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ross.jemima at gmail

Oct 23, 2009, 7:16 PM

Post #1 of 10 (628 views)
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General questions

Hi all,

Just was wondering a couple of things.

Is Mythtv suitable for commercial use (ie sold as part of a media
centre) or are there copyright or other legal infringements?

Has anyone been able to use the UPNP backend in Myth? It shows up on my
Windows machine but I can't play anything back using WMP it just locks
up. Also I seem to get several entries showing up for the same
recording. Myth doesn't make use of UPNP does it? Just wondering
because when you haven't set up the backend connection correctly you get
the error message that no UPNP backends were found.

Cheers
Ross

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olivuts at yahoo

Oct 23, 2009, 8:29 PM

Post #2 of 10 (602 views)
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Re: General questions [In reply to]

----- Original Message ----
> From: Ross and Jemima Knudsen <ross.jemima[at]gmail.com>
> To: MythTV in NZ <mythtvnz[at]lists.linuxnut.co.nz>
> Sent: Sat, October 24, 2009 3:16:44 PM
> Subject: [mythtvnz] General questions
>
> Hi all,
>
> Just was wondering a couple of things.
>
> Is Mythtv suitable for commercial use (ie sold as part of a media
> centre) or are there copyright or other legal infringements?
>
> Has anyone been able to use the UPNP backend in Myth?  It shows up on my
> Windows machine but I can't play anything back using WMP it just locks
> up.  Also I seem to get several entries showing up for the same
> recording.  Myth doesn't make use of UPNP does it?  Just wondering
> because when you haven't set up the backend connection correctly you get
> the error message that no UPNP backends were found.
>
> Cheers
> Ross
>
Hi Ross,

the myth UPNP server works for me, somewhat.

I have a couple of clients - a Denon AV receiver and a Samsung TV. The Denon works fine (audio only), the Samsung although it can show the list of files always say file is in the wrong format to play.

In the end I don't use the myth UPNP with my Denon (even though it works) as I don't like the way it lists my music. I ended up using Fuppes and after quite a bit of setup I'm very happy with it.


Cheers

Steve




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dave2 at wetstring

Oct 25, 2009, 3:09 AM

Post #3 of 10 (586 views)
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Re: General questions [In reply to]

On Sat, 2009-10-24 at 15:16 +1300, Ross and Jemima Knudsen wrote:

> Is Mythtv suitable for commercial use (ie sold as part of a media
> centre) or are there copyright or other legal infringements?

Suitable I can't comment on, but I can give you some suggestions of
things to think about.

Firstly, I Am Not A Lawyer, and you should consult one.

Copyright over the code etc remains with MythTVs authors regardless of
what you do. What's different is the license -- GPL in this case --
which allows you to distribute and modify the code under specific terms.

Those terms are, broadly, that you must make available the source of
your work if you provide it in a binary form to someone else. Payment
isn't actually required, that is the terms apply even if you charge
nothing for it.

What this means in practice is that if you were to sell such a box,
based on Linux and MythTV, and various other sources (because, remember,
you need to consider *all* of the software involved and their licenses),
you would need to provide the source used to create it.

Even if you provided such a box with no modifications, you still need to
provide the source. If you do make modifications to MythTV's source,
then you very much MUST provide your modifications in source form as
well. That is, you can't change MythTV and claim your changes are
secret, the GPL won't allow you to do that and you will find yourself in
court.

It gets more complicated when you start getting into whether your work
is bound to GPL work. The safest thing to do is consider everything you
do governed by the GPL. This is particularly true if you distribute it
as a single image or install, that's bound enough by GPL's terms to
consider the GPL for the entire contents.

Be Extremely Careful about source code you have from other sources, you
may be infringing on the rights of others when you mingle it with GPL
code.

Lastly, while the GPL does not actually require you to offer your
modifications upstream (ie, to MythTVs maintainers), it's considered
polite to do so.

Many companies have sold products based on Open Source, the key thing is
to ensure you understand how your usage of it, and your modifications
and bundling of it, is affected by the license.


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matt.poff at headfirst

Oct 25, 2009, 12:09 PM

Post #4 of 10 (579 views)
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Re: General questions [In reply to]

On 25/10/2009, at 11:09 PM, David Zanetti wrote:

>> Is Mythtv suitable for commercial use (ie sold as part of a media
>> centre) or are there copyright or other legal infringements?

Something you would definitely want to avoid is including any
components/software which provide proprietary media codecs such as
the DivX and other libraries available for mplayer - particularly
where format shifting is involved.


jonathan.hoskin at gmail

Oct 25, 2009, 1:17 PM

Post #5 of 10 (574 views)
Permalink
Re: General questions [In reply to]

>
> Has anyone been able to use the UPNP backend in Myth?


I use UPnP from time to time to play recorded HD TV on my PS3. The PS3
doesn't support LATM audio however, so it's only TV3 at this stage.

Also, a bit OT, but I discovered djmount last night, which mounts a remote
UPnP share as a local filesystem via fuse. Great for actually being able to
see your library on a non-Myth system, especially given the naming and
sorting options that the Myth UPnP implementation offers.

Jonathan


steven at openmedia

Oct 25, 2009, 4:08 PM

Post #6 of 10 (571 views)
Permalink
Re: General questions [In reply to]

On 24/10/2009, at 3:16 PM, Ross and Jemima Knudsen wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Just was wondering a couple of things.
>
> Is Mythtv suitable for commercial use (ie sold as part of a media
> centre) or are there copyright or other legal infringements?

Yes as long as you take all of the appropriate steps, some of which
have already been covered here.

For any proprietary codecs such as MPEG4/MPEG2/H.264 you can license
them. Interestingly the MP3 patents mostly don't apply here in NZ.

As has been mentioned there are issues around format shifting of non-
audio formats which is where you will be taking a risk if you leave
transcoding features enabled.

Most of the rest comes down to GPL compliance. With myPVR we made
sure we contributed back upstream and also made source available to
our customers.



>
> Has anyone been able to use the UPNP backend in Myth? It shows up
> on my
> Windows machine but I can't play anything back using WMP it just locks
> up. Also I seem to get several entries showing up for the same
> recording. Myth doesn't make use of UPNP does it? Just wondering
> because when you haven't set up the backend connection correctly you
> get
> the error message that no UPNP backends were found.


Is this with MythTV 0.21 or 0.22. A lot of the UPNP/DLNA support can
vary dramatically from client to client in my experience.

Steve


Steven Ellis - Technical Director
OpenMedia Limited
email - steven[at]openmedia.co.nz
website - http://www.openmedia.co.nz


ross.jemima at gmail

Oct 26, 2009, 2:33 PM

Post #7 of 10 (547 views)
Permalink
Re: General questions [In reply to]

Steven Ellis wrote:
>
> Yes as long as you take all of the appropriate steps, some of which
> have already been covered here.
>
> For any proprietary codecs such as MPEG4/MPEG2/H.264 you can license
> them. Interestingly the MP3 patents mostly don't apply here in NZ.
>
> As has been mentioned there are issues around format shifting of
> non-audio formats which is where you will be taking a risk if you
> leave transcoding features enabled.
>
> Most of the rest comes down to GPL compliance. With myPVR we made
> sure we contributed back upstream and also made source available to
> our customers.
>
Thanks everyone for your comments regarding the copyright enfringement
thing. I was more interested in the whole codec thing for example with
mp3s where I believe the actual codec is under patent or something. I
was just what liability you might run into with selling commercial Myth
systems. I can understand that the transcoding options would probably
cause problems but wouldnt' be a problem for TV at the moment as we
can't transcode it at the moment anyway.

Regarding the GPL issues. I have no problem there. I think it would be
pretty disrespectful to improve Myth and then not to contribute it back
to the community who gave you it to start with! Only things I could see
you wouldn't give back would be things like a customised GUI or some
configuration modifications you made.
>
>
> Is this with MythTV 0.21 or 0.22. A lot of the UPNP/DLNA support can
> vary dramatically from client to client in my experience.
>
>
I've been burnt too many times to use bleeding edge software so I'm
sticking to 0.21 until I am convinced its stable (some may debate
whether 0.22 is bleeding edge or not). I just think it would be cool to
get a DLNA TV and not have to worry about a frontend. UPNP seem to have
a specification for controlling most backend functions (scheduling
recordings, EPG etc) that you need with room to implement custom
functions as well. Having a standard communication protocol might make
it easier to have different Myth versions interoperating which isn't
possible at the moment. You could also then just run mysql locally
instead of over the network, and there is room for
security/authentication too. Can Myth currently handle different user
levels say if you have untrusted users on the network?

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killerkiwi2005 at gmail

Oct 26, 2009, 4:00 PM

Post #8 of 10 (546 views)
Permalink
Re: General questions [In reply to]

> I've been burnt too many times to use bleeding edge software so I'm
> sticking to 0.21 until I am convinced its stable (some may debate
> whether 0.22 is bleeding edge or not).  I just think it would be cool to
> get a DLNA TV and not have to worry about a frontend.  UPNP seem to have
> a specification for controlling most backend functions (scheduling
> recordings, EPG etc) that you need with room to implement custom
> functions as well.  Having a standard communication protocol might make
> it easier to have different Myth versions interoperating which isn't
> possible at the moment.  You could also then just run mysql locally
> instead of over the network, and there is room for
> security/authentication too.  Can Myth currently handle different user
> levels say if you have untrusted users on the network?

The UPNP dosn't seem that flash to me, last time I tried it with 20.1
you could not skip forward or backwards (using xmbc as the client same
for totem)
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/UPnP#Developers_notes_on_UPnP

>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
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>



--
"Weekends don't count unless you spend them doing something completely
pointless. " - Calven

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ross.jemima at gmail

Oct 26, 2009, 4:12 PM

Post #9 of 10 (545 views)
Permalink
Re: General questions [In reply to]

Jason Taylor wrote:
>
> The UPNP dosn't seem that flash to me, last time I tried it with 20.1
> you could not skip forward or backwards (using xmbc as the client same
> for totem)
> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/UPnP#Developers_notes_on_UPnP
>
>
>
I'd been reading that same page. Down the bottom of it is the reason
why I was asking. The author is asking for interest in implementing
'UPNP Remote User Interface' to achieve the advanced PVR controls.

I get the same problems using XBMC and myth with the fastforward/rewind
issues etc. Achieving the above might fix that?...


killerkiwi2005 at gmail

Oct 26, 2009, 11:24 PM

Post #10 of 10 (534 views)
Permalink
Re: General questions [In reply to]

I'd hope so the spec is at
http://www.upnp.org/resources/specifications.asp

I guess AVTransport::Seek(), is what needs to be implemented

2009/10/27 Ross and Jemima Knudsen <ross.jemima[at]gmail.com>:
> Jason Taylor wrote:
>
> The UPNP dosn't seem that flash to me, last time I tried it with 20.1
> you could not skip forward or backwards (using xmbc as the client same
> for totem)
> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/UPnP#Developers_notes_on_UPnP
>
>
>
>
> I'd been reading that same page.  Down the bottom of it is the reason why I
> was asking.  The author is asking for interest in implementing 'UPNP Remote
> User Interface' to achieve the advanced PVR controls.
>
> I get the same problems using XBMC and myth with the fastforward/rewind
> issues etc.  Achieving the above might fix that?...
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz[at]lists.linuxnut.co.nz
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>
>



--
"Weekends don't count unless you spend them doing something completely
pointless. " - Calven

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