Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Mythtvnz

The Paradigm Shift

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blmiller at slingshot

Oct 26, 2009, 9:26 PM

Post #1 of 24 (3018 views)
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The Paradigm Shift

First must thank all who have made MythTV what it is...BUT let's stir up the
nest...

What watching LiveTV paradigm shift..it's a feature !

Kind of funny how "LiveTV" has become the old paradigm just because it does
not work properly.

What is the first (top) menu item in MythTV ?
What features are touted (boldly) on MythTV webpage ?

"-- number of users who can't get the "what is live TV
for anyway" paradigm. ie visitors 'expect' to turn the TV on and watch
what's playing now. "

Spoken like a true software developer that can not / will not debug her/his
code.
LiveTV should work flawlessly because this should have been debugged
months/years ago.
The pausing & recording LiveTV should be flawless.
Playback of an active recording using navigation (pause, FF etc) should
work.

The endless scope creep/ extra feature lists work to defeat this.
Software debugging is the toughest & most tedious part of code development.
It is also the most important after the initial defining documents.

Brett

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hads at nice

Oct 26, 2009, 9:36 PM

Post #2 of 24 (2948 views)
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Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

On Tue, 2009-10-27 at 17:26 +1300, Brett Miller wrote:
> Kind of funny how "LiveTV" has become the old paradigm just because it
> does not work properly.

It works fine here.

> What is the first (top) menu item in MythTV ?

In 0.22 with the standard menu layout it's "Media Library". Fifth on the
list just above "Settings" is "Watch TV".

hads

--
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier

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stevehodge at gmail

Oct 26, 2009, 9:38 PM

Post #3 of 24 (2951 views)
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Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Brett Miller <blmiller [at] slingshot>wrote:

> LiveTV should work flawlessly because this should have been debugged
> months/years ago.
>

It works flawlessly for me. Not that I use it.

> The pausing & recording LiveTV should be flawless.
>

Again, works for me.

> Playback of an active recording using navigation (pause, FF etc) should
> work.
>

Again, works for me.

You seem to think there is some sort of major problem with Live TV. There
isn't. There are certain setups or situations where it doesn't work as well
as it could. There have been complaints about these problems and the
standard response has been this: "the developers don't use that
functionality and so these issues are not a priority for them. If you want
them fixed then submit a patch". What do you think is unreasonable about
that position?

Cheers,
Steve

blmiller at slingshot

Oct 27, 2009, 1:01 AM

Post #4 of 24 (2946 views)
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Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

>>On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Brett Miller <blmiller [at] slingshot>
>>wrote:
>>LiveTV should work flawlessly because this should have been debugged
>>months/years ago.

>It works flawlessly for me. Not that I use it.

Sorry but how can you be so sure then ?

>>The pausing & recording LiveTV should be flawless.

>Again, works for me.
I admit I can not use due to sound breakup, pause & record may work.

>>Playback of an active recording using navigation (pause, FF etc) should
>>work.

>Again, works for me.

It just does not work, it screws up the current position & you can not
navigate into parts of the recorded file.
This has had displayed the same behaviour for all my experience of MythTV.
Please try it inside of first half hour of the news.

>You seem to think there is some sort of major problem with Live TV. There
>isn't. There are certain setups or >situations where it doesn't work as
>well as it could.

I think the problems are not major, I would imagine the problems are really
simple.

> There have been complaints about these problems and the standard response
> has been this:
> "the >developers don't use that functionality and so these issues are not
> a priority for them.
> If you want them fixed then submit a patch".
>What do you think is unreasonable about that position?

>Cheers,
>Steve

There is absolutely nothing unreasonable about that position except if it
denies there is a problem.
Interesting that LiveTV is moved down the list, bet it still doesn't work
right.

It would take me 100-1000 times longer to debug/submit patch than say
someone like JYA.
It would be pointless to try, the result would be redundant.

Could I suggest the notion of paying for some hours of code debugging for a
specific issue ?
Or an on-line user voting system ?

B.

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jyavenard at gmail

Oct 27, 2009, 1:09 AM

Post #5 of 24 (2951 views)
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Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

Hi

2009/10/27 Brett Miller <blmiller [at] slingshot>:
> Sorry but how can you be so sure then ?

I use it ... a lot.

It works for me very well..

> I admit I can not use due to sound breakup, pause & record may work.

When was the last time you tried?

It has worked flawlessly for me even in 0.21

0.22 is even better ; can now change channels across tuners and cards
... (which you could with 0.21 with some additional patches)

> It just does not work, it screws up the current position & you can not
> navigate into parts of the recorded file.
> This has had displayed the same behaviour for all my experience of MythTV.
> Please try it inside of first half hour of the news.

never experienced that

> I think the problems are not major, I would imagine the problems are really
> simple.

Great that it's simple..

Where are your patches ?

> It would take me 100-1000 times longer to debug/submit patch �than say
> someone like JYA.
> It would be pointless to try, the result would be redundant.

Thanks for the compliment, but it isn't even deserved...
I'm probably the least experienced of all MythTV developers.

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nick.rout at gmail

Oct 27, 2009, 2:07 AM

Post #6 of 24 (2942 views)
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Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Brett Miller <blmiller [at] slingshot> wrote:
> First must thank all who have made MythTV what it is...BUT let's stir up the
> nest...
>
> What watching LiveTV paradigm shift..it's a feature !
>
> Kind of funny how "LiveTV" has become the old paradigm just because it does
> not work properly.

No, its because its kinda redundant.

>
> What is the first (top) menu item in MythTV ?
> What features are touted (boldly) on MythTV webpage ?
>
> "-- �number of users who can't get the "what is live TV
> for anyway" paradigm. ie visitors 'expect' to turn the TV on and watch
> what's playing now. �"

I sometimes use live tv, but can't stand the ads and can't stand the scheduling.

>
> Spoken like a true software developer that can not / will not debug her/his
> code.

I am not a developer.

> LiveTV should work flawlessly because this should have been debugged
> months/years ago.
> The pausing & recording LiveTV should be flawless.
> Playback of an active recording using navigation (pause, FF etc) should
> work.
>
> The endless scope creep/ extra feature lists work to defeat this.
> Software debugging is the toughest & most tedious part of code development.
> It is also the most important after the initial defining documents.
>

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stevehodge at gmail

Oct 27, 2009, 3:03 AM

Post #7 of 24 (2943 views)
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Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Brett Miller <blmiller [at] slingshot>wrote:

> >>On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Brett Miller <blmiller [at] slingshot>
> >>wrote:
> >>LiveTV should work flawlessly because this should have been debugged
> >>months/years ago.
>
> >It works flawlessly for me. Not that I use it.
>
> Sorry but how can you be so sure then ?
>

Perhaps I should have said "I don't use it, but the other people who have
used my system have never complained". I do use it for testing occasionally
and sometimes for sport like cricket. I've never seen any problems.

>>Playback of an active recording using navigation (pause, FF etc) should
> >>work.
>
> >Again, works for me.
>
> It just does not work, it screws up the current position & you can not
> navigate into parts of the recorded file.
> This has had displayed the same behaviour for all my experience of MythTV.
> Please try it inside of first half hour of the news.
>

I do this a lot with sports. I've never experienced the problems you're
describing.

I've been using MythTV for 5 years. In my experience, and from what I've
seen on the main MythTV mailing list over that time, the issues you are
seeing are not typical. They are most likely caused by something specific to
your setup.

> >You seem to think there is some sort of major problem with Live TV. There
> >isn't. There are certain setups or >situations where it doesn't work as
> >well as it could.
>
> I think the problems are not major, I would imagine the problems are really
> simple.
>

If they were really simple they would probably have been fixed, even with
disinterested developers. I suspect that any problems that remain are due to
difficult corner cases and odd configurations

> There have been complaints about these problems and the standard response
> > has been this:
> > "the >developers don't use that functionality and so these issues are not
> > a priority for them.
> > If you want them fixed then submit a patch".
> >What do you think is unreasonable about that position?
>
> There is absolutely nothing unreasonable about that position except if it
> denies there is a problem.
>

It doesn't deny there is a problem. It simply states that the developers
have higher priorities and if you don't like it you're welcome to do
something constructive about it. Continuing to complain is not constructive.
Produce some debug traces at least, or better yet a patch.

> Could I suggest the notion of paying for some hours of code debugging for a
> specific issue ?
>

You're certainly welcome to approach any developer with a contract offer. I
suspect it's unlikely that you'd be able to agree on a price. OTOH, a
"bounty" has worked at least once with MythTV as the multi-record
functionality was developed that way.

> Or an on-line user voting system ?
>

No. The idea has been raised in the past and dismissed. Open source software
development is not a democracy. Developers work on what they want to work on
and generally don't take to kindly to "suggestions" that they should be
working on something else.

The tone of your initial message (" Spoken like a true software developer
that can not / will not debug her/his code. LiveTV should work flawlessly
because this should have been debugged months/years ago.") is pretty
unpleasant. You should realise that you have no entitlement - all you can do
is politely ask (beg even) someone to do something about it. I don't think
your message was particularly polite.

Cheers,
Steve

kelvins at kelhome

Oct 27, 2009, 12:30 PM

Post #8 of 24 (2901 views)
Permalink

Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

Sorry for the duffed reply. Only getting digests, so cutting and
pasting out to make comment...

>>Again, works for me.
>I admit I can not use due to sound breakup, pause & record may work.

Works fine for me for the last 5 years as well on SD. I have been
running 0.21 with VDPAU patches, LATM etc (running on CentOS 5.2) for
the last month very well. I did have sound breakup issues, but an
upgrade to Alsa (and recompile) resolved and now sound is rock solid.
What is your setup, and perhaps we can assist with your problem?

>>>Playback of an active recording using navigation (pause, FF etc)
should
>>>work.

>>Again, works for me.

>It just does not work, it screws up the current position & you can not
>navigate into parts of the recorded file.
>This has had displayed the same behaviour for all my experience of
>MythTV.
>Please try it inside of first half hour of the news.

If you are running 0.21 from JYA or roll-your-own VDPAU support with
0.21 then yes, you will get skipping issues with live-tv. This is a
known fault. In the same manner, the preview window in recorded TV pane
pauses as well with HD recorded programs (as not using VDPAU to
display). 0.21 with SD TV is rock solid - no issues - pause, skip,
rewind. 0.21 VDPAU back port was only a stop-gap measure until 0.22
arrives fully so was never touted as fully working. I did see a patch
for 0.22 to address this issue (skipping) a couple of weeks ago. As I
am happy with 0.21 with VDPAU I have not upgraded so could not tell you
if this resolves the issue or not.

>>You seem to think there is some sort of major problem with Live TV.
>>There isn't. There are certain setups or >situations where it doesn't
>>work as well as it could.

As explained above.

--
Kelvin Smith <kelvins [at] kelhome>

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jonathan.hoskin at gmail

Oct 27, 2009, 12:31 PM

Post #9 of 24 (2919 views)
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Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

>> >>work.
>>
>> >Again, works for me.
>>
>> It just does not work, it screws up the current position & you can not
>> navigate into parts of the recorded file.
>> This has had displayed the same behaviour for all my experience of MythTV.
>> Please try it inside of first half hour of the news.
>>
>
> I do this a lot with sports. I've never experienced the problems you're
> describing.
>
> I've been using MythTV for 5 years. In my experience, and from what I've
> seen on the main MythTV mailing list over that time, the issues you are
> seeing are not typical. They are most likely caused by something specific to
> your setup.
>

I too have the problem, that is; "Seeking past what was the end of the
recording and the time I started watching or seeking". I think it is only
occurring when watching live or in-progress recordings of Freeview HD.

If you don't have this problem on Freview HD, myself and a few other users
on this list would be very interested in your setup, as this single problem
is driving us nuts.

I have tried many times to change my wife's watching habits, but she is
quite happy to watch ads and Home and Away.

How to reproduce (on 0.21):

1) Be in New Zealand
2) Go to "Watch TV" and start watching a FV HD channel
3) Watch for 3-5 minutes (cover your eyes and ears if live tv hurts too
much)
4) Take note of the ad/program/action that is occurring on screen
5) Now skip back 2 minutes (I use the left arrow of my MCE remote which =
-10sec)
6) Wait 1 minute
6) Now try to skip forward, and try to skip past the point noted in Step 4
(Right arrow = +30sec)

I just did this, and couldn't skip past the point in Step 4 in 30 second
increments, even though there was more than 30 seconds of content past that
point. It just seems to "stick" at the point noted in Step 4. In addition,
waiting a few seconds and pressing right arrow again can only skip forward a
few seconds as the 'perceived' timeline grows out in front of that point.

I don't speak any of the languages that Myth is written in so I can't
contribute at that level. However, this really seems to be a bug and I am
happy to contribute in any other way necessary to get it fixed.

jonathan.hoskin at gmail

Oct 27, 2009, 12:36 PM

Post #10 of 24 (2908 views)
Permalink

Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

>
> How to reproduce (on 0.21):
>

P.S. I am currently building an isolated 0.22 test system to see if is is
any better. This fix alone would be enough to want to move up.

james at booths

Oct 27, 2009, 12:53 PM

Post #11 of 24 (2920 views)
Permalink

Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

>On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Brett Miller <blmiller [at] slingshot>
wrote:
>LiveTV should work flawlessly because this should have been debugged
>months/years ago.
>
>It works flawlessly for me. Not that I use it.
>�
>The pausing & recording LiveTV should be flawless.
>
>Again, works for me.
>�
>Playback of an active recording using navigation (pause, FF etc) should
>work.
>
>Again, works for me.
>
>You seem to think there is some sort of major problem with Live TV. There
isn't. There are certain setups or situations where >it doesn't work as well
as it could. There have been complaints about these problems and the
standard response has been this: >"the developers don't use that
functionality and so these issues are not a priority for them. If you want
them fixed then >submit a patch". What do you think is unreasonable about
that position?
>
>
>Cheers,
>Steve

----

I have the same problems with navigating in Live TV that Brett reports, but
I think it is only an issue using JYA's more recent builds, and hey, I'm not
going to complain after all the work he has done!

James.

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nick.rout at gmail

Oct 27, 2009, 1:21 PM

Post #12 of 24 (2918 views)
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Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Jonathan Hoskin
<jonathan.hoskin [at] gmail> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> >>Playback of an active recording using navigation (pause, FF etc) should
>>> >>work.
>>>
>>> >Again, works for me.
>>>
>>> It just does not work, it screws up the current position & you can not
>>> navigate into parts of the recorded file.
>>> This has had displayed the same behaviour for all my experience of
>>> MythTV.
>>> Please try it inside of first half hour of the news.
>>
>>
>> I do this a lot with sports. I've never experienced the problems you're
>> describing.
>>
>> I've been using MythTV for 5 years. In my experience, and from what I've
>> seen on the main MythTV mailing list over that time, the issues you are
>> seeing are not typical. They are most likely caused by something specific to
>> your setup.
>
>
> I too have the problem, that is; "Seeking past what was the end of the
> recording and the time I started watching or seeking". I think it is only
> occurring when watching live or in-progress recordings of Freeview HD.

I am pretty sure I have seen this issue reported in the main
mythtv-sers mailing list. Check the archives, there may be a fix or
news of an impending fix.

The workaround is to exit the recording and start watching it again.
If you have it set up that way it will start playing again from where
you left off, and will be correctly indexed up to the current ("live")
position.

Clunky but it does work. I expect (but don't know) its to do with the
way h264 is indexed within an mpeg2 ts stream. Remembering that those
of the devs who live in the US don't have much experience of
transmitted h264 (their HD tv is pretty well all mpeg2 encoded).

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aarond at postec

Oct 27, 2009, 1:28 PM

Post #13 of 24 (2913 views)
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Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

>It just does not work, it screws up the current position & you can not
>navigate into parts of the recorded file.
>This has had displayed the same behaviour for all my experience of
>MythTV.
>Please try it inside of first half hour of the news.

I have also experienced this problem with JYA's repository and using
VDPAU. Start watching live TV while it is still recording and when you
skip it seems to lose track of where it is in the video stream. However,
moving to 0.22 in JYA's repository has fixed this. So the developers
obviously are fixing problems as they occur, perhaps just not with the
frequency we would like. Oh well... as a very happy Myth user I can't
complain.

Aaron

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dave2 at wetstring

Oct 27, 2009, 1:44 PM

Post #14 of 24 (2914 views)
Permalink

Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

On Tue, 2009-10-27 at 17:26 +1300, Brett Miller wrote:
> First must thank all who have made MythTV what it is...BUT let's stir up the
> nest...
>
> What watching LiveTV paradigm shift..it's a feature !
>
> Kind of funny how "LiveTV" has become the old paradigm just because it does
> not work properly.

I don't believe that it not working "properly" (note: properly is often
in MythTV a matter of opinion!) is the reason behind the shift. It takes
people a while, but eventually you stop consuming media as broadcast.
I've seen many people who aren't geeks come to that realisation given it
allows them to skip ads and to cherry pick in ways they didn't before.

Live TV does have problems, it's far too slow to change channels (or was
when I last tried it in 0.21), and seeking is a bit naff, but I'm also
of the opinion there are problems in the whole way MythTV structures
stream handling for all outputs.

I just lack the patches to fix it :)

--
David Zanetti <dave2 [at] wetstring>
http://hairy.geek.nz/
Overzealous Sysadmin

Attachments:

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nick.rout at gmail

Oct 27, 2009, 2:02 PM

Post #15 of 24 (2912 views)
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Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 9:44 AM, David Zanetti <dave2 [at] wetstring> wrote:
> On Tue, 2009-10-27 at 17:26 +1300, Brett Miller wrote:
>> First must thank all who have made MythTV what it is...BUT let's stir up the
>> nest...
>>
>> What watching LiveTV paradigm shift..it's a feature !
>>
>> Kind of funny how "LiveTV" has become the old paradigm just because it does
>> not work properly.
>
> I don't believe that it not working "properly" (note: properly is often
> in MythTV a matter of opinion!) is the reason behind the shift. It takes
> people a while, but eventually you stop consuming media as broadcast.
> I've seen many people who aren't geeks come to that realisation given it
> allows them to skip ads and to cherry pick in ways they didn't before.

Exactly, refer also to the shift (in markets that can access them) to
hulu, netflix, iPlayer, TVNZ on demand, et al. Many many people use
services like hulu in the US to watch what they want, when they want,
with less adverts. I have seen many people on the -users mailing list
say they will probably give up their cable subscription and replace it
with hulu.

Not to mention the more underground bittorrent, newsgroups etc etc,
which can also ne used in accordance with a time shifting paradigm.

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barryc at bcsystems

Oct 27, 2009, 3:03 PM

Post #16 of 24 (2909 views)
Permalink

Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

2009/10/28 David Zanetti <dave2 [at] wetstring>

> On Tue, 2009-10-27 at 17:26 +1300, Brett Miller wrote:
> > First must thank all who have made MythTV what it is...BUT let's stir up
> the
> > nest...
> >
> > What watching LiveTV paradigm shift..it's a feature !
> >
> > Kind of funny how "LiveTV" has become the old paradigm just because it
> does
> > not work properly.
>
>
I would not be without Myth by choice anymore, but I have trouble agreeing
with all the "works for me" people fully.

Has nobody ever seen myth jump back to a blue screen with something like
"video not working" at the bottom? And nobody else ever had the annoying
"Mythtv wants to record on this channel in 10 seconds... (Blah blah from
memory and I *loosely* paraphrase) either answer yes or no to cancel the
recording and we don't care if your not holding a keyboard, or go back to
the main menu and try something else"
And nobody else tried to switch cards and it didn't work?
Brent is right about fixing bugs, I think we all get feature crazy (some
other competing box out there?) and forget that not all things are fixed.
Perhaps somebody could build a box from scratch with simple steps and tell
us what works and what doesn't ?

On the plus side, we fairly regularly watch something or other on live TV
and if you don't muck around with it heaps it plays ok.

Good discussion :-)

--

Barry Clearwater
Email: barryc [at] bcsystems

hads at nice

Oct 27, 2009, 3:39 PM

Post #17 of 24 (2907 views)
Permalink

Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

On Wed, 2009-10-28 at 11:03 +1300, Barry Clearwater wrote:
> I would not be without Myth by choice anymore, but I have trouble
> agreeing with all the "works for me" people fully.

No need for you to agree with it, it works for me :)

> Has nobody ever seen myth jump back to a blue screen with something
> like "video not working" at the bottom?

Once in a blue moon though not for a while now.

> And nobody else ever had the annoying "Mythtv wants to record on this
> channel in 10 seconds... (Blah blah from memory and I *loosely*
> paraphrase) either answer yes or no to cancel the recording and we
> don't care if your not holding a keyboard, or go back to the main menu
> and try something else"

What would you like it to do, fail to record silently? And, if you have
a remote then you don't need a keyboard.

> And nobody else tried to switch cards and it didn't work?

A known issue with 0.21 and multirec.

> Brent is right about fixing bugs, I think we all get feature crazy
> (some other competing box out there?) and forget that not all things
> are fixed.

Patches. As has been mentioned in this thread elsewhere open source
developers work on what they want to when they want to.

hads

--
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier

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nick.rout at gmail

Oct 27, 2009, 3:47 PM

Post #18 of 24 (2912 views)
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Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 11:39 AM, Hadley Rich <hads [at] nice> wrote:
> On Wed, 2009-10-28 at 11:03 +1300, Barry Clearwater wrote:
>> I would not be without Myth by choice anymore, but I have trouble
>> agreeing with all the "works for me" people fully.
>
> No need for you to agree with it, it works for me :)
>
>> Has nobody ever seen myth jump back to a blue screen with something
>> like "video not working" at the bottom?
>
> Once in a blue moon though not for a while now.
>
>> And nobody else ever had the annoying "Mythtv wants to record on this
>> channel in 10 seconds... (Blah blah from memory and I *loosely*
>> paraphrase) either answer yes or no to cancel the recording and we
>> don't care if your not holding a keyboard, or go back to the main menu
>> and try something else"
>
> What would you like it to do, fail to record silently? And, if you have
> a remote then you don't need a keyboard.
>
>> And nobody else tried to switch cards and it didn't work?
>
> A known issue with 0.21 and multirec.
>

What are you doing to switch cards? Pressing M (=menu) and then
scrolling to switch inputs works for me, everytime. Of course to
actually switch cards, you have to choose the right number. My box has
two dvb-s cards, each as 4 virtual cards. 1-4 are one card, 4-8 are
the other.

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hads at nice

Oct 27, 2009, 4:02 PM

Post #19 of 24 (2908 views)
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Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

On Wed, 2009-10-28 at 11:47 +1300, Nick Rout wrote:
> What are you doing to switch cards? Pressing M (=menu) and then
> scrolling to switch inputs works for me, everytime.

Yes this works for me too. I assumed that the issue being raised was
trying to change channels to a different multiplex when the current
recorder is being used. I can't remember the bug number now.

hads

--
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier

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nick.rout at gmail

Oct 27, 2009, 4:07 PM

Post #20 of 24 (2904 views)
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Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Hadley Rich <hads [at] nice> wrote:
> On Wed, 2009-10-28 at 11:47 +1300, Nick Rout wrote:
>> What are you doing to switch cards? Pressing M (=menu) and then
>> scrolling to switch inputs works for me, everytime.
>
> Yes this works for me too. I assumed that the issue being raised was
> trying to change channels to a different multiplex when the current
> recorder is being used. I can't remember the bug number now.

sorry my question should have been targetted to Barry :)

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steven at openmedia

Oct 27, 2009, 7:01 PM

Post #21 of 24 (2883 views)
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Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

On Wed, October 28, 2009 9:21 am, Nick Rout wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Jonathan Hoskin
> <jonathan.hoskin [at] gmail> wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> >>Playback of an active recording using navigation (pause, FF etc)
>>>> should
>>>> >>work.
>>>>
>>>> >Again, works for me.
>>>>
>>>> It just does not work, it screws up the current position & you can not
>>>> navigate into parts of the recorded file.
>>>> This has had displayed the same behaviour for all my experience of
>>>> MythTV.
>>>> Please try it inside of first half hour of the news.
>>>
>>>
>>> I do this a lot with sports. I've never experienced the problems you're
>>> describing.
>>>
>>> I've been using MythTV for 5 years. In my experience, and from what
>>> I've
>>> seen on the main MythTV mailing list over that time, the issues you are
>>> seeing are not typical. They are most likely caused by something
>>> specific to
>>> your setup.
>>
>>
>> I too have the problem, that is; "Seeking past what was the end of the
>> recording and the time I started watching or seeking". I think it is
>> only
>> occurring when watching live or in-progress recordings of Freeview HD.
>
> I am pretty sure I have seen this issue reported in the main
> mythtv-sers mailing list. Check the archives, there may be a fix or
> news of an impending fix.
>
> The workaround is to exit the recording and start watching it again.
> If you have it set up that way it will start playing again from where
> you left off, and will be correctly indexed up to the current ("live")
> position.
>
> Clunky but it does work. I expect (but don't know) its to do with the
> way h264 is indexed within an mpeg2 ts stream. Remembering that those
> of the devs who live in the US don't have much experience of
> transmitted h264 (their HD tv is pretty well all mpeg2 encoded).

There have been a number of patches this week relating to h264 indexing.
Looks like there attempts to fix TS streams started to break playback of
MKV and other containers. Nice to see that there is work on this
particular area.

Trialling myPVR 3.0 Beta at the moment which uses 0.22 as a base and I'm
very impressed, although doing an upgrade of an environment from a
Knoppmyth 0.20 base to a MythBuntu 9.10 + 0.22 base has been an
interesting mission.

Steve

--------------------------------------------
Steven Ellis - Technical Director
OpenMedia Limited - The Home of myPVR
email - steven [at] openmedia
website - http://www.openmedia.co.nz

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nick.rout at gmail

Oct 27, 2009, 7:07 PM

Post #22 of 24 (2877 views)
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Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Steven Ellis <steven [at] openmedia> wrote:
>
> On Wed, October 28, 2009 9:21 am, Nick Rout wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Jonathan Hoskin
>> <jonathan.hoskin [at] gmail> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>Playback of an active recording using navigation (pause, FF etc)
>>>>> should
>>>>> >>work.
>>>>>
>>>>> >Again, works for me.
>>>>>
>>>>> It just does not work, it screws up the current position & you can not
>>>>> navigate into parts of the recorded file.
>>>>> This has had displayed the same behaviour for all my experience of
>>>>> MythTV.
>>>>> Please try it inside of first half hour of the news.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I do this a lot with sports. I've never experienced the problems you're
>>>> describing.
>>>>
>>>> I've been using MythTV for 5 years. In my experience, and from what
>>>> I've
>>>> seen on the main MythTV mailing list over that time, the issues you are
>>>> seeing are not typical. They are most likely caused by something
>>>> specific to
>>>> your setup.
>>>
>>>
>>> I too have the problem, that is; "Seeking past what was the end of the
>>> recording and the time I started watching or seeking". I think it is
>>> only
>>> occurring when watching live or in-progress recordings of Freeview HD.
>>
>> I am pretty sure I have seen this issue reported in the main
>> mythtv-sers mailing list. Check the archives, there may be a fix or
>> news of an impending fix.
>>
>> The workaround is to exit the recording and start watching it again.
>> If you have it set up that way it will start playing again from where
>> you left off, and will be correctly indexed up to the current ("live")
>> position.
>>
>> Clunky but it does work. I expect (but don't know) its to do with the
>> way h264 is indexed within an mpeg2 ts stream. Remembering that those
>> of the devs who live in the US don't have much experience of
>> transmitted h264 (their HD tv is pretty well all mpeg2 encoded).
>
> There have been a number of patches this week relating to h264 indexing.
> Looks like there attempts to fix TS streams started to break playback of
> MKV and other containers. Nice to see that there is work on this
> particular area.
>
> Trialling myPVR 3.0 Beta at the moment which uses 0.22 as a base and I'm
> very impressed, although doing an upgrade of an environment from a
> Knoppmyth 0.20 base to a MythBuntu 9.10 + 0.22 base has been an
> interesting mission.
>

I know you made the decision a long time ago to switch to *buntu, but
I am looking at reverting back from *buntu to linHES, the successor to
knoppmyth. Based on Arch.

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steven at openmedia

Oct 27, 2009, 7:37 PM

Post #23 of 24 (2874 views)
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Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

On Wed, October 28, 2009 3:07 pm, Nick Rout wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Steven Ellis <steven [at] openmedia>
> wrote:

>> Trialling myPVR 3.0 Beta at the moment which uses 0.22 as a base and I'm
>> very impressed, although doing an upgrade of an environment from a
>> Knoppmyth 0.20 base to a MythBuntu 9.10 + 0.22 base has been an
>> interesting mission.
>>
>
> I know you made the decision a long time ago to switch to *buntu, but
> I am looking at reverting back from *buntu to linHES, the successor to
> knoppmyth. Based on Arch.

The new myPVR layer is reasonably distro agnostic as it all continues to
work on Knoppmyth. The only requirement is debian centric and that is
simply down to the current packaging.

--------------------------------------------
Steven Ellis - Technical Director
OpenMedia Limited - The Home of myPVR
email - steven [at] openmedia
website - http://www.openmedia.co.nz

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blmiller at slingshot

Oct 28, 2009, 1:27 AM

Post #24 of 24 (2862 views)
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Re: The Paradigm Shift [In reply to]

Hi Steve H

>On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 9:01 PM, Brett Miller <blmiller [at] slingshot>
>wrote:

>The tone of your initial message (" Spoken like a true software developer
>that can not / will not debug her/his >code. LiveTV should work flawlessly
>because this should have been debugged months/years ago.") is pretty
> >unpleasant. You should realise that you have no entitlement - all you can
>do is politely ask (beg even) someone >to do something about it. I don't
>think your message was particularly polite.

>Cheers,
>Steve

My message was not meant to be impolite, sorry if any offence was caused to
the author.
Was meant as a tongue in cheek wind-up as (over) reaction to the paradigm
shift phrase.

I'd like to use LiveTV or (active rec) to watch/pause the news & ad skip.
I am sold on the concept of record all, watch later.
LiveTV 0.21 is working fine for me excepting the navigation problem but if
this is fixed in 0.22 ...

I have never used MythTV with SD, so the above problem could be h264 or my
setup.

As a work-around for navigating active recordings, I exit & restart playback
as needed.

Thanks for all the informative & encouraging responses.
I'll give 0.22 another try.

Brett.

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