Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Mythtvnz

DVB multicasting

Index | Next | Previous | View Threaded

ross.jemima at gmail

Oct 26, 2009, 2:46 PM

Post #1 of 21 (3657 views)
Permalink

DVB multicasting

Hi all,

I've been working on multicasting my FreeviewHD content on my LAN. I've
been using mumudvb which I've got up and running (last night). It can
multicast an entire transponder on the network for each card you have.
I have two tuners so I managed to multicast the TVNZ and Canwest
transponders together. I was able to view all these channels using VLC
on an Ubuntu and Windows 7 box over ethernet. The wireless wasn't able
to handle it (not sure why maybe the WPA overhead is too much). Problem
is now I want to get my mythbackend to 'tune' these channels. I
semi-followed JYAs howto here:

http://avenard.com/iptv/Setup.html

Using network recorder as the tuner card and using a m3u playlist to
load the channels. The whole backend setup seems to work without a
hitch but when you try to watch live TV on the frontend it times out
saying that I should have received a lock by now. I'm not sure whether
the problem is a OS configuration problem, a Myth problem or some other
problem as the same m3u playlist file works with VLC on the same
machine. I wonder if it has something to do with subscribing to the
multicast group. This is my m3u file (the IP addresses are the default
ones used by mumudvb):

#EXTM3U
#EXTINF:-1,TV ONE
udp://@239.100.0.0:1234
#EXTINF:-1,TV2
udp://@239.100.0.1:1234
#EXTINF:-1,TVNZ 6
udp://@239.100.0.2:1234
#EXTINF:-1,TVNZ 7
udp://@239.100.0.3:1234
#EXTINF:-1,TV3 PLUS 1
udp://@239.100.1.0:1234
#EXTINF:-1,TV3
udp://@239.100.1.1:1234
#EXTINF:-1,C4
udp://@239.100.1.2:1234

If I can get this to work then it means I can share my tuner hardware
with the entire network. It also means you could (if you wanted to) run
mythbackend in a VM which would enable you to play around with various
configurations...

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz [at] lists
http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

nick.rout at gmail

Oct 26, 2009, 3:20 PM

Post #2 of 21 (3568 views)
Permalink

Re: DVB multicasting [In reply to]

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Ross and Jemima Knudsen
<ross.jemima [at] gmail> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've been working on multicasting my FreeviewHD content on my LAN. I've
> been using mumudvb which I've got up and running (last night). It can
> multicast an entire transponder on the network for each card you have.
> I have two tuners so I managed to multicast the TVNZ and Canwest
> transponders together. I was able to view all these channels using VLC
> on an Ubuntu and Windows 7 box over ethernet. The wireless wasn't able
> to handle it (not sure why maybe the WPA overhead is too much). Problem
> is now I want to get my mythbackend to 'tune' these channels. I
> semi-followed JYAs howto here:
>
> http://avenard.com/iptv/Setup.html
>
> Using network recorder as the tuner card and using a m3u playlist to
> load the channels. The whole backend setup seems to work without a
> hitch but when you try to watch live TV on the frontend it times out
> saying that I should have received a lock by now. I'm not sure whether
> the problem is a OS configuration problem, a Myth problem or some other
> problem as the same m3u playlist file works with VLC on the same
> machine. I wonder if it has something to do with subscribing to the
> multicast group. This is my m3u file (the IP addresses are the default
> ones used by mumudvb):
>
> #EXTM3U
> #EXTINF:-1,TV ONE
> udp://@239.100.0.0:1234
> #EXTINF:-1,TV2
> udp://@239.100.0.1:1234
> #EXTINF:-1,TVNZ 6
> udp://@239.100.0.2:1234
> #EXTINF:-1,TVNZ 7
> udp://@239.100.0.3:1234
> #EXTINF:-1,TV3 PLUS 1
> udp://@239.100.1.0:1234
> #EXTINF:-1,TV3
> udp://@239.100.1.1:1234
> #EXTINF:-1,C4
> udp://@239.100.1.2:1234
>
> If I can get this to work then it means I can share my tuner hardware
> with the entire network. It also means you could (if you wanted to) run
> mythbackend in a VM which would enable you to play around with various
> configurations...

I don't have the answer to your question, but I can say that dvbstream
can also multicast a whole transponder (or less if you don't want all
of it).

I have also seen a setup where vlc was used to stream the transponder
and then used mythtv network recorder. This was before multirec came
available in mythtv, so was a way around the lack of multirec.

So I don't have a solution for your problem, just suggestions for
different ways to kill the cat :)

BTW I would think you'd be lucky to stream even one channel of DVB-T
HD over wireless g, let alone a whole transponder!

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz [at] lists
http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

ross.jemima at gmail

Oct 26, 2009, 4:06 PM

Post #3 of 21 (3561 views)
Permalink

Re: DVB multicasting [In reply to]

Nick Rout wrote:
>> figurations...
>>
>
> I don't have the answer to your question, but I can say that dvbstream
> can also multicast a whole transponder (or less if you don't want all
> of it).
>
> I have also seen a setup where vlc was used to stream the transponder
> and then used mythtv network recorder. This was before multirec came
> available in mythtv, so was a way around the lack of multirec.
>
I did run across some posts using Google along those lines. I didn't
realise that it was a workaround for multirecord. Mumudvb is a fork of
dvbstream I believe and the developer is very helpful with pretty
reasonable documentation so I'm pretty happy with it at the moment. As
for vlc, I also looked at it but decided against it because its a bit of
overkill and I thought it might be a bit resource intensive because of
that. I'm wanting it to run as lean as possible on some fairly light
hardware. I have it running on a converted thin client (HP T5700) and
the processes were using ~40% for each transponder so I can't squeeze
much more out of it!
> So I don't have a solution for your problem, just suggestions for
> different ways to kill the cat :)
>
Mmmm cat...

Thanks for your thoughts Nick.
> BTW I would think you'd be lucky to stream even one channel of DVB-T
> HD over wireless g, let alone a whole transponder!
>
>
I might have been a bit optimistic but I thought one of the lower res
channels might have worked OK. I'm not really up to play with the whole
multicast thing but since they are on separate IP addresses I assumed
that you could just receive each channel separately. I'm not too
worried about it, I just thought I'd say what worked and what didn't.

tortise at paradise

Oct 26, 2009, 5:40 PM

Post #4 of 21 (3566 views)
Permalink

Re: DVB multicasting [In reply to]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross and Jemima Knudsen" <ross.jemima [at] gmail>
To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz [at] lists>
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 10:46 AM
Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB multicasting

Hi all,

I've been working on multicasting my FreeviewHD content on my LAN. I've
been using mumudvb which I've got up and running (last night). It can
multicast an entire transponder on the network for each card you have.
I have two tuners so I managed to multicast the TVNZ and Canwest
transponders together. I was able to view all these channels using VLC
on an Ubuntu and Windows 7 box over ethernet. The wireless wasn't able
to handle it (not sure why maybe the WPA overhead is too much). Problem
is now I want to get my mythbackend to 'tune' these channels. I
semi-followed JYAs howto here:

http://avenard.com/iptv/Setup.html

Using network recorder as the tuner card and using a m3u playlist to
load the channels. The whole backend setup seems to work without a
hitch but when you try to watch live TV on the frontend it times out
saying that I should have received a lock by now. I'm not sure whether
the problem is a OS configuration problem, a Myth problem or some other
problem as the same m3u playlist file works with VLC on the same
machine. I wonder if it has something to do with subscribing to the
multicast group. This is my m3u file (the IP addresses are the default
ones used by mumudvb):

#EXTM3U
#EXTINF:-1,TV ONE
udp://@239.100.0.0:1234
#EXTINF:-1,TV2
udp://@239.100.0.1:1234
#EXTINF:-1,TVNZ 6
udp://@239.100.0.2:1234
#EXTINF:-1,TVNZ 7
udp://@239.100.0.3:1234
#EXTINF:-1,TV3 PLUS 1
udp://@239.100.1.0:1234
#EXTINF:-1,TV3
udp://@239.100.1.1:1234
#EXTINF:-1,C4
udp://@239.100.1.2:1234

If I can get this to work then it means I can share my tuner hardware
with the entire network. It also means you could (if you wanted to) run
mythbackend in a VM which would enable you to play around with various
configurations...

_______________________________________________

Be nice if VLC had vdpau function to allow it to run on lower spec CPU's, I wait....however mplayer (and maybe myth?) also can
display direct LAN streams.

Hdhomeruns to some extent do what you may be seeking, all be it as a single networked device. There is also a TECH version which is
specifically designed to multicast and a DVB-T one is I understand not far away....

Makes me wonder what is the lowset spec CPU requirement for a DVB-T tuner(s) to exist solely for a network tuner device that mimics
the Hdhomerun?

It seems you are considering blasting the LAN with all channels, much like RF also works, however I am not sure the LAN has the
capacity to cope with all that traffic, certainly ordinary wireless LAN is well understood to not cope at all well with multicast
traffic. When a (?optical) LAN can cope with all the traffic the need to control a tuner may diminish, however that seems to be the
current design model. Also with our 3 multi channels one could have 3 tuners, not so sure how it would work in the US with X
channels?!

Not sure what your goals are here, can you clarify the end goals? What sort of config options did you want to play around with?

I'd like to have a myth backend multicast its stream to frontends, so that other frontends could hop on to simultaneously play the
same stream.... Control issues are likely to arise. Perhaps it is a simple as using a multicast IP for the backend IP, I have yet
to try that.

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz [at] lists
http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

nick.rout at gmail

Oct 26, 2009, 6:25 PM

Post #5 of 21 (3577 views)
Permalink

Re: DVB multicasting [In reply to]

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 1:40 PM, <tortise [at] paradise> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ross and Jemima Knudsen" <ross.jemima [at] gmail>
> To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz [at] lists>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 10:46 AM
> Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB multicasting
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've been working on multicasting my FreeviewHD content on my LAN. I've
> been using mumudvb which I've got up and running (last night). It can
> multicast an entire transponder on the network for each card you have.
> I have two tuners so I managed to multicast the TVNZ and Canwest
> transponders together. I was able to view all these channels using VLC
> on an Ubuntu and Windows 7 box over ethernet. The wireless wasn't able
> to handle it (not sure why maybe the WPA overhead is too much). Problem
> is now I want to get my mythbackend to 'tune' these channels. I
> semi-followed JYAs howto here:
>
> http://avenard.com/iptv/Setup.html
>
> Using network recorder as the tuner card and using a m3u playlist to
> load the channels. The whole backend setup seems to work without a
> hitch but when you try to watch live TV on the frontend it times out
> saying that I should have received a lock by now. I'm not sure whether
> the problem is a OS configuration problem, a Myth problem or some other
> problem as the same m3u playlist file works with VLC on the same
> machine. I wonder if it has something to do with subscribing to the
> multicast group. This is my m3u file (the IP addresses are the default
> ones used by mumudvb):
>
> #EXTM3U
> #EXTINF:-1,TV ONE
> udp://@239.100.0.0:1234
> #EXTINF:-1,TV2
> udp://@239.100.0.1:1234
> #EXTINF:-1,TVNZ 6
> udp://@239.100.0.2:1234
> #EXTINF:-1,TVNZ 7
> udp://@239.100.0.3:1234
> #EXTINF:-1,TV3 PLUS 1
> udp://@239.100.1.0:1234
> #EXTINF:-1,TV3
> udp://@239.100.1.1:1234
> #EXTINF:-1,C4
> udp://@239.100.1.2:1234
>
> If I can get this to work then it means I can share my tuner hardware
> with the entire network. It also means you could (if you wanted to) run
> mythbackend in a VM which would enable you to play around with various
> configurations...
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Be nice if VLC had vdpau function to allow it to run on lower spec CPU's, I wait....however mplayer (and maybe myth?) also can
> display direct LAN streams.
>
> Hdhomeruns to some extent do what you may be seeking, all be it as a single networked device. There is also a TECH version which is
> specifically designed to multicast and a DVB-T one is I understand not far away....
>
> Makes me wonder what is the lowset spec CPU requirement for a DVB-T tuner(s) to exist solely for a network tuner device that mimics
> the Hdhomerun?
>
> It seems you are considering blasting the LAN with all channels, much like RF also works, however I am not sure the LAN has the
> capacity to cope with all that traffic, certainly ordinary wireless LAN is well understood to not cope at all well with multicast
> traffic. When a (?optical) LAN can cope with all the traffic the need to control a tuner may diminish, however that seems to be the
> current design model. Also with our 3 multi channels one could have 3 tuners, not so sure how it would work in the US with X
> channels?!
>
> Not sure what your goals are here, can you clarify the end goals? What sort of config options did you want to play around with?

End goals it seems would be to broadcast live TV round the house so
any computer (running any OS) can get any of the live channels upon
demand, while at the same time having myth "tune" to those channels
for when you want to record something for posterity.

Quite handy for a number of users who can't get the "what is live TV
for anyway" paradigm. ie visitors 'expect' to turn the TV on and watch
whats playing now.

>
> I'd like to have a myth backend multicast its stream to frontends, so that other frontends could hop on to simultaneously play the
> same stream.... Control issues are likely to arise. Perhaps it is a simple as using a multicast IP for the backend IP, I have yet
> to try that.

Mostly I would have thoght that the reason you have two frontends is
to allow for different people watching different things. Isn't the
whole idea of MythTV to cater to independent and different tastes in
the same household/user group?

OK there might be times when people want to watch the same thing at
the same time at different TV sets, but Myth doesn't stop you doing
that. Two (or more) frontends can watch the same recording at once.
They won't be synched, but they won't be under multicast either
(becasue different systems will have different inherent delays).
Synchronising even music within a LAN is hard enough, let alone video
as well. So you're not going to achive synchronisation too easily, why
not let them watch independently, and let each room do its own comfort
breaks.

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz [at] lists
http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

tortise at paradise

Oct 26, 2009, 6:57 PM

Post #6 of 21 (3552 views)
Permalink

Re: DVB multicasting [In reply to]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Rout" <nick.rout [at] gmail>
To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz [at] lists>
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] DVB multicasting

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 1:40 PM, <tortise [at] paradise> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ross and Jemima Knudsen" <ross.jemima [at] gmail>
> To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz [at] lists>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 10:46 AM
> Subject: [mythtvnz] DVB multicasting

>
> Not sure what your goals are here, can you clarify the end goals? What sort of config options did you want to play around with?

End goals it seems would be to broadcast live TV round the house so
any computer (running any OS) can get any of the live channels upon
demand, while at the same time having myth "tune" to those channels
for when you want to record something for posterity.

Quite handy for a number of users who can't get the "what is live TV
for anyway" paradigm. ie visitors 'expect' to turn the TV on and watch
whats playing now.
=========================
That was my assumption also, however experience proves it is dangerous to assume much - and asking the question may well help the
questionee - by asking the right question.

>
> I'd like to have a myth backend multicast its stream to frontends, so that other frontends could hop on to simultaneously play the
> same stream.... Control issues are likely to arise. Perhaps it is a simple as using a multicast IP for the backend IP, I have yet
> to try that.

Mostly I would have thoght that the reason you have two frontends is
to allow for different people watching different things. Isn't the
whole idea of MythTV to cater to independent and different tastes in
the same household/user group?

==========================
I think we'd agree myth does this well, however it largely ignores simultaneous broadcast of the same content. (Live TV not so good
either - there can be tuner lock issues limiting simultaneous viewing in a unicast paradigm)

OK there might be times when people want to watch the same thing at
the same time at different TV sets, but Myth doesn't stop you doing
that.
==========================
There is no myth provision for synchronised control / viewing on multiple frontends that I am aware of. LIRC might be our friend
here.

Two (or more) frontends can watch the same recording at once.
They won't be synched, but they won't be under multicast either
(becasue different systems will have different inherent delays).

============================
"Inherent delays" and "won't be synched" wrt multicast??? we'd be talking millisecond delays here, I'd not see that as a concern.
How would that be a concern?

Synchronising even music within a LAN is hard enough, let alone video
as well.
=============================
Nick I understand mutlicast to be closely aligned to broadcast in this context, what is the synchronisation issue? (e.g. vis-a-vis
other broadcast media - what sync problems are there generally?) Frontends are simply tuning into the same (UDP) stream, what is
there to synchronise? (Other than control)

So you're not going to achive synchronisation too easily,
============================
I am yet to be convinced.

why not let them watch independently, and let each room do its own comfort breaks.
=========================
They can now, however as some of us see an advantage in synchronisation I hope you'll consider what it may have to offer and support
us in that.

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz [at] lists
http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

hads at nice

Oct 26, 2009, 7:07 PM

Post #7 of 21 (3549 views)
Permalink

Re: DVB multicasting [In reply to]

On Tue, 2009-10-27 at 14:57 +1300, Tortise wrote:
[...]

That is a most confusing thing to read, any chance you could get an
email client that quotes properly?

hads

--
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz [at] lists
http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

tortise at paradise

Oct 26, 2009, 7:18 PM

Post #8 of 21 (3553 views)
Permalink

Re: DVB multicasting [In reply to]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hadley Rich" <hads [at] nice>
To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz [at] lists>
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:07 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] DVB multicasting

On Tue, 2009-10-27 at 14:57 +1300, Tortise wrote:
[...]

That is a most confusing thing to read, any chance you could get an
email client that quotes properly?

==========
While it is common to use ">" and ">>>" etc I am not sure there is a proper convention and various email clients can be configured
in many different ways.

I do not like the disparate ways emails get "quoted properly" when that involves insertion of various symbols and the insertion of
new unintended line breaks, I guess everyone does as they choose within the list constraints and preferences. Is there a list
decree over and above bottom posting?

Can you or someone define what is "quotes properly" for us here?

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz [at] lists
http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

g8ecj at gilks

Oct 26, 2009, 8:34 PM

Post #9 of 21 (3538 views)
Permalink

Re: DVB multicasting [In reply to]

> That is a most confusing thing to read, any chance you could get an
> email client that quotes properly?
>
> ==========
> While it is common to use ">" and ">>>" etc I am not sure there is a
> proper convention and various email clients can be configured
> in many different ways.
>
> I do not like the disparate ways emails get "quoted properly" when that
> involves insertion of various symbols and the insertion of
> new unintended line breaks, I guess everyone does as they choose within
> the list constraints and preferences. Is there a list
> decree over and above bottom posting?
>
> Can you or someone define what is "quotes properly" for us here?

As far as I remember its defined in RFC 1855. Certainly been the '>'
character for the 20 years or so I've been using email...It may have
originated from one of the original *nix or DOS mailers but was certainly
broken by Microsoft when Outlook came along (just like they broke default
cursor position which should be AFTER the text being replied to).

Each nested quote (which should of course be trimmed) adds one level of
'>' characters so you can see who said what - as you can see above, it
looks like Hads said the whole lot...

All emails should be in plain text (no html), trimmed where appropriate,
quoted and bottom posted (or interleaved if it can be easily seen who said
what!)

--
Robin Gilks

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz [at] lists
http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

ross.jemima at gmail

Oct 26, 2009, 9:12 PM

Post #10 of 21 (3535 views)
Permalink

Re: DVB multicasting [In reply to]

Not wanting to steer the conversation in any particular direction (I
think its starting to get interesting). But it isn't predominantly for
live TV that I'm trying to do this seemingly crazy setup. I'm trying to
make better use of the tuner hardware that I have so that multiple PCs
with multiple OSes can all use the same hardware. Then my Mythbackend
can continue to function recording any channel and streaming content to
any frontends and I can use GVPBR/mediaportal/WMC/VLC or anything else
that handle IPTV as well without any impact on anything else.

I believe Freeview (DVB-S) is all on the one multiplex so you should
only need 1 tuner and for DVB-T you should only need 3 (for Hamilton
anyway). So in the end it only adds the extra functionality to Myth.

Update: My playlist file didn't work in vlc, I had to ad '@'s in each ip
address then it worked in vlc. Didn't make any difference in Myth.
Playback doesn't work for Mplayer or Totem either but Mplayer wanted to
put http:// in front of the URl when entered manually.

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz [at] lists
http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

hads at nice

Oct 26, 2009, 9:21 PM

Post #11 of 21 (3542 views)
Permalink

Re: DVB multicasting [In reply to]

On Tue, 2009-10-27 at 17:12 +1300, Ross and Jemima Knudsen wrote:
> I believe Freeview (DVB-S) is all on the one multiplex so you should
> only need 1 tuner

You need two tuners for the two multiplexes on DVB-S

hads

--
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz [at] lists
http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

ross.jemima at gmail

Oct 26, 2009, 11:46 PM

Post #12 of 21 (3520 views)
Permalink

Re: DVB multicasting [In reply to]

my bad, its been a while. Can you tune them similtaneously off the same
dish?

Hadley Rich wrote:
> On Tue, 2009-10-27 at 17:12 +1300, Ross and Jemima Knudsen wrote:
>
>> I believe Freeview (DVB-S) is all on the one multiplex so you should
>> only need 1 tuner
>>
>
> You need two tuners for the two multiplexes on DVB-S
>
> hads
>
>

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz [at] lists
http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

criggie at criggie

Oct 27, 2009, 12:09 AM

Post #13 of 21 (3525 views)
Permalink

Re: DVB multicasting [In reply to]

Ross and Jemima Knudsen wrote:
> my bad, its been a while. Can you tune them similtaneously off the same
> dish?

Yes - definitely. They're both the same polarisation.

> Hadley Rich wrote:
>> On Tue, 2009-10-27 at 17:12 +1300, Ross and Jemima Knudsen wrote:
>>
>>> I believe Freeview (DVB-S) is all on the one multiplex so you should
>>> only need 1 tuner
>>>
>> You need two tuners for the two multiplexes on DVB-S

--
Criggie

http://criggie.dyndns.org/

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz [at] lists
http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

nick.rout at gmail

Oct 27, 2009, 2:03 AM

Post #14 of 21 (3531 views)
Permalink

Re: DVB multicasting [In reply to]

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Tortise <tortise [at] paradise> wrote:

>
> OK there might be times when people want to watch the same thing at
> the same time at different TV sets, but Myth doesn't stop you doing
> that.
> ==========================
> There is no myth provision for synchronised control / viewing on multiple frontends that I am aware of. LIRC might be our friend
> here.

There is no provision for synchronised viewing. However if we all want
to watch top gear live then you set it to record on the backend. Any
numbber of frontends can watch that recording, live or within a few
seconds of live. (Why you would want to, and have to sit thru the ads
is another point)

>
>
> Two (or more) frontends can watch the same recording at once.
> They won't be synched, but they won't be under multicast either
> (becasue different systems will have different inherent delays).
>
> ============================
> "Inherent delays" and "won't be synched" wrt multicast??? we'd be talking millisecond delays here, I'd not see that as a concern.
> How would that be a concern?
>

I send a signal out multicast. To all intents and purposes each system
on my lan gets it simultaneously. However each machine has different
hardware. There could easily be a delay that is annoying, in that
there will be an "echo" in the sound. A few milliseconds can be
enough.

>
> Synchronising even music within a LAN is hard enough, let alone video
> as well.
> =============================
> Nick I understand mutlicast to be closely aligned to broadcast in this context, what is the synchronisation issue? (e.g. vis-a-vis
> other broadcast media - what sync problems are there generally?) Frontends are simply tuning into the same (UDP) stream, what is
> there to synchronise? (Other than control)
>

see above. But maybe I exaggerate the problem. You can try it now with
the OP's setup suggestion. Let us know the result (I have no desire
for live TV and no desire for synchronisation)

> So you're not going to achive synchronisation too easily,
> ============================
> I am yet to be convinced.
>
> why not let them watch independently, and let each room do its own comfort breaks.
> =========================
> They can now, however as some of us see an advantage in synchronisation I hope you'll consider what it may have to offer and support
> us in that.
>

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz [at] lists
http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

tortise at paradise

Oct 27, 2009, 3:01 AM

Post #15 of 21 (3535 views)
Permalink

Re: DVB multicasting [In reply to]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Rout" <nick.rout [at] gmail>
To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz [at] lists>
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] DVB multicasting

There is no provision for synchronised viewing. However if we all want
to watch top gear live then you set it to record on the backend. Any
numbber of frontends can watch that recording, live or within a few
seconds of live. (Why you would want to, and have to sit thru the ads
is another point)

simultaneous synchronised multicast playback of recordings, +/- commercial deletions.

(Have tried re-enabling the "<", the Gates derived ware will not add them back in! Perhaps a reboot will re-enable it in due
course!)

> Two (or more) frontends can watch the same recording at once.
> They won't be synched, but they won't be under multicast either
> (becasue different systems will have different inherent delays).
>
> ============================
> "Inherent delays" and "won't be synched" wrt multicast??? we'd be talking millisecond delays here, I'd not see that as a concern.
> How would that be a concern?
>

I send a signal out multicast. To all intents and purposes each system
on my lan gets it simultaneously. However each machine has different
hardware. There could easily be a delay that is annoying, in that
there will be an "echo" in the sound. A few milliseconds can be
enough.

an issue anyway. Would it be an issue for echo between rooms? The volume in another room would need to be high enough to be heard
in the adjacent room. Is that the potential echo you are referring to Nick, I'd not see that as a concern. (Or are you suggesting
an echo is returned over ethernet? Not to my expectation using multicast udp.)

Given we have not done the proposed multicast synchronisation it seems the echo problem is derived in no more than informed
prediction. What is the echo path you predict?

> You can try it now with the OP's setup suggestion. Let us know the result.

I'm interested. What's the "OP setup suggestion"?

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz [at] lists
http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

nick.rout at gmail

Oct 27, 2009, 12:04 PM

Post #16 of 21 (3521 views)
Permalink

Re: DVB multicasting [In reply to]

On Tue, Oct 27, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Tortise <tortise [at] paradise> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nick Rout" <nick.rout [at] gmail>
> To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz [at] lists>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 10:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] DVB multicasting
>
> There is no provision for synchronised viewing. However if we all want
> to watch top gear live then you set it to record on the backend. Any
> numbber of frontends can watch that recording, live or within a few
> seconds of live. (Why you would want to, and have to sit thru the ads
> is another point)
>
> => Apologies Nick for not being clear, I agree I have no issue with Live TV, it can be watched....live! I was really referring to
> simultaneous synchronised multicast playback of recordings, +/- commercial deletions.
>
> (Have tried re-enabling the "<", the Gates derived ware will not add them back in! Perhaps a reboot will re-enable it in due
> course!)
>
>

get a new mailer. how anyone can seriously want to use OE is beyond
me. Please fix whatever is wrong as you are clearly pissing more than
one person off.

>
>> Two (or more) frontends can watch the same recording at once.
>> They won't be synched, but they won't be under multicast either
>> (becasue different systems will have different inherent delays).
>>
>> ============================
>> "Inherent delays" and "won't be synched" wrt multicast??? we'd be talking millisecond delays here, I'd not see that as a concern.
>> How would that be a concern?
>>
>
> I send a signal out multicast. To all intents and purposes each system
> on my lan gets it simultaneously. However each machine has different
> hardware. There could easily be a delay that is annoying, in that
> there will be an "echo" in the sound. A few milliseconds can be
> enough.
>
> => I agree this might be an issue if those different pc speakers were in the same room, but then depending where one sat it would be
> an issue anyway. Would it be an issue for echo between rooms? The volume in another room would need to be high enough to be heard
> in the adjacent room. Is that the potential echo you are referring to Nick, I'd not see that as a concern.

If there is no audio connection between the rooms, why do you need to
synchronise? Why not just let everyone watch independently?

> (Or are you suggesting
> an echo is returned over ethernet? Not to my expectation using multicast udp.)
>

No I am talking about the different delays inherent in the signal
processing inside each front end leading to unsynchronised sound,
which will _sound_ like an echo.

> Given we have not done the proposed multicast synchronisation it seems the echo problem is derived in no more than informed
> prediction. What is the echo path you predict?
>
>> You can try it now with the OP's setup suggestion. Let us know the result.
>
> I'm interested. What's the "OP setup suggestion"?
>

I'll be plainer: If you want to try multicast, try the Original
Poster's setup and let us know the results.

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz [at] lists
http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

tortise at paradise

Nov 5, 2009, 10:47 AM

Post #17 of 21 (3183 views)
Permalink

Re: DVB multicasting [In reply to]

criggie at criggie

Nov 5, 2009, 11:00 AM

Post #18 of 21 (3189 views)
Permalink

Re: DVB multicasting [In reply to]

Tortise wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hadley Rich" <hads [at] nice>
> To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz [at] lists>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] DVB multicasting
>
>
>> On Tue, 2009-10-27 at 14:57 +1300, Tortise wrote:
>> [...]
>>
>> That is a most confusing thing to read, any chance you could get an
>> email client that quotes properly?
>>
>
>
> Any recommendations please, preferably with comments about the recommendations?

The email software you used to send this message is configured fine.

--
Criggie

http://criggie.dyndns.org/

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz [at] lists
http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

nick.rout at gmail

Nov 5, 2009, 11:07 AM

Post #19 of 21 (3188 views)
Permalink

Re: DVB multicasting [In reply to]

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 7:47 AM, Tortise <tortise [at] paradise> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hadley Rich" <hads [at] nice>
> To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz [at] lists>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] DVB multicasting
>
>
>> On Tue, 2009-10-27 at 14:57 +1300, Tortise wrote:
>> [...]
>>
>> That is a most confusing thing to read, any chance you could get an
>> email client that quotes properly?
>>
>
>
> Any recommendations please, preferably with comments about the recommendations?
>

If you must insist on that godawful OE, see here:

http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

or

http://mailformat.dan.info/config/oex.html

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz [at] lists
http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

tortise at paradise

Nov 5, 2009, 3:08 PM

Post #20 of 21 (3173 views)
Permalink

Re: DVB multicasting [In reply to]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Rout" <nick.rout [at] gmail>
To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz [at] lists>
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] DVB multicasting

>>
>> Any recommendations please, preferably with comments about the recommendations?
>>
>
> If you must insist on that godawful OE, see here:
>

Nick

I was taught to read the question and to answer the question asked. (Interesting recommendation from a tertiary educated person)

I'd like to clarify the question was an open one with no insistence on anything, however I am interested in Linux based
recommendations.

FWIW my plan has been (for a long time) to change from OE when I can get reliable remote access to the client from remote default XP
machines (requirement outside my influence / control) . At the moment I might be able to do this by {Remote XP Client} => {LAN XP
Client running VNC client} => {Ubuntu Variant / VNC Server / Email Client} however I'd prefer a direct hop instead of three hop
process. (Note some remote XP PC's I have to use may not have the ability to install VNC client.)

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz [at] lists
http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

nick.rout at gmail

Nov 5, 2009, 3:24 PM

Post #21 of 21 (3169 views)
Permalink

Re: DVB multicasting [In reply to]

On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Tortise <tortise [at] paradise> wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nick Rout" <nick.rout [at] gmail>
> To: "MythTV in NZ" <mythtvnz [at] lists>
> Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 8:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] DVB multicasting
>
>>>
>>> Any recommendations please, preferably with comments about the recommendations?
>>>
>>
>> If you must insist on that godawful OE, see here:
>>
>
> Nick
>
> I was taught to read the question and to answer the question asked. (Interesting recommendation from a tertiary educated person)
>
> I'd like to clarify the question was an open one with no insistence on anything, however I am interested in Linux based
> recommendations.
>
> FWIW my plan has been (for a long time) to change from OE when I can get reliable remote access to the client from remote default XP
> machines (requirement outside my influence / control) . At the moment I might be able to do this by {Remote XP Client} => {LAN XP
> Client running VNC client} => {Ubuntu Variant / VNC Server / Email Client} however I'd prefer a direct hop instead of three hop
> process. (Note some remote XP PC's I have to use may not have the ability to install VNC client.)

Getting quite OT now but if you want remote access I recommend a setup
that looks something like this:

You have a linux mail server (use your mythbackend if you don't want
another linux box). Have it collect all your email from your ISP and
deliver it to an imap server. It will also sort your email into
folders and look for spam.

Set up your email clients from within your LAN to use imap. That way
you get the same view of your email no matter what client and what OS
you use. It gives you an opportunity to try different clients too,
without creating a hodge podge of pop clients all over the place. With
imap all your mail stays on the server (until you delete it of
course).

For access outside your LAN use a webmail server like roundcube,
squirrelmail etc. As long as you have a reasonable browser it doesn't
matter which OS you are using to view your mail.

Of course you can also run imap from outside the lan, but the efficacy
depends on your ISP speeds.

I ran a setup like this for years, mail server at the office, various
email clients doing imap at the office on win2k, various email clients
doing imap at home on win2k and linux, web mail for use on holiday,
friend's houses etc. When I lost the ability to run the server at the
office I switched to gmail, which although not ideal, is pretty damn
handy.

_______________________________________________
mythtvnz mailing list
mythtvnz [at] lists
http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/

Index | Next | Previous | View Threaded

Interested in having your list archived? Contact Gossamer Threads