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Dual HDTV Tuner Requirements

 

 

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Jon at digitalally

Mar 4, 2005, 10:05 PM

Post #1 of 6 (4069 views)
Permalink
Dual HDTV Tuner Requirements

I've been reading that HDTV decoding takes a substantial amount of
processing power. I was wondering if anyone has gotten 2 or more HDTV
tuner cards working with myth, and, if so, what the CPU and memory
requirements would be. I'm considering replacing 2 UltimateTV boxes
with myth. The UltimateTVs each have 2 tuners, so I'd want a setup
where I could record 4 shows at once (ideally). That could be 2 boxes
with 2 tuners or 1 backend with 4 tuners.



Thanks!


jarod at wilsonet

Mar 4, 2005, 10:44 PM

Post #2 of 6 (3927 views)
Permalink
Re: Dual HDTV Tuner Requirements [In reply to]

On Friday 04 March 2005 22:05, Jonathan M. Cooper wrote:
> I've been reading that HDTV decoding takes a substantial amount of
> processing power.

Note that this is only an issue at playback time. Recording is more or less a
simple matter of writing the incoming mpeg2 stream to disk, very little cpu
usage.

> I was wondering if anyone has gotten 2 or more HDTV
> tuner cards working with myth

2 HDTV tuner cards and a FireWire cable box here (and a few more analog
tuners).

> and, if so, what the CPU and memory
> requirements would be.

Not much difference from a system handling one HDTV tuner, though you may want
extra cpu headroom if all commercial cutting runs on the same box you're
viewing with. With recent HDTV playback performance improvements, I believe a
3GHz P4 w/512MB of RAM and a GeForce FX 5200 or a 6200 should be sufficient
for what you're after.

--
Jarod Wilson
jarod[at]wilsonet.com

Got a question? Read this first...
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
MythTV, Fedora Core & ATrpms documentation:
http://wilsonet.com/mythtv/
MythTV Searchable Mailing List Archive
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/


brad+myth at templetons

Mar 5, 2005, 12:03 AM

Post #3 of 6 (3892 views)
Permalink
Re: Dual HDTV Tuner Requirements [In reply to]

On Sat, Mar 05, 2005 at 01:05:19AM -0500, Jonathan M. Cooper wrote:
> I've been reading that HDTV decoding takes a substantial amount of
> processing power. I was wondering if anyone has gotten 2 or more HDTV
> tuner cards working with myth, and, if so, what the CPU and memory
> requirements would be. I'm considering replacing 2 UltimateTV boxes
> with myth. The UltimateTVs each have 2 tuners, so I'd want a setup
> where I could record 4 shows at once (ideally). That could be 2 boxes
> with 2 tuners or 1 backend with 4 tuners.

While Jarod answered your rought question, your wording belies the
common misconception about what the hdtv tuner cards do. They
do almost nothing (they are only expensive because they are small
volume.) They just receive a digital bitstream off the air, and your
PC does nothing but write it to disk. It takes effectively zero CPU
to do this, you could fill your machine with cards and barely notice it
as it recorded 5 shows at once.

While the pchdtv-3000 also has a raw NTSC capture component (not yet
fully supported in myth) the ATSC tuner does nothing else. It can't
take HDTV from a cable box or satellite box. It can't encode mpegs
or decode them. It can (just recently) receive non-encrypted digital
cable (a tiny fraction of the cable channels, but often including the
local HD ones.)

It's just a radio receiver and demodulator of a pre-compressed,
pre-encoded bitstream.

The UTV, like other boxes, has NTSC tuner cards including an mpeg
encoder for each tuner. Your HD tuner card won't do this. In
the future, proper support for the raw NTSC capture will be in
place and you could record NTSC -- but that will take CPU, a fair
chunk of it, to record to mp4, and so you probably would not be able
to record 2 mp4s, for example, and also watch hdtv, though right
now I have not heard anybody benchmark what it takes to do this.


Jon at digitalally

Mar 6, 2005, 4:59 AM

Post #4 of 6 (3881 views)
Permalink
Re: Dual HDTV Tuner Requirements [In reply to]

Thanks for your response. Does that mean that PIP is not feasible with,
say, a P4 3.2GHz?

-----Original Message-----

Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 22:44:51 -0800
From: Jarod Wilson <jarod[at]wilsonet.com>
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Dual HDTV Tuner Requirements
To: Discussion about mythtv <mythtv-users[at]mythtv.org>
Message-ID: <200503042244.51967.jarod[at]wilsonet.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On Friday 04 March 2005 22:05, Jonathan M. Cooper wrote:
> I've been reading that HDTV decoding takes a substantial amount of
> processing power.

Note that this is only an issue at playback time. Recording is more or
less a
simple matter of writing the incoming mpeg2 stream to disk, very little
cpu
usage.

> I was wondering if anyone has gotten 2 or more HDTV
> tuner cards working with myth

2 HDTV tuner cards and a FireWire cable box here (and a few more analog
tuners).

> and, if so, what the CPU and memory
> requirements would be.

Not much difference from a system handling one HDTV tuner, though you
may want
extra cpu headroom if all commercial cutting runs on the same box you're

viewing with. With recent HDTV playback performance improvements, I
believe a
3GHz P4 w/512MB of RAM and a GeForce FX 5200 or a 6200 should be
sufficient
for what you're after.

--
Jarod Wilson
jarod[at]wilsonet.com

Got a question? Read this first...
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
MythTV, Fedora Core & ATrpms documentation:
http://wilsonet.com/mythtv/
MythTV Searchable Mailing List Archive
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/
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brad+myth at templetons

Mar 6, 2005, 1:02 PM

Post #5 of 6 (3928 views)
Permalink
Re: Dual HDTV Tuner Requirements [In reply to]

On Sun, Mar 06, 2005 at 07:59:10AM -0500, Jonathan M. Cooper wrote:
> Thanks for your response. Does that mean that PIP is not feasible with,
> say, a P4 3.2GHz?

I remain curious as to why people want PiP when they have MythTV. Many
people who use Myth stop watching live TV altogether, and I am amazed that
the desire would remain to watch _two_ live TVs.

But indeed, it might be a CPU problem since nobody has written yet a
"clever" mpeg decoder which knows it is decoding for a tiny size and thus
avoids the cpu load of decoding for full size and rescaling.

A number of people are interested in such a decoder, since it would allow
some people with older processors to watch HDTV recordings on their SDTVs.
Still SDTV, but a fair bit better than NTSC recording.

The EyeTV program for the Mac has such a clever decoder, so it is possible.


jarod at wilsonet

Mar 7, 2005, 1:09 AM

Post #6 of 6 (3858 views)
Permalink
Re: Dual HDTV Tuner Requirements [In reply to]

On Sunday 06 March 2005 13:02, Brad Templeton wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 06, 2005 at 07:59:10AM -0500, Jonathan M. Cooper wrote:
> > Thanks for your response. Does that mean that PIP is not feasible with,
> > say, a P4 3.2GHz?
>
> I remain curious as to why people want PiP when they have MythTV. Many
> people who use Myth stop watching live TV altogether, and I am amazed that
> the desire would remain to watch _two_ live TVs.

I second that. :-) My live TV watching has dropped to nearly zero since
getting Myth'd up about two years ago.

> But indeed, it might be a CPU problem since nobody has written yet a
> "clever" mpeg decoder which knows it is decoding for a tiny size and thus
> avoids the cpu load of decoding for full size and rescaling.
>
> A number of people are interested in such a decoder, since it would allow
> some people with older processors to watch HDTV recordings on their SDTVs.
> Still SDTV, but a fair bit better than NTSC recording.
>
> The EyeTV program for the Mac has such a clever decoder, so it is possible.

El Gato does some good work. I used to have one of the first EyeTV products
(external USB SDTV tuner), but sold it on eBay a few months ago, since it had
been sitting around collecting dust for ages. It'd be pretty slick if their
products (including their FireWire HDTV capture box) could be used as Myth
capture devices under Mac OS X.

--
Jarod Wilson
jarod[at]wilsonet.com

Got a question? Read this first...
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
MythTV, Fedora Core & ATrpms documentation:
http://wilsonet.com/mythtv/
MythTV Searchable Mailing List Archive
http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/

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