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atoms and ions

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criggie at criggie

Jun 18, 2009, 5:26 PM

Post #1 of 17 (2707 views)
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atoms and ions

I see hads has managed to import some ion-based atom-powered boards.

https://nicegear.co.nz/zotac/

Only need a molex power connection too. No idea about cases but could
probably fit this inside a shoe box.

And its passively cooled too.

--
Criggie

http://criggie.dyndns.org/

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olivuts at yahoo

Jun 18, 2009, 6:15 PM

Post #2 of 17 (2634 views)
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Re: atoms and ions [In reply to]

> I see hads has managed to import some ion-based atom-powered boards.
>
> https://nicegear.co.nz/zotac/
>
> Only need a molex power connection too. No idea about cases but could
> probably fit this inside a shoe box.
>
> And its passively cooled too.
>
>
>
> --
> Criggie
>
> http://criggie.dyndns.org/

But is it of any use to us in NZ yet? At this popint my understanding is that Myth's VDPAU does not work well with our 720p channels. I am hoping that this problem will be resolved soon.

Has anyone achieved very good decoding using VDPAU for TV One and TV2?

For me TV3 is great with VDPAU, but the 720p channels require VDPAU off and the decoding done by the CPU. I expect event the dual atom could not decode our 720p on the CPU.

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stevehodge at gmail

Jun 18, 2009, 6:38 PM

Post #3 of 17 (2635 views)
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Re: atoms and ions [In reply to]

On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Steve V <olivuts [at] yahoo> wrote:

>
> > I see hads has managed to import some ion-based atom-powered boards.
> >
> > https://nicegear.co.nz/zotac/
> >
> > Only need a molex power connection too. No idea about cases but could
> > probably fit this inside a shoe box.
> >
> > And its passively cooled too.
> >
>
> But is it of any use to us in NZ yet? At this popint my understanding is
> that Myth's VDPAU does not work well with our 720p channels. I am
> hoping that this problem will be resolved soon.
>
> Has anyone achieved very good decoding using VDPAU for TV One and TV2?
>
> For me TV3 is great with VDPAU, but the 720p channels require VDPAU off and
> the decoding done by the CPU. I expect event the dual atom could not decode
> our 720p on the CPU.

Not everyone is using HD.

Cheers,
Steve

olivuts at yahoo

Jun 18, 2009, 6:58 PM

Post #4 of 17 (2626 views)
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Re: atoms and ions [In reply to]

>Not everyone is using HD.

>Cheers,
>Steve

Fair nuff.

I guess if I wasn't using HD I would be looking for something at a lower price point. Unless I was looking to futureproof my purchase, but right now that would be risky in case the myth VDPAU for NZ was not sorted.

Don't get me wrong if the Zotac would work for me right now I would be placing my order rather than typing this email. I am looking forward to the day that HD in NZ is more accessible than it currently is.

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g8ecj at gilks

Jun 18, 2009, 7:13 PM

Post #5 of 17 (2632 views)
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Re: atoms and ions [In reply to]

> I see hads has managed to import some ion-based atom-powered boards.
>
> https://nicegear.co.nz/zotac/
>
> Only need a molex power connection too. No idea about cases but could
> probably fit this inside a shoe box.
>
> And its passively cooled too.
>

I wonder if a Minibox - PW-200-M PSU powered from an external 12v brick
http://www.itx.co.nz/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=231
will power it correctly. I'm using one on my Via Epia SP13000 OK.

Or maybe there is a PSU that takes a standard (hence cheap) laptop 19volt
brick that will substitute for the onboard Zotac version.

--
Robin Gilks

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nick.rout at gmail

Jun 18, 2009, 7:25 PM

Post #6 of 17 (2625 views)
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Re: atoms and ions [In reply to]

On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 2:13 PM, Robin Gilks<g8ecj [at] gilks> wrote:
>
>> I see hads has managed to import some ion-based atom-powered boards.
>>
>> https://nicegear.co.nz/zotac/
>>
>> Only need a molex power connection too. No idea about cases but could
>> probably fit this inside a shoe box.
>>
>> And its passively cooled too.
>>
>
> I wonder if a Minibox - PW-200-M PSU powered from an external 12v brick
> http://www.itx.co.nz/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=231
> will power it correctly. I'm using one on my Via Epia SP13000 OK.
>
> Or maybe there is a PSU that takes a standard (hence cheap) laptop 19volt
> brick that will substitute for the onboard Zotac version.
>
>

the zotac comes in 2 cpu versions and two power versions, giving 4
total versions (althouth nicegear seem to only have 2, the B and the
D:

Model Power CPU
=================
A Brick Atom 330
B ATX Atom 230
C Brick Atom 230
D ATX Atom 330

The 330's are dual core, 230's single.

The 330 models also have a wifi card.

The 230's will run fanless, the 330's have a fan recommended, but
people have run them fanless.

The power brick models run from an external supplied power brick, like a laptop.

There is a very thorough review (although not linux oriented) here:

http://hothardware.com/Articles/Zotac-NVIDIA-Ion-Motherboard/?page=10
(I point to the page with the model summary on it).

There are pointers to other reviews here:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/13/zotac-ion-based-ionitx-a-sff-motherboard-review-roundup/

They are also discussed at length on the mythtv-user mailing list.
They look like a good thing to use. VDPAU will improve your SD
viewing.

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mythtv at objectivity

Jun 18, 2009, 7:28 PM

Post #7 of 17 (2626 views)
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Re: atoms and ions [In reply to]

I see the Atom 230 requires the normal pc power connector, but it is a
little vague on the Atom 330 board. using a power-brick would be nice...

Criggie wrote:
> I see hads has managed to import some ion-based atom-powered boards.
>
> https://nicegear.co.nz/zotac/
>
> Only need a molex power connection too. No idea about cases but could
> probably fit this inside a shoe box.
>
> And its passively cooled too.
>
>
>
>

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hads at nice

Jun 18, 2009, 7:28 PM

Post #8 of 17 (2633 views)
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Re: atoms and ions [In reply to]

I hope it's not too commercial to post in this thread but I'd like to
answer questions if possible. Please do let me know if anyone isn't
happy with this.

On Fri, 2009-06-19 at 14:13 +1200, Robin Gilks wrote:
> I wonder if a Minibox - PW-200-M PSU powered from an external 12v
> brick
> http://www.itx.co.nz/product_info.php?cPath=25&products_id=231
> will power it correctly. I'm using one on my Via Epia SP13000 OK.
>
> Or maybe there is a PSU that takes a standard (hence cheap) laptop
> 19volt
> brick that will substitute for the onboard Zotac version.

That PSU Should be fine. The boards themselves are 20-25W.

There are a couple of other Zotac boards which come with an onboard
DC-DC converter and 19V/90W power brick. We can bring these in if
there's interest but I figured that since most cases come with a PSU
that these models would be useful to start with. We also need to source
NZ/AU plugs for the power bricks which makes them more tricky.

We should have a good little case with PSU to go with them real soon.

hads
--
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier

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hads at nice

Jun 18, 2009, 7:51 PM

Post #9 of 17 (2635 views)
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Re: atoms and ions [In reply to]

On Fri, 2009-06-19 at 14:25 +1200, Nick Rout wrote:
> the zotac comes in 2 cpu versions and two power versions, giving 4
> total versions (althouth nicegear seem to only have 2, the B and the

That's correct. There's a table down the bottom of the datasheet[1]
which reflects what Nick said. Both the versions we have listed now are
the ATX power versions (some of the pictures may have the incorrect
options).

Unfortunately they don't offer a power brick version with an AU/NZ power
plug. I'm talking with them currently to see what they can do.

Partnering them with a case which comes with a PSU and power brick
should work out about the same.

[1]https://nicegear.co.nz/obj/pdf/zotac-ion-itx-v3.pdf
--
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier

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nick.rout at gmail

Jun 18, 2009, 8:22 PM

Post #10 of 17 (2626 views)
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Re: atoms and ions [In reply to]

On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Hadley Rich <hads [at] nice> wrote:

> On Fri, 2009-06-19 at 14:25 +1200, Nick Rout wrote:
> > the zotac comes in 2 cpu versions and two power versions, giving 4
> > total versions (althouth nicegear seem to only have 2, the B and the
>
> That's correct. There's a table down the bottom of the datasheet[1]
> which reflects what Nick said. Both the versions we have listed now are
> the ATX power versions (some of the pictures may have the incorrect
> options).
>
> Unfortunately they don't offer a power brick version with an AU/NZ power
> plug. I'm talking with them currently to see what they can do.
>

From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_plugs :

"CPCS-CCC (Chinese 10 A/250 V)

Although the pins on the Chinese plug are 1 mm (0.039 in) longer, the
Australian/NZ plug can be used with mainland
Chinese<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Republic_of_China>socket.
The standard for Chinese plugs and sockets is set out in
GB 2099.1–1996 and GB 1002–1996. As part of China's commitment for entry
into the WTO <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Organisation>, the
new CPCS (Compulsory Product Certification System) has been introduced, and
compliant Chinese plugs have been awarded the
CCC<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCC>(China Compulsory Certification)
Mark by this system. The plug is three
wire, earthed, rated at 10 A, 250 V and used for Class 1 applications.

In China, the sockets are installed upside-down relative to the
Australian/NZ one.

China also uses American/Japanese "Type A" sockets and plugs for Class-II
appliances. However, the voltage across the pins of a Chinese socket will
always be 220, no matter what the plug type."

Maybe the chinese plug version is the one to get, if its the one that looks
like a NZ plug?

stevehodge at gmail

Jun 18, 2009, 8:52 PM

Post #11 of 17 (2621 views)
Permalink

Re: atoms and ions [In reply to]

On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Nick Rout <nick.rout [at] gmail> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 2:51 PM, Hadley Rich <hads [at] nice> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 2009-06-19 at 14:25 +1200, Nick Rout wrote:
>> > the zotac comes in 2 cpu versions and two power versions, giving 4
>> > total versions (althouth nicegear seem to only have 2, the B and the
>>
>> That's correct. There's a table down the bottom of the datasheet[1]
>> which reflects what Nick said. Both the versions we have listed now are
>> the ATX power versions (some of the pictures may have the incorrect
>> options).
>>
>> Unfortunately they don't offer a power brick version with an AU/NZ power
>> plug. I'm talking with them currently to see what they can do.
>>
>
>
> From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_plugs :
>
> "CPCS-CCC (Chinese 10 A/250 V)
>
> Although the pins on the Chinese plug are 1 mm (0.039 in) longer, the
> Australian/NZ plug can be used with mainland Chinese<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Republic_of_China>socket. The standard for Chinese plugs and sockets is set out in
> GB 2099.1–1996 and GB 1002–1996. As part of China's commitment for entry
> into the WTO <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Organisation>, the
> new CPCS (Compulsory Product Certification System) has been introduced, and
> compliant Chinese plugs have been awarded the CCC<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCC>(China Compulsory Certification) Mark by this system. The plug is three
> wire, earthed, rated at 10 A, 250 V and used for Class 1 applications.
>
> In China, the sockets are installed upside-down relative to the
> Australian/NZ one.
>
> China also uses American/Japanese "Type A" sockets and plugs for Class-II
> appliances. However, the voltage across the pins of a Chinese socket will
> always be 220, no matter what the plug type."
>
> Are there likely to be legal issues with selling it with the Chinese plug,
given that they're not 100% identical?

Cheers,
Steve

mythtv at objectivity

Jun 19, 2009, 12:05 AM

Post #12 of 17 (2628 views)
Permalink

Re: atoms and ions [In reply to]

From the photo on the Zotac web site they use a stock standard plug on
the power cable (Acer and HP use the same power cord). I think I have
seen these at PB Tech (http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=ITPCAP404)

Hadley Rich wrote:
>
> We also need to source NZ/AU plugs for the power bricks which makes them more tricky.
>
> We should have a good little case with PSU to go with them real soon.
>
> hads
>

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hads at nice

Jun 19, 2009, 1:51 AM

Post #13 of 17 (2625 views)
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Re: atoms and ions [In reply to]

On Fri, 2009-06-19 at 19:05 +1200, Karl Leaning wrote:
> From the photo on the Zotac web site they use a stock standard plug
> on
> the power cable (Acer and HP use the same power cord). I think I have
> seen these at PB Tech
> (http://www.pbtech.co.nz/index.php?item=ITPCAP404)

Thanks, something to keep in mind, we're trying to work with Zotac to
see what they can do from their end.

hads
--
http://nicegear.co.nz
New Zealand's Open Source Hardware Supplier

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blmiller at slingshot

Jun 19, 2009, 3:16 AM

Post #14 of 17 (2599 views)
Permalink

Re: atoms and ions [In reply to]

>> I see hads has managed to import some ion-based atom-powered boards.
>>
>> https://nicegear.co.nz/zotac/
>>
>> Only need a molex power connection too. No idea about cases but could
>> probably fit this inside a shoe box.
>>
>> And its passively cooled too.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Criggie
>>
> >http://criggie.dyndns.org/
>
>But is it of any use to us in NZ yet? At this popint my understanding is
>that Myth's VDPAU does not work well with our 720p >channels. I am hoping
>that this problem will be resolved soon.>
>
>Has anyone achieved very good decoding using VDPAU for TV One and TV2?
>
>For me TV3 is great with VDPAU, but the 720p channels require VDPAU off and
>the decoding done by the CPU. I expect >event the dual atom could not
>decode our 720p on the CPU.
>
>

Steve

Never had any problems with 720p playback with VDPAU.
Using 1x hardware deinterlace setting but upscaling to 1080i60 to screen so
pointless ??
Worked okay from the first offering (3 months ago).
Almost perfect video on all channel recordings but not live. (nvidia-180.60
& mythtv fixes repos)
TV1 video playback is very very good.
Better than any LCD display except for the latest maybe..

Last night recorded TV 1, 2 & 3 from 9 to 9:30.
15 seconds later could watch any of the 3 recordings no problem except audio
is junked.

LiveTV does not work (for me) since the nvidia 185.xx versions of JYA repos.
Audio is broken except for AC3 (s/pdif output) and that is not perfect.
Previous 180.44 build from JYA was very good.

The audio playback was perfect couple months ago.
Could be ubuntu updates that broke this operation, it broke the LCDProc
again.

Three steps forward, two & half steps back...

Regards,
Brett

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nick.rout at gmail

Jun 19, 2009, 3:21 PM

Post #15 of 17 (2569 views)
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Re: atoms and ions [In reply to]

On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 10:16 PM, Brett Miller<blmiller [at] slingshot> wrote:
>
>>> I see hads has managed to import some ion-based atom-powered boards.
>>>
>>> https://nicegear.co.nz/zotac/
>>>
>>> Only need a molex power connection too. No idea about cases but could
>>> probably fit this inside a shoe box.
>>>
>>> And its passively cooled too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Criggie
>>>
>> >http://criggie.dyndns.org/
>>
>>But is it of any use to us in NZ yet? At this popint my understanding is
>>that Myth's VDPAU does not work well with our 720p >channels. I am hoping
>>that this problem will be resolved soon.>
>>
>>Has anyone achieved very good decoding using VDPAU for TV One and TV2?
>>
>>For me TV3 is great with VDPAU, but the 720p channels require VDPAU off and
>>the decoding done by the CPU. I expect >event the dual atom could not
>>decode our 720p on the CPU.
>>
>>
>
> Steve
>
> Never had any problems with 720p playback with VDPAU.
> Using 1x hardware deinterlace setting but upscaling to 1080i60 to screen so
> pointless ??
> Worked okay from the first offering (3 months ago).
> Almost perfect video on all channel recordings but not live. (nvidia-180.60
> & mythtv fixes repos)
> TV1 video playback is very very good.
> Better than any LCD display except for the latest maybe..
>
> Last night recorded TV 1, 2 & 3 from 9 to 9:30.
> 15 seconds later could watch any of the 3 recordings no problem except audio
> is junked.
>
> LiveTV does not work (for me) since the nvidia 185.xx versions of JYA repos.
> Audio is broken except for AC3 (s/pdif output) and that is not perfect.
> Previous 180.44 build from JYA was very good.
>
> The audio playback was perfect couple months ago.
> Could be ubuntu updates that broke this operation, it broke the LCDProc
> again.
>
> Three steps forward, two & half steps back...
>
> Regards,
> Brett

JYA recommends dongrading to 180.

http://www.avenard.org/media/Ubuntu_Repository/Entries/2009/6/10_How_to_downgrade_to_nVidia_drivers_180.xx.html

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olivuts at yahoo

Jun 19, 2009, 9:44 PM

Post #16 of 17 (2557 views)
Permalink

Re: atoms and ions [In reply to]

> >
> >But is it of any use to us in NZ yet? At this popint my understanding is
> >that Myth's VDPAU does not work well with our 720p >channels. I am hoping
> >that this problem will be resolved soon.>
> >
> >Has anyone achieved very good decoding using VDPAU for TV One and TV2?
> >
> >For me TV3 is great with VDPAU, but the 720p channels require VDPAU off and
> >the decoding done by the CPU. I expect >event the dual atom could not
> >decode our 720p on the CPU.
> >
> >
>
> Steve
>
> Never had any problems with 720p playback with VDPAU.
> Using 1x hardware deinterlace setting but upscaling to 1080i60 to screen so
> pointless ??
> Worked okay from the first offering (3 months ago).
> Almost perfect video on all channel recordings but not live. (nvidia-180.60
> & mythtv fixes repos)
> TV1 video playback is very very good.
> Better than any LCD display except for the latest maybe..
>
> Last night recorded TV 1, 2 & 3 from 9 to 9:30.
> 15 seconds later could watch any of the 3 recordings no problem except audio
> is junked.
>
> LiveTV does not work (for me) since the nvidia 185.xx versions of JYA repos.
> Audio is broken except for AC3 (s/pdif output) and that is not perfect.
> Previous 180.44 build from JYA was very good.
>
> The audio playback was perfect couple months ago.
> Could be ubuntu updates that broke this operation, it broke the LCDProc
> again.
>
> Three steps forward, two & half steps back...
>
> Regards,
> Brett

Just in case I was imagining things, I rechecked and sure enough TV1 and TV2 are not good on Myth with VDPAU. A show which for me is a great example is Spooks 9:30 Mondays on One. It always has many portions where the motion breaks down or pixelates while the scene is panning.

I can play the same recording using mplayer with VDPAU or XBMC with VDPAU and I do not get the same breakup and pixelation.

Some things that may be different between our systems -
reception, I only just get Freeview|HD approx 60% signal reported. Perhaps if the signal is better you get a better recording and then there is no problem with playback - just theory.

What DVB-T card are you using, I am using the NOVA-T 500.

I have no problem with Live TV - well same applies to LiveTV it works fine as long as I do not use VDPAU for TV1 and TV2.

I have no problems with sound, I get good sound for all the HD channels.

I'll have to check what versions of Ubuntu, Myth and Nvidia I am running. But my versions are probably 1 or 2 months old. I try not to updat unless I really have to because enivitably an update causes many hours of work to get everything working again.

This weekend I am setting up XBMC (have to install from source to get LATM-AAC sound support) and Mythbox to see if that is a workaround until VDPAU is sorted out for my situation.

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stephen_agent at jsw

Jun 20, 2009, 1:15 AM

Post #17 of 17 (2545 views)
Permalink

Re: atoms and ions [In reply to]

On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 21:44:12 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>Just in case I was imagining things, I rechecked and sure enough TV1 and TV2 are not good on Myth with VDPAU. A show which for me is a great example is Spooks 9:30 Mondays on One. It always has many portions where the motion breaks down or pixelates while the scene is panning.
>
>I can play the same recording using mplayer with VDPAU or XBMC with VDPAU and I do not get the same breakup and pixelation.

I get exactly the same problem with using my Myth box to play back
recordings made using MediaPortal on my laptop and my desktop box
(both Vista). Mplayer can play the TV1 and TV2 files without video
corruption, but the audio is way out of sync (several seconds).
Mythfrontend always pixilates when there is too much movement on
screen, such as panning or close up of action. But the audio is in
sync.

TV3 is great - Mythfrontend plays it back better than under Windows,
where I have always had a slight judder problem playing back on my TV.
I have an Asus 8400 GS Silent card in my Myth box, and due to my TV's
limitations, I am playing back at 1920x1080 interlaced, which the TV
then scales to its real screen size of 1366x768. I am using Temporal
1x deinterlace, as anything better than that causes problems (and the
8400 GS probably can not do the Advanced modes properly anyway).

>Some things that may be different between our systems -
>reception, I only just get Freeview|HD approx 60% signal reported. Perhaps if the signal is better you get a better recording and then there is no problem with playback - just theory.

Not likely, as I have the exactly same problem with better signal
levels and three different DVB-T tuners. It looks as though it is a
problem with Mythfrontend's handling of VDPAU, which is good as fixing
it should not need a new version of the Nvidia drivers.

>What DVB-T card are you using, I am using the NOVA-T 500.
>
>I have no problem with Live TV - well same applies to LiveTV it works fine as long as I do not use VDPAU for TV1 and TV2.
>
>I have no problems with sound, I get good sound for all the HD channels.
>
>I'll have to check what versions of Ubuntu, Myth and Nvidia I am running. But my versions are probably 1 or 2 months old. I try not to updat unless I really have to because enivitably an update causes many hours of work to get everything working again.
>
>This weekend I am setting up XBMC (have to install from source to get LATM-AAC sound support) and Mythbox to see if that is a workaround until VDPAU is sorted out for my situation.

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