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Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT.

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dmoo1790 at ihug

Jun 5, 2012, 9:27 PM

Post #1 of 30 (1520 views)
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Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT.

I've been thinking about what my Dad will do when the analogue switch
off occurs. I suspect it's not possible to build a reliable dual tuner
DVB-T system at a price comparable to the commercial PVRs. Any comments?

If I'm right and he/we starts looking for a commercial PVR to replace
the VCR, any thoughts on good boxes? Seems many are quite flaky.

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criggie at criggie

Jun 5, 2012, 9:43 PM

Post #2 of 30 (1482 views)
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Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

David Moore wrote:
> I've been thinking about what my Dad will do when the analogue switch
> off occurs. I suspect it's not possible to build a reliable dual tuner
> DVB-T system at a price comparable to the commercial PVRs. Any comments?
>
> If I'm right and he/we starts looking for a commercial PVR to replace
> the VCR, any thoughts on good boxes? Seems many are quite flaky.

You get what you pay for, and pretty much everyone on this list chose
MythTV. So I doubt there's going to be many useful suggestions from the
list members :)

How about you get VDSL with a 5-6 Mbit/sec upload, set up a tunnel from
his home router to yours, and simply stream recordings off your backend to
him?

Caps could be an issue though, so look for an ISP with zero-rated internal
traffic like TCL.

--
Criggie

http://criggie.org.nz/

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bmcvicker at deloitte

Jun 5, 2012, 9:47 PM

Post #3 of 30 (1485 views)
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Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

I built my system 'on the cheap' using an ex-lease box ($60) + tuner ($130) + graphics ($120?) + additional hard drives ($220). It still cost me around $500 - $600 which is twice as much as what the wife thinks it did!
Money well spent though.

-----Original Message-----
From: mythtvnz-bounces [at] lists [mailto:mythtvnz-bounces [at] lists] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Wednesday, 6 June 2012 4:28 p.m.
To: MythTV in NZ
Subject: [mythtvnz] Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT.

I've been thinking about what my Dad will do when the analogue switch off occurs. I suspect it's not possible to build a reliable dual tuner DVB-T system at a price comparable to the commercial PVRs. Any comments?

If I'm right and he/we starts looking for a commercial PVR to replace the VCR, any thoughts on good boxes? Seems many are quite flaky.

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alick.wilson at braithwaite

Jun 5, 2012, 9:48 PM

Post #4 of 30 (1498 views)
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Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

I have a MagicTV MTC3600TD DVR. It is the predecessor of the current
MTV3700TD, refer http://www.magictv.co.nz.

I did extensive research on the Internet before buying.

It is an excellent box, and I highly recommend it or its successor.

It has had the occasional glitch, which typically results in a restart.
However, I would not describe it as "flaky", I would describe it as "robust"
but not perfect.

The manufacturer provides firmware updates (download and USB) and the NZ
agent provides excellent, knowledgeable and responsive support. (I had a lot
of contact with them over lip sync problems, quickly resolved with firmware
update.)

If I was buying again today, I would probably buy the MTV3700TD.

However, these DVRs and all other commercial DVRs have a major failing, and
that is that they are only dual tuner. With a 5-minute overlap at the end of
all recordings to allow for programmes running late, that often means I
cannot record two programmes simultaneously.

So, I intend to build myself a triple tuner MythTV box when I have the time.

Alick Wilson

-----Original Message-----
From: mythtvnz-bounces [at] lists
[mailto:mythtvnz-bounces [at] lists] On Behalf Of David Moore
Sent: Wednesday, 6 June 2012 4:28 p.m.
To: MythTV in NZ
Subject: [mythtvnz] Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT.

I've been thinking about what my Dad will do when the analogue switch
off occurs. I suspect it's not possible to build a reliable dual tuner
DVB-T system at a price comparable to the commercial PVRs. Any comments?

If I'm right and he/we starts looking for a commercial PVR to replace
the VCR, any thoughts on good boxes? Seems many are quite flaky.

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dmoo1790 at ihug

Jun 5, 2012, 10:05 PM

Post #5 of 30 (1484 views)
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Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

On Wed, 6 Jun 2012 16:43:24 +1200, "Criggie" <criggie [at] criggie>
wrote:
> David Moore wrote:
>> I've been thinking about what my Dad will do when the analogue switch
>> off occurs. I suspect it's not possible to build a reliable dual tuner
>> DVB-T system at a price comparable to the commercial PVRs. Any comments?
>>
>> If I'm right and he/we starts looking for a commercial PVR to replace
>> the VCR, any thoughts on good boxes? Seems many are quite flaky.
>
>
> You get what you pay for, and pretty much everyone on this list chose
> MythTV. So I doubt there's going to be many useful suggestions from the
> list members :)
>

Er, yeah. I chose it myself but it cost me a crap load more than a
commercial PVR. But maybe someone has built a system a lot cheaper than I
did.

> How about you get VDSL with a 5-6 Mbit/sec upload, set up a tunnel from
> his home router to yours, and simply stream recordings off your backend
to
> him?
>
> Caps could be an issue though, so look for an ISP with zero-rated
internal
> traffic like TCL.

Caps would be the least of the issues with this solution. I guess you may
be joking.

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dba008nz at yahoo

Jun 5, 2012, 10:46 PM

Post #6 of 30 (1478 views)
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Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

You can't beat the price of a Tivo at $222 from bond & bond. I have 2 of
them and a MYTH box. I use the Tivo all the time, don't use the Myth box
much anymore.

On 6/06/2012 5:05 p.m., dmoo1790 [at] ihug wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Jun 2012 16:43:24 +1200, "Criggie"<criggie [at] criggie>
> wrote:
>> David Moore wrote:
>>> I've been thinking about what my Dad will do when the analogue switch
>>> off occurs. I suspect it's not possible to build a reliable dual tuner
>>> DVB-T system at a price comparable to the commercial PVRs. Any comments?
>>>
>>> If I'm right and he/we starts looking for a commercial PVR to replace
>>> the VCR, any thoughts on good boxes? Seems many are quite flaky.
>>
>> You get what you pay for, and pretty much everyone on this list chose
>> MythTV. So I doubt there's going to be many useful suggestions from the
>> list members :)
>>
> Er, yeah. I chose it myself but it cost me a crap load more than a
> commercial PVR. But maybe someone has built a system a lot cheaper than I
> did.
>
>> How about you get VDSL with a 5-6 Mbit/sec upload, set up a tunnel from
>> his home router to yours, and simply stream recordings off your backend
> to
>> him?
>>
>> Caps could be an issue though, so look for an ISP with zero-rated
> internal
>> traffic like TCL.
> Caps would be the least of the issues with this solution. I guess you may
> be joking.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz [at] lists
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
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>

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stephen_agent at jsw

Jun 5, 2012, 10:56 PM

Post #7 of 30 (1474 views)
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Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

On Wed, 6 Jun 2012 04:47:41 +0000, you wrote:

>I built my system 'on the cheap' using an ex-lease box ($60) + tuner ($130) + graphics ($120?) + additional hard drives ($220). It still cost me around $500 - $600 which is twice as much as what the wife thinks it did!
>Money well spent though.

That would have been my suggestion too - a second hand box, not too
old, then add the bits needed for a good MythTV box, such as an Nvidia
220 card or better (preferably a silent one), a dual tuner and another
big hard drive. Add another tuner and hard drive when it can be
afforded. You only need 1 Gbyte of RAM, although 2 Gbytes is good if
you want to run commercial flagging. It is better to have a 64 bit
processor, but a box from 4-5 years ago should be good.

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criggie at criggie

Jun 6, 2012, 12:57 AM

Post #8 of 30 (1480 views)
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Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

On 06/06/12 17:05, dmoo1790 [at] ihug wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Jun 2012 16:43:24 +1200, "Criggie"<criggie [at] criggie>
>> How about you get VDSL with a 5-6 Mbit/sec upload, set up a tunnel from
>> his home router to yours, and simply stream recordings off your backend
>> to him?
>> Caps could be an issue though, so look for an ISP with zero-rated internal
>> traffic like TCL.
>
> Caps would be the least of the issues with this solution. I guess you may
> be joking.

Only slightly - I've been meaning to try streaming over my spanky new
VDSL to work, just haven't had time.

What other issues do you anticipate?
* Latency - I get 5.5 ms over VDSL to work, and 44-48ms over an ADSL
through my VDSL. Should be workable
* Bandwidth
speedtest returns 40.1 Mbit down and 7.3 Mbit up to Snap in Chch
iperf returns 58.4 Mbit down.

What else? I know my old 802.11b wireless NIC was almost perfect, and
that only returned about 5 Mbit of actual throughput.
And I'm only thinking about SD not HD.

But back to the original question of low-cost mythbox... The cheapest
way is to use stuff you already have.
My first mythbox had 3x30 GB Maxtor IDE drives in a raid0 (this was
before the days of storage pools).
So find what you got and what you don't have, and let us know.

--
Criggie

http://criggie.org.nz/

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dmoo1790 at ihug

Jun 6, 2012, 1:19 AM

Post #9 of 30 (1474 views)
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Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

On 06/06/12 19:57, criggie wrote:
> On 06/06/12 17:05, dmoo1790 [at] ihug wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Jun 2012 16:43:24 +1200, "Criggie"<criggie [at] criggie>
>>> How about you get VDSL with a 5-6 Mbit/sec upload, set up a tunnel from
>>> his home router to yours, and simply stream recordings off your backend
>>> to him?
>>> Caps could be an issue though, so look for an ISP with zero-rated
>>> internal
>>> traffic like TCL.
>>
>> Caps would be the least of the issues with this solution. I guess you may
>> be joking.
>
> Only slightly - I've been meaning to try streaming over my spanky new
> VDSL to work, just haven't had time.
>
> What other issues do you anticipate?
> * Latency - I get 5.5 ms over VDSL to work, and 44-48ms over an ADSL
> through my VDSL. Should be workable
> * Bandwidth
> speedtest returns 40.1 Mbit down and 7.3 Mbit up to Snap in Chch
> iperf returns 58.4 Mbit down.
>
> What else? I know my old 802.11b wireless NIC was almost perfect, and
> that only returned about 5 Mbit of actual throughput.
> And I'm only thinking about SD not HD.
>

? AFAIK TVNZ and Medaiworks are doing pretty high bit rates on their
main channels (TV1/2/3). Around 10 Mbit/s I believe. Maybe you're
talking about DVB-S?

But the real problem is putting something together as simple and stable
as a VCR for someone in their 70's with little patience with technology.
For example Dad has never used the Wifi feature on his DSL box and I
think he still uses a very old PC and dial-up modem to get his personal
emails! I foresee his patience evaporating very quickly with anything
which is much more than plug and play.

>
>
> But back to the original question of low-cost mythbox... The cheapest
> way is to use stuff you already have.
> My first mythbox had 3x30 GB Maxtor IDE drives in a raid0 (this was
> before the days of storage pools).
> So find what you got and what you don't have, and let us know.
>
>

Basically nothing which I would use as a basis for myth. Tivo is looking
more and more like the best way to go...

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dmoo1790 at ihug

Jun 6, 2012, 1:24 AM

Post #10 of 30 (1471 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

On 06/06/12 17:46, DB wrote:
> You can't beat the price of a Tivo at $222 from bond & bond. I have 2 of
> them and a MYTH box. I use the Tivo all the time, don't use the Myth box
> much anymore.
>

Yes, from exhaustive (well an hour or so) research it seems Tivo is a
good option. If they would only do an "over-the-air" EPG I would say it
was a no-brainer. Still seems it might not be so bad if the Tivo manual
recording UI looks similar to the VCR UI, i.e., run it without an
internet connection.

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nick.rout at gmail

Jun 6, 2012, 1:26 AM

Post #11 of 30 (1472 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 8:19 PM, David Moore <dmoo1790 [at] ihug> wrote:
> On 06/06/12 19:57, criggie wrote:
>>
>> On 06/06/12 17:05, dmoo1790 [at] ihug wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, 6 Jun 2012 16:43:24 +1200, "Criggie"<criggie [at] criggie>
>>>>
>>>> How about you get VDSL with a 5-6 Mbit/sec upload, set up a tunnel from
>>>> his home router to yours, and simply stream recordings off your backend
>>>> to him?
>>>> Caps could be an issue though, so look for an ISP with zero-rated
>>>> internal
>>>> traffic like TCL.
>>>
>>>
>>> Caps would be the least of the issues with this solution. I guess you may
>>> be joking.
>>
>>
>> Only slightly - I've been meaning to try streaming over my spanky new
>> VDSL to work, just haven't had time.
>>
>> What other issues do you anticipate?
>> * Latency - I get 5.5 ms over VDSL to work, and 44-48ms over an ADSL
>> through my VDSL. Should be workable
>> * Bandwidth
>> speedtest returns 40.1 Mbit down and 7.3 Mbit up to Snap in Chch
>> iperf returns 58.4 Mbit down.
>>
>> What else? I know my old 802.11b wireless NIC was almost perfect, and
>> that only returned about 5 Mbit of actual throughput.
>> And I'm only thinking about SD not HD.
>>
>
> ? AFAIK TVNZ and Medaiworks are doing pretty high bit rates on their main
> channels (TV1/2/3). Around 10 Mbit/s I believe. Maybe you're talking about
> DVB-S?
>
> But the real problem is putting something together as simple and stable as a
> VCR for someone in their 70's with little patience with technology. For
> example Dad has never used the Wifi feature on his DSL box and I think he
> still uses a very old PC and dial-up modem to get his personal emails! I
> foresee his patience evaporating very quickly with anything which is much
> more than plug and play.
>
>
>>
>>
>> But back to the original question of low-cost mythbox... The cheapest
>> way is to use stuff you already have.
>> My first mythbox had 3x30 GB Maxtor IDE drives in a raid0 (this was
>> before the days of storage pools).
>> So find what you got and what you don't have, and let us know.
>>
>>
>
> Basically nothing which I would use as a basis for myth. Tivo is looking
> more and more like the best way to go...

Does he record at present? Does he want to? I find many people who
can't use a VCR. I find people who could use a VCR but have no clue
about using their DVD or hard drive recorders. Maybe a DVR will be too
complex for him.

In which case a simple DVB-S/DVB-T set top box may be sufficient.

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nick.rout at gmail

Jun 6, 2012, 1:27 AM

Post #12 of 30 (1474 views)
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Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

>
> Does he record at present? Does he want to? I find many people who
> can't use a VCR. I find people who could use a VCR but have no clue
> about using their DVD or hard drive recorders. Maybe a DVR will be too
> complex for him.
>
> In which case a simple DVB-S/DVB-T set top box may be sufficient.

Having said that the Magic box recommended by someone else has a great
reputation.

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dmoo1790 at ihug

Jun 6, 2012, 1:42 AM

Post #13 of 30 (1476 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

On 06/06/12 16:48, Alick Wilson wrote:
> I have a MagicTV MTC3600TD DVR. It is the predecessor of the current
> MTV3700TD, refer http://www.magictv.co.nz.
>
> I did extensive research on the Internet before buying.
>
> It is an excellent box, and I highly recommend it or its successor.
>
> It has had the occasional glitch, which typically results in a restart.
> However, I would not describe it as "flaky", I would describe it as "robust"
> but not perfect.
>

IMHO an occasional restart is a pretty big issue for someone who is used
to the rock solid reliability of a VCR. That's the benchmark I believe.
What you or I might accept in search of the latest tech would not be
acceptable to someone who just wants a replacement for their VCR.

BTW I would rate a myth system as way ahead of any of the cheaper
commercial PVRs for stability. My system has _never_ failed. Sure it's
not totally bug-free but it's never had the pixellation/restart/other
issues which seem to be so prevalent with commercial boxes. (Disclosure:
I am afflicted with an annoying audio/video sync problem after upgrading
to 0.25. Never had this before I upgraded recently.)

> The manufacturer provides firmware updates (download and USB) and the NZ
> agent provides excellent, knowledgeable and responsive support. (I had a lot
> of contact with them over lip sync problems, quickly resolved with firmware
> update.)
>
> If I was buying again today, I would probably buy the MTV3700TD.
>
> However, these DVRs and all other commercial DVRs have a major failing, and
> that is that they are only dual tuner. With a 5-minute overlap at the end of
> all recordings to allow for programmes running late, that often means I
> cannot record two programmes simultaneously.
>
> So, I intend to build myself a triple tuner MythTV box when I have the time.
>

Interesting. I have a dual tuner myth system and I almost never find I
need a third tuner. Do the commercial PVRs support recording more than
one show per mux? Myth does which means you could record simultaneously
every show broadcast by TVNZ and Mediaworks for instance. Or do you
really need to record from all three muxes simultaneously?

> Alick Wilson
>

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paulgir at gmail

Jun 6, 2012, 1:44 AM

Post #14 of 30 (1477 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

On Wed, 06 Jun 2012 20:27:50 +1200, Nick Rout <nick.rout [at] gmail> wrote:

>>
>> Does he record at present? Does he want to? I find many people who
>> can't use a VCR. I find people who could use a VCR but have no clue
>> about using their DVD or hard drive recorders. Maybe a DVR will be too
>> complex for him.
>>
>> In which case a simple DVB-S/DVB-T set top box may be sufficient.
>
> Having said that the Magic box recommended by someone else has a great
> reputation.
>
I was just reading the blurb on the Magic box.
Am I right in thinking that none off these commercial pvrs record more
than two programs with their dual tuners?
i.e. they can't record multiple channels off a single multiplex using one
tuner as MythTV can.

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nick.rout at gmail

Jun 6, 2012, 1:45 AM

Post #15 of 30 (1474 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Nick Rout <nick.rout [at] gmail> wrote:
>>
>> Does he record at present? Does he want to? I find many people who
>> can't use a VCR. I find people who could use a VCR but have no clue
>> about using their DVD or hard drive recorders. Maybe a DVR will be too
>> complex for him.
>>
>> In which case a simple DVB-S/DVB-T set top box may be sufficient.
>
> Having said that the Magic box recommended by someone else has a great
> reputation.

If I wanted to build a cheap but slightly limited system I would get a
dual core revo for around $450 from trademe. It will have a 320G hard
drive and if you get the right model will have USB3 or eSata for an
external drive, usb2 in any event. In other words easy to add further
storage.

Add a USB DVB-T tuner for under $100 and one of these remotes for
$13US http://rtr.ca/sapphire_remote/

That's less than the magic box but only has one tuner, unless you find
a dual tuner USB job - not sure if they exist. You could really do
with 3 tuners for DVB-T (as there are 3 muxes). Adding a HDHR will get
you 2 more (or get one to start with - I am not sure of the new NZ
price.)

Things get more complex if he doesn't have hdmi on his TV, as a decent
video card (ie nvidia with vdpau support) with analogue out is hard to
find. But if you have to buy a new TV get one like an LG with built in
freeview and ability to record to USB hard drive (but I guess only one
tuner, don't know if it can multirec).

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nick.rout at gmail

Jun 6, 2012, 1:47 AM

Post #16 of 30 (1472 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 8:44 PM, Paulgir <paulgir [at] gmail> wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Jun 2012 20:27:50 +1200, Nick Rout <nick.rout [at] gmail> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Does he record at present? Does he want to? I find many people who
>>> can't use a VCR. I find people who could use a VCR but have no clue
>>> about using their DVD or hard drive recorders. Maybe a DVR will be too
>>> complex for him.
>>>
>>> In which case a simple DVB-S/DVB-T set top box may be sufficient.
>>
>>
>> Having said that the Magic box recommended by someone else has a great
>> reputation.
>>
> I was just reading the blurb on the Magic box.
> Am I right in thinking that none off these commercial pvrs record more than
> two programs with their dual tuners?
> i.e. they can't record multiple channels off a single multiplex using one
> tuner as MythTV can.

I think they do not do multirec. They should be able to, it's the
manufacturer's choice.

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dmoo1790 at ihug

Jun 6, 2012, 1:54 AM

Post #17 of 30 (1474 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

On 06/06/12 20:27, Nick Rout wrote:
>>
>> Does he record at present? Does he want to? I find many people who
>> can't use a VCR. I find people who could use a VCR but have no clue
>> about using their DVD or hard drive recorders. Maybe a DVR will be too
>> complex for him.
>>
>> In which case a simple DVB-S/DVB-T set top box may be sufficient.
>

Yes, he does record stuff. He's not a total Luddite. :) The VCR
recording UI is pretty simple. Maybe you've forgotten how simple since
you haven't used one for so long. :)

> Having said that the Magic box recommended by someone else has a great
> reputation.
>

Except for the occasional restarts mentioned. When was the last time a
VCR threw a restart? Maybe I'm the Luddite pining for the good ole days
of tape. :) No, not really.

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nick.rout at gmail

Jun 6, 2012, 1:57 AM

Post #18 of 30 (1471 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 8:54 PM, David Moore <dmoo1790 [at] ihug> wrote:
> On 06/06/12 20:27, Nick Rout wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Does he record at present? Does he want to? I find many people who
>>> can't use a VCR. I find people who could use a VCR but have no clue
>>> about using their DVD or hard drive recorders. Maybe a DVR will be too
>>> complex for him.
>>>
>>> In which case a simple DVB-S/DVB-T set top box may be sufficient.
>>
>>
>
> Yes, he does record stuff. He's not a total Luddite. :) The VCR recording UI
> is pretty simple. Maybe you've forgotten how simple since you haven't used
> one for so long. :)
>
>
>> Having said that the Magic box recommended by someone else has a great
>> reputation.
>>
>
> Except for the occasional restarts mentioned.

What i think i meant was "best of an average bunch". If they were as
good as myth I'd buy one and stop spending al lmy time on these
mailing lists!

> When was the last time a VCR
> threw a restart? Maybe I'm the Luddite pining for the good ole days of tape.
> :) No, not really.
>

I loved my mitsubishi hifi video recorder, although I also used it a
lot to record music.

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dmoo1790 at ihug

Jun 6, 2012, 1:59 AM

Post #19 of 30 (1469 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

On 06/06/12 20:45, Nick Rout wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Nick Rout<nick.rout [at] gmail> wrote:
>>>
>>> Does he record at present? Does he want to? I find many people who
>>> can't use a VCR. I find people who could use a VCR but have no clue
>>> about using their DVD or hard drive recorders. Maybe a DVR will be too
>>> complex for him.
>>>
>>> In which case a simple DVB-S/DVB-T set top box may be sufficient.
>>
>> Having said that the Magic box recommended by someone else has a great
>> reputation.
>
> If I wanted to build a cheap but slightly limited system I would get a
> dual core revo for around $450 from trademe. It will have a 320G hard
> drive and if you get the right model will have USB3 or eSata for an
> external drive, usb2 in any event. In other words easy to add further
> storage.
>
> Add a USB DVB-T tuner for under $100 and one of these remotes for
> $13US http://rtr.ca/sapphire_remote/
>
> That's less than the magic box but only has one tuner, unless you find
> a dual tuner USB job - not sure if they exist. You could really do
> with 3 tuners for DVB-T (as there are 3 muxes). Adding a HDHR will get
> you 2 more (or get one to start with - I am not sure of the new NZ
> price.)
>
> Things get more complex if he doesn't have hdmi on his TV, as a decent
> video card (ie nvidia with vdpau support) with analogue out is hard to
> find. But if you have to buy a new TV get one like an LG with built in
> freeview and ability to record to USB hard drive (but I guess only one
> tuner, don't know if it can multirec).
>

Thanks for the info. The TV is a CRT which he's perfectly happy with
now. So no digital inputs. Which probably makes the myth solution a
non-starter.

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nick.rout at gmail

Jun 6, 2012, 2:17 AM

Post #20 of 30 (1476 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 8:59 PM, David Moore <dmoo1790 [at] ihug> wrote:
> On 06/06/12 20:45, Nick Rout wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 8:27 PM, Nick Rout<nick.rout [at] gmail> �wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Does he record at present? Does he want to? I find many people who
>>>> can't use a VCR. I find people who could use a VCR but have no clue
>>>> about using their DVD or hard drive recorders. Maybe a DVR will be too
>>>> complex for him.
>>>>
>>>> In which case a simple DVB-S/DVB-T set top box may be sufficient.
>>>
>>>
>>> Having said that the Magic box recommended by someone else has a great
>>> reputation.
>>
>>
>> If I wanted to build a cheap but slightly limited system I would get a
>> dual core revo for around $450 from trademe. It will have a 320G hard
>> drive and if you get the right model will have USB3 or eSata for an
>> external drive, usb2 in any event. In other words easy to add further
>> storage.
>>
>> Add a USB DVB-T tuner for under $100 and one of these remotes for
>> $13US http://rtr.ca/sapphire_remote/
>>
>> That's less than the magic box but only has one tuner, unless you find
>> a dual tuner USB job - not sure if they exist. You could really do
>> with 3 tuners for DVB-T (as there are 3 muxes). Adding a HDHR will get
>> you 2 more (or get one to start with - I am not sure of the new NZ
>> price.)
>>
>> Things get more complex if he doesn't have hdmi on his TV, as a decent
>> video card (ie nvidia with vdpau support) with analogue out is hard to
>> find. But if you have to buy a new TV get one like an LG with built in
>> freeview and ability to record to USB hard drive (but I guess only one
>> tuner, don't know if it can multirec).
>>
>
> Thanks for the info. The TV is a CRT which he's perfectly happy with now. So
> no digital inputs. Which probably makes the myth solution a non-starter.

It certainly makes an all-in-one like a revo difficult, as most have
HDMI and VGA. There are VGA to composite converters, but they are
neither cheap nor good quality from what I understand.

Best option would be a nvidia card with component out (assuming his
CRT is recent enough to have component in). Some of the 8xxx series
nvidia cards may do composite if you can still find one, and they will
do vdpau too (but not as well or with as little power as a recent one
like 4xx or 5xx series.

Decent size widescreen flat TVs can be pretty cheap these days, but it
certainly adds to the cost - budget possibly doubles!

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tortise at paradise

Jun 6, 2012, 4:24 AM

Post #21 of 30 (1455 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

On 6/06/2012 8:59 p.m., David Moore wrote:

> Thanks for the info. The TV is a CRT which he's perfectly happy with
> now. So no digital inputs. Which probably makes the myth solution a
> non-starter.

Again...(dejavu?) Noting the TV brand and model number is likely to bear
you fruit as the technical detail required to give a concise list of
options is not something I'd want to embark on without that information.

The url to the manual would be even more helpful....

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stephen_agent at jsw

Jun 6, 2012, 5:37 AM

Post #22 of 30 (1457 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

On Wed, 06 Jun 2012 20:42:10 +1200, you wrote:

>Interesting. I have a dual tuner myth system and I almost never find I
>need a third tuner. Do the commercial PVRs support recording more than
>one show per mux? Myth does which means you could record simultaneously
>every show broadcast by TVNZ and Mediaworks for instance. Or do you
>really need to record from all three muxes simultaneously?

It is fairly rare for a lot of people to need a third tuner, but it
certainly does happen, especially if you watch things on Prime. My
mother almost never does need three, but I typically do at least once
a week. Last year I had at least two periods where I had high
priority recordings on all three multiplexes at once recurring each
week at the same time. The TV3+1 channel can help, but that is only
broadcast in SD, not HD like TV3. The really bad problem comes with
the preroll and postroll needed to capture an entire programme, given
our broadcasters' propensity to say that they really have to broadcast
the ads and to hell with the advertised schedule. The MythTV
scheduler will cut off default preroll and postroll and switch to
another multiplex when it runs out of tuners and that can cause you to
miss the start of a program, or much worse the end. If you set it up
with forced preroll and postroll, it will drop recording of an entire
lower priority program, rather than start it when it could after the
clash period ended. So I would recommend three tuners for any heavy
TV watcher.

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tortise at paradise

Jun 6, 2012, 1:02 PM

Post #23 of 30 (1444 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

On 7/06/2012 12:37 a.m., Stephen Worthington wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Jun 2012 20:42:10 +1200, you wrote:
>
>> Interesting. I have a dual tuner myth system and I almost never find I
>> need a third tuner. Do the commercial PVRs support recording more than
>> one show per mux? Myth does which means you could record simultaneously
>> every show broadcast by TVNZ and Mediaworks for instance. Or do you
>> really need to record from all three muxes simultaneously?
>
> It is fairly rare for a lot of people to need a third tuner, but it
> certainly does happen, especially if you watch things on Prime. My
> mother almost never does need three, but I typically do at least once
> a week. Last year I had at least two periods where I had high
> priority recordings on all three multiplexes at once recurring each
> week at the same time. The TV3+1 channel can help, but that is only
> broadcast in SD, not HD like TV3. The really bad problem comes with
> the preroll and postroll needed to capture an entire programme, given
> our broadcasters' propensity to say that they really have to broadcast
> the ads and to hell with the advertised schedule. The MythTV
> scheduler will cut off default preroll and postroll and switch to
> another multiplex when it runs out of tuners and that can cause you to
> miss the start of a program, or much worse the end. If you set it up
> with forced preroll and postroll, it will drop recording of an entire
> lower priority program, rather than start it when it could after the
> clash period ended. So I would recommend three tuners for any heavy
> TV watcher.

IMO there is a case for four tuners, that is three dedicated to
recording and the fourth one for Live TV covers all cases upto one
independent LiveTV frontend. Even that falls over when there are Two
independent frontends doing independent LiveTV.

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paulgir at gmail

Jun 6, 2012, 1:33 PM

Post #24 of 30 (1447 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 08:02:38 +1200, tortise <tortise [at] paradise>
wrote:

> On 7/06/2012 12:37 a.m., Stephen Worthington wrote:
>> On Wed, 06 Jun 2012 20:42:10 +1200, you wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting. I have a dual tuner myth system and I almost never find I
>>> need a third tuner. Do the commercial PVRs support recording more than
>>> one show per mux? Myth does which means you could record simultaneously
>>> every show broadcast by TVNZ and Mediaworks for instance. Or do you
>>> really need to record from all three muxes simultaneously?
>>
>> It is fairly rare for a lot of people to need a third tuner, but it
>> certainly does happen, especially if you watch things on Prime. My
>> mother almost never does need three, but I typically do at least once
>> a week. Last year I had at least two periods where I had high
>> priority recordings on all three multiplexes at once recurring each
>> week at the same time. The TV3+1 channel can help, but that is only
>> broadcast in SD, not HD like TV3. The really bad problem comes with
>> the preroll and postroll needed to capture an entire programme, given
>> our broadcasters' propensity to say that they really have to broadcast
>> the ads and to hell with the advertised schedule. The MythTV
>> scheduler will cut off default preroll and postroll and switch to
>> another multiplex when it runs out of tuners and that can cause you to
>> miss the start of a program, or much worse the end. If you set it up
>> with forced preroll and postroll, it will drop recording of an entire
>> lower priority program, rather than start it when it could after the
>> clash period ended. So I would recommend three tuners for any heavy
>> TV watcher.
>
> IMO there is a case for four tuners, that is three dedicated to
> recording and the fourth one for Live TV covers all cases upto one
> independent LiveTV frontend. Even that falls over when there are Two
> independent frontends doing independent LiveTV.
>
I too,often wish to record off three mux's.As I have only two tuners,I do
the third record on a HDD DVR.
I plan to add an HDHomerun at some stage.

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nick.rout at gmail

Jun 6, 2012, 2:28 PM

Post #25 of 30 (1442 views)
Permalink

Re: Just how cheap could you build a system? Possibly OT. [In reply to]

On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 8:02 AM, tortise <tortise [at] paradise> wrote:
> On 7/06/2012 12:37 a.m., Stephen Worthington wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 06 Jun 2012 20:42:10 +1200, you wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting. I have a dual tuner myth system and I almost never find I
>>> need a third tuner. Do the commercial PVRs support recording more than
>>> one show per mux? Myth does which means you could record simultaneously
>>> every show broadcast by TVNZ and Mediaworks for instance. Or do you
>>> really need to record from all three muxes simultaneously?
>>
>>
>> It is fairly rare for a lot of people to need a third tuner, but it
>> certainly does happen, especially if you watch things on Prime. �My
>> mother almost never does need three, but I typically do at least once
>> a week. �Last year I had at least two periods where I had high
>> priority recordings on all three multiplexes at once recurring each
>> week at the same time. �The TV3+1 channel can help, but that is only
>> broadcast in SD, not HD like TV3. �The really bad problem comes with
>> the preroll and postroll needed to capture an entire programme, given
>> our broadcasters' propensity to say that they really have to broadcast
>> the ads and to hell with the advertised schedule. �The MythTV
>> scheduler will cut off default preroll and postroll and switch to
>> another multiplex when it runs out of tuners and that can cause you to
>> miss the start of a program, or much worse the end. �If you set it up
>> with forced preroll and postroll, it will drop recording of an entire
>> lower priority program, rather than start it when it could after the
>> clash period ended. �So I would recommend three tuners for any heavy
>> TV watcher.
>
>
> IMO there is a case for four tuners, that is three dedicated to recording
> and the fourth one for Live TV covers all cases upto one independent LiveTV
> frontend. �Even that falls over when there are Two independent frontends
> doing independent LiveTV.

are you on 0.24 or 0.25? You can watch livetv while recording on the same mux.

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