

On Wednesday 20 June 2007 10:54 am, William Munson wrote:
> Does not surprise me in the least. It costs them big $$ to purchase the
> info and we pirate the info for free (Yes I know they let us with the
> labs.)

I never did understand why listings cost money, after all if viewers
can't/don't get listings they won't watch your programme. I don't pay for all
the adverts on web pages. Does the industry really think that people will
just turn on the TV to a random channel and buy whatever appears in the ads?

> I never did understand the logic in ripping DVDs. After all I can rent
> one for $1/day and have yet to see one that I wanted to watch twice. If
> your kid cant get enough of Barney or whatever, buy the darn thing and
> support the industry.

I rip them so my kid doesn't have to be subject to adverts for other DVDs,
copyright warnings, annoying intros etc. We just scroll down MythVideo 'till
she chooses the cover image she recognises. She's a bit less than three and
she can work the pause and play buttons on the remote, it won't be long
before I have to figure out parental control in Myth ;-)

Cheers,
Tim.
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greg at phaze

Jun 20, 2007, 6:22 AM

Post #32 of 202 (11029 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

> Anyone from the mythtv development team planning to contact them to work out
> a deal?

All Options are being discussed, but nothing has been decided at this point.

> I would be willing to pay a modest fee yearly fee for the service if they
> would continue it.

Personally so would I. The information has value to me, and it's worth a few
dollars to me to have it.

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jimdscott at gmail

Jun 20, 2007, 6:27 AM

Post #33 of 202 (11021 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

On 6/20/07, Greg Estabrooks <greg [at] phaze> wrote:
>
> > Anyone from the mythtv development team planning to contact them to work
> out
> > a deal?
>
> All Options are being discussed, but nothing has been decided at this
> point.
>
> > I would be willing to pay a modest fee yearly fee for the service if
> they
> > would continue it.
>
> Personally so would I. The information has value to me, and it's worth a
> few
> dollars to me to have it.
>
>
I need the listings. I'd pay to download them or help work on a project to
provide listings to the community.

decepticon at gmail

Jun 20, 2007, 6:27 AM

Post #34 of 202 (11016 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

>
>
> > I would be willing to pay a modest fee yearly fee for the service if
> they
> > would continue it.
>
> Personally so would I. The information has value to me, and it's worth a
> few
> dollars to me to have it.

Same here. Although, another cost free option would be ideal, of course.
-J

danielk at cuymedia

Jun 20, 2007, 6:30 AM

Post #35 of 202 (11012 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

On Wed, 2007-06-20 at 09:13 -0400, Bill wrote:
> Anyone from the mythtv development team planning to contact them to work out
> a deal?

Don't panic!

They contacted Issac just before they went public.

Some serious people are talking about licensing the data from
TMS, but this will take a little time to work out. We have no
idea of the number of MythTV users that use DataDirect listings,
nor how much TMS charges for commercial access to their data
stream.

Another option is to get the data directly from the stations
themselves, this was done by some MythTV users in Sweden with
much success. There are fewer stations there, but there are
also many more MythTV users in North America who are willing
to do some legwork.

-- Daniel

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Braindead at diablops

Jun 20, 2007, 6:30 AM

Post #36 of 202 (10996 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 14:17:19 +0100
Tim Phipps <mythtv-users [at] phipps-hutton> wrote:

> On Wednesday 20 June 2007 10:54 am, William Munson wrote:
> > Does not surprise me in the least. It costs them big $$ to purchase
> > the info and we pirate the info for free (Yes I know they let us
> > with the labs.)
>
> I never did understand why listings cost money, after all if viewers
> can't/don't get listings they won't watch your programme. I don't pay
> for all the adverts on web pages. Does the industry really think that
> people will just turn on the TV to a random channel and buy whatever
> appears in the ads?

My wife's PC has Windoze MCE on it (I know evil, but it works for her).. and we aren't paying for the listings there. I'm not sure if MS is kicking back money from the sales of Windoze. Just pointing that out.
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mythlist at michaelandholly

Jun 20, 2007, 6:33 AM

Post #37 of 202 (11008 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

If we are unable to use Zap2It Labs for in it's current form, and
Zap2It is not willing to create a "personal subscription" option,
what's the possibility of creating a group to purchase the rights to
the data as a "commercial" provider and provide it to the MythTV
community for a low/modest subscription fee?

I'd be willing to work with creating this company/group?

I would guess this would depend on what Zap2it charges for the data?
Could be rather pricey.

On Jun 20, 2007, at 9:27 AM, Jim Scott wrote:

> On 6/20/07, Greg Estabrooks <greg [at] phaze> wrote:
> > Anyone from the mythtv development team planning to contact them
> to work out
> > a deal?
>
> All Options are being discussed, but nothing has been decided at
> this point.
>
> > I would be willing to pay a modest fee yearly fee for the service
> if they
> > would continue it.
>
> Personally so would I. The information has value to me, and it's
> worth a few
> dollars to me to have it.
>
>
> I need the listings. I'd pay to download them or help work on a
> project to provide listings to the community.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

drescherjm at gmail

Jun 20, 2007, 6:38 AM

Post #38 of 202 (11007 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

> On Wednesday 20 June 2007 10:54 am, William Munson wrote:
> > Does not surprise me in the least. It costs them big $$ to purchase the
> > info and we pirate the info for free (Yes I know they let us with the
> > labs.)
>
> I never did understand why listings cost money, after all if viewers
> can't/don't get listings they won't watch your programme.
You can get individual listings on web sites of many of the channels
or your local cable company may have a guide online.

> I don't pay for all
> the adverts on web pages. Does the industry really think that people will
> just turn on the TV to a random channel and buy whatever appears in the ads?
>

I believe the problem is the individual user was not the intended
direct customer of these listings. I mean your local news paper pays a
company a large fee to that it can print your weekly guide to
thousands of customers. For them they see this payment as a service of
collecting and compiling this data and it makes sense as they would
have to go to multiple outlets to get all the data. When TIVO entered
the market they were charged this same type of fee so they just passed
the cost on to the user as a monthly fee.

John
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cbrodine at gmail

Jun 20, 2007, 6:41 AM

Post #39 of 202 (11016 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

On 6/20/07, Michael Jones <mythlist [at] michaelandholly> wrote:
>
> If we are unable to use Zap2It Labs for in it's current form, and Zap2It
> is not willing to create a "personal subscription" option, what's the
> possibility of creating a group to purchase the rights to the data as a
> "commercial" provider and provide it to the MythTV community for a
> low/modest subscription fee?
> I'd be willing to work with creating this company/group?
>
> I would guess this would depend on what Zap2it charges for the data?
> Could be rather pricey.
>
> On Jun 20, 2007, at 9:27 AM, Jim Scott wrote:
>
> On 6/20/07, Greg Estabrooks <greg [at] phaze> wrote:
> >
> > > Anyone from the mythtv development team planning to contact them to
> > work out
> > > a deal?
> >
> > All Options are being discussed, but nothing has been decided at this
> > point.
> >
> > > I would be willing to pay a modest fee yearly fee for the service if
> > they
> > > would continue it.
> >
> > Personally so would I. The information has value to me, and it's worth a
> > few
> > dollars to me to have it.
> >
> >
> I need the listings. I'd pay to download them or help work on a project to
> provide listings to the community.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
It's my understanding that they cost somewhere around $500 per month for a
commercial license to there listings. I saw that one the Zap2it forums, so
I'm not sure of the accuracy.

I would pay or help create something that would get me the listings I need.

Cole Brodine

-------------------------------------------
Visit My Website at http://www.brodine.com/
Blog: http://rabbitinhiding.blogspot.com/
ICQ: 5857320
Skype: cbrodine
yahoo: brodinec
MSN: brodinec [at] yahoo
-------------------------------------------

Dean at cognation

Jun 20, 2007, 6:41 AM

Post #40 of 202 (11011 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

Is anyone going to bitch if I suggest an advertising supported model?

Small banner add on the base of your epg in the same way that Spiceworks
delivers their advertisements?
http://deancollinsblog.blogspot.com/2007/04/spiceworks-killer-app-for-ne
twork.html

I'm actually in the process of paying for the development of an ad
supported Asterisk application but when I've approached the Myth-TV
community about commercial projects in the past you guys get your
knickers in a knot faster then even the asterisk community.

Any comments?

Regards,

Dean Collins
Cognation Pty Ltd
dean [at] cognation
<mailto:dean [at] cognation> +1-212-203-4357 Ph
+61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial).

________________________________

From: mythtv-users-bounces [at] mythtv
[mailto:mythtv-users-bounces [at] mythtv] On Behalf Of Michael Jones
Sent: Wednesday, 20 June 2007 9:34 AM
To: Discussion about mythtv
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Zap2it Labs Shutting Down?

If we are unable to use Zap2It Labs for in it's current form, and Zap2It
is not willing to create a "personal subscription" option, what's the
possibility of creating a group to purchase the rights to the data as a
"commercial" provider and provide it to the MythTV community for a
low/modest subscription fee?

I'd be willing to work with creating this company/group?

I would guess this would depend on what Zap2it charges for the data?
Could be rather pricey.

On Jun 20, 2007, at 9:27 AM, Jim Scott wrote:

On 6/20/07, Greg Estabrooks <greg [at] phaze> wrote:

> Anyone from the mythtv development team planning to contact
them to work out
> a deal?

All Options are being discussed, but nothing has been decided at
this point.

> I would be willing to pay a modest fee yearly fee for the
service if they
> would continue it.

Personally so would I. The information has value to me, and it's
worth a few
dollars to me to have it.

I need the listings. I'd pay to download them or help work on a project
to provide listings to the community.

_______________________________________________

mythtv-users mailing list

mythtv-users [at] mythtv

http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

david.schmidt.in.dallas at gmail

Jun 20, 2007, 6:46 AM

Post #41 of 202 (11004 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

On 6/20/07, Daniel Kristjansson <danielk [at] cuymedia> wrote:
> On Wed, 2007-06-20 at 09:13 -0400, Bill wrote:
> > Anyone from the mythtv development team planning to contact them to work out
> > a deal?
>
> Don't panic!

Surely you jest!! This is my **Myth** system we're talking about here!! (-;

>
> They contacted Issac just before they went public.
>
> Some serious people are talking about licensing the data from
> TMS, but this will take a little time to work out. We have no
> idea of the number of MythTV users that use DataDirect listings,
> nor how much TMS charges for commercial access to their data
> stream.

Good to know, thanks. I concur with others that I would be willing to
pay a *reasonable* monthly or quarterly fee to get the same feed I get
now....

As far as number of users, I'd think TMS would know, since we, IIRC,
had to enter a Myth application code when creating our own Zap2It
IDs....

>
> Another option is to get the data directly from the stations
> themselves, this was done by some MythTV users in Sweden with
> much success. There are fewer stations there, but there are
> also many more MythTV users in North America who are willing
> to do some legwork.
>

As a programmer by trade, sounds impractical nationwide. To get local
programming, you'd have to have a (custom) scraper for every station
in every market....
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tim at p-a-a-i

Jun 20, 2007, 6:57 AM

Post #42 of 202 (11011 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

Hey how's the view up there on that pedestal? Can you see my house from
there or are the clouds obscuring your view?

Firstly, Zap2it wants it to die, they refused attempts by many of us to pay
them for a subscription to avoid the silly re-up every 3 months and to gain
slightly better customer support. They did not want our money, they
effectively told us to pound sand. Their data quality has sucked over the
past 6 months with lots of errors only on the data direct side. We are an
annoyance to them. Your snide remark that we are stealing the data is simply
plain old insulting. You CANT STEAL what is freely given.

Secondly, you might be so filthy disgustingly rich that you can buy a DVD
and throw it away constantly, but most of us that have kids RIP the DVD's
they watch so they don't destroy them. I also rip EVERY dvd I purchase so I
can use today's technology instead of schlepping over to the DVD player and
inserting a disc. I can select any of my DVD's from a menu throughout my
home and watch them instantly.

So maybe if you quit assuming that anyone that rips a dvd is a Thief, you
might understand that most of us don't want to be stuck in the 90's and like
having complete video on demand in our homes. I own over 500 DVD's every
one is Ripped and on my mythbackend server. My wife is happy we don't have
those ugly DVD's all over the house anymore but safe in boxes in storage.

As said earlier :

:Does not surprise me in the least. It costs them big $$ to purchase the
:info and we pirate the info for free (Yes I know they let us with the
:labs.) Its the same as people ripping DVDs to the hard drive. Another
:"harmless" illegal act that in the eyes of the Hollywood guys costs big
:bucks. We need to suck it up and pay for the info we use. Either that or
:go with one of the commercial software DVRs that include listings and
:then you are paying for it by purchasing the software.
:
:I never did understand the logic in ripping DVDs. After all I can rent
:one for $1/day and have yet to see one that I wanted to watch twice. If
:your kid cant get enough of Barney or whatever, buy the darn thing and
:support the industry.

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mythlist at michaelandholly

Jun 20, 2007, 7:00 AM

Post #43 of 202 (11036 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

At $500/month, or $6000 a year it would require 1200 subscribers
paying $5 year to break even...

I would think this is completely do-able?

I don't know just how many people there are out there running MythTV
but this would be pretty easy to put together.. and of course.. the
more people are willing to pay for the service, the number to break
even would be much less.

On Jun 20, 2007, at 9:41 AM, Cole Brodine wrote:

> On 6/20/07, Michael Jones <mythlist [at] michaelandholly> wrote:
> If we are unable to use Zap2It Labs for in it's current form, and
> Zap2It is not willing to create a "personal subscription" option,
> what's the possibility of creating a group to purchase the rights
> to the data as a "commercial" provider and provide it to the MythTV
> community for a low/modest subscription fee?
>
> I'd be willing to work with creating this company/group?
>
> I would guess this would depend on what Zap2it charges for the
> data? Could be rather pricey.
>
> On Jun 20, 2007, at 9:27 AM, Jim Scott wrote:
>
>> On 6/20/07, Greg Estabrooks < greg [at] phaze> wrote:
>> > Anyone from the mythtv development team planning to contact them
>> to work out
>> > a deal?
>>
>> All Options are being discussed, but nothing has been decided at
>> this point.
>>
>> > I would be willing to pay a modest fee yearly fee for the
>> service if they
>> > would continue it.
>>
>> Personally so would I. The information has value to me, and it's
>> worth a few
>> dollars to me to have it.
>>
>>
>> I need the listings. I'd pay to download them or help work on a
>> project to provide listings to the community.
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtv-users mailing list
>> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
>> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
> It's my understanding that they cost somewhere around $500 per
> month for a commercial license to there listings. I saw that one
> the Zap2it forums, so I'm not sure of the accuracy.
>
> I would pay or help create something that would get me the listings
> I need.
>
> Cole Brodine
>
> -------------------------------------------
> Visit My Website at http://www.brodine.com/
> Blog: http://rabbitinhiding.blogspot.com/
> ICQ: 5857320
> Skype: cbrodine
> yahoo: brodinec
> MSN: brodinec [at] yahoo
> -------------------------------------------
>
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aclose at gmail

Jun 20, 2007, 7:09 AM

Post #44 of 202 (11022 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

cbrodine at gmail

Jun 20, 2007, 7:11 AM

Post #45 of 202 (11016 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

On 6/20/07, Michael Jones <mythlist [at] michaelandholly> wrote:
>
> At $500/month, or $6000 a year it would require 1200 subscribers paying $5
> year to break even...
> I would think this is completely do-able?
>
> I don't know just how many people there are out there running MythTV but
> this would be pretty easy to put together.. and of course.. the more people
> are willing to pay for the service, the number to break even would be much
> less.
>
>
>
> I'm not sure what their commercial license says you are allowed to do with
the data. Hopefully you can redistribute as you please and then the $5 year
thing would be completely feasible. I think you would have to remember that
the servers and bandwidth to redistribute would have to be maintained and
paid for also. You might have to pay at least one person's salary yearly as
well. So you are probably looking at something much higher then $5 a year.

Hopefully Isaac or whomever they talked to can work something out. I'll
wait in the shadows to see what the developer's solution is.

Cole Brodine

-------------------------------------------
Visit My Website at http://www.brodine.com/
Blog: http://rabbitinhiding.blogspot.com/
ICQ: 5857320
Skype: cbrodine
yahoo: brodinec
MSN: brodinec [at] yahoo
-------------------------------------------

brian at interlinx

Jun 20, 2007, 7:14 AM

Post #46 of 202 (11016 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

On Wed, 2007-06-20 at 10:00 -0400, Michael Jones wrote:
> At $500/month, or $6000 a year it would require 1200 subscribers
> paying $5 year to break even...

Hrm. Something tells me that it's really not this simple. Surely the
TMS bean counters have come to the conclusion that the number of users
the data satisfies is relative to it's worth.

Surely they have not missed the boat on the fact that a national
newspaper like USA Today or The NY Times satisfies a much bigger
subscriber base than a small 500 subscriber newspaper.

Surely they have not ignored the "per seat" model than almost everyone
selling a single reproducible copy of something is using.

Maybe I'm wrong, but the basic greedy nature of mankind and corporation
makes me think I am right.

But let's suppose somebody does set up an amicable (to both TMS and
subscriber base) agreement to collect subscriber fees and pay TMS.
What's to stop the same abuse that is going on currently from
continuing? How is this "somebody" going to curb it any better than
Zap2It could? Surely license (from TMS) to the data does not include
the right for the licencee to allow re-distribution by it's customers.

So now not only will this "somebody" need to collect enough to pay for
it's license to TMS, they will have to collect enough to build up a
legal fund to prosecute the abusers.

One can see why Zap2It wants to stop dealing with consumers.

b.

--
My other computer is your Microsoft Windows server.

Brian J. Murrell

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wpoland at gmail

Jun 20, 2007, 7:16 AM

Post #47 of 202 (11011 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

Sounds like we need some help from...hmmmm Google?

Google, sounds like a nice fit for you! Adwords + TV Listings?

I think that would work.. anyone work for google?
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david.schmidt.in.dallas at gmail

Jun 20, 2007, 7:17 AM

Post #48 of 202 (10997 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

On 6/20/07, Cole Brodine <cbrodine [at] gmail> wrote:
> I'm not sure what their commercial license says you are allowed to do with
> the data. Hopefully you can redistribute as you please and then the $5 year
> thing would be completely feasible. I think you would have to remember that
> the servers and bandwidth to redistribute would have to be maintained and
> paid for also. You might have to pay at least one person's salary yearly as
> well. So you are probably looking at something much higher then $5 a year.

$5/year is nothing. I was thinking something in the $5/quarter to
$5/month range.

>
> Hopefully Isaac or whomever they talked to can work something out. I'll
> wait in the shadows to see what the developer's solution is.
>

And hopefully something we can get online before the (literal) drop
dead date of 9/1!!
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mahoover at ispaceonline

Jun 20, 2007, 7:21 AM

Post #49 of 202 (11024 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

> From: William Munson <william_munson [at] bellsouth>
>
> I never did understand the logic in ripping DVDs. After all I can rent
> one for $1/day and have yet to see one that I wanted to watch twice. If
> your kid cant get enough of Barney or whatever, buy the darn thing and
> support the industry.

Haven't seen what a kid can do a DVD? It's a lot nicer to rip the DVD to
myth and just let them select it from the menu whenever they want to watch
it. Not to mention the lazy factor of not having to get up and actually
put the DVD in everytime you want to watch something....:)
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pc-mythtv07a at crowcastle

Jun 20, 2007, 7:22 AM

Post #50 of 202 (11010 views)
Permalink

Re: Zap2it Labs Shutting Down? [In reply to]

On Wed, 2007-06-20 at 09:30 -0400, Daniel Kristjansson wrote:
> Another option is to get the data directly from the stations
> themselves, this was done by some MythTV users in Sweden with
> much success. There are fewer stations there, but there are
> also many more MythTV users in North America who are willing
> to do some legwork.

Yup. I've already done that for Comedy Central, because the zap2it
listings often lack the episode information.

It shouldn't really be that hard to get listings for all the major
channels. Getting the local information for networks, independent
channels, and such is more of a challenge. (This might be a good place
for a bounty system--someone who is good at writing scrapers might be
willing to code one for your favorite local channel for price.)

It would be possible to scrape the channel lineup from the various cable
and satellite web sites, and to get the broadcast lineup from
antennaweb.

In fact, setting up a competitor to zap2it seems fairly doable, whether
it's letting everyone gather their own listings, or putting together a
service, it's certainly doable.

You know, this is simply a matter of making use of data that's freely
available on the web already. Isn't that what Google prides themselves
in doing? Perhaps we should encourage them to create a TV listing
database?

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