Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Users

knoppmyth or mythdora

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jluckner at gmail

Mar 23, 2006, 7:29 AM

Post #1 of 16 (2288 views)
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knoppmyth or mythdora

So for those of us new to the Linux/myth game... has there ever been a
debate as to which is the better path to go down. I want to get going using
Myth and learning Linux and trying to get to the point of playing with Myth
along with the semblance of a life I try to keep isn't working.

So bring forth the flood gates... Knoppmyth or Mythdora or quit whining ya
damn M$ baby and get it working (I really have tried to give it the free
time I have available... it's just not that much)

beww at beww

Mar 23, 2006, 7:40 AM

Post #2 of 16 (2237 views)
Permalink

Re: knoppmyth or mythdora [In reply to]

On Mar 23, 2006, at 8:29 AM, Joshua Luckner wrote:

> So for those of us new to the Linux/myth game... has there ever
> been a debate as to which is the better path to go down. I want to
> get going using Myth and learning Linux and trying to get to the
> point of playing with Myth along with the semblance of a life I try
> to keep isn't working.
>
>
> So bring forth the flood gates... Knoppmyth or Mythdora or quit
> whining ya damn M$ baby and get it working (I really have tried to
> give it the free time I have available... it's just not that much)

I plan on taking up this matter as soon as I resolve the following:

1.) Which is a better text editor, VI or EMACS ??

2.) Which is the better desktop, KDE or GNOME ??

3.) What is the best Linux Distro

4.) What is the worst OS on the planet, Windows XP Home or Windows XP
Professional ??
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linux-lists at ntlworld

Mar 23, 2006, 7:45 AM

Post #3 of 16 (2257 views)
Permalink

Re: knoppmyth or mythdora [In reply to]

On Thu March 23 2006 15:29, Joshua Luckner wrote:
> So for those of us new to the Linux/myth game... has there ever been a
> debate as to which is the better path to go down. I want to get going
> using Myth and learning Linux and trying to get to the point of playing
> with Myth along with the semblance of a life I try to keep isn't working.
>
>
> So bring forth the flood gates... Knoppmyth or Mythdora or quit whining ya
> damn M$ baby and get it working (I really have tried to give it the free
> time I have available... it's just not that much)

You can even throw A.M.I.C.U.S into the mix.

http://amicus.sourceforge.net/

It's a script you run after a Debian net install
Gives you a nice lightweight installation

Give it a go

Dave
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beww at beww

Mar 23, 2006, 7:46 AM

Post #4 of 16 (2243 views)
Permalink

Re: knoppmyth or mythdora [In reply to]

On Mar 23, 2006, at 8:40 AM, Brian Wood wrote:

>
> On Mar 23, 2006, at 8:29 AM, Joshua Luckner wrote:
>
>> So for those of us new to the Linux/myth game... has there ever
>> been a debate as to which is the better path to go down. I want to
>> get going using Myth and learning Linux and trying to get to the
>> point of playing with Myth along with the semblance of a life I try
>> to keep isn't working.
>>
>>
>> So bring forth the flood gates... Knoppmyth or Mythdora or quit
>> whining ya damn M$ baby and get it working (I really have tried to
>> give it the free time I have available... it's just not that much)
>
> I plan on taking up this matter as soon as I resolve the following:
>
> 1.) Which is a better text editor, VI or EMACS ??
>
> 2.) Which is the better desktop, KDE or GNOME ??
>
> 3.) What is the best Linux Distro
>
> 4.) What is the worst OS on the planet, Windows XP Home or Windows XP
> Professional ??

But seriously, I think we should stay away from what would of
necessity be a long, contentious and in the end pointless thread, and
just continue what we are doing, which is tacitly supporting them all
to a point, even Amicus in spite of over-zealous promotion.

Or perhaps we need a MythTV-Users-Advocacy List ??
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warren-lists at icruise

Mar 23, 2006, 8:23 AM

Post #5 of 16 (2239 views)
Permalink

Re: knoppmyth or mythdora [In reply to]

Brian Wood wrote:
> On Mar 23, 2006, at 8:29 AM, Joshua Luckner wrote:
>
>
>> So for those of us new to the Linux/myth game... has there ever
>> been a debate as to which is the better path to go down. I want to
>> get going using Myth and learning Linux and trying to get to the
>> point of playing with Myth along with the semblance of a life I try
>> to keep isn't working.
>>
>>
>> So bring forth the flood gates... Knoppmyth or Mythdora or quit
>> whining ya damn M$ baby and get it working (I really have tried to
>> give it the free time I have available... it's just not that much)
>>
>
> I plan on taking up this matter as soon as I resolve the following:
>
> 1.) Which is a better text editor, VI or EMACS ??
>
> 2.) Which is the better desktop, KDE or GNOME ??
>
> 3.) What is the best Linux Distro
>
> 4.) What is the worst OS on the planet, Windows XP Home or Windows XP
> Professional ??
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
Don't you know that it's not polite to discuss religion and politics in
public?

:)
W

aclose at gmail

Mar 23, 2006, 8:30 AM

Post #6 of 16 (2234 views)
Permalink

Re: knoppmyth or mythdora [In reply to]

On 3/23/06, Brian Wood <beww [at] beww> wrote:
>
> On Mar 23, 2006, at 8:29 AM, Joshua Luckner wrote:
>
> > So for those of us new to the Linux/myth game... has there ever
> > been a debate as to which is the better path to go down. I want to
> > get going using Myth and learning Linux and trying to get to the
> > point of playing with Myth along with the semblance of a life I try
> > to keep isn't working.
> >
> >
> > So bring forth the flood gates... Knoppmyth or Mythdora or quit
> > whining ya damn M$ baby and get it working (I really have tried to
> > give it the free time I have available... it's just not that much)
>
> I plan on taking up this matter as soon as I resolve the following:
>
> 1.) Which is a better text editor, VI or EMACS ??
>
> 2.) Which is the better desktop, KDE or GNOME ??
>
> 3.) What is the best Linux Distro
>
> 4.) What is the worst OS on the planet, Windows XP Home or Windows XP
> Professional ??

oooh, you forgot Windows ME!!!
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the4hands at comcast

Mar 23, 2006, 9:22 AM

Post #7 of 16 (2245 views)
Permalink

Re: knoppmyth or mythdora [In reply to]

>So for those of us new to the Linux/myth game... has there ever >seen a
>debate as to which is the better path to go down. I want to get >going using
>Myth and learning Linux and trying to get to the point of playing >with Myth
>along with the semblance of a life I try to keep isn't working.

>So bring forth the flood gates... Knoppmyth or Mythdora or quit >whining ya
>damn M$ baby and get it working (I really have tried to give it the >free
>time I have available... it's just not that much)

Well it was only a matter of time before this question reared its ugly head. Is the glass half empty or half full? This will never be answered. The best suggestion would be to try both distros and see which one feels right for you. They're both good in my opinion.

Dennis Hand
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steve.p.daniels at googlemail

Mar 23, 2006, 10:59 AM

Post #8 of 16 (2246 views)
Permalink

Re: knoppmyth or mythdora [In reply to]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mythtv-users-bounces [at] mythtv [mailto:mythtv-users-
> bounces [at] mythtv] On Behalf Of the4hands [at] comcast
> Sent: 23 March 2006 17:23
> To: mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] knoppmyth or mythdora
>
> >So for those of us new to the Linux/myth game... has there ever >seen a
> >debate as to which is the better path to go down. I want to get >going
> using
> >Myth and learning Linux and trying to get to the point of playing >with
> Myth
> >along with the semblance of a life I try to keep isn't working.
>
>
> >So bring forth the flood gates... Knoppmyth or Mythdora or quit >whining
> ya
> >damn M$ baby and get it working (I really have tried to give it the >free
> >time I have available... it's just not that much)
>
> Well it was only a matter of time before this question reared its ugly
> head. Is the glass half empty or half full? This will never be answered.
> The best suggestion would be to try both distros and see which one feels
> right for you. They're both good in my opinion.
>
> Dennis Hand

42

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lynchaj at yahoo

Mar 23, 2006, 1:25 PM

Post #9 of 16 (2235 views)
Permalink

Re: knoppmyth or mythdora [In reply to]

On Mar 23, 2006, at 8:40 AM, Brian Wood wrote:

>
> On Mar 23, 2006, at 8:29 AM, Joshua Luckner wrote:
>
[snip]

>But seriously, I think we should stay away from what
would of
>necessity be a long, contentious and in the end
pointless thread, and
>just continue what we are doing, which is tacitly
supporting them all
>to a point, even Amicus in spite of over-zealous
promotion.
>
>Or perhaps we need a MythTV-Users-Advocacy List ??

Hey, hold on.

Isaac has made his opinion clear on my recruiting
for AMICUS.

It is his list, his rules, and I stopped. The end.

No questions.

No complaints.

So give it a rest already.

IMO, your second idea is actually a good one. There
should be a place
where it is safe for mythtv users can help other
mythtv users and
recruit for clearly mythtv related open source
projects.

If not mythtv-users, then where? If I cannot recruit
any users, my
project is as good as dead and it will not be able to
help anyone.

Andrew Lynch

PS, if I offended anyone by my recruiting for the
AMICUS project, then I apologize. It was not my intent
to spam or annoy.
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beww at beww

Mar 23, 2006, 1:45 PM

Post #10 of 16 (2233 views)
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Re: knoppmyth or mythdora [In reply to]

On Mar 23, 2006, at 2:25 PM, Andrew Lynch wrote:

>
> Isaac has made his opinion clear on my recruiting
> for AMICUS.
>

I didn't interpret the message Isaac sent you as precluding your
posting relevant information about Amicus to this list, in the same
way that others do, mentioning when a new version is available with
perhaps a few notes about what the upgrade consists of.

I felt he was commenting on frequently-repeated, lengthy posts which
contained no new information. "Spam" may have been a little strong
but he certainly got his point across, and several others seem to
have agreed.

>
> PS, if I offended anyone by my recruiting for the
> AMICUS project, then I apologize. It was not my intent
> to spam or annoy.

I never thought your intentions were anything but honorable, I think
you just got a little over-zealous about your project, something I am
sure we all have done at one time or another.

If I have interpreted Isaac's or anyone else's stand on the matter
incorrectly I'm sure I will hear about it :-)

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jchendo at gmail

Mar 23, 2006, 4:23 PM

Post #11 of 16 (2237 views)
Permalink

Re: knoppmyth or mythdora [In reply to]

On 3/24/06, Brian Wood <beww [at] beww> wrote:
>
>
> On Mar 23, 2006, at 2:25 PM, Andrew Lynch wrote:
>
> >
> > Isaac has made his opinion clear on my recruiting
> > for AMICUS.
> >
>
> I didn't interpret the message Isaac sent you as precluding your
> posting relevant information about Amicus to this list, in the same
> way that others do, mentioning when a new version is available with
> perhaps a few notes about what the upgrade consists of.
>
> I felt he was commenting on frequently-repeated, lengthy posts which
> contained no new information. "Spam" may have been a little strong
> but he certainly got his point across, and several others seem to
> have agreed.
>
> >
> > PS, if I offended anyone by my recruiting for the
> > AMICUS project, then I apologize. It was not my intent
> > to spam or annoy.
>
> I never thought your intentions were anything but honorable, I think
> you just got a little over-zealous about your project, something I am
> sure we all have done at one time or another.
>
> If I have interpreted Isaac's or anyone else's stand on the matter
> incorrectly I'm sure I will hear about it :-)
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

OK then,
I really have no idea about this, and it seems i dont really want to. :P

to answer the first posters questions (as best i can)

Knoppix myth.
this has been around for ages, it is stable and so i have read, easy to use.
I tried to install it and i dont want to take away anything form it, becuase
i was using some non standard hardware and it was the near the begining of
my Myth education. I have not tried it since, i am considering it as it can
boot a low power PC off things like a SD card or the like. There is a lot of
people using this are are very happy with it.

Mythdora
I have never tried this distro, allthough i do intend on giving it a try. I
have read most of the post on this forum regarding it. Again there is a
seperate forum for it. As of yet i have not joined, mainly cos the stupid
ISP's and telco's here is aust can get me connected to the net at home. it
should happen this sat.
All that being said, mythdora is based on the 0.19 branch and, from what i
can tell is very active. ALso it has alot of the 'extras' complied into it.
(i believe that is the right way to say it.

I do not wanna tell you how to suck eggs, but you will get a better responce
if you state your question a big more clearly and give what hardware you are
working with. If you are working with 'non standard' or 64bit processors you
are in for a world of hurt, unless you are a god like guru like, say, Mr
willson (bow down) (there are MANY other and thanks to them all for the
continued support of stupid M$ brainwashedppl) check out his page
www.wilsonet.com.au for a Mythtv how to and (no offence) a doco on how to
get a better respoce to your post.

Before you decide what to do, have a look at the common hardware people are
using.

Hope this helps.

CH

cwatson at linkline

Mar 23, 2006, 7:44 PM

Post #12 of 16 (2226 views)
Permalink

Re: knoppmyth or mythdora [In reply to]

Joshua Luckner wrote:
> So for those of us new to the Linux/myth game... has there ever been a
> debate as to which is the better path to go down. I want to get going
> using Myth and learning Linux and trying to get to the point of playing
> with Myth along with the semblance of a life I try to keep isn't working.
>
No debates as far as I'm aware. Why should there be (when KnoppMyth is
the best ;)?
>
> So bring forth the flood gates... Knoppmyth or Mythdora or quit whining
> ya damn M$ baby and get it working (I really have tried to give it the
> free time I have available... it's just not that much)
The idea behind KnoppMyth is to simply get a Linux powered, MythTV based
set-top box running in a quick and easy manner. Some people have stated
that KnoppMyth is made for the newbie. Well, it isn't. Why spend hours
compiling packages, etc., when all you want is to enjoy TV and
multimedia (simply my view, compile away to your hearts content)?

While we do try to make things simply and try to include support for as
much hardware as we can, one still needs Linux skills (if not common
sense) if a problem occurs. My personal view is build your PVR and
treat is as an appliance. If you want to learn Linux, nuke Windows and
just right in.

Regards,

Cecil

PS: I've never used MythDora and wish nothing but the best for them and
all Linux distros. And yes, I do know one doesn't need to compile
anything w/ MythDora... Just an example of what may have to do if one
chooses.
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mavantix at gmail

Mar 24, 2006, 12:49 AM

Post #13 of 16 (2221 views)
Permalink

Re: knoppmyth or mythdora [In reply to]

> The idea behind KnoppMyth is to simply get a Linux powered, MythTV based
> set-top box running in a quick and easy manner. Some people have stated
> that KnoppMyth is made for the newbie. Well, it isn't. Why spend hours
> compiling packages, etc., when all you want is to enjoy TV and
> multimedia (simply my view, compile away to your hearts content)?

I'd have to say Knoppmyth is great. I ran it back in the R4V5 -
R5V-young day, and it was good then. It has only continued to get
better, and has kept up with all the changes in ivtv, mytv, etc at a
rapid rate. I have to give Cecil alot of credit there, he's put alot
of work in producing a quicker way to get a mythbox up a running. I
think what alot of myth gurus forget is, some mythtv users don't
know/care about linux, they just want a Tivo but cooler. You get that
with Knoppmyth more easily than by learning to install Linux and
compile Myth manually.

Unfortunately, I later switched to FC4 built using Jarods guide
because I was having issues with the old kernel one of the R5 versions
I was using had. I see now that the latest versions of Knoppmyth
include newer kernels, and I really want to go back. My FC4 install is
working fine, but it's a lot easier to upgrade *everything* on
Knoppmyth than it is on FC4... not to mention, dealing with RPM's in a
P.I.M.A. However, I've been working on *nix boxes for 10+ years, so
they don't scare me too much anymore...

One thing Knoppmyth lacks is an over the internet 'dist upgrade'
feature so you can do an inplace update of everything without
destroying what is already there... upgrading from CD is a bit kludgy,
but seriously, install Knoppmyth, spend a couple days getting things
refined and setup the way you want, open a beer and enjoy your
Mythbox. If anyone calls you a newb, laugh in their face and show them
how much their tivo sucks.

-Kenneth
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lynchaj at yahoo

Mar 24, 2006, 4:21 AM

Post #14 of 16 (2209 views)
Permalink

Re: knoppmyth or mythdora [In reply to]

Cecil wrote:

[snip]

The idea behind KnoppMyth is to simply get a Linux
powered, MythTV based set-top box running in a quick
and easy manner. Some people have stated that
KnoppMyth is made for the newbie. Well, it isnt. Why
spend hours compiling packages, etc., when all you
want is to enjoy TV and multimedia (simply my view,
compile away to your hearts content)?

While we do try to make things simply and try to
include support for as much hardware as we can, one
still needs Linux skills (if not common sense) if a
problem occurs. My personal view is build your PVR and
treat is as an appliance. If you want to learn Linux,
nuke Windows and just right in.

Regards,

Cecil

PS: Ive never used MythDora and wish nothing but the
best for them and all Linux distros. And yes, I do
know one doesnt need to compile anything w/
MythDora... Just an example of what may have to do if
one chooses.

I agree with Cecil. As a long time user of Knoppmyth,
it is an easy to use standalone distribution, and a
fine one at that, provided you have some basic Linux
skills. However, it is definitely not designed for
newbies. I have used it for more than two years and
like it a lot.

I do not know anything about MythDora so I do not
comment on them other than to wish them the best of
luck as well.

On the other hand, the main reason I started AMICUS
was specifically FOR helping the newbies and
inexperienced users. The goal is to lower the barriers
to entry that keep many new users floundering on the
lists/forums (like this one and others) -- many of
whom give up in despair. I believe the project fills
an unoccupied niche as there are no other MythTV
projects dedicated solely to helping the newbies (that
I know of) especially on the older reused PCs they
frequently have.

Try to put yourself in the position of the
Linux/MythTV newbie: (I know that may be hard for
some, but please humor me). Linux and MythTV hold a
lot of positive attractions but unless you can get ALL
the necessary components (basic OS, X, ALSA, MySQL,
the tuner, MythTV etc) working relatively quickly you
end up with frustrating mess. The various HOWTOs age
quickly and are often out of date leading to even more
confusion.

So to bring this back on topic, just because there are
different MythTV related distributions and projects
does not mean that one is necessarily *better*. It
depends on the target audience and is highly
subjective.

Someone said earlier in this thread that all the
various projects should be tacitly supported and I
think that is the best approach. If anything, the
various projects seem more complimentary than
competitive, each with their own unique audience.

Andrew Lynch

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stangage70 at gmail

Mar 24, 2006, 9:20 AM

Post #15 of 16 (2212 views)
Permalink

Re: knoppmyth or mythdora [In reply to]

On 3/23/06, Joshua Luckner <jluckner [at] gmail> wrote:
>
> So for those of us new to the Linux/myth game... has there ever been a
> debate as to which is the better path to go down. I want to get going using
> Myth and learning Linux and trying to get to the point of playing with Myth
> along with the semblance of a life I try to keep isn't working.
>
>
> So bring forth the flood gates... Knoppmyth or Mythdora or quit whining ya
> damn M$ baby and get it working (I really have tried to give it the free
> time I have available... it's just not that much)
>

When I discovered MythTV, I used Knoppmyth to try it out. It was a very
quick and easy installation... It worked well for most things, however I
quickly found notable limitations such as the lack of easy support for SATA
drives and limited upgrade capabilities outside of newer releases of
Knoppmyth.

As Mythdora is on Fedora, and I am not a Linux God, I appreciate being able
to use things like Jarrod's guide to understand the configuration. I plan
to use Mythdora on my next Myth incarnation (HD tuners) as it will support
my larger SATA drives and an interface I am more used to (Fedora/KDE). The
past Mythdora was not as applicable as it was FC3, which didn't have the
Kernel packages required for my Air2PC cards. I also appreciate the
inclusion of Mythburn, Mythstream, and MediaMVP support.

Either can save one lots of time if you have a standard (common)
configuration.

troy.w.roberts at gmail

Mar 24, 2006, 3:55 PM

Post #16 of 16 (2210 views)
Permalink

Re: knoppmyth or mythdora [In reply to]

My $0.02

I am a longtime Debian user, and manage / maintain a fleet of about 30+
debian workstations and servers in RL. I have been a Myth user in various
incarnations for 2+ years now.

I originally started with a RH based setup following J. WIlson's guide (tips
hat) and that worked very well, but I personally was not 'comfortable' with
the subtle differences betweeh RH and the Deb systems I used every day.

I switched to a 'roll my own' solution based on Debian and the Myth debs,
and again with a little tinkering had a good working solution, but then got
tired of trying to keep it maintained. So KnoppyMyth seemed like something
worth a try. I don't particularily care for Knoppix as a distro (IMHO it
does some things great, and others so-so), but for a turnkey solution like
the KnoppMyth Team has created it is perfect (tips hit again).

I have been running KnoppMyth now for over a year, and it is the best Myth
experience I have had out of all that I have tried - unless you have some
really funky hardware, 'it just works' - in some of the earlier releases
there were some issues I encountered with my all SATA configs, but those
were kernel related, and not necessarily KnoppMyth isses, and have since
been resolved.

I can't say enough good things about what they have created.

This is not to say the RH based solutions don't work, but you should pick a
solution based on the distro you are comfortable with - if you don't have a
favourite, pick a 'turnkey' solution and just let it do it's mojo and who
cares what distro it is based on.......

>
>

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