Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Mythtvnz

Multiseat Myth?

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ross.jemima at gmail

Mar 15, 2010, 1:05 AM

Post #1 of 16 (1727 views)
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Multiseat Myth?

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone knows whether it would be possible to run a
multiseated mythbox? Multiseat is where you run two or more monitors
with separate desktops on each. I'm interested to know whether it would
be still possible to access the advanced graphics functions (ie hardware
decoding) with 2+ monitors.

Reason I'm asking is that it seems like it might be more cost effective
to just run AV cabling than building/buying separate frontend systems.
Especially if they are probably not going to get fully utilised as I'm
sure that my system is not being heavily pushed.

Anyway it'd be good to get people's views as without the hardware
decoding capabilities this idea is pretty much dead in the water.

Cheers
Rossco

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stephen_agent at jsw

Mar 15, 2010, 2:08 AM

Post #2 of 16 (1685 views)
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Re: Multiseat Myth? [In reply to]

On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:05:08 +1300, you wrote:

>Hi all,
>
>I was wondering if anyone knows whether it would be possible to run a
>multiseated mythbox? Multiseat is where you run two or more monitors
>with separate desktops on each. I'm interested to know whether it would
>be still possible to access the advanced graphics functions (ie hardware
>decoding) with 2+ monitors.
>
>Reason I'm asking is that it seems like it might be more cost effective
>to just run AV cabling than building/buying separate frontend systems.
>Especially if they are probably not going to get fully utilised as I'm
>sure that my system is not being heavily pushed.
>
>Anyway it'd be good to get people's views as without the hardware
>decoding capabilities this idea is pretty much dead in the water.
>
>Cheers
>Rossco

I do not think the current Nvidia drivers support acceleration on two
monitors at once, but you can check the features list - it is in the
docs somewhere. But if you have accelerated motherboard video, and
you add an accelerated PCI or PCIe card, you could probably run two
monitors accelerated. I am not sure if you could then run two copies
of mythfrontend, but I do not see any particular reason why not.

I think you would have enough resources to do that on one PC, but only
if you are not running mythcommflag or transcoding jobs. Mythcommflag
uses lots of resources.

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tortise at paradise

Mar 15, 2010, 2:25 AM

Post #3 of 16 (1676 views)
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Re: Multiseat Myth? [In reply to]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross and Jemima Knudsen" <ross.jemima [at] gmail>
To: <mythtvnz [at] lists>
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 9:05 PM
Subject: [mythtvnz] Multiseat Myth?

> Hi all,
>
> I was wondering if anyone knows whether it would be possible to run a
> multiseated mythbox? Multiseat is where you run two or more monitors
> with separate desktops on each. I'm interested to know whether it would
> be still possible to access the advanced graphics functions (ie hardware
> decoding) with 2+ monitors.
>
> Reason I'm asking is that it seems like it might be more cost effective
> to just run AV cabling than building/buying separate frontend systems.
> Especially if they are probably not going to get fully utilised as I'm
> sure that my system is not being heavily pushed.
>
> Anyway it'd be good to get people's views as without the hardware
> decoding capabilities this idea is pretty much dead in the water.
>
> Cheers
> Rossco

Well...I just sort of tried for you, I have a 8500GT (512M RAM) feeding a LCD (VGA) and TV (Component), running separate X sessions.

I can get both screens to run different material however the system is probably struggling.....It doesn't play 1080i live on both,
and the audio is slightly out of sync.... Still with 1G of fast RAM who knows?

From my previous reading of nvidia readme's to get 3 screens you'd need 3 video cards, not impossible....but might be a cooling
issue. The PCI 9400 GT's are pretty well behaved these days.

However the audio - its all together....but perhaps that can be separated out??? (Shudders thinking about that) Maybe separate
audio cards too???

Also you'd need to separate out the remote controls somehow.

I am not sure that programs like mythweb and mythdroid recognise controlling separate X sessions on the same box. (But perhaps they
should one day?)

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tortise at paradise

Mar 15, 2010, 2:51 AM

Post #4 of 16 (1678 views)
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Re: Multiseat Myth? [In reply to]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tortise" <tortise [at] paradise>
To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz [at] lists>
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] Multiseat Myth?

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ross and Jemima Knudsen" <ross.jemima [at] gmail>
> To: <mythtvnz [at] lists>
> Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 9:05 PM
> Subject: [mythtvnz] Multiseat Myth?
>
>
Sorry I meant to write

"It doesn't play 1080i live {well} on both, and the audio is slightly out of sync...."

{well} = added word, it does play, just stutters on at least one....hard to tell which is what!

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stevehodge at gmail

Mar 15, 2010, 3:37 AM

Post #5 of 16 (1678 views)
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Re: Multiseat Myth? [In reply to]

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:25 PM, Tortise <tortise [at] paradise> wrote:

> However the audio - its all together....but perhaps that can be separated
> out??? (Shudders thinking about that) Maybe separate
> audio cards too???
>

Yes, you'd need a separate audio card.

> Also you'd need to separate out the remote controls somehow.
>

Lirc should handle that fine.

I am not sure that programs like mythweb and mythdroid recognise controlling
> separate X sessions on the same box. (But perhaps they
> should one day?)
>

Mythweb should be fine - it's already designed to handle multiple frontends
and has no reason to care where they are.

By default the frontend settings are stored by hostname. That won't work if
you're running multiple frontends on the same host, but you can set a
specific identifier in the General Settings page. I assume there is an
argument to mythfrontend to tell it what identifier it should run as. If you
use anything that relies on the telnet interface to control the frontends
(such as the MythWeb remote app or MyMote for example) you'll have to modify
the "Network Remote Control Port" setting for one of the frontends.

I think I remember this coming up on the main list. It's probably worth
going through the archives.

Cheers,
Steve

nick.rout at gmail

Mar 15, 2010, 12:00 PM

Post #6 of 16 (1676 views)
Permalink

Re: Multiseat Myth? [In reply to]

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:05 PM, Ross and Jemima Knudsen
<ross.jemima [at] gmail> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I was wondering if anyone knows whether it would be possible to run a
> multiseated mythbox? �Multiseat is where you run two or more monitors
> with separate desktops on each. �I'm interested to know whether it would
> be still possible to access the advanced graphics functions (ie hardware
> decoding) with 2+ monitors.
>
> Reason I'm asking is that it seems like it might be more cost effective
> to just run AV cabling than building/buying separate frontend systems.
> Especially if they are probably not going to get fully utilised as I'm
> sure that my system is not being heavily pushed.
>
> Anyway it'd be good to get people's views as without the hardware
> decoding capabilities this idea is pretty much dead in the water.

This question has been asked here before and I think I gave much the
same answer then:

Search the mythtvusers mailing list. I have seen someone describe a
similar successful setup. If you want acceleration on each monitor,
you will probably need a graphics card for each monitor.

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blmiller at slingshot

Mar 15, 2010, 2:30 PM

Post #7 of 16 (1662 views)
Permalink

Re: Multiseat Myth? [In reply to]

As of nVidia driver 190.53
"VDPAU now allows multiple streams to be decoded at once, without the
need to set any environment variables. vpdau has been able to decode
multiple streams." http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2141387

On 16/03/2010 8:00 a.m., Nick Rout wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:05 PM, Ross and Jemima Knudsen
> <ross.jemima [at] gmail> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I was wondering if anyone knows whether it would be possible to run a
>> multiseated mythbox? Multiseat is where you run two or more monitors
>> with separate desktops on each. I'm interested to know whether it would
>> be still possible to access the advanced graphics functions (ie hardware
>> decoding) with 2+ monitors.
>>
>> Reason I'm asking is that it seems like it might be more cost effective
>> to just run AV cabling than building/buying separate frontend systems.
>> Especially if they are probably not going to get fully utilised as I'm
>> sure that my system is not being heavily pushed.
>>
>> Anyway it'd be good to get people's views as without the hardware
>> decoding capabilities this idea is pretty much dead in the water.
>>
>
> This question has been asked here before and I think I gave much the
> same answer then:
>
> Search the mythtvusers mailing list. I have seen someone describe a
> similar successful setup. If you want acceleration on each monitor,
> you will probably need a graphics card for each monitor.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz [at] lists
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.436 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2748 - Release Date: 03/15/10 07:33:00
>
>

ross.jemima at gmail

Mar 15, 2010, 3:37 PM

Post #8 of 16 (1662 views)
Permalink

Re: Multiseat Myth? [In reply to]

On 16 March 2010 10:30, Brett Miller <blmiller [at] slingshot> wrote:
> As of nVidia driver 190.53
> "VDPAU now allows multiple streams to be decoded at once, without the need
> to set any environment variables. vpdau has been able to decode multiple
> streams." http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2141387

Now that looks promising!

> On 16/03/2010 8:00 a.m., Nick Rout wrote:
> This question has been asked here before and I think I gave much the
> same answer then:
> Search the mythtvusers mailing list. I have seen someone describe a
> similar successful setup. If you want acceleration on each monitor,
> you will probably need a graphics card for each monitor.

Thanks Nick, I'll try looking through the archives and let you know
how I get on.

Steve, thanks for your thoughts on the frontend settings, I hadn't
thought that far through but you're right they would have the same
hostname. As for the audio, I'm sure there must be a way to get it to
work with only one sound card. If my sound card does 7.1 (ie 8
channels) surely I can get 2 x 2.1 streams. I haven't found anything
on the net so far on this most things seem to want to combine multiple
sound cards into a single virtual card rather than split one into
multiple.

As for controlling the system, there seem to be ways to use separate
mouse and keyboards on multiseat systems. Ideally it would be great
to have the keyboard and mouse use one of the seats by default and use
a keyboard shortcut to toggle between them (ie run a script to switch
seats).

_______________________________________________
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blmiller at slingshot

Mar 16, 2010, 12:43 AM

Post #9 of 16 (1638 views)
Permalink

Re: Multiseat Myth? [In reply to]

The 9400GT (twin head card) seems to manage decoding two streams of TV3
HD material using two instances of myth FE.
One display is driven 1080i, the other is GPU scaled down 1440x900.
Myth0.22-JYA & nVidia 195 driver.

There doesn't seem much of a deterimental effect, I'll let it run for
some hours..
The latest code (last couple weeks) does seem have better playback
(smoother playback, no pregnant pauses).

B

On 16/03/2010 11:37 a.m., Ross and Jemima Knudsen wrote:
> On 16 March 2010 10:30, Brett Miller<blmiller [at] slingshot> wrote:
>
>> As of nVidia driver 190.53
>> "VDPAU now allows multiple streams to be decoded at once, without the need
>> to set any environment variables. vpdau has been able to decode multiple
>> streams." http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2141387
>>
> Now that looks promising!
>
>
>> On 16/03/2010 8:00 a.m., Nick Rout wrote:
>> This question has been asked here before and I think I gave much the
>> same answer then:
>> Search the mythtvusers mailing list. I have seen someone describe a
>> similar successful setup. If you want acceleration on each monitor,
>> you will probably need a graphics card for each monitor.
>>
> Thanks Nick, I'll try looking through the archives and let you know
> how I get on.
>
> Steve, thanks for your thoughts on the frontend settings, I hadn't
> thought that far through but you're right they would have the same
> hostname. As for the audio, I'm sure there must be a way to get it to
> work with only one sound card. If my sound card does 7.1 (ie 8
> channels) surely I can get 2 x 2.1 streams. I haven't found anything
> on the net so far on this most things seem to want to combine multiple
> sound cards into a single virtual card rather than split one into
> multiple.
>
> As for controlling the system, there seem to be ways to use separate
> mouse and keyboards on multiseat systems. Ideally it would be great
> to have the keyboard and mouse use one of the seats by default and use
> a keyboard shortcut to toggle between them (ie run a script to switch
> seats).
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz [at] lists
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.436 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2748 - Release Date: 03/15/10 07:33:00
>
>

blmiller at slingshot

Mar 16, 2010, 2:03 AM

Post #10 of 16 (1642 views)
Permalink

Re: Multiseat Myth? [In reply to]

After closer observation (still limited) for decoding two streams with
two Myth FEs ..

Think that one stream is being decoded by vpdau & the other by main CPU
(65% load).
So does not work..
Might try two completely different applications in case there is an
inter-dependancy between two Myth FE.

On 16/03/2010 8:43 p.m., Brett Miller wrote:
> The 9400GT (twin head card) seems to manage decoding two streams of
> TV3 HD material using two instances of myth FE.
> One display is driven 1080i, the other is GPU scaled down 1440x900.
> Myth0.22-JYA & nVidia 195 driver.
>
> There doesn't seem much of a deterimental effect, I'll let it run for
> some hours..
> The latest code (last couple weeks) does seem have better playback
> (smoother playback, no pregnant pauses).
>
> B
>
> On 16/03/2010 11:37 a.m., Ross and Jemima Knudsen wrote:
>> On 16 March 2010 10:30, Brett Miller<blmiller [at] slingshot> wrote:
>>
>>> As of nVidia driver 190.53
>>> "VDPAU now allows multiple streams to be decoded at once, without the need
>>> to set any environment variables. vpdau has been able to decode multiple
>>> streams."http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2141387
>>>
>> Now that looks promising!
>>
>>
>>> On 16/03/2010 8:00 a.m., Nick Rout wrote:
>>> This question has been asked here before and I think I gave much the
>>> same answer then:
>>> Search the mythtvusers mailing list. I have seen someone describe a
>>> similar successful setup. If you want acceleration on each monitor,
>>> you will probably need a graphics card for each monitor.
>>>
>> Thanks Nick, I'll try looking through the archives and let you know
>> how I get on.
>>
>> Steve, thanks for your thoughts on the frontend settings, I hadn't
>> thought that far through but you're right they would have the same
>> hostname. As for the audio, I'm sure there must be a way to get it to
>> work with only one sound card. If my sound card does 7.1 (ie 8
>> channels) surely I can get 2 x 2.1 streams. I haven't found anything
>> on the net so far on this most things seem to want to combine multiple
>> sound cards into a single virtual card rather than split one into
>> multiple.
>>
>> As for controlling the system, there seem to be ways to use separate
>> mouse and keyboards on multiseat systems. Ideally it would be great
>> to have the keyboard and mouse use one of the seats by default and use
>> a keyboard shortcut to toggle between them (ie run a script to switch
>> seats).
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtvnz mailing list
>> mythtvnz [at] lists
>> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
>> Archiveshttp://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG -www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.436 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2748 - Release Date: 03/15/10 07:33:00
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz [at] lists
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.436 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2749 - Release Date: 03/15/10 19:33:00
>
>

tortise at paradise

Mar 16, 2010, 2:34 AM

Post #11 of 16 (1630 views)
Permalink

Re: Multiseat Myth? [In reply to]

----- Original Message -----
From: Brett Miller
To: MythTV in NZ
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] Multiseat Myth?

>After closer observation (still limited) for decoding two streams with two Myth FEs ..

>Think that one stream is being decoded by vpdau & the other by main CPU (65% load).
>So does not work..
>Might try two completely different applications in case there is an inter-dependancy between two Myth FE.

>On 16/03/2010 8:43 p.m., Brett Miller wrote:
>The 9400GT (twin head card) seems to manage decoding two streams of TV3 HD material using two instances of myth FE.
>One display is driven 1080i, the other is GPU scaled down 1440x900.
>Myth0.22-JYA & nVidia 195 driver.

>There doesn't seem much of a deterimental effect, I'll let it run for some hours..
>The latest code (last couple weeks) does seem have better playback (smoother playback, no pregnant pauses).

Out of interest were you running separate X sessions? How much video RAM? CPU spec?

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blmiller at slingshot

Mar 17, 2010, 12:00 AM

Post #12 of 16 (1602 views)
Permalink

Re: Multiseat Myth? [In reply to]

One X session, don't know how to do otherwise.
512MB
core2duo 2.8GHz, P45 chipset

> Out of interest were you running separate X sessions? How much video RAM? CPU spec?
>
>
>

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tortise at paradise

Mar 17, 2010, 12:42 AM

Post #13 of 16 (1606 views)
Permalink

Re: Multiseat Myth? [In reply to]

> One X session, don't know how to do otherwise.

From the NVIDIA GUI select Display Configuration / Configuration / Separate X screen

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nick.rout at gmail

Mar 17, 2010, 1:07 AM

Post #14 of 16 (1605 views)
Permalink

Re: Multiseat Myth? [In reply to]

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 8:00 PM, Brett Miller <blmiller [at] slingshot> wrote:
> One X session, don't know how to do otherwise.
> 512MB
> core2duo �2.8GHz, P45 chipset

How are you running two mythfrontends in one X session?

>
>> Out of interest were you running separate X sessions? �How much video RAM? �CPU spec?
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz [at] lists
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>

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tortise at paradise

Mar 17, 2010, 2:17 AM

Post #15 of 16 (1599 views)
Permalink

Re: Multiseat Myth? [In reply to]

> How are you running two mythfrontends in one X session?

Click the icon twice seems to do it... (They run over each other - maybe running in a window might make more obvious)

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blmiller at slingshot

Mar 18, 2010, 12:03 AM

Post #16 of 16 (1546 views)
Permalink

Re: Multiseat Myth? [In reply to]

Have the physical displays setup as seperate X windows.
No Xinerama & no twinview.

I understood virtual terminals & remote terminals (console) to be
additional X sessions. Did not think that additional physical
display/screens were as well.

I don't understand how X server handles multiple videoheads or displays.
I don't use nvidia_config utility as it seems only to wreck functioning
xorg.conf files.

On 17/03/2010 10:17 p.m., Tortise wrote:
>> How are you running two mythfrontends in one X session?
>>
> Click the icon twice seems to do it... (They run over each other - maybe running in a window might make more obvious)
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
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> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
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>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.436 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2749 - Release Date: 03/15/10 19:33:00
>
>

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