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tv_grab_au: can't get rex-1.2.4 to work.

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htpc at treblid

Aug 29, 2006, 4:29 AM

Post #1 of 17 (1994 views)
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tv_grab_au: can't get rex-1.2.4 to work.

I'm using rex 1.2.4 (also tried 1.2.0, 1.2.2 & 1.2.3) and got the
following errors. Anybody knows what's the problem??
It used to work....

Shows found: 1028.
Use of uninitialized value in substitution (s///) at
/usr/local/bin/tv_grab_au line 560, <> line 1.
Use of uninitialized value in substitution (s///) at
/usr/local/bin/tv_grab_au line 561, <> line 1.
Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at
/usr/local/bin/tv_grab_au line 562, <> line 1.
Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at
/usr/local/bin/tv_grab_au line 563, <> line 1.
Use of uninitialized value in substitution (s///) at
/usr/local/bin/tv_grab_au line 560, <> line 1.
Use of uninitialized value in substitution (s///) at
/usr/local/bin/tv_grab_au line 561, <> line 1.
Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at
/usr/local/bin/tv_grab_au line 562, <> line 1.
Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at
/usr/local/bin/tv_grab_au line 563, <> line 1.
.....

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brucen at ksl

Aug 29, 2006, 5:05 AM

Post #2 of 17 (1930 views)
Permalink

Re: tv_grab_au: can't get rex-1.2.4 to work. [In reply to]

Ng Theng Kiat wrote:
> I'm using rex 1.2.4 (also tried 1.2.0, 1.2.2 & 1.2.3) and got the
> following errors. Anybody knows what's the problem??
> It used to work....
>
> Shows found: 1028.
> Use of uninitialized value in substitution (s///) at
> /usr/local/bin/tv_grab_au line 560, <> line 1.
> Use of uninitialized value in substitution (s///) at
> /usr/local/bin/tv_grab_au line 561, <> line 1.
> Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at
> /usr/local/bin/tv_grab_au line 562, <> line 1.
> Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at
> /usr/local/bin/tv_grab_au line 563, <> line 1.
> Use of uninitialized value in substitution (s///) at
> /usr/local/bin/tv_grab_au line 560, <> line 1.
> Use of uninitialized value in substitution (s///) at
> /usr/local/bin/tv_grab_au line 561, <> line 1.
> Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at
> /usr/local/bin/tv_grab_au line 562, <> line 1.
> Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at
> /usr/local/bin/tv_grab_au line 563, <> line 1.
> .....
>
>
I'd be interested to know too...mine started doing this tonight and I am
down to 2 days schedule. Have we been pinged?!?!!

Cheers
Bruce

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mythtv at maxbarry

Aug 29, 2006, 1:44 PM

Post #3 of 17 (1916 views)
Permalink

tv_grab_au: can't get rex-1.2.4 to work. [In reply to]

Bruce Nordstrand wrote:
> I'd be interested to know too...mine started doing this tonight and I am
> down to 2 days schedule. Have we been pinged?!?!!

Afraid so. They've started obfuscating the TV guide data.

Running Rex not only fails to retrieve new guide data, but can poison
your existing guide data.

Max.

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brucen at ksl

Aug 29, 2006, 4:48 PM

Post #4 of 17 (1913 views)
Permalink

Re: tv_grab_au: can't get rex-1.2.4 to work. [In reply to]

Max Barry wrote:
> Bruce Nordstrand wrote:
>
>> I'd be interested to know too...mine started doing this tonight and I am
>> down to 2 days schedule. Have we been pinged?!?!!
>>
>
> Afraid so. They've started obfuscating the TV guide data.
>
> Running Rex not only fails to retrieve new guide data, but can poison
> your existing guide data.
>
> Max.
>
>
Bummer! What a-holes....can't these people just accept the fact that
PVR's are here to stay!! Grrrrr

Cheers
Bruce
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myth at dermanouelian

Aug 29, 2006, 4:55 PM

Post #5 of 17 (1911 views)
Permalink

Re: tv_grab_au: can't get rex-1.2.4 to work. [In reply to]

On Aug 29, 2006, at 4:48 PM, Bruce Nordstrand wrote:

> Max Barry wrote:
>> Bruce Nordstrand wrote:
>>
>>> I'd be interested to know too...mine started doing this tonight
>>> and I am
>>> down to 2 days schedule. Have we been pinged?!?!!
>>>
>>
>> Afraid so. They've started obfuscating the TV guide data.
>>
>> Running Rex not only fails to retrieve new guide data, but can poison
>> your existing guide data.
>>
>> Max.
>>
>>
> Bummer! What a-holes....can't these people just accept the fact that
> PVR's are here to stay!! Grrrrr
>
> Cheers
> Bruce

Not to sound like an a-hole, but making them pay for server bandwidth
for your PVR isn't the solution. Maybe someone could put them in
touch with the zap2it people and get some ideas on how to please
everyone?
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htpc at treblid

Aug 29, 2006, 5:16 PM

Post #6 of 17 (1902 views)
Permalink

Re: tv_grab_au: can't get rex-1.2.4 to work. [In reply to]

Not to sound like an a-hole, but making them pay for server bandwidth
for your PVR isn't the solution. Maybe someone could put them in
touch with the zap2it people and get some ideas on how to please
everyone?
I'm sure this has been mentioned several times already. But I'm very confident the overhead costs in this server traffic will be trumped by the extra revenues they receive from advertisers due to the increase in viewership.

So much politics is involved in protecting things that hurts everybody. But then Australia in reality run by people who are so out of touch..........

myth at dermanouelian

Aug 29, 2006, 6:17 PM

Post #7 of 17 (1905 views)
Permalink

Re: tv_grab_au: can't get rex-1.2.4 to work. [In reply to]

On Aug 29, 2006, at 5:16 PM, tj wrote:
> Not to sound like an a-hole, but making them pay for server bandwidth
>
> for your PVR isn't the solution. Maybe someone could put them in
> touch with the zap2it people and get some ideas on how to please
> everyone?
> I'm sure this has been mentioned several times already. But I'm
> very confident the overhead costs in this server traffic will be
> trumped by the extra revenues they receive from advertisers due to
> the increase in viewership.
>
> So much politics is involved in protecting things that hurts
> everybody. But then Australia in reality run by people who are so
> out of touch..........

...which is why I suggest contacting someone who owns the content
you're trying to use and explain the situation. Help them to provide
you with XML files of the listings. It lowers their bandwidth needs
and increases viewership. Everyone wins. They probably already have
it in XML and use XSL to build their HTML pages. As it stands, they
see a bunch of robots sucking up their bandwidth who aren't clicking
on their ads and want to stop it.

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brucen at ksl

Aug 29, 2006, 6:24 PM

Post #8 of 17 (1904 views)
Permalink

Re: tv_grab_au: can't get rex-1.2.4 to work. [In reply to]

Brad DerManouelian wrote:
> On Aug 29, 2006, at 5:16 PM, tj wrote:
>
>> Not to sound like an a-hole, but making them pay for server bandwidth
>>
>> for your PVR isn't the solution. Maybe someone could put them in
>> touch with the zap2it people and get some ideas on how to please
>> everyone?
>> I'm sure this has been mentioned several times already. But I'm
>> very confident the overhead costs in this server traffic will be
>> trumped by the extra revenues they receive from advertisers due to
>> the increase in viewership.
>>
>> So much politics is involved in protecting things that hurts
>> everybody. But then Australia in reality run by people who are so
>> out of touch..........
>>
>
> ...which is why I suggest contacting someone who owns the content
> you're trying to use and explain the situation. Help them to provide
> you with XML files of the listings. It lowers their bandwidth needs
> and increases viewership. Everyone wins. They probably already have
> it in XML and use XSL to build their HTML pages. As it stands, they
> see a bunch of robots sucking up their bandwidth who aren't clicking
> on their ads and want to stop it.
>
>
Brad

I understand where you are coming from but here in Australia they are
not interested in supplying anything to the PVR community. Currently
there is one broadcaster trying to sue a guide provider over copyright
and another waiting in the wings seeing what the outcome is. Here, even
TV guide data is classed as copyright, as is telephone numbers (ie phone
book). I am sure for a few thousand dollars they would provide some data
for the PVR community, but definately not for free. Even our laws
stipulate that recording anything from a TV broadcast is breach of
copyright, so anyone with a VCR or PVR is breaking the law by using it!!!

Cheers
Bruce

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myth at dermanouelian

Aug 29, 2006, 6:43 PM

Post #9 of 17 (1916 views)
Permalink

Re: tv_grab_au: can't get rex-1.2.4 to work. [In reply to]

On Aug 29, 2006, at 6:24 PM, Bruce Nordstrand wrote:

> Brad DerManouelian wrote:
>> On Aug 29, 2006, at 5:16 PM, tj wrote:
>>
>>> Not to sound like an a-hole, but making them pay for server
>>> bandwidth
>>>
>>> for your PVR isn't the solution. Maybe someone could put them in
>>> touch with the zap2it people and get some ideas on how to please
>>> everyone?
>>> I'm sure this has been mentioned several times already. But I'm
>>> very confident the overhead costs in this server traffic will be
>>> trumped by the extra revenues they receive from advertisers due to
>>> the increase in viewership.
>>>
>>> So much politics is involved in protecting things that hurts
>>> everybody. But then Australia in reality run by people who are so
>>> out of touch..........
>>>
>>
>> ...which is why I suggest contacting someone who owns the content
>> you're trying to use and explain the situation. Help them to provide
>> you with XML files of the listings. It lowers their bandwidth needs
>> and increases viewership. Everyone wins. They probably already have
>> it in XML and use XSL to build their HTML pages. As it stands, they
>> see a bunch of robots sucking up their bandwidth who aren't clicking
>> on their ads and want to stop it.
>>
>>
> Brad
>
> I understand where you are coming from but here in Australia they are
> not interested in supplying anything to the PVR community. Currently
> there is one broadcaster trying to sue a guide provider over copyright
> and another waiting in the wings seeing what the outcome is. Here,
> even
> TV guide data is classed as copyright, as is telephone numbers (ie
> phone
> book). I am sure for a few thousand dollars they would provide some
> data
> for the PVR community, but definately not for free. Even our laws
> stipulate that recording anything from a TV broadcast is breach of
> copyright, so anyone with a VCR or PVR is breaking the law by using
> it!!!
>
> Cheers
> Bruce

Now I understand. Looks like a business opportunity to me. Provide
guide data for a fee and give back a percentage to all broadcasters
who supply content like the iTunes Music Store business model. You
could even charge per channel. :)
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brucen at ksl

Aug 29, 2006, 6:44 PM

Post #10 of 17 (1915 views)
Permalink

Re: tv_grab_au: can't get rex-1.2.4 to work. [In reply to]

Max Barry wrote:
> Running Rex not only fails to retrieve new guide data, but can poison
> your existing guide data.
>
> Max.
>
>
AhHhhhhh! Silly me forgot to turn off the cron task and mythfilldatabase
ran. You are right - now all my guide data is screwed up with programs
combined and mixed up. SWMBO will not be happy, not happy at all!

Cheers
Bruce

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mythtv at maxbarry

Aug 29, 2006, 8:12 PM

Post #11 of 17 (1907 views)
Permalink

Re: tv_grab_au: can't get rex-1.2.4 to work. [In reply to]

Here's the situation. The web site that Rex gets data from,
yourtv.com.au, has begun scrambling the start & finish times of shows.
Right next to this code, they've inserted this URL in a comment:

http://yourtv.com.au/legal/?action=copyright

So it's pretty clear this deliberate effort to stop us.

The obfuscation isn't hard to unscramble. However, the fact that they've
bothered to take this step implies that (a) they've noticed, (b) they
care, and (c) they're prepared to do something about it. And while I'd
like to help ensure the continued employment of whomever they've hired
for this job (hello!), I'm pretty sure that would take more time than I
have.

It might be worthwhile to switch to a different data source. I do have
another grabber that uses a different source, and will see if this looks
feasible.

But from what I hear the best alternative may be OzTivo:
http://www.tvguide.org.au/

Sorry about the data poisoning -- I should have made Rex not overwrite
data when the new information looks bogus.

Max.

P.S. The yourtv.com.au Legal/Copyright page is largely bullshit, as far
as I can tell. It reads like a contract ("The end user agrees...") but
nobody here has a contract with them. And Australian copyright law sure
doesn't give them the right to impose arbitrary limitations on what
we're permitted to do -- if indeed TV guide data is protected by
copyright law at all.

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redcane at redcane

Aug 30, 2006, 1:45 AM

Post #12 of 17 (1889 views)
Permalink

Re: tv_grab_au: can't get rex-1.2.4 to work. [In reply to]

On Wednesday 30 August 2006 09:55, Brad DerManouelian wrote:
> On Aug 29, 2006, at 4:48 PM, Bruce Nordstrand wrote:
> > Max Barry wrote:
> >> Bruce Nordstrand wrote:
> >>> I'd be interested to know too...mine started doing this tonight
> >>> and I am
> >>> down to 2 days schedule. Have we been pinged?!?!!
> >>
> >> Afraid so. They've started obfuscating the TV guide data.
> >>
> >> Running Rex not only fails to retrieve new guide data, but can poison
> >> your existing guide data.
> >>
> >> Max.
> >
> > Bummer! What a-holes....can't these people just accept the fact that
> > PVR's are here to stay!! Grrrrr
> >
> > Cheers
> > Bruce
>
> Not to sound like an a-hole, but making them pay for server bandwidth
> for your PVR isn't the solution. Maybe someone could put them in
> touch with the zap2it people and get some ideas on how to please
> everyone?

Of course the different broadcasters could just upload their data (which they
probably already have in xml format) directly to tvguide.org.au, and we
wouldn't need any more of their bandwidth....
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redcane at redcane

Aug 30, 2006, 1:46 AM

Post #13 of 17 (1898 views)
Permalink

Re: tv_grab_au: can't get rex-1.2.4 to work. [In reply to]

On Wednesday 30 August 2006 11:43, Brad DerManouelian wrote:
> On Aug 29, 2006, at 6:24 PM, Bruce Nordstrand wrote:
> > Brad DerManouelian wrote:
> >> On Aug 29, 2006, at 5:16 PM, tj wrote:
> >>> Not to sound like an a-hole, but making them pay for server
> >>> bandwidth
> >>>
> >>> for your PVR isn't the solution. Maybe someone could put them in
> >>> touch with the zap2it people and get some ideas on how to please
> >>> everyone?
> >>> I'm sure this has been mentioned several times already. But I'm
> >>> very confident the overhead costs in this server traffic will be
> >>> trumped by the extra revenues they receive from advertisers due to
> >>> the increase in viewership.
> >>>
> >>> So much politics is involved in protecting things that hurts
> >>> everybody. But then Australia in reality run by people who are so
> >>> out of touch..........
> >>
> >> ...which is why I suggest contacting someone who owns the content
> >> you're trying to use and explain the situation. Help them to provide
> >> you with XML files of the listings. It lowers their bandwidth needs
> >> and increases viewership. Everyone wins. They probably already have
> >> it in XML and use XSL to build their HTML pages. As it stands, they
> >> see a bunch of robots sucking up their bandwidth who aren't clicking
> >> on their ads and want to stop it.
> >
> > Brad
> >
> > I understand where you are coming from but here in Australia they are
> > not interested in supplying anything to the PVR community. Currently
> > there is one broadcaster trying to sue a guide provider over copyright
> > and another waiting in the wings seeing what the outcome is. Here,
> > even
> > TV guide data is classed as copyright, as is telephone numbers (ie
> > phone
> > book). I am sure for a few thousand dollars they would provide some
> > data
> > for the PVR community, but definately not for free. Even our laws
> > stipulate that recording anything from a TV broadcast is breach of
> > copyright, so anyone with a VCR or PVR is breaking the law by using
> > it!!!
> >
> > Cheers
> > Bruce
>
> Now I understand. Looks like a business opportunity to me. Provide
> guide data for a fee and give back a percentage to all broadcasters
> who supply content like the iTunes Music Store business model. You
> could even charge per channel. :)

And then you would be sued, as Icetv (the only commercial guide data provider)
is....
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redcane at redcane

Aug 30, 2006, 1:50 AM

Post #14 of 17 (1905 views)
Permalink

Re: tv_grab_au: can't get rex-1.2.4 to work. [In reply to]

I got a reply to my email to the ABC, asking about using the guide data from
their site (I figured since they have a months data in advance on there it
wouldn't be bad), but they asked if I meant G-codes..... I was thinking I'd
just scrape the site and upload it to tvguide.org.au if they gave permission.
Perhaps someone with more time on their hands/persistance can get in touch
with someone at the ABC who knows what they are talking about. We might even
be able to get XML files from them......

Mark
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mythtv at harderstuff

Aug 30, 2006, 7:30 AM

Post #15 of 17 (1901 views)
Permalink

Re: tv_grab_au: can't get rex-1.2.4 to work. [In reply to]

>> I understand where you are coming from but here in Australia they are
>> not interested in supplying anything to the PVR community. Currently
>> there is one broadcaster trying to sue a guide provider over copyright
>> and another waiting in the wings seeing what the outcome is. Here, even
>> TV guide data is classed as copyright, as is telephone numbers (ie
>> phone book). I am sure for a few thousand dollars they would provide some
>> data for the PVR community, but definately not for free. Even our laws
>> stipulate that recording anything from a TV broadcast is breach of
>> copyright, so anyone with a VCR or PVR is breaking the law by using
>> it!!!
>
> Now I understand. Looks like a business opportunity to me. Provide
> guide data for a fee and give back a percentage to all broadcasters who
> supply content like the iTunes Music Store business model. You could even
> charge per channel. :)

Ahh, but the overriding priority for the networks is to maximize their
primary revenue stream - advertisements broadcast to air. Until you can
come up with a business model that competes with that, your ideas/pleas
will fall on deaf ears.

Remember, as pointed out by Alan Isherwood on PVRWire, our cosy little
arrangement threatens that business model by allowing people to schedule
recordings, and easily zap the ads.

Sorry to be the bringer of bad news!

I know this is pushing the thread further OT, but what happens if OzTivo
shuts down? Can it be moved to a server overseas? Or would it be too
risky to put one's ass on the line in this way?

Luke.

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robertmc at laservision

Aug 30, 2006, 6:36 PM

Post #16 of 17 (1891 views)
Permalink

Re: tv_grab_au: can't get rex-1.2.4 to work. [In reply to]

Hello All,
Having a look at what they have done with the program times in the detail pages, it is pretty easy to get around. All they have done is to encode the times as either hex, decimal or ASCII codes. And added the copyright link. (Which is a waste of good bandwidth!) It would not have taken long at all to do and Perl should have no issues in sorting this out.

I was under the impression that the lawsuit against IceTV was dropped. It seemed to be a tactic from a certain TV station to disrupt IceTV listing on the stock exchange. Which it did. It also gave a large amount of media coverage and boosted there sales. So it was a doubled edged sword.

I think the argument about the ads being zapped is a little weak as when I have ever used this feature in myth it works during the middle of the program but close to the end of the show it gets all confused and runs the ads and skips the show. Duh... But there are also many ways for the TV stations to upset any of the ad skipping methods.

The ones thing that the TV stations are missing is that with any pvr system people will watch more TV because it is so much more convenient than the old vcr system to record the shows they want to watch and then watch them later. It is so similar to the mp3's and the music industry and how they missed the boat and now are paying dearly for that mistake. The TV stations have the ability to be at the for front of any new technology but are insisting on keeping everyone in the stone age. WAKE UP! Just remember that without viewer numbers the advertisers will not pay for the ad slots. So the TV stations are only looking after one side of the coin.

Sorry, I will get off the soap box now. But gees I feel better I got that off my chest.

BTW how many people are using the rex grabber? Are we talking 100, 1000 or 10000 ish ???

Robert.

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bend at bedel

Aug 31, 2006, 11:17 PM

Post #17 of 17 (1851 views)
Permalink

Re: tv_grab_au: can't get rex-1.2.4 to work. [In reply to]

this happens all the time <sigh>

is any one going to update the grabber?
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