Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

PVR-350 output support being dropped!

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mythtv at archer-segel

Mar 23, 2006, 2:03 PM

Post #26 of 35 (1615 views)
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Re: PVR-350 output support being dropped! [In reply to]

Sdk wrote:
> Maybe I'm doing something wrong (right), but the PVR350 is working
> well for me. I watch DVD's and Videos with no problem.
> _______________________________________________
>
It all depends on what you mean by "working". What version of MythTV are
you using? Are you using the onboard MPEG decoder or xv (i.e. do you
have MythTV set up to use the PVR-350's MPEG2 decoder for output)? Can
you fast-forward at speeds greater than 3x while watching a prerecorded
show? Can you use Myth's time-stretch function?

My PVR-350 "works" via the onboard MPEG decoder *or* xv, but the MythTV
video picture quality is much worse with xv. Unfortunately, several
features (like time stretch and FF>3x) only work with xv, and the
developers have indicated that they won't be making them work with the
onboard decoder, hence our problem.

With DVD images and xine, video looks great even though it's using xv as
well, so I think there's something wrong with MythTV, or at least with
how I have it set up.

Daniel

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spam1001 at 2thebatcave

Mar 23, 2006, 5:46 PM

Post #27 of 35 (1588 views)
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Re: PVR-350 output support being dropped! [In reply to]

> I have "Aspect Override" set to Off. I may try it set to Fill instead.
>
> Is anybody actually using a PVR-350 in XV mode with an interlaced SD TV
> with good results? If so, what resolution are you recording at?
>

Mine is working well. Here are a few notes about my setup:
Recording:
720x480 resolution
stream type dvd-special 2
aspect ratio = square
bitrate = 4500
max bitrate = 6000
audio codec = mpeg2 hardware encoder
sampling rate 3200
type layer II
bitrate 384kbps
volume 90%

Playback:
no deinterlacing (if I put it on then I get really, really crappy output.
but of course you don't need it for the pvr350 anyway)
preferred mpeg 2 decoder = standard
checked enable realtime priority threads
not checked use video as timebase
checked extra audio buffering
aspect override off
overscan settings all 0

Appearance:
do not select use gui size for tv playback

Probably the first things to check if your aspect ratio is off is to make
sure deinterlacing is disabled and that you are not using gui size for
playback (doing that will scale the output and mess everything up, since
we are not deinterlacing).

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kichigai at comcast

Mar 23, 2006, 9:19 PM

Post #28 of 35 (1604 views)
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Re: PVR-350 output support being dropped! [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mar 23, 2006, at 03.58, Ian Forde wrote:

> On Thu, 2006-03-23 at 01:50 -0600, Kichigai Mentat wrote:
>
>> Oh piffle! I was considering condensing my MythTV system, and using a
>> PVR-350 as output, since my back-end doesn't have any AGP slots, a
>> single PCI slot I can free up, and I wanted to include at least one
>> more tuner. I guess I'll need to stick to my separated solution for
>> now.
>
> If you've got an onboard VGA out, just use a transcoder box such as an
> Audio Authority...

Yeah, but does that do hardware MPEG-2 decompression? That's one big
reason for going with the PVR-350 or an nVidia card, otherwise I
would have done exactly what you mentioned (not that I've never
thought about getting such a converter before)

>
> -I
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myth at dermanouelian

Mar 24, 2006, 2:55 AM

Post #29 of 35 (1581 views)
Permalink

Re: PVR-350 output support being dropped! [In reply to]

On Mar 24, 2006, at 12:19 AM, Kichigai Mentat wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Mar 23, 2006, at 03.58, Ian Forde wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 2006-03-23 at 01:50 -0600, Kichigai Mentat wrote:
>>
>>> Oh piffle! I was considering condensing my MythTV system, and
>>> using a
>>> PVR-350 as output, since my back-end doesn't have any AGP slots, a
>>> single PCI slot I can free up, and I wanted to include at least one
>>> more tuner. I guess I'll need to stick to my separated solution for
>>> now.
>>
>> If you've got an onboard VGA out, just use a transcoder box such
>> as an
>> Audio Authority...

Rather than continue to complain, how about we get the xv output on
the PVR-350 issues resolved so there's no reason to complain?
Personally, I would LOVE to use the xv stuff instead of the hardware
decoder so I can do stuff like time stretch and get CC without
setting it on my TV.

Sounds like the major xv issues people have are with video jumps and
unclear text in the osd. I have both of these. What can I provide
that would help someone willing to work on the problems?

I'm using a dual PIII-733 box. Frontend uses about 28% on one of the
CPU's when playing back, so it's not a processor issue. I see very
minor jumps when playing back video streams with the internal player
when recording nothing or when recording what I'm watching. I get
MAJOR jumps when recording another program - so much that I can't use
it. I've tried all the interlacing options (just out of curiosity)
and none of them look as good as when it's off. The bright OSD
doesn't bother me THAT much. I can live with it if the other stuff
works ok. And yes.. I can watch a transcoded DVD (Excellent Quality)
with xine while other programs are recording without these issues.

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beww at beww

Mar 24, 2006, 3:06 AM

Post #30 of 35 (1576 views)
Permalink

Re: PVR-350 output support being dropped! [In reply to]

On Mar 23, 2006, at 10:19 PM, Kichigai Mentat wrote:
>
> On Mar 23, 2006, at 03.58, Ian Forde wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 2006-03-23 at 01:50 -0600, Kichigai Mentat wrote:
>>
>>> Oh piffle! I was considering condensing my MythTV system, and
>>> using a
>>> PVR-350 as output, since my back-end doesn't have any AGP slots, a
>>> single PCI slot I can free up, and I wanted to include at least one
>>> more tuner. I guess I'll need to stick to my separated solution for
>>> now.
>>
>> If you've got an onboard VGA out, just use a transcoder box such
>> as an
>> Audio Authority...
>
> Yeah, but does that do hardware MPEG-2 decompression? That's one big
> reason for going with the PVR-350 or an nVidia card, otherwise I
> would have done exactly what you mentioned (not that I've never
> thought about getting such a converter before)

The Unichrome integrated video offers at least some form of mpeg-2
decoding assistance, not sure how much or how well it works.

Eventually I'd like to see hardware mpeg-4 decoding, as I believe the
world will move towards that more space-saving family of compression
algorithms. I've read that the satellite carriers are going to move
towards mpeg-4, which makes sense as fast CPUs for set-top boxes get
cheaper.

Is anyone aware of a device similar to a MediaMVP that can de-
compress mpeg-4 ? Right now that's one thing keeping my system on an
mpeg-2 standard.
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john.p.harvey at btinternet

Mar 24, 2006, 5:55 AM

Post #31 of 35 (1577 views)
Permalink

Re: PVR-350 output support being dropped! [In reply to]

--- Brad DerManouelian <myth [at] dermanouelian> wrote:

> On Mar 24, 2006, at 12:19 AM, Kichigai Mentat wrote:
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > On Mar 23, 2006, at 03.58, Ian Forde wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 2006-03-23 at 01:50 -0600, Kichigai
> Mentat wrote:
> >>
> >>> Oh piffle! I was considering condensing my
> MythTV system, and
> >>> using a
> >>> PVR-350 as output, since my back-end doesn't
> have any AGP slots, a
> >>> single PCI slot I can free up, and I wanted to
> include at least one
> >>> more tuner. I guess I'll need to stick to my
> separated solution for
> >>> now.
> >>
> >> If you've got an onboard VGA out, just use a
> transcoder box such
> >> as an
> >> Audio Authority...
>
> Rather than continue to complain, how about we get
> the xv output on
> the PVR-350 issues resolved so there's no reason to
> complain?
> Personally, I would LOVE to use the xv stuff instead
> of the hardware
> decoder so I can do stuff like time stretch and get
> CC without
> setting it on my TV.
>
> Sounds like the major xv issues people have are with
> video jumps and
> unclear text in the osd. I have both of these. What
> can I provide
> that would help someone willing to work on the
> problems?
>
> I'm using a dual PIII-733 box. Frontend uses about
> 28% on one of the
> CPU's when playing back, so it's not a processor
> issue. I see very
> minor jumps when playing back video streams with the
> internal player
> when recording nothing or when recording what I'm
> watching. I get
> MAJOR jumps when recording another program - so much
> that I can't use
> it. I've tried all the interlacing options (just out
> of curiosity)
> and none of them look as good as when it's off. The
> bright OSD
> doesn't bother me THAT much. I can live with it if
> the other stuff
> works ok. And yes.. I can watch a transcoded DVD
> (Excellent Quality)
> with xine while other programs are recording without
> these issues.
As i said at least once i believe i understand the
jumping problem. I just don't have time at the moment
to work on it but it is in my plans so hopefully
within the next few weks i will do.
I have a solid example of something that plays very
badly. I have a fix for that but at the moment there
are bad side effects for other movies so i need to
spend some time on that.

Sorry i can't promise it quicker but i do plan to fix
it.

John
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warren-lists at icruise

Mar 24, 2006, 5:56 AM

Post #32 of 35 (1608 views)
Permalink

Re: PVR-350 output support being dropped! [In reply to]

Brian Wood wrote:
> On Mar 23, 2006, at 10:19 PM, Kichigai Mentat wrote:
>
>> On Mar 23, 2006, at 03.58, Ian Forde wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Thu, 2006-03-23 at 01:50 -0600, Kichigai Mentat wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Oh piffle! I was considering condensing my MythTV system, and
>>>> using a
>>>> PVR-350 as output, since my back-end doesn't have any AGP slots, a
>>>> single PCI slot I can free up, and I wanted to include at least one
>>>> more tuner. I guess I'll need to stick to my separated solution for
>>>> now.
>>>>
>>> If you've got an onboard VGA out, just use a transcoder box such
>>> as an
>>> Audio Authority...
>>>
>> Yeah, but does that do hardware MPEG-2 decompression? That's one big
>> reason for going with the PVR-350 or an nVidia card, otherwise I
>> would have done exactly what you mentioned (not that I've never
>> thought about getting such a converter before)
>>
>
> The Unichrome integrated video offers at least some form of mpeg-2
> decoding assistance, not sure how much or how well it works.
>
> Eventually I'd like to see hardware mpeg-4 decoding, as I believe the
> world will move towards that more space-saving family of compression
> algorithms. I've read that the satellite carriers are going to move
> towards mpeg-4, which makes sense as fast CPUs for set-top boxes get
> cheaper.
>
> Is anyone aware of a device similar to a MediaMVP that can de-
> compress mpeg-4 ? Right now that's one thing keeping my system on an
> mpeg-2 standard.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
You will likely see mpeg4 hardware decompression in the OpenChrome
drivers at some point this year. You will however need the newer (CN400
or newer) chipset boards (SP series or newer) to have the hardware to
take advantage of it.

W

myth at dermanouelian

Mar 24, 2006, 6:00 AM

Post #33 of 35 (1619 views)
Permalink

Re: PVR-350 output support being dropped! [In reply to]

On Mar 24, 2006, at 8:55 AM, John Harvey wrote:

> As i said at least once i believe i understand the
> jumping problem. I just don't have time at the moment
> to work on it but it is in my plans so hopefully
> within the next few weks i will do.
> I have a solid example of something that plays very
> badly. I have a fix for that but at the moment there
> are bad side effects for other movies so i need to
> spend some time on that.
>
> Sorry i can't promise it quicker but i do plan to fix
> it.
>
> John
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

I must have missed it. That's great news! Looking forward to it.
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jeffsimpson at alum

Mar 24, 2006, 11:41 AM

Post #34 of 35 (1587 views)
Permalink

Re: PVR-350 output support being dropped! [In reply to]

> Apart from this particular bug the quality using Xv or
> mpeg decoding is similar and the cpu usage is similar
> so there is no real loss in using Xv and the gain is
> that we don't have to maintain 2 sets of code.

Really? I hadn't thought of that as a possibility. I assumed that since we
were no longer using the MPEG2 decoder and stuck with the awful framebuffer
that even with XV it would still never be as good as a normal video card. I
figured that the high-quality of the PVR-350 was due to the MPEG decoder and
thus would be gone if you used just XV. I guess I haven't done a
side-by-side comparison of XV vs MEPG2 vs nvidia svideo out

Yes this is true but i am not convinced (haven't
> looked at it) that i can use the svideo output and the
> vga output of a single nvidia card from 2 different X
> sessions so i would need to go and buy a second VGA
> card to replace the 350 i allready have. Also the
> output quality is typically lower as well.

True, you would have to "go out and buy" another card, but I mean for
newcomers to myth - it is cheaper to buy a video-out card and a PVR150 than
it is to buy a PVR-350, and you'll get better results with the combination,
thanks to the poor hardware support for the PVR-350 (it's the nature of the
beast).

So the main thing is really that most people have
> working hardware and don't want to change it and have
> to buy new hardware.

Agreed - I certainly don't want to run out and replace my PVR-350 (my nvidia
card used to have TV-Out, but it no longer works thanks to some bad
grounding in an old apartment). I just wanted to make sure that I got the
word out to the community that PVR-350 support is going the way of the dodo,
and it's best to jump ship before investing in one of these cards. It's too
bad hauppauge doesn't make a PVR-350 that just has normal X output (nvidia?)
on the svideo overlayed with the MPEG2. That would be a beautiful card:
OpenGL Menus, transitions, MPEG2 and wonderful TV out.

- Jeff

rpooser at gmail

Mar 24, 2006, 2:42 PM

Post #35 of 35 (1583 views)
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Re: PVR-350 output support being dropped! [In reply to]

Jeff Simpson wrote:
>
>
>
> Agreed - I certainly don't want to run out and replace my PVR-350 (my
> nvidia card used to have TV-Out, but it no longer works thanks to some
> bad grounding in an old apartment). I just wanted to make sure that I
> got the word out to the community that PVR-350 support is going the
> way of the dodo, and it's best to jump ship before investing in one of
> these cards. It's too bad hauppauge doesn't make a PVR-350 that just
> has normal X output (nvidia?) on the svideo overlayed with the MPEG2.
> That would be a beautiful card: OpenGL Menus, transitions, MPEG2 and
> wonderful TV out.

Sounds like a v4l compliant all in wonder... (or personal cinema). If
the hardware assisted encoding also worked.
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