Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Mythtvnz

Zotac ION ATOM boot device recommendation / opinions

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olivuts at yahoo

Jul 21, 2009, 9:07 PM

Post #1 of 14 (4269 views)
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Zotac ION ATOM boot device recommendation / opinions

Now that I have a HD frontend working with VDPAU I'm looking at building a new frontend using a Zotac Ion board.

It seems that there are at least 4 options for a boot device:

Network booting - but this seems too complicated for my simple mind

Using a standard hard drive

Using a laptop drive and appropriate adapter.

Using a CF card and appropriate adapter

I would like to minimise power and noise, so I lean toward the CF card, however, I read that you can wear out the flash with too many writes, so this may not be the best long term solution.

I'd appreciate any thoughts / opinions on the subject.

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criggie at criggie

Jul 21, 2009, 9:16 PM

Post #2 of 14 (4146 views)
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Re: Zotac ION ATOM boot device recommendation / opinions [In reply to]

Steve V wrote:
> I would like to minimise power and noise, so I lean toward the CF card,
> however, I read that you can wear out the flash with too many writes, so
> this may not be the best long term solution.
> I'd appreciate any thoughts / opinions on the subject.

Put in enough ram that you don't need swap. Don't create swap,
and you'll be fine. Whats a 2GB CF worth now... $20 retail?
When it does wear out, replace it.

--
Criggie

http://criggie.dyndns.org/

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olivuts at yahoo

Jul 21, 2009, 9:23 PM

Post #3 of 14 (4146 views)
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Re: Zotac ION ATOM boot device recommendation / opinions [In reply to]

----- Original Message ----
> From: Criggie <criggie [at] criggie>
> To: MythTV in NZ <mythtvnz [at] lists>
> Sent: Wednesday, 22 July, 2009 4:16:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] Zotac ION ATOM boot device recommendation / opinions
>
> Steve V wrote:
> > I would like to minimise power and noise, so I lean toward the CF card,
> > however, I read that you can wear out the flash with too many writes, so
> > this may not be the best long term solution.
> > I'd appreciate any thoughts / opinions on the subject.
>
> Put in enough ram that you don't need swap. Don't create swap,
> and you'll be fine. Whats a 2GB CF worth now... $20 retail?
> When it does wear out, replace it.
>
>
> --
> Criggie
>
> http://criggie.dyndns.org/

Is 2GB enough?

2GB around $20, 4GB around $30

Steve

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nick.rout at gmail

Jul 21, 2009, 10:02 PM

Post #4 of 14 (4151 views)
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Re: Zotac ION ATOM boot device recommendation / opinions [In reply to]

On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steve V<olivuts [at] yahoo> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Criggie <criggie [at] criggie>
>> To: MythTV in NZ <mythtvnz [at] lists>
>> Sent: Wednesday, 22 July, 2009 4:16:14 PM
>> Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] Zotac ION ATOM boot device recommendation / opinions
>>
>> Steve V wrote:
>> > I would like to minimise power and noise, so I lean toward the CF card,
>> > however, I read that you can wear out the flash with too many writes, so
>> > this may not be the best long term solution.
>> > I'd appreciate any thoughts / opinions on the subject.
>>
>> Put in enough ram that you don't need swap. Don't create swap,
>> and you'll be fine. Whats a 2GB CF worth now... $20 retail?
>> When it does wear out, replace it.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Criggie
>>
>> http://criggie.dyndns.org/
>
> Is 2GB enough?
>
> 2GB around $20, 4GB around $30
>
> Steve

Are you running the whole thing off the CF card or just booting and
then running root over NFS?

>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz [at] lists
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
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>

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criggie at criggie

Jul 21, 2009, 10:08 PM

Post #5 of 14 (4149 views)
Permalink

Re: Zotac ION ATOM boot device recommendation / opinions [In reply to]

Steve V wrote:
>> Steve V wrote:
>> > I would like to minimise power and noise, so I lean toward the CF
>> card,
>> > however, I read that you can wear out the flash with too many writes,
>> so
>> > this may not be the best long term solution.
>> > I'd appreciate any thoughts / opinions on the subject.

>> Put in enough ram that you don't need swap. Don't create swap,
>> and you'll be fine. Whats a 2GB CF worth now... $20 retail?
>> When it does wear out, replace it.

> Is 2GB enough?
> 2GB around $20, 4GB around $30

True - my messy TV frontend has 2.5 GB in use but for $10 why mess around.

--
Criggie

http://criggie.dyndns.org/

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paul at kcbbs

Jul 21, 2009, 11:12 PM

Post #6 of 14 (4138 views)
Permalink

Re: Zotac ION ATOM boot device recommendation / opinions [In reply to]

On Wednesday 22 July 2009 04:07:56 pm Steve V wrote:
> Now that I have a HD frontend working with VDPAU I'm looking at building a
> new frontend using a Zotac Ion board.
>
> It seems that there are at least 4 options for a boot device:
>
> Network booting - but this seems too complicated for my simple mind
>
> Using a standard hard drive
>
> Using a laptop drive and appropriate adapter.
>
> Using a CF card and appropriate adapter
>
> I would like to minimise power and noise, so I lean toward the CF card,
> however, I read that you can wear out the flash with too many writes, so
> this may not be the best long term solution.
>
> I'd appreciate any thoughts / opinions on the subject.
>
>
>
I have two of these now and I network boot them. It was really very easy to
set up using the MythControlCenter in mythbuntu! The only problem I have
with it is that after it boots, the first time you enter something like LiveTV
or Media Library, it is *really* slow. Do it again and it's fast. Just kind of
annoying for the wife & kids.

Benefits are that updates are really easy to do. Just "sudo chroot" to the
directory with the image and do an update. Then use ltsp-update-image
and ltsp-update-kernels, and reboot the frontends!

You also get a NFS mount for each front end so it can have it's own config
files. Nice if you have different remotes etc.

I tried setting up a front end with minimyth on a USB stick as well but havn't
really persevered with it. I was wanting to see if this would help with the
slow down mentioned above.

Hope this helps.

Paul

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olivuts at yahoo

Jul 22, 2009, 2:51 AM

Post #7 of 14 (4144 views)
Permalink

Re: Zotac ION ATOM boot device recommendation / opinions [In reply to]

----- Original Message ----
> From: Nick Rout <nick.rout [at] gmail>
> To: MythTV in NZ <mythtvnz [at] lists>
> Sent: Wednesday, 22 July, 2009 5:02:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] Zotac ION ATOM boot device recommendation / opinions
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Steve V wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> >> From: Criggie
> >> To: MythTV in NZ
> >> Sent: Wednesday, 22 July, 2009 4:16:14 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] Zotac ION ATOM boot device recommendation / opinions
> >>
> >> Steve V wrote:
> >> > I would like to minimise power and noise, so I lean toward the CF card,
> >> > however, I read that you can wear out the flash with too many writes, so
> >> > this may not be the best long term solution.
> >> > I'd appreciate any thoughts / opinions on the subject.
> >>
> >> Put in enough ram that you don't need swap. Don't create swap,
> >> and you'll be fine. Whats a 2GB CF worth now... $20 retail?
> >> When it does wear out, replace it.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Criggie
> >>
> >> http://criggie.dyndns.org/
> >
> > Is 2GB enough?
> >
> > 2GB around $20, 4GB around $30
> >
> > Steve
>
> Are you running the whole thing off the CF card or just booting and
> then running root over NFS?
>

I thought I would run the whole thing off the CF card, but it sounds like there are even more options.

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olivuts at yahoo

Jul 22, 2009, 2:54 AM

Post #8 of 14 (4135 views)
Permalink

Re: Zotac ION ATOM boot device recommendation / opinions [In reply to]

----- Original Message ----
> From: Paul Kendall <paul [at] kcbbs>
> To: MythTV in NZ <mythtvnz [at] lists>
> Sent: Wednesday, 22 July, 2009 6:12:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] Zotac ION ATOM boot device recommendation / opinions
>
> On Wednesday 22 July 2009 04:07:56 pm Steve V wrote:
> > Now that I have a HD frontend working with VDPAU I'm looking at building a
> > new frontend using a Zotac Ion board.
> >
> > It seems that there are at least 4 options for a boot device:
> >
> > Network booting - but this seems too complicated for my simple mind
> >
> > Using a standard hard drive
> >
> > Using a laptop drive and appropriate adapter.
> >
> > Using a CF card and appropriate adapter
> >
> > I would like to minimise power and noise, so I lean toward the CF card,
> > however, I read that you can wear out the flash with too many writes, so
> > this may not be the best long term solution.
> >
> > I'd appreciate any thoughts / opinions on the subject.
> >
> >
> >
> I have two of these now and I network boot them. It was really very easy to
> set up using the MythControlCenter in mythbuntu! The only problem I have
> with it is that after it boots, the first time you enter something like LiveTV
> or Media Library, it is *really* slow. Do it again and it's fast. Just kind of
> annoying for the wife & kids.
>
> Benefits are that updates are really easy to do. Just "sudo chroot" to the
> directory with the image and do an update. Then use ltsp-update-image
> and ltsp-update-kernels, and reboot the frontends!
>
> You also get a NFS mount for each front end so it can have it's own config
> files. Nice if you have different remotes etc.
>
> I tried setting up a front end with minimyth on a USB stick as well but havn't
> really persevered with it. I was wanting to see if this would help with the
> slow down mentioned above.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Paul
>

Definitely does help, I might give this a go as I am using Mythbuntu.

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g8ecj at gilks

Jul 22, 2009, 3:45 AM

Post #9 of 14 (4130 views)
Permalink

Re: Zotac ION ATOM boot device recommendation / opinions [In reply to]

>
> Now that I have a HD frontend working with VDPAU I'm looking at building a
> new frontend using a Zotac Ion board.
>
> It seems that there are at least 4 options for a boot device:
>
> Network booting - but this seems too complicated for my simple mind
>
> Using a standard hard drive
>
> Using a laptop drive and appropriate adapter.
>
> Using a CF card and appropriate adapter
>
> I would like to minimise power and noise, so I lean toward the CF card,
> however, I read that you can wear out the flash with too many writes, so
> this may not be the best long term solution.
>
> I'd appreciate any thoughts / opinions on the subject.

I've always run my frontend diskless and when I get an HD frontend I'll do
the same with that. I net boot using pxegrub so the setup is pretty much
the same as using normal grub.

I run enough RAM that I don't have to worry about swap space and the
server has more than enough space for log files and other stuff being
generated by the frontend.

I have a directory on the server called /diskless which is exported in the
/etc/exports file with the line
=========================================
/diskless media(rw,sync,no_root_squash,no_subtree_check)
=========================================

and the /diskless/boot directory contains the kernel, pxegrub executable
and grub.conf which contains:

=========================================
default 0
timeout 2
tftpserver 192.168.1.10

title=MythTV
kernel (nd)/linux-2.6.25-gentoo-r7 ip=dhcp root=/dev/nfs
nfsroot=192.168.1.10:/diskless
=========================================

I run dnsmasq on the server to give the frontend its IP address and to
make sure it knows where to boot from. These are the options I use in the
dnsmasq.conf file:

=========================================
# Add local-only domains here, queries in these domains are answered
# from /etc/hosts or DHCP only.
local=/localdomain/
# Override the default route supplied by dnsmasq, which assumes the
# router is the same machine as the one running dnsmasq. Point
# directly at the adsl router instead
dhcp-option=3,192.168.1.100

# Send the Encapsulated-vendor-class ID needed by some configurations of
# Etherboot to allow is to recognise the DHCP server.
dhcp-option=vendor:Etherboot,60,"Etherboot"

# Set the boot filename for BOOTP. This gets the network version of grub
# pxegrub) sent to the frontend after it gets its IP address
dhcp-boot=net:media,pxegrub
# a very badly documented option that tells pxegrub what its config file is
dhcp-option-force=150,/grub.conf

# Enable dnsmasq's built-in TFTP server
enable-tftp

# Set the root directory for files available via FTP.
tftp-root=/diskless/boot

# Always give the host with ethernet address 00:40:63:de:5b:53
# the name media and IP address 192.168.1.33 and infinite lease time
dhcp-host=00:40:63:de:5b:53,media,192.168.1.33,infinite,net:media
=========================================

My /etc/hosts file on the server has an entry for the frontend (called
media - very original!!)

=========================================
192.168.1.33 media.localdomain media
=========================================

Thats pretty much it - the /diskless directory is the complete frontend
filesystem - if I make a major change I usually make a copy of it to
/diskless.backup and if the new stuff doesn't work I can either rename the
backup or export the backup and change the dnsmasq config to point to
/diskless.backup/boot and it all works - great for good WAF.

--
Robin Gilks

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olivuts at yahoo

Jul 22, 2009, 2:04 PM

Post #10 of 14 (4114 views)
Permalink

Re: Zotac ION ATOM boot device recommendation / opinions [In reply to]

----- Original Message ----
> From: Robin Gilks <g8ecj [at] gilks>
> To: MythTV in NZ <mythtvnz [at] lists>
> Sent: Wednesday, 22 July, 2009 10:45:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [mythtvnz] Zotac ION ATOM boot device recommendation / opinions
>
>
> >
> > Now that I have a HD frontend working with VDPAU I'm looking at building a
> > new frontend using a Zotac Ion board.
> >
> > It seems that there are at least 4 options for a boot device:
> >
> > Network booting - but this seems too complicated for my simple mind
> >
> > Using a standard hard drive
> >
> > Using a laptop drive and appropriate adapter.
> >
> > Using a CF card and appropriate adapter
> >
> > I would like to minimise power and noise, so I lean toward the CF card,
> > however, I read that you can wear out the flash with too many writes, so
> > this may not be the best long term solution.
> >
> > I'd appreciate any thoughts / opinions on the subject.
>
> I've always run my frontend diskless and when I get an HD frontend I'll do
> the same with that. I net boot using pxegrub so the setup is pretty much
> the same as using normal grub.
>
> I run enough RAM that I don't have to worry about swap space and the
> server has more than enough space for log files and other stuff being
> generated by the frontend.
>
> I have a directory on the server called /diskless which is exported in the
> /etc/exports file with the line
> =========================================
> /diskless media(rw,sync,no_root_squash,no_subtree_check)
> =========================================
>
> and the /diskless/boot directory contains the kernel, pxegrub executable
> and grub.conf which contains:
>
> =========================================
> default 0
> timeout 2
> tftpserver 192.168.1.10
>
> title=MythTV
> kernel (nd)/linux-2.6.25-gentoo-r7 ip=dhcp root=/dev/nfs
> nfsroot=192.168.1.10:/diskless
> =========================================
>
> I run dnsmasq on the server to give the frontend its IP address and to
> make sure it knows where to boot from. These are the options I use in the
> dnsmasq.conf file:
>
> =========================================
> # Add local-only domains here, queries in these domains are answered
> # from /etc/hosts or DHCP only.
> local=/localdomain/
> # Override the default route supplied by dnsmasq, which assumes the
> # router is the same machine as the one running dnsmasq. Point
> # directly at the adsl router instead
> dhcp-option=3,192.168.1.100
>
> # Send the Encapsulated-vendor-class ID needed by some configurations of
> # Etherboot to allow is to recognise the DHCP server.
> dhcp-option=vendor:Etherboot,60,"Etherboot"
>
> # Set the boot filename for BOOTP. This gets the network version of grub
> # pxegrub) sent to the frontend after it gets its IP address
> dhcp-boot=net:media,pxegrub
> # a very badly documented option that tells pxegrub what its config file is
> dhcp-option-force=150,/grub.conf
>
> # Enable dnsmasq's built-in TFTP server
> enable-tftp
>
> # Set the root directory for files available via FTP.
> tftp-root=/diskless/boot
>
> # Always give the host with ethernet address 00:40:63:de:5b:53
> # the name media and IP address 192.168.1.33 and infinite lease time
> dhcp-host=00:40:63:de:5b:53,media,192.168.1.33,infinite,net:media
> =========================================
>
> My /etc/hosts file on the server has an entry for the frontend (called
> media - very original!!)
>
> =========================================
> 192.168.1.33 media.localdomain media
> =========================================
>
>
> Thats pretty much it - the /diskless directory is the complete frontend
> filesystem - if I make a major change I usually make a copy of it to
> /diskless.backup and if the new stuff doesn't work I can either rename the
> backup or export the backup and change the dnsmasq config to point to
> /diskless.backup/boot and it all works - great for good WAF.
>
>
>
> --
> Robin Gilks
>
>
Thanks that's great info. I am planning to try diskless first. Bit of a learning curve for me but that's OK - I need a new project :-)

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mark.dereeper at gmail

Jul 22, 2009, 5:22 PM

Post #11 of 14 (4095 views)
Permalink

Re: Zotac ION ATOM boot device recommendation / opinions [In reply to]

Just wondering where you got the NFS root aware kernel, did you build it
yourself (looks like a gentoo based one from the name in your config)?

Thanks

Mark

On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 10:45 PM, Robin Gilks <g8ecj [at] gilks> wrote:

>
> >
> > Now that I have a HD frontend working with VDPAU I'm looking at building
> a
> > new frontend using a Zotac Ion board.
> >
> > It seems that there are at least 4 options for a boot device:
> >
> > Network booting - but this seems too complicated for my simple mind
> >
> > Using a standard hard drive
> >
> > Using a laptop drive and appropriate adapter.
> >
> > Using a CF card and appropriate adapter
> >
> > I would like to minimise power and noise, so I lean toward the CF card,
> > however, I read that you can wear out the flash with too many writes, so
> > this may not be the best long term solution.
> >
> > I'd appreciate any thoughts / opinions on the subject.
>
> I've always run my frontend diskless and when I get an HD frontend I'll do
> the same with that. I net boot using pxegrub so the setup is pretty much
> the same as using normal grub.
>
> I run enough RAM that I don't have to worry about swap space and the
> server has more than enough space for log files and other stuff being
> generated by the frontend.
>
> I have a directory on the server called /diskless which is exported in the
> /etc/exports file with the line
> =========================================
> /diskless media(rw,sync,no_root_squash,no_subtree_check)
> =========================================
>
> and the /diskless/boot directory contains the kernel, pxegrub executable
> and grub.conf which contains:
>
> =========================================
> default 0
> timeout 2
> tftpserver 192.168.1.10
>
> title=MythTV
> kernel (nd)/linux-2.6.25-gentoo-r7 ip=dhcp root=/dev/nfs
> nfsroot=192.168.1.10:/diskless
> =========================================
>
> I run dnsmasq on the server to give the frontend its IP address and to
> make sure it knows where to boot from. These are the options I use in the
> dnsmasq.conf file:
>
> =========================================
> # Add local-only domains here, queries in these domains are answered
> # from /etc/hosts or DHCP only.
> local=/localdomain/
> # Override the default route supplied by dnsmasq, which assumes the
> # router is the same machine as the one running dnsmasq. Point
> # directly at the adsl router instead
> dhcp-option=3,192.168.1.100
>
> # Send the Encapsulated-vendor-class ID needed by some configurations of
> # Etherboot to allow is to recognise the DHCP server.
> dhcp-option=vendor:Etherboot,60,"Etherboot"
>
> # Set the boot filename for BOOTP. This gets the network version of grub
> # pxegrub) sent to the frontend after it gets its IP address
> dhcp-boot=net:media,pxegrub
> # a very badly documented option that tells pxegrub what its config file is
> dhcp-option-force=150,/grub.conf
>
> # Enable dnsmasq's built-in TFTP server
> enable-tftp
>
> # Set the root directory for files available via FTP.
> tftp-root=/diskless/boot
>
> # Always give the host with ethernet address 00:40:63:de:5b:53
> # the name media and IP address 192.168.1.33 and infinite lease time
> dhcp-host=00:40:63:de:5b:53,media,192.168.1.33,infinite,net:media
> =========================================
>
> My /etc/hosts file on the server has an entry for the frontend (called
> media - very original!!)
>
> =========================================
> 192.168.1.33 media.localdomain media
> =========================================
>
>
> Thats pretty much it - the /diskless directory is the complete frontend
> filesystem - if I make a major change I usually make a copy of it to
> /diskless.backup and if the new stuff doesn't work I can either rename the
> backup or export the backup and change the dnsmasq config to point to
> /diskless.backup/boot and it all works - great for good WAF.
>
>
>
> --
> Robin Gilks
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz [at] lists
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>

g8ecj at gilks

Jul 22, 2009, 5:33 PM

Post #12 of 14 (4099 views)
Permalink

Re: Zotac ION ATOM boot device recommendation / opinions [In reply to]

> Just wondering where you got the NFS root aware kernel, did you build it
> yourself (looks like a gentoo based one from the name in your config)?

I always build my own - old habits etc from the days when there wasn't
really much choice!! (circa 1997).

I take it that the normal packaged systems like Ubuntu don't have nfs
support built in?

--
Robin Gilks

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mark.dereeper at gmail

Jul 22, 2009, 5:44 PM

Post #13 of 14 (4089 views)
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Re: Zotac ION ATOM boot device recommendation / opinions [In reply to]

I haven't had to build a kernel for a while but used to do it for this
reason, net booting. I haven't checked recent distro's to see if this is a
default item on their kernels, don't have one to hand to try.

On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Robin Gilks <g8ecj [at] gilks> wrote:

>
> > Just wondering where you got the NFS root aware kernel, did you build it
> > yourself (looks like a gentoo based one from the name in your config)?
>
> I always build my own - old habits etc from the days when there wasn't
> really much choice!! (circa 1997).
>
> I take it that the normal packaged systems like Ubuntu don't have nfs
> support built in?
>
>
> --
> Robin Gilks
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> mythtvnz [at] lists
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barryc at bcsystems

Jul 22, 2009, 5:50 PM

Post #14 of 14 (4096 views)
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Re: Zotac ION ATOM boot device recommendation / opinions [In reply to]

AFAIK Ubuntu still supports NFS which ive used in my myth media box for
quite a while. I'm not clear on the kernel vs userspace issues but I know it
runs. I have just done a Backend install with mythbuntu 9.04 and some
things are broken in the Mythbuntu Control Centre (MCC) especially for the
Diskless Server. Here's what I've found.
I used MCC to setup diskless server and it does the ltsp stuff and gets that
going with minimal fuss, there is then the customising and everything to get
it to do all you want. When I began to use the Frontend MCC (which crashed
each time I exited it) I ran into trouble, and ended up trying the shell
based stuff untill more frustration put me off it. The how to is covered in
a pdf you can download from the mythbuntu site.
In the end, i went and installed mythbuntu by hand onto a USB stick which
works fairly well so far. I'll go back to the squashfs/ltsp version a bit
later when I have time as it seems a really nice idea. I'm hoping not to get
too many issues with it.
I'm about to do the VDPAU stuff on the stick based frontend and will report
on my progress.
Barry

2009/7/23 Mark de Reeper <mark.dereeper [at] gmail>

> I haven't had to build a kernel for a while but used to do it for this
> reason, net booting. I haven't checked recent distro's to see if this is a
> default item on their kernels, don't have one to hand to try.
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Robin Gilks <g8ecj [at] gilks> wrote:
>
>>
>> > Just wondering where you got the NFS root aware kernel, did you build it
>> > yourself (looks like a gentoo based one from the name in your config)?
>>
>> I always build my own - old habits etc from the days when there wasn't
>> really much choice!! (circa 1997).
>>
>> I take it that the normal packaged systems like Ubuntu don't have nfs
>> support built in?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Robin Gilks
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtvnz mailing list
>> mythtvnz [at] lists
>> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
>> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtvnz mailing list
> mythtvnz [at] lists
> http://lists.ourshack.com/mailman/listinfo/mythtvnz
> Archives http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/mythtvnz/
>
>

--

Barry Clearwater
Managing director
BC Systems Consultancy Limited
___________________________
18 Shaw Street
Mosgiel
Dunedin 9024
Phone: +64 3 489 3915
Mobile: +64 27 221 9338
Email: barryc [at] bcsystems

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