Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

CielPlus Sky Digibox (UK) Addon decoder card.

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max at mjhodgson

Mar 17, 2007, 11:26 AM

Post #1 of 13 (1375 views)
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CielPlus Sky Digibox (UK) Addon decoder card.

Hi

Has anyone tried a CielPlus card in a Sky Digibox and got it to work with
MythTV.

http://cielplus.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=28

Apparently you can download HD content live off Sky, BBC etc just by using
a standard Skybox.

I would be very interested in any details of success.

mjh

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mythtv at dsl

Mar 18, 2007, 2:54 AM

Post #2 of 13 (1302 views)
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Re: CielPlus Sky Digibox (UK) Addon decoder card. [In reply to]

Max Hodgson wrote:
> Hi
>
> Has anyone tried a CielPlus card in a Sky Digibox and got it to work with
> MythTV.
>
> http://cielplus.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=28
>
> Apparently you can download HD content live off Sky, BBC etc just by using
> a standard Skybox.
>
> I would be very interested in any details of success.
>
> mjh
>
>
>

Thanks for posting this. I didn't know that was even possible. That
would be a great combination a Sky box, this card and Myth :-)

It's a pity I don't have one of the supported receivers or else I would
give it a try. I don't think there is anyway to get it to work with Myth
or even Linux unless someone writes a driver for it. That would depend
on how open the makers are at providing the data format used to
communicate with the card though the USB port. The fact that there is
only one piece of software on Windows that it currently works with it
doesn't look good, although they do say they are working with other
developers.

One thing that worries me is the disclaimer about Sky being able to
update there software and prevent the card from working in the future
although they do seem to suggest that it is a hardware solution so
doesn't depend on the firmware used? You can bet that if Sky _can_ break
it they will!!

Anyone got an Amstrad Sky box for sale :-). I wonder what the chance of
getting a free same card for development purposes is ;-)

Paul H.

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linux.luser at myrealbox

Mar 18, 2007, 5:41 AM

Post #3 of 13 (1296 views)
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Re: CielPlus Sky Digibox (UK) Addon decoder card. [In reply to]

On 17 Mar 2007, at 18:26, Max Hodgson wrote:
>
> Has anyone tried a CielPlus card in a Sky Digibox and got it to
> work with
> MythTV.
>
> http://cielplus.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=28
>
> Apparently you can download HD content live off Sky, BBC etc just
> by using
> a standard Skybox.

I believe that the most common way of recording Sky HD content is to
use a DVB-S tuner card with a 3rd-party CAM module and your Sky
subscription card.

You need to put your subscription card into the Sky box periodically
to get updates, but I believe that otherwise the method works well. I
heard that the majority of HD content pirated onto the UK binaries
groups is obtained this way; the setup is fairly well-documented
under Windows, but I am not aware of anyone doing this under Linux.

Here's a thread in which I researched this myself: <http://
www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/241618>
Note that a good number of the free channels are "free to air" now
(not just "free to view") and so are unencrypted. This includes BBC
HD, so you can record that without the hassle of the CAM module or
Sky card, and a number of people here are doing so. I believe that
even the cheapest of DVB-S cards can cope with HD, as they just dump
the MPEG stream to disk.

It looks like you need additional software to interface with the
Cielplus product you mention. Is such software available under Linux?

Stroller.

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max at mjhodgson

Mar 20, 2007, 11:44 AM

Post #4 of 13 (1277 views)
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Re: CielPlus Sky Digibox (UK) Addon decoder card. [In reply to]

I emailed sales [at] cielplus and got the following reply:

>I believe that there are a growing number of software developers who have
>taken on this task. I have copied them in on this email and no doubt they
>can keep you informed of their progress.
>
>Kind Regards
>
>Cielplus

It was cc'd to a couple of other guys. So you never know, linux drivers may
appear.

I also notice from the review in this months What Satellite? mag, that it
also can download listings from the Sky EPG to the PC too. From what it
looks like it basically sends mpeg down the USB cable and probably just
needs some form of driver to be able to read it.

mjh

At 09:54 18/03/2007, you wrote:
>Max Hodgson wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > Has anyone tried a CielPlus card in a Sky Digibox and got it to work with
> > MythTV.
> >
> > http://cielplus.com/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=28
> >
> > Apparently you can download HD content live off Sky, BBC etc just by using
> > a standard Skybox.
> >
> > I would be very interested in any details of success.
> >
> > mjh
> >
> >
> >
>
>Thanks for posting this. I didn't know that was even possible. That
>would be a great combination a Sky box, this card and Myth :-)
>
>It's a pity I don't have one of the supported receivers or else I would
>give it a try. I don't think there is anyway to get it to work with Myth
>or even Linux unless someone writes a driver for it. That would depend
>on how open the makers are at providing the data format used to
>communicate with the card though the USB port. The fact that there is
>only one piece of software on Windows that it currently works with it
>doesn't look good, although they do say they are working with other
>developers.
>
>One thing that worries me is the disclaimer about Sky being able to
>update there software and prevent the card from working in the future
>although they do seem to suggest that it is a hardware solution so
>doesn't depend on the firmware used? You can bet that if Sky _can_ break
>it they will!!
>
>Anyone got an Amstrad Sky box for sale :-). I wonder what the chance of
>getting a free same card for development purposes is ;-)
>
>Paul H.
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>mythtv-users mailing list
>mythtv-users [at] mythtv
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ray at brambletree

Mar 21, 2007, 5:58 AM

Post #5 of 13 (1273 views)
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Re: CielPlus Sky Digibox (UK) Addon decoder card. [In reply to]

> Max Hodgson wrote:
>
> I emailed sales [at] cielplus and got the following reply:
>
>
> >I believe that there are a growing number of software developers who
> >have taken on this task. I have copied them in on this email and no
> >doubt they can keep you informed of their progress.
> >
> >Kind Regards
> >
> >Cielplus
>
> It was cc'd to a couple of other guys. So you never know,
> linux drivers may
> appear.
>
> I also notice from the review in this months What Satellite?
> mag, that it
> also can download listings from the Sky EPG to the PC too.
> From what it
> looks like it basically sends mpeg down the USB cable and
> probably just
> needs some form of driver to be able to read it.
>
> mjh

I mailed them also and got the same reply, along with the offer of some
windows code should I want it - unfortunately I don't have the skills to
do add value.
I really hope something develops here as it could also resolve the
'holey' xml listings we have to endure in the UK, until of course sky
force a firmware download and break everything!
Is it worth setting a 'bounty' for some development?

Ray

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alanh at fairlite

Jul 17, 2007, 1:15 AM

Post #6 of 13 (1147 views)
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Re: CielPlus Sky Digibox (UK) Addon decoder card. [In reply to]

On Tue, 2007-07-17 at 15:32 +1200, Nick Rout wrote:
> I am intrigued to know if this would work with a New Zealand Sky decoder.
> Some of the local ones are PACE, but there are other brands too.
>
> Some questions:
>
> 1. Am I right in saying that these cards intercept the mpeg2 stream after
> the sky box has unencrypted it?

That's how I understand it Nick.

> 2. It sounds from what I have read that you then need to filter PIDS in
> software to see the channels you want. Does this mean that the sky box
> unencrypts the whole stream an a multiplex and then filters PIDS (and
> cielplus gets the stream before filtering?)

That's what I believe.

> 3. If so this would seem more amenable to implementation as a DVB style
> device than a V4L type device.

That's true, but writing a DVB kernel driver is probably no worse than a
V4L driver.

> 4. Alternatively it may be quite easy to use the regular linux DVB tools
> that can already filter PIDS etc. Can't remember the particular commands
> at this moment.

Yup, sounds good.

Alan.

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alanh at fairlite

Jul 17, 2007, 1:08 PM

Post #7 of 13 (1135 views)
Permalink

Re: CielPlus Sky Digibox (UK) Addon decoder card. [In reply to]

On Tue, 2007-07-17 at 15:32 +1200, Nick Rout wrote:
> I am intrigued to know if this would work with a New Zealand Sky decoder.
> Some of the local ones are PACE, but there are other brands too.
>
> Some questions:
>
> 1. Am I right in saying that these cards intercept the mpeg2 stream after
> the sky box has unencrypted it?
>
> 2. It sounds from what I have read that you then need to filter PIDS in
> software to see the channels you want. Does this mean that the sky box
> unencrypts the whole stream an a multiplex and then filters PIDS (and
> cielplus gets the stream before filtering?)
>
> 3. If so this would seem more amenable to implementation as a DVB style
> device than a V4L type device.

Having looked at the current DVB drivers, it does look like a perfect
match.

The DVB USB layer already has the firmware uploading code for Cypress
chips, so that part is dealt with. We could also use one of the existing
drivers to base things off.

But, and it's a big but, without the Cypress firmware for this device,
we're stuck. As all the other DVB cards have firmware. I've asked
Cielplus for this, but haven't heard back yet.

Alan.

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nick at rout

Jul 17, 2007, 4:58 PM

Post #8 of 13 (1123 views)
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Re: CielPlus Sky Digibox (UK) Addon decoder card. [In reply to]

On Wed, July 18, 2007 8:08 am, Alan Hourihane wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-07-17 at 15:32 +1200, Nick Rout wrote:
>> I am intrigued to know if this would work with a New Zealand Sky
>> decoder.
>> Some of the local ones are PACE, but there are other brands too.
>>
>> Some questions:
>>
>> 1. Am I right in saying that these cards intercept the mpeg2 stream
>> after
>> the sky box has unencrypted it?
>>
>> 2. It sounds from what I have read that you then need to filter PIDS in
>> software to see the channels you want. Does this mean that the sky box
>> unencrypts the whole stream an a multiplex and then filters PIDS (and
>> cielplus gets the stream before filtering?)
>>
>> 3. If so this would seem more amenable to implementation as a DVB style
>> device than a V4L type device.
>
> Having looked at the current DVB drivers, it does look like a perfect
> match.
>
> The DVB USB layer already has the firmware uploading code for Cypress
> chips, so that part is dealt with. We could also use one of the existing
> drivers to base things off.
>
> But, and it's a big but, without the Cypress firmware for this device,
> we're stuck. As all the other DVB cards have firmware. I've asked
> Cielplus for this, but haven't heard back yet.
>
> Alan.

It seems odd that after one post, and with a number of questions
outstanding on the thread, they haven't responded to the list further.

--
Nick Rout

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alanh at fairlite

Jul 18, 2007, 1:09 AM

Post #9 of 13 (1117 views)
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Re: CielPlus Sky Digibox (UK) Addon decoder card. [In reply to]

On Wed, 2007-07-18 at 11:58 +1200, Nick Rout wrote:
> On Wed, July 18, 2007 8:08 am, Alan Hourihane wrote:
> > On Tue, 2007-07-17 at 15:32 +1200, Nick Rout wrote:
> >> I am intrigued to know if this would work with a New Zealand Sky
> >> decoder.
> >> Some of the local ones are PACE, but there are other brands too.
> >>
> >> Some questions:
> >>
> >> 1. Am I right in saying that these cards intercept the mpeg2 stream
> >> after
> >> the sky box has unencrypted it?
> >>
> >> 2. It sounds from what I have read that you then need to filter PIDS in
> >> software to see the channels you want. Does this mean that the sky box
> >> unencrypts the whole stream an a multiplex and then filters PIDS (and
> >> cielplus gets the stream before filtering?)
> >>
> >> 3. If so this would seem more amenable to implementation as a DVB style
> >> device than a V4L type device.
> >
> > Having looked at the current DVB drivers, it does look like a perfect
> > match.
> >
> > The DVB USB layer already has the firmware uploading code for Cypress
> > chips, so that part is dealt with. We could also use one of the existing
> > drivers to base things off.
> >
> > But, and it's a big but, without the Cypress firmware for this device,
> > we're stuck. As all the other DVB cards have firmware. I've asked
> > Cielplus for this, but haven't heard back yet.
> >
> > Alan.
>
> It seems odd that after one post, and with a number of questions
> outstanding on the thread, they haven't responded to the list further.

I think they'd rather deal with the individuals that's contacted them as
interested. I do seem to be getting replies so they're still about.

Alan.

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nick at rout

Jul 18, 2007, 3:20 AM

Post #10 of 13 (1115 views)
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Re: CielPlus Sky Digibox (UK) Addon decoder card. [In reply to]

Alan Hourihane wrote:
>
>> It seems odd that after one post, and with a number of questions
>> outstanding on the thread, they haven't responded to the list further.
>>
>
> I think they'd rather deal with the individuals that's contacted them as
> interested. I do seem to be getting replies so they're still about.
>
> Alan.
>
> __
Thats good.

I do kinda wonder what Sky seems to think of these devices. It seems to
me, that if they work how i think they do, there is the possibility to
watch as many different channels in your house as you can squeeze down
the sire to various players. Around here "Multiroom" - in reality just
an extra decoder - costs money - just so the kids can watch music and
cartoons while parents watch the drama.
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ray at brambletree

Jul 18, 2007, 5:13 AM

Post #11 of 13 (1114 views)
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Re: CielPlus Sky Digibox (UK) Addon decoder card. [In reply to]

Nick Rout wrote on 18 July 2007 11:20:
> I do kinda wonder what Sky seems to think of these devices. It seems to
> me, that if they work how i think they do, there is the possibility to
> watch as many different channels in your house as you can squeeze down
> the sire to various players. Around here "Multiroom" - in reality just
> an extra decoder - costs money - just so the kids can watch music and
> cartoons while parents watch the drama.

Surely you will only be able to pull the channels of any given mux? Your LNB
cant tune to every mux.

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antdaniel at gmail

Jul 19, 2007, 4:34 AM

Post #12 of 13 (1093 views)
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Re: CielPlus Sky Digibox (UK) Addon decoder card. [In reply to]

On 18/07/07, Razza <ray [at] brambletree> wrote:
> Nick Rout wrote on 18 July 2007 11:20:
> > I do kinda wonder what Sky seems to think of these devices. It seems to
> > me, that if they work how i think they do, there is the possibility to
> > watch as many different channels in your house as you can squeeze down
> > the sire to various players. Around here "Multiroom" - in reality just
> > an extra decoder - costs money - just so the kids can watch music and
> > cartoons while parents watch the drama.
>
> Surely you will only be able to pull the channels of any given mux? Your LNB
> cant tune to every mux.
>

Most recent Sky installs should have a dual or Quad LNB, but (from
what I understand) that would mean two decoders and two ceilplus
cards.
You would be able to record multiple channels on one mux, I don't know
how the mux is done in Sky, but I suspect this is what makes the
multi-streams for various channel feeds (multi Sky-News, 15 min start
times for movies, etc) anyone know if a mux covers more than one
channel?

Channel changes are done via the UHF with a built in remote, much like
the hacked TiVo changer that did the rounds.

I am extremly interested in this, is a better solution then DVB-S
cards with a Dragon CAM, and not suceptable to Sky encryption changes,
but I wonder if Sky have a way of upgrading the firmware and closing
the socket down?

I can't quite tell from the description, but doesn anyone know if this
can do Box Office subscription, etc.?

Here's hoping they can install it, test it on the Grundig box as I
suspect it might be the widest used box as it has an svideo output. If
I can get that I would probably get one and start playing around with
it myself.
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mythtv at dsl

Jul 19, 2007, 2:50 PM

Post #13 of 13 (1084 views)
Permalink

Re: CielPlus Sky Digibox (UK) Addon decoder card. [In reply to]

Ant Daniel wrote:
> On 18/07/07, Razza <ray [at] brambletree> wrote:
>
>> Nick Rout wrote on 18 July 2007 11:20:
>>
>>> I do kinda wonder what Sky seems to think of these devices. It seems to
>>> me, that if they work how i think they do, there is the possibility to
>>> watch as many different channels in your house as you can squeeze down
>>> the sire to various players. Around here "Multiroom" - in reality just
>>> an extra decoder - costs money - just so the kids can watch music and
>>> cartoons while parents watch the drama.
>>>
>> Surely you will only be able to pull the channels of any given mux? Your LNB
>> cant tune to every mux.
>>
>>
>
> Most recent Sky installs should have a dual or Quad LNB, but (from
> what I understand) that would mean two decoders and two ceilplus
> cards.
> You would be able to record multiple channels on one mux, I don't know
> how the mux is done in Sky, but I suspect this is what makes the
> multi-streams for various channel feeds (multi Sky-News, 15 min start
> times for movies, etc) anyone know if a mux covers more than one
> channel?
>
>
This web page tells you which channels are on which transponder.
http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/skyuk.html

> Channel changes are done via the UHF with a built in remote, much like
> the hacked TiVo changer that did the rounds.
>
> I am extremly interested in this, is a better solution then DVB-S
> cards with a Dragon CAM, and not suceptable to Sky encryption changes,
> but I wonder if Sky have a way of upgrading the firmware and closing
> the socket down?
>
>

All Sky are bothered about is profits and since they are not loosing
any money from it, on the contrary they could in fact make more money
because anyone using the card would probably take out an extra
multi-room subscription at �10 per month, I don't think they will be too
bothered.

> I can't quite tell from the description, but doesn anyone know if this
> can do Box Office subscription, etc.?
>
>

My understanding is that it provides the entire TS from a transponder,
presumably after any encoding has been removed, so you should be able to
record any channel that you viewing card has the rights to. So if you
order a Box Office movie then I would think you can record it like any
other.

> Here's hoping they can install it, test it on the Grundig box as I
> suspect it might be the widest used box as it has an svideo output. If
> I can get that I would probably get one and start playing around with
> it myself.
>
>
It seems to only work on the older Pace and Amstrad boxes. I did read
somewhere that the reason for that is the older receivers have two
separate chips that talk to each other over the same bus that the
expansion interface is connected to so as a result the raw data stream
is available from the expansion slot. In newer receivers these two chips
are merged into only one chip that does both functions and as a result
the raw stream isn't available.

Paul H.

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