Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

HDMI Capture

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steve.p.daniels at googlemail

Sep 12, 2006, 4:37 AM

Post #1 of 18 (5929 views)
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HDMI Capture

Just seen this in the register:
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/12/blackmagic_hdmi_editing/
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
Reckon something like that could be used in linux as a capture device for
myth maybe?

Please feel free to ignore if this is a rubbish idea..

Steve Daniels

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andrew.lyon at gmail

Sep 12, 2006, 4:36 AM

Post #2 of 18 (5805 views)
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Re: HDMI Capture [In reply to]

> Just seen this in the register:
> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/12/blackmagic_hdmi_editing/
> http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
> Reckon something like that could be used in linux as a capture device for
> myth maybe?
>
> Please feel free to ignore if this is a rubbish idea..
>
> Steve Daniels

With the necessary drivers and mythtv support it almost certainly
could be used, but it only supports hdmi not hdcp, and by definition
that will always be the case.

But as a capture device for a digital camcorder etc it would be ideal.

Andy
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genestapp at gmail

Sep 12, 2006, 6:04 AM

Post #3 of 18 (5796 views)
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Re: HDMI Capture [In reply to]

Steve Daniels wrote:
> Just seen this in the register:
> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/12/blackmagic_hdmi_editing/
> http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
> Reckon something like that could be used in linux as a capture device for
> myth maybe?
>
> Please feel free to ignore if this is a rubbish idea..
>
> Steve Daniels
>
>
ooohh aaahhh that could be a winner. Looking at the specs and reading
the info page at blackmagic, I think it only does software
compression/conversion so I would think at minimum a dual core processor
would be needed for this puppy. Still though if we can get the drivers
ported to linux this could work I think.
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genestapp at gmail

Sep 12, 2006, 6:10 AM

Post #4 of 18 (5802 views)
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Re: HDMI Capture [In reply to]

Andrew Lyon wrote:
>> Just seen this in the register:
>> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/12/blackmagic_hdmi_editing/
>> http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
>> Reckon something like that could be used in linux as a capture device for
>> myth maybe?
>>
>> Please feel free to ignore if this is a rubbish idea..
>>
>> Steve Daniels
>>
>
> With the necessary drivers and mythtv support it almost certainly
> could be used, but it only supports hdmi not hdcp, and by definition
> that will always be the case.
>
> But as a capture device for a digital camcorder etc it would be ideal.
>
> Andy
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
that may be true, but so far you can still get HD through uncompressed
feeds so I don't see that as a negative yet as far as the cable boxes I
am using go. With the three pci-e slots I have extra on my mobo and the
dual core i'm running this would come in very handy. Since there isn't
another option at the moment for those of who unfortunately have 5c
enabled on our HD channels this is very interesting to me.
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adeffs.mythtv at gmail

Sep 12, 2006, 6:18 AM

Post #5 of 18 (5807 views)
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Re: HDMI Capture [In reply to]

On 9/12/06, Gene Stapp <genestapp [at] gmail> wrote:
> Andrew Lyon wrote:
> >> Just seen this in the register:
> >> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/12/blackmagic_hdmi_editing/
> >> http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
> >> Reckon something like that could be used in linux as a capture device for
> >> myth maybe?
> >>
> >> Please feel free to ignore if this is a rubbish idea..
> >>
> >> Steve Daniels
> >>
> >
> > With the necessary drivers and mythtv support it almost certainly
> > could be used, but it only supports hdmi not hdcp, and by definition
> > that will always be the case.
> >
> > But as a capture device for a digital camcorder etc it would be ideal.
> >
> that may be true, but so far you can still get HD through uncompressed
> feeds so I don't see that as a negative yet as far as the cable boxes I
> am using go. With the three pci-e slots I have extra on my mobo and the
> dual core i'm running this would come in very handy. Since there isn't
> another option at the moment for those of who unfortunately have 5c
> enabled on our HD channels this is very interesting to me.

My HDTV doesn't have HDCP either.

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
MSRP is $250.
HD Format Support 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080i50, 1080i59.94, 720p30,
720p59.94, 720p60
Installation PCI Express 1 lane, compatible with 1,4,8,16 lane PCI
Express slots.
Intensity is due October 15th.

Doesn't mention hardware encoding, so it looks like a good CPU will be
needed if it is to be used for Myth.

--
Steve
Before you ask, read the FAQ!
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions
then search the Wiki, and this list,
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/
Mailinglist etiquette -
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list at onnow

Sep 12, 2006, 6:26 AM

Post #6 of 18 (5800 views)
Permalink

Re: HDMI Capture [In reply to]

That card looks good. So, I have an HD sat dish receiver that has
HDMI output. Can I theoretically run that into this, use a blaster
and be done?
With drivers, myth support etc....?
Looks like this type of card is what we need to start seeing for HD capture.
Or is this not that type of card?

Mark

Quoting Steven Adeff <adeffs.mythtv [at] gmail>:

> On 9/12/06, Gene Stapp <genestapp [at] gmail> wrote:
>> Andrew Lyon wrote:
>> >> Just seen this in the register:
>> >> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/12/blackmagic_hdmi_editing/
>> >> http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
>> >> Reckon something like that could be used in linux as a capture device for
>> >> myth maybe?
>> >>
>> >> Please feel free to ignore if this is a rubbish idea..
>> >>
>> >> Steve Daniels
>> >>
>> >
>> > With the necessary drivers and mythtv support it almost certainly
>> > could be used, but it only supports hdmi not hdcp, and by definition
>> > that will always be the case.
>> >
>> > But as a capture device for a digital camcorder etc it would be ideal.
>> >
>> that may be true, but so far you can still get HD through uncompressed
>> feeds so I don't see that as a negative yet as far as the cable boxes I
>> am using go. With the three pci-e slots I have extra on my mobo and the
>> dual core i'm running this would come in very handy. Since there isn't
>> another option at the moment for those of who unfortunately have 5c
>> enabled on our HD channels this is very interesting to me.
>
> My HDTV doesn't have HDCP either.
>
> http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
> MSRP is $250.
> HD Format Support 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080i50, 1080i59.94, 720p30,
> 720p59.94, 720p60
> Installation PCI Express 1 lane, compatible with 1,4,8,16 lane PCI
> Express slots.
> Intensity is due October 15th.
>
> Doesn't mention hardware encoding, so it looks like a good CPU will be
> needed if it is to be used for Myth.
>
> --
> Steve
> Before you ask, read the FAQ!
> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions
> then search the Wiki, and this list,
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/
> Mailinglist etiquette -
> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List_etiquette
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

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adeffs.mythtv at gmail

Sep 12, 2006, 6:33 AM

Post #7 of 18 (5786 views)
Permalink

Re: HDMI Capture [In reply to]

On 9/12/06, list [at] onnow <list [at] onnow> wrote:
> Quoting Steven Adeff <adeffs.mythtv [at] gmail>:
>
> > On 9/12/06, Gene Stapp <genestapp [at] gmail> wrote:
> >> Andrew Lyon wrote:
> >> >> Just seen this in the register:
> >> >> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/12/blackmagic_hdmi_editing/
> >> >> http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
> >> >> Reckon something like that could be used in linux as a capture device for
> >> >> myth maybe?
> >> >>
> >> >> Please feel free to ignore if this is a rubbish idea..
> >> >>
> >> >> Steve Daniels
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > With the necessary drivers and mythtv support it almost certainly
> >> > could be used, but it only supports hdmi not hdcp, and by definition
> >> > that will always be the case.
> >> >
> >> > But as a capture device for a digital camcorder etc it would be ideal.
> >> >
> >> that may be true, but so far you can still get HD through uncompressed
> >> feeds so I don't see that as a negative yet as far as the cable boxes I
> >> am using go. With the three pci-e slots I have extra on my mobo and the
> >> dual core i'm running this would come in very handy. Since there isn't
> >> another option at the moment for those of who unfortunately have 5c
> >> enabled on our HD channels this is very interesting to me.
> >
> > My HDTV doesn't have HDCP either.
> >
> > http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
> > MSRP is $250.
> > HD Format Support 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080i50, 1080i59.94, 720p30,
> > 720p59.94, 720p60
> > Installation PCI Express 1 lane, compatible with 1,4,8,16 lane PCI
> > Express slots.
> > Intensity is due October 15th.
> >
> > Doesn't mention hardware encoding, so it looks like a good CPU will be
> > needed if it is to be used for Myth.
>
> That card looks good. So, I have an HD sat dish receiver that has
> HDMI output. Can I theoretically run that into this, use a blaster
> and be done?

theoretically, yes.

> With drivers, myth support etc....?

OS X is supported, so if you could run mythbackend on OSX... Or linux drivers.

> Looks like this type of card is what we need to start seeing for HD capture.
> Or is this not that type of card?

You would still need to do software compression, which would take a
lot of CPU. I'm waiting for a Hauppage PVR-HD, though I doubt that
will happen...

--
Steve
Before you ask, read the FAQ!
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions
then search the Wiki, and this list,
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/
Mailinglist etiquette -
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List_etiquette
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list at onnow

Sep 12, 2006, 6:47 AM

Post #8 of 18 (5788 views)
Permalink

Re: HDMI Capture [In reply to]

The Mac duals etc.. would probably have no problem with the
compression. A hefty Linux box would also be do-able. Dual and Quad
core, etc....

This is what I want to have running eventually. I will watch for
development of it for sure.

Mark

Quoting Steven Adeff <adeffs.mythtv [at] gmail>:

> On 9/12/06, list [at] onnow <list [at] onnow> wrote:
>> Quoting Steven Adeff <adeffs.mythtv [at] gmail>:
>>
>> > On 9/12/06, Gene Stapp <genestapp [at] gmail> wrote:
>> >> Andrew Lyon wrote:
>> >> >> Just seen this in the register:
>> >> >> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/12/blackmagic_hdmi_editing/
>> >> >> http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
>> >> >> Reckon something like that could be used in linux as a
>> capture device for
>> >> >> myth maybe?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Please feel free to ignore if this is a rubbish idea..
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Steve Daniels
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > With the necessary drivers and mythtv support it almost certainly
>> >> > could be used, but it only supports hdmi not hdcp, and by definition
>> >> > that will always be the case.
>> >> >
>> >> > But as a capture device for a digital camcorder etc it would be ideal.
>> >> >
>> >> that may be true, but so far you can still get HD through uncompressed
>> >> feeds so I don't see that as a negative yet as far as the cable boxes I
>> >> am using go. With the three pci-e slots I have extra on my mobo and the
>> >> dual core i'm running this would come in very handy. Since there isn't
>> >> another option at the moment for those of who unfortunately have 5c
>> >> enabled on our HD channels this is very interesting to me.
>> >
>> > My HDTV doesn't have HDCP either.
>> >
>> > http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
>> > MSRP is $250.
>> > HD Format Support 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080i50, 1080i59.94, 720p30,
>> > 720p59.94, 720p60
>> > Installation PCI Express 1 lane, compatible with 1,4,8,16 lane PCI
>> > Express slots.
>> > Intensity is due October 15th.
>> >
>> > Doesn't mention hardware encoding, so it looks like a good CPU will be
>> > needed if it is to be used for Myth.
>>
>> That card looks good. So, I have an HD sat dish receiver that has
>> HDMI output. Can I theoretically run that into this, use a blaster
>> and be done?
>
> theoretically, yes.
>
>> With drivers, myth support etc....?
>
> OS X is supported, so if you could run mythbackend on OSX... Or
> linux drivers.
>
>> Looks like this type of card is what we need to start seeing for HD capture.
>> Or is this not that type of card?
>
> You would still need to do software compression, which would take a
> lot of CPU. I'm waiting for a Hauppage PVR-HD, though I doubt that
> will happen...
>
> --
> Steve
> Before you ask, read the FAQ!
> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions
> then search the Wiki, and this list,
> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/
> Mailinglist etiquette -
> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List_etiquette
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

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Dibblahmythml0015 at pendor

Sep 12, 2006, 6:48 AM

Post #9 of 18 (5799 views)
Permalink

Re: HDMI Capture [In reply to]

Gene Stapp wrote:
> Steve Daniels wrote:
>> Just seen this in the register:
>> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/12/blackmagic_hdmi_editing/
>> http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
>> Reckon something like that could be used in linux as a capture device for
>> myth maybe?
>>
>> Please feel free to ignore if this is a rubbish idea..
>>
>> Steve Daniels
>>
>>
> ooohh aaahhh that could be a winner. Looking at the specs and reading
> the info page at blackmagic, I think it only does software
> compression/conversion so I would think at minimum a dual core processor
> would be needed for this puppy. Still though if we can get the drivers
> ported to linux this could work I think.

Isn't dual-core pretty much a requirement for just HD
_playback_? Therefore real-time HD encoding just isn't going
to happen with current hardware?

Cheers,

Allan.
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gr at gr5

Sep 12, 2006, 6:52 AM

Post #10 of 18 (5792 views)
Permalink

Re: HDMI Capture [In reply to]

> >> >> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/12/blackmagic_hdmi_editing/
> >> >> http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
> >> >> Reckon something like that could be used in linux as a capture device for
> >> >> myth maybe?

Umm -- how big is your hard drive?
720p would be 165MB per second and 594 GB for a one hour show
1080i would be 187MB per second and 670 GB for a one hour show

I don't personally know anyone with a computer that can compress those streams at speed although I assume all the local TV stations
have a bank of computers to do that.

- George Roberts
http://gr5.org

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adeffs.mythtv at gmail

Sep 12, 2006, 7:05 AM

Post #11 of 18 (5795 views)
Permalink

Re: HDMI Capture [In reply to]

On 9/12/06, Allan Stirling <Dibblahmythml0015 [at] pendor> wrote:
> Isn't dual-core pretty much a requirement for just HD
> _playback_?

No, just a fast enough single core. An Athlon64 3200+ does fine, a
3000+ would probably work as well.

On 9/12/06, George Roberts <gr [at] gr5> wrote:
> Umm -- how big is your hard drive?
> 720p would be 165MB per second and 594 GB for a one hour show
> 1080i would be 187MB per second and 670 GB for a one hour show
>
> I don't personally know anyone with a computer that can compress those streams at
> speed although I assume all the local TV stations
> have a bank of computers to do that.

They use dedicated hardware with DSP's to do their real-time encoding.
like,
http://www.envivio.com/products/bshdenc_4caster_hd3.php
http://www.optibase.com/Content.aspx?id=1681
http://www.telairity.com/
http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/features.jsp?model_id=MDL101391

--
Steve
Before you ask, read the FAQ!
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions
then search the Wiki, and this list,
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/
Mailinglist etiquette -
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List_etiquette
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teething12 at hotmail

Sep 12, 2006, 7:13 AM

Post #12 of 18 (5798 views)
Permalink

Re: HDMI Capture [In reply to]

Allan Stirling wrote:
> Isn't dual-core pretty much a requirement for just HD
> _playback_? Therefore real-time HD encoding just isn't going
> to happen with current hardware?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Allan
I play 1080i back just fine on my Athlon 3000+ Venice Core at about 60%
CPU on an ATI card at about 64% CPU.

Lee

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gwilford at gmail

Sep 12, 2006, 7:26 AM

Post #13 of 18 (5799 views)
Permalink

Re: HDMI Capture [In reply to]

On 12/09/06, Steve Daniels <steve.p.daniels [at] googlemail> wrote:
> Just seen this in the register:
> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/12/blackmagic_hdmi_editing/
> http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
> Reckon something like that could be used in linux as a capture device for
> myth maybe?
>
> Please feel free to ignore if this is a rubbish idea..

So presumably, it may be possible to capture off-air HD in the UK?

Say, taking the component output of a SkyHD box, converting it to HDMI
using something like this:
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3569 and then throwing it
at the intensity card... ?

I'm stuck with SD on NTL and a PVR350 right now but this does sound
interesting...

Cheers,
Wilf.
--
Me [at] googl | MythTV blog: http://mezzanines.blogspot.com/
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genestapp at gmail

Sep 17, 2006, 10:52 PM

Post #14 of 18 (5738 views)
Permalink

Re: HDMI Capture [In reply to]

Graeme Wilford wrote:
> On 12/09/06, Steve Daniels <steve.p.daniels [at] googlemail> wrote:
>
>> Just seen this in the register:
>> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/12/blackmagic_hdmi_editing/
>> http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
>> Reckon something like that could be used in linux as a capture device for
>> myth maybe?
>>
>> Please feel free to ignore if this is a rubbish idea..
>>
>
> So presumably, it may be possible to capture off-air HD in the UK?
>
> Say, taking the component output of a SkyHD box, converting it to HDMI
> using something like this:
> http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3569 and then throwing it
> at the intensity card... ?
>
> I'm stuck with SD on NTL and a PVR350 right now but this does sound
> interesting...
>
> Cheers,
> Wilf.
>
I emailed the blackmagic development team about the intensity card. It
looks like on the fly compression is doable with a dual core from what
they are saying. It's just a driver/codec design thing now. Uncompressed
HD would require us to raid 0 about four 500GB drives to have enough
storage and transfer speed for 4 hours of 1080i content.
here is their reply:

The Intensity card has generated quite a lot of interest with the
Linux and Open Source community, something which we did not expect.

1. In the Windows platform, we allow the user to capture and compress
on the fly to a JPEG format while on the Mac, to DV, PhotoJPEG as
well as DVCPRO HD. A fast processor will be necessary and also a
capture friendly codec. Certain codecs don't fare well with on the
fly compression, d.g. HDV.

2. Uncompressed HD video will require more than 100MB/sec of transfer
rate. I've attached a small clipping from our PDF manual with some
typical transfer rates using the Apple or Blackmagic Uncompressed
4:2:2 and 4:4:4 codecs for your reference.

3. The compression on capture (if chosen) is in real time but this is
done in software, relying on the processing power of the system. We
don't have any hardware acceleration built in. Uncompressed capture
actually requires less processing power.

A. I'm not sure of the requirements for post capture compression but
dual cores and quad core machines should be fine. We use dual cores
PCs and Macs in our labs as well. I guess post processing is simply
takes up less time with more powerful hardware.

4. You're correct. We don't have any Linux drivers. However, the
response from the Linux community has been good and we've notified
our engineers about it. Hopefully, this is something that can look into.

Regards

Kristian Lam
---
Blackmagic Design
http://www.blackmagic-design.com

> I am a user sometimes code contribute of a popular open-source
> Linux based pvr system � Mythtv. The new Intensity HDMI capture
> card coming out looks like it may be the perfect hardware input for
> cable boxes/high def content coming through non-encrypted hdmi. I
> have some questions about the capability of the hardware that I
> didn�t see listed on the website or spec sheet anywhere.
>
> 1. What would it take to compress the video coming in real-time to
> make the huge amounts of data easier to manage.
>
> 2. What kind of storage requirements/read and write speed
> requirements are we talking here. As you know, uncompressed HD
> takes up massive amounts of space. Many mythtv users run very large
> raid 5 arrays above 1TB with transfer rates usually between 60MB
> and 100MB a second (if not higher)
>
> 3. Does this device use any form of hardware compression or is
> everything software based.
>
> A. If it�s hardware or software, what kind of processing power are
> we needing for compression/partial compression with multi-pass
> compression later say after the recording is finished. Dual-core?
> Quad-core? A lot of us run dual processors in the 4ghz range with
> large amounts of ram.
>
> 4. I know you currently do not have Linux drivers, but the Linux
> development community can make those easy enough if the intensity
> card can be adapted as a HD capture device.
>
>Gene Stapp

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list at onnow

Sep 18, 2006, 7:42 AM

Post #15 of 18 (5735 views)
Permalink

Re: HDMI Capture [In reply to]

This is excellent. I for one, would be willing to shell out for 8
drives in a raid and the card. Whats the next step from here?
Linux drivers?

Quoting Gene Stapp <genestapp [at] gmail>:

> Graeme Wilford wrote:
>> On 12/09/06, Steve Daniels <steve.p.daniels [at] googlemail> wrote:
>>
>>> Just seen this in the register:
>>> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/12/blackmagic_hdmi_editing/
>>> http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
>>> Reckon something like that could be used in linux as a capture device for
>>> myth maybe?
>>>
>>> Please feel free to ignore if this is a rubbish idea..
>>>
>>
>> So presumably, it may be possible to capture off-air HD in the UK?
>>
>> Say, taking the component output of a SkyHD box, converting it to HDMI
>> using something like this:
>> http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3569 and then throwing it
>> at the intensity card... ?
>>
>> I'm stuck with SD on NTL and a PVR350 right now but this does sound
>> interesting...
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Wilf.
>>
> I emailed the blackmagic development team about the intensity card. It
> looks like on the fly compression is doable with a dual core from what
> they are saying. It's just a driver/codec design thing now. Uncompressed
> HD would require us to raid 0 about four 500GB drives to have enough
> storage and transfer speed for 4 hours of 1080i content.
> here is their reply:
>
>
> The Intensity card has generated quite a lot of interest with the
> Linux and Open Source community, something which we did not expect.
>
> 1. In the Windows platform, we allow the user to capture and compress
> on the fly to a JPEG format while on the Mac, to DV, PhotoJPEG as
> well as DVCPRO HD. A fast processor will be necessary and also a
> capture friendly codec. Certain codecs don't fare well with on the
> fly compression, d.g. HDV.
>
> 2. Uncompressed HD video will require more than 100MB/sec of transfer
> rate. I've attached a small clipping from our PDF manual with some
> typical transfer rates using the Apple or Blackmagic Uncompressed
> 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 codecs for your reference.
>
> 3. The compression on capture (if chosen) is in real time but this is
> done in software, relying on the processing power of the system. We
> don't have any hardware acceleration built in. Uncompressed capture
> actually requires less processing power.
>
> A. I'm not sure of the requirements for post capture compression but
> dual cores and quad core machines should be fine. We use dual cores
> PCs and Macs in our labs as well. I guess post processing is simply
> takes up less time with more powerful hardware.
>
> 4. You're correct. We don't have any Linux drivers. However, the
> response from the Linux community has been good and we've notified
> our engineers about it. Hopefully, this is something that can look into.
>
> Regards
>
> Kristian Lam
> ---
> Blackmagic Design
> http://www.blackmagic-design.com
>
>
>> I am a user sometimes code contribute of a popular open-source
>> Linux based pvr system - Mythtv. The new Intensity HDMI capture
>> card coming out looks like it may be the perfect hardware input for
>> cable boxes/high def content coming through non-encrypted hdmi. I
>> have some questions about the capability of the hardware that I
>> didn't see listed on the website or spec sheet anywhere.
>>
>> 1. What would it take to compress the video coming in real-time to
>> make the huge amounts of data easier to manage.
>>
>> 2. What kind of storage requirements/read and write speed
>> requirements are we talking here. As you know, uncompressed HD
>> takes up massive amounts of space. Many mythtv users run very large
>> raid 5 arrays above 1TB with transfer rates usually between 60MB
>> and 100MB a second (if not higher)
>>
>> 3. Does this device use any form of hardware compression or is
>> everything software based.
>>
>> A. If it's hardware or software, what kind of processing power are
>> we needing for compression/partial compression with multi-pass
>> compression later say after the recording is finished. Dual-core?
>> Quad-core? A lot of us run dual processors in the 4ghz range with
>> large amounts of ram.
>>
>> 4. I know you currently do not have Linux drivers, but the Linux
>> development community can make those easy enough if the intensity
>> card can be adapted as a HD capture device.
>>
>> Gene Stapp
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

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adeffs.mythtv at gmail

Sep 18, 2006, 8:01 AM

Post #16 of 18 (5732 views)
Permalink

Re: HDMI Capture [In reply to]

On 9/18/06, list [at] onnow <list [at] onnow> wrote:
> Quoting Gene Stapp <genestapp [at] gmail>:
> > Graeme Wilford wrote:
> >> On 12/09/06, Steve Daniels <steve.p.daniels [at] googlemail> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Just seen this in the register:
> >>> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/12/blackmagic_hdmi_editing/
> >>> http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
> >>> Reckon something like that could be used in linux as a capture device for
> >>> myth maybe?
> >>>
> >>> Please feel free to ignore if this is a rubbish idea..
> >>>
> >>
> >> So presumably, it may be possible to capture off-air HD in the UK?
> >>
> >> Say, taking the component output of a SkyHD box, converting it to HDMI
> >> using something like this:
> >> http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3569 and then throwing it
> >> at the intensity card... ?
> >>
> >> I'm stuck with SD on NTL and a PVR350 right now but this does sound
> >> interesting...
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Wilf.
> >>
> > I emailed the blackmagic development team about the intensity card. It
> > looks like on the fly compression is doable with a dual core from what
> > they are saying. It's just a driver/codec design thing now. Uncompressed
> > HD would require us to raid 0 about four 500GB drives to have enough
> > storage and transfer speed for 4 hours of 1080i content.
> > here is their reply:
> >
> >
> > The Intensity card has generated quite a lot of interest with the
> > Linux and Open Source community, something which we did not expect.
> >
> > 1. In the Windows platform, we allow the user to capture and compress
> > on the fly to a JPEG format while on the Mac, to DV, PhotoJPEG as
> > well as DVCPRO HD. A fast processor will be necessary and also a
> > capture friendly codec. Certain codecs don't fare well with on the
> > fly compression, d.g. HDV.
> >
> > 2. Uncompressed HD video will require more than 100MB/sec of transfer
> > rate. I've attached a small clipping from our PDF manual with some
> > typical transfer rates using the Apple or Blackmagic Uncompressed
> > 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 codecs for your reference.
> >
> > 3. The compression on capture (if chosen) is in real time but this is
> > done in software, relying on the processing power of the system. We
> > don't have any hardware acceleration built in. Uncompressed capture
> > actually requires less processing power.
> >
> > A. I'm not sure of the requirements for post capture compression but
> > dual cores and quad core machines should be fine. We use dual cores
> > PCs and Macs in our labs as well. I guess post processing is simply
> > takes up less time with more powerful hardware.
> >
> > 4. You're correct. We don't have any Linux drivers. However, the
> > response from the Linux community has been good and we've notified
> > our engineers about it. Hopefully, this is something that can look into.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Kristian Lam
> > ---
> > Blackmagic Design
> > http://www.blackmagic-design.com
> >
> >
> >> I am a user sometimes code contribute of a popular open-source
> >> Linux based pvr system - Mythtv. The new Intensity HDMI capture
> >> card coming out looks like it may be the perfect hardware input for
> >> cable boxes/high def content coming through non-encrypted hdmi. I
> >> have some questions about the capability of the hardware that I
> >> didn't see listed on the website or spec sheet anywhere.
> >>
> >> 1. What would it take to compress the video coming in real-time to
> >> make the huge amounts of data easier to manage.
> >>
> >> 2. What kind of storage requirements/read and write speed
> >> requirements are we talking here. As you know, uncompressed HD
> >> takes up massive amounts of space. Many mythtv users run very large
> >> raid 5 arrays above 1TB with transfer rates usually between 60MB
> >> and 100MB a second (if not higher)
> >>
> >> 3. Does this device use any form of hardware compression or is
> >> everything software based.
> >>
> >> A. If it's hardware or software, what kind of processing power are
> >> we needing for compression/partial compression with multi-pass
> >> compression later say after the recording is finished. Dual-core?
> >> Quad-core? A lot of us run dual processors in the 4ghz range with
> >> large amounts of ram.
> >>
> >> 4. I know you currently do not have Linux drivers, but the Linux
> >> development community can make those easy enough if the intensity
> >> card can be adapted as a HD capture device.
> >>
> This is excellent. I for one, would be willing to shell out for 8
> drives in a raid and the card. Whats the next step from here?
> Linux drivers?

Or an Intel Dual Core for on the fly mpeg2 encoding. Or a "PVR"
version of the card with onboard mpeg encoding...

--
Steve
Before you ask, read the FAQ!
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Frequently_Asked_Questions
then search the Wiki, and this list,
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/
Mailinglist etiquette -
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Mailing_List_etiquette
_______________________________________________
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jerrymr at gmail

Sep 18, 2006, 9:15 AM

Post #17 of 18 (5748 views)
Permalink

Re: HDMI Capture [In reply to]

>
> Quoting Gene Stapp <genestapp [at] gmail>:
>
> > Graeme Wilford wrote:
> >> On 12/09/06, Steve Daniels <steve.p.daniels [at] googlemail> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Just seen this in the register:
> >>> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/12/blackmagic_hdmi_editing/
> >>> http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
> >>> Reckon something like that could be used in linux as a capture device
> for
> >>> myth maybe?
> using something like this:
> >> http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3569 and then throwing it
> >> at the intensity card... ?
> >>
> > I emailed the blackmagic development team about the intensity card. It
> > looks like on the fly compression is doable with a dual core from what
> > they are saying. It's just a driver/codec design thing now. Uncompressed
> > HD would require us to raid 0 about four 500GB drives to have enough
> > storage and transfer speed for 4 hours of 1080i content.
> > here is their reply:
> >
> >
> > The Intensity card has generated quite a lot of interest with the
> > Linux and Open Source community, something which we did not expect.
>

On 9/18/06, list [at] onnow <list [at] onnow> wrote:
>
> This is excellent. I for one, would be willing to shell out for 8
> drives in a raid and the card. Whats the next step from here?
> Linux drivers?

Yes,
Linux drivers, and, assuming you don't have HDMI output from your
cable box, something to convert component to HDMI,
like this:

http://www.sewellsupport.com/archives/component-to-hdmi?source=connector

or a DVI to HDMI adapter:
http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/DVI-HDMI_adapters.html#fmhdmi

The advantage with component to HDMI being that there would be no copy
protection issues, although it costs a couple hundred dollars.

-Jerry

mtdean at thirdcontact

Sep 18, 2006, 10:49 AM

Post #18 of 18 (5722 views)
Permalink

Re: HDMI Capture [In reply to]

On 09/18/06 11:01, Steven Adeff wrote:

>On 9/18/06, list [at] onnow <list [at] onnow> wrote:
>
>
>>Quoting Gene Stapp <genestapp [at] gmail>:
>>
>>
>>>Graeme Wilford wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On 12/09/06, Steve Daniels <steve.p.daniels [at] googlemail> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Just seen this in the register:
>>>>>http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/09/12/blackmagic_hdmi_editing/
>>>>>http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
>>>>>Reckon something like that could be used in linux as a capture device for
>>>>>myth maybe?
>>>>>
>>>>>Please feel free to ignore if this is a rubbish idea..
>>>>>
>>>>So presumably, it may be possible to capture off-air HD in the UK?
>>>>
>>>>Say, taking the component output of a SkyHD box, converting it to HDMI
>>>>using something like this:
>>>>http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=3569 and then throwing it
>>>>at the intensity card... ?
>>>>
>>>>I'm stuck with SD on NTL and a PVR350 right now but this does sound
>>>>interesting...
>>>>
>>>I emailed the blackmagic development team about the intensity card. It
>>>looks like on the fly compression is doable with a dual core from what
>>>they are saying.
>>>
...

>>>1. In the Windows platform, we allow the user to capture and compress
>>>on the fly to a JPEG format while on the Mac, to DV, PhotoJPEG as
>>>well as DVCPRO HD. A fast processor will be necessary and also a
>>>capture friendly codec. Certain codecs don't fare well with on the
>>>fly compression, d.g. HDV.
>>>
>>This is excellent. I for one, would be willing to shell out for 8
>>drives in a raid and the card. Whats the next step from here?
>>Linux drivers?
>>
>>
>Or an Intel Dual Core for on the fly mpeg2 encoding. Or a "PVR"
>version of the card with onboard mpeg encoding...
>

I still don't think you'll get real-time compression of 1080i60 or
720p30 to MPEG-2 in real time (let alone MPEG-4 Part 2 or MPEG-4 Part 10
(H.264)). The RTJPEG (or is it just thousands of sequenced JPEG images
on disk?) is doable with the right processor, but MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 will
probably require post-capture transcoding with any processor available
today.

Mike
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