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OT: Anyone running an ATI Radeon (9000) with a VGA-SCART adapter (PAL)

 

 

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knowledgejunkie at gmail

May 29, 2006, 8:49 PM

Post #1 of 9 (3175 views)
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OT: Anyone running an ATI Radeon (9000) with a VGA-SCART adapter (PAL)

It's very late.

I've been trying to get a VGA-SCART adapter working with my new master
backend machine - which is using an AGP ATI Radeon 9000 Pro video
card. As most ATI users know, ATI do not seem to be able to write a
decent driver to save their lives. As if the pain of having a Pundit-R
when its TV-Out support was broken in 04/05 was not enough, they have
broken the current fglrx drivers (8.20 is the last working release) so
that now Xv and PAL support is broken on TV-Out. I'm running 2.6.16
now with full livna and atrpms updates too, so I don't really want to
have to revert back to 2.6.14 if I don't have to. TV is a Sony
KV-36FS70. Currently running 8.23 driver from livna.

I decided to build a VGA-SCART cable to try and get around this issue
by using the VGA output directly, but I get a rolling screen with the
suggested PAL modeline from http://ryoandr.free.fr/english.html and a
couple others I've found Googling. I've tested the cable with a
continuity meter and it all checks out, and the TV supports RGB input.
I can make out the Fedora logo and username box on the login manager
screen, and the MFE menu in the correct colours, so the cable seems to
be OK.

I don't want to have to extract the machine from its new location - it
is plumbed in pretty well, and don't really want to have to install
Windows to run PowerStrip. TV-Out works (obv without Xv) over S-Video,
so I'm hoping there may be an easy way to extract the required
information to create a 720x576 modeline that I can use via VGA.

If I do end up having to extract the machine from its new home, I'll
probably buy a 5200 and be done with it. I feel a bit of a fool
checking ATIs release notes for their latest drivers and believing
them.

If anyone has working PAL modelines for use with an ATI Radeon 9000
card (or similar) and VGA-SCART lead, please let me know, and also
what kinds of tweaking I can do to the suggested modeline on the
ryoandr.free.fr site. A copy of the device and monitor sections from
xorg.conf file too would be a very useful comparison.

Can tiling be turned off in the ATI linux driver?

Thanks,
Nick

--
MythTV Official wiki:
http://mythtv.org/wiki/
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andrew at evergreencomputing

May 30, 2006, 12:26 AM

Post #2 of 9 (3108 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Anyone running an ATI Radeon (9000) with a VGA-SCART adapter (PAL) [In reply to]

Nick wrote:
> It's very late.
>
> I've been trying to get a VGA-SCART adapter working with my new master
> backend machine - which is using an AGP ATI Radeon 9000 Pro video
> card. As most ATI users know, ATI do not seem to be able to write a
> decent driver to save their lives. As if the pain of having a Pundit-R
> when its TV-Out support was broken in 04/05 was not enough, they have
> broken the current fglrx drivers (8.20 is the last working release) so
> that now Xv and PAL support is broken on TV-Out. I'm running 2.6.16
> now with full livna and atrpms updates too, so I don't really want to
> have to revert back to 2.6.14 if I don't have to. TV is a Sony
> KV-36FS70. Currently running 8.23 driver from livna.
>
> I decided to build a VGA-SCART cable to try and get around this issue
> by using the VGA output directly, but I get a rolling screen with the
> suggested PAL modeline from http://ryoandr.free.fr/english.html and a
> couple others I've found Googling. I've tested the cable with a
> continuity meter and it all checks out, and the TV supports RGB input.
> I can make out the Fedora logo and username box on the login manager
> screen, and the MFE menu in the correct colours, so the cable seems to
> be OK.
>
> I don't want to have to extract the machine from its new location - it
> is plumbed in pretty well, and don't really want to have to install
> Windows to run PowerStrip. TV-Out works (obv without Xv) over S-Video,
> so I'm hoping there may be an easy way to extract the required
> information to create a 720x576 modeline that I can use via VGA.
>
> If I do end up having to extract the machine from its new home, I'll
> probably buy a 5200 and be done with it. I feel a bit of a fool
> checking ATIs release notes for their latest drivers and believing
> them.
>
> If anyone has working PAL modelines for use with an ATI Radeon 9000
> card (or similar) and VGA-SCART lead, please let me know, and also
> what kinds of tweaking I can do to the suggested modeline on the
> ryoandr.free.fr site. A copy of the device and monitor sections from
> xorg.conf file too would be a very useful comparison.
>
> Can tiling be turned off in the ATI linux driver?
>
> Thanks,
> Nick


Hi Nick,

I've been through this recently with my pundit-r with onboard ATI 9100.
Ended up buying a VGA to SCART cable and fiddling with xorg.conf until
late into the night!

Attached is my xorg.conf. It's not very clean as the fglrx stuff has
been hacked out with a blunt axe.

Note these lines in the Device section:
Driver "ati"
Option "ForceMinDotClock" "15MHz"

and check your /var/log/Xorg.0.log file to make sure it's using the
correct Modeline.

Hope that helps.

I have a few display problems with my setup:
1. contrast is too high,
2. top 10-20 rows on the screen flicker and bend slightly. I've shifted
the display around with xvidtune so this disappears when showing the
myth menus, but as soon as I watch a recorded show or live tv, the
flicking comes back. Is this an Xv problem? Do I need a separate
modeline for that?


Cheers
Andrew
--
Email: andrew [at] evergreencomputing
Website: http://evergreencomputing.com
Phone: +44 (0)1454 269 087
Fax: +44 (0)8707 515 596
Attachments: xorg.conf (2.38 KB)


tom at compton

May 30, 2006, 12:41 AM

Post #3 of 9 (3115 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Anyone running an ATI Radeon (9000) with a VGA-SCART adapter (PAL) [In reply to]

In message <447BF391.7020104 [at] evergreencomputing>
Andrew Cope <andrew [at] evergreencomputing> wrote:

> I've been through this recently with my pundit-r with onboard ATI 9100.
> Ended up buying a VGA to SCART cable and fiddling with xorg.conf until
> late into the night!

Where did you manage to buy a VGA to SCART cable? I didn't think
there was anybody selling them...

Tom

--
Tom Hughes (tom [at] compton)
http://www.compton.nu/
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andrew at evergreencomputing

May 30, 2006, 6:07 AM

Post #4 of 9 (3117 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Anyone running an ATI Radeon (9000) with a VGA-SCART adapter (PAL) [In reply to]

On Tue, May 30, 2006 08:41, Tom Hughes wrote:
> In message <447BF391.7020104 [at] evergreencomputing>
> Andrew Cope <andrew [at] evergreencomputing> wrote:
>
>> I've been through this recently with my pundit-r with onboard ATI 9100.
>> Ended up buying a VGA to SCART cable and fiddling with xorg.conf until
>> late into the night!
>
> Where did you manage to buy a VGA to SCART cable? I didn't think
> there was anybody selling them...
>
> Tom


Hi Tom,

Found it on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=9732553601&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_ReBay_Pr4_PcY_BIN_IT

It comes with full instructions for Windows (!) and assumes you have an
ATI Radeon card. I guess it's untested on other cards.

Looks like the same circuit as http://ryoandr.free.fr/english.html

Cheers
Andrew
--
Email: andrew [at] evergreencomputing
Website: http://evergreencomputing.com
Phone: +44 (0)1454 269 087
Fax: +44 (0)8707 515 596
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


tom at compton

May 30, 2006, 6:22 AM

Post #5 of 9 (3121 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Anyone running an ATI Radeon (9000) with a VGA-SCART adapter (PAL) [In reply to]

In message <21342.80.68.82.46.1148994427.squirrel [at] egcl>
Andrew Cope <andrew [at] evergreencomputing> wrote:

> Found it on ebay:
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=9732553601&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_ReBay_Pr4_PcY_BIN_IT
>
> It comes with full instructions for Windows (!) and assumes you have an
> ATI Radeon card. I guess it's untested on other cards.
>
> Looks like the same circuit as http://ryoandr.free.fr/english.html

Ah. I think that is an ATI specific thing that relies on the ATI cards
being able to output fully PAL compatible signals - most other cards
need a sync converter circuit in the cable and nobody seems to sell
those.

Tom

--
Tom Hughes (tom [at] compton)
http://www.compton.nu/
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maillists at whattf

May 30, 2006, 7:23 AM

Post #6 of 9 (3115 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Anyone running an ATI Radeon (9000) with a VGA-SCART adapter (PAL) [In reply to]

On Tuesday 30 May 2006 04:49, Nick wrote:
> I've been trying to get a VGA-SCART adapter working with my new master
> backend machine - which is using an AGP ATI Radeon 9000 Pro video
> card. As most ATI users know, ATI do not seem to be able to write a
> decent driver to save their lives.
>
I'm not actually using ATIs drivers at all IIRC - They wouldn't allow me to
spec a TV supported res at all (That was sometime around Sept/Oct last year).

My device is:
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV280 [Radeon 9200
PRO] (rev 01)
according to lspci.

> I decided to build a VGA-SCART cable to try and get around this issue
> by using the VGA output directly, but I get a rolling screen with the
> suggested PAL modeline from http://ryoandr.free.fr/english.html and a
> couple others I've found Googling. I've tested the cable with a
> continuity meter and it all checks out, and the TV supports RGB input.
> I can make out the Fedora logo and username box on the login manager
> screen, and the MFE menu in the correct colours, so the cable seems to
> be OK.
>
I built my own, from these very instructions (I believe; or some looking very
similar if not).

I spent a lot of time Googling (as you do in these situations), and I came
across the configuration below (after many failed attempts), it isn't
720x576, I found a 16:9 based res. I tweeked it slightly to make the screen
more central (used some X modeline tool of which I can't remember the name).

> If anyone has working PAL modelines for use with an ATI Radeon 9000
> card (or similar) and VGA-SCART lead, please let me know, and also
> what kinds of tweaking I can do to the suggested modeline on the
> ryoandr.free.fr site. A copy of the device and monitor sections from
> xorg.conf file too would be a very useful comparison.
>96
Section "Device"
Identifier "ATIGraphics"
Driver "radeon"
BusID "PCI:1:0:0" # vendor=1002, device=5960
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
Identifier "ATIPALTV"
HorizSync 14.0-65
VertRefresh 24-230

#Modeline "960x540" 20.222 960 1048 1120 1288 540 561 570 628 composite
interlace

Modeline "960x540" 20.22 960 1036 1108 1288 540 561 570 629
interlace composite

EndSection

Like I said that works fine for me, YMMV...
I believe the one commented out is the actual line I found out on the web
somewhere (it may also have been my last working config though before the
last change!).

Hope that helps...

Cheers,

Simon.,
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maillists at whattf

May 30, 2006, 7:39 AM

Post #7 of 9 (3120 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Anyone running an ATI Radeon (9000) with a VGA-SCART adapter (PAL) [In reply to]

On Tuesday 30 May 2006 14:22, Tom Hughes wrote:
> Ah. I think that is an ATI specific thing that relies on the ATI cards
> being able to output fully PAL compatible signals - most other cards
> need a sync converter circuit in the cable and nobody seems to sell
> those.
>
I found these a while ago whilst I was looking:

http://www.focusinfo.com/solutions/catalog.asp?id=151

Difficult to get the version I wanted in the UK (the PCI one); UK distributor
didn't stock so wouldn't do sale or return. Also didn't respond about
willingness to investigate Linux based drivers.

Made my own in the end - Black screen results probably not as good, but a lot
cheaper!

Simon.,
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tom at compton

May 30, 2006, 7:46 AM

Post #8 of 9 (3110 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Anyone running an ATI Radeon (9000) with a VGA-SCART adapter (PAL) [In reply to]

In message <200605301539.23054.maillists [at] whattf>
Simon Levitt <maillists [at] whattf> wrote:

> On Tuesday 30 May 2006 14:22, Tom Hughes wrote:
>
>> Ah. I think that is an ATI specific thing that relies on the ATI cards
>> being able to output fully PAL compatible signals - most other cards
>> need a sync converter circuit in the cable and nobody seems to sell
>> those.
>
> I found these a while ago whilst I was looking:
>
> http://www.focusinfo.com/solutions/catalog.asp?id=151
>
> Difficult to get the version I wanted in the UK (the PCI one); UK distributor
> didn't stock so wouldn't do sale or return. Also didn't respond about
> willingness to investigate Linux based drivers.

A scan converter is a completely different beast - you want to avoid
that if you possibly can as the results aren't usually very good
especially on consumer grade ones.

I made my own VGA to SCART cable with a sync converter which is fine
so long as you graphics card can scan down to TV frequencies.

Tom

--
Tom Hughes (tom [at] compton)
http://www.compton.nu/
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knowledgejunkie at gmail

May 30, 2006, 6:56 PM

Post #9 of 9 (3105 views)
Permalink
Re: OT: Anyone running an ATI Radeon (9000) with a VGA-SCART adapter (PAL) [In reply to]

On 30/05/06, Andrew Cope <andrew [at] evergreencomputing> wrote:
> Attached is my xorg.conf. It's not very clean as the fglrx stuff has
> been hacked out with a blunt axe.
>
> Note these lines in the Device section:
> Driver "ati"
> Option "ForceMinDotClock" "15MHz"
>
> and check your /var/log/Xorg.0.log file to make sure it's using the
> correct Modeline.
>
> Hope that helps.

Andrew,

Many thanks for that. I now have very nice RGB output (seems much
sharper than the TV-out with better colour) from the machine using the
ati driver (as you stated the fglrx driver does not seem to allow the
very low dot clock and my attempts with the working modeline confirm
this.).

I too have some slight flicker/bend athte top of the screen using both
modelines. I will try and see if I can resolve that in the next few
days - at least my cable is working 100% - best £5 cabling project
I've done for a while.

I also seem to require kernel deinterlacing enabled to get rid off
erratic frame stuttering, even though the system is providing an
interlaced source to an interlaced display - I'm guessing the ati
driver does not provide OpenGL vsync that Myth can use? There's also
some overscan too, so I'll see if I can do some resizing of the
signal.

I'll report back when I've (hopefully) got things nailed down a bit
more, but in the meantime, thanks a bunch for your xorg details.

Cheers,
Nick

--
MythTV Official wiki:
http://mythtv.org/wiki/
MythTV users list archive:
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