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[ANNOUNCE] MythUI Port

  

 
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stuart at tase

Mar 16, 2008, 3:12 AM

Post #1 of 11 (2008 views)
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[ANNOUNCE] MythUI Port
In the coming days and weeks more of MythTV will be converted to use MythUI,
the new UI library. This will break many themes and may temporarily break
some screens or plugins.

As Janne advised for the QT4 changes, it is not recommended that you run trunk
on production systems and that you switch to 0.21-fixes.

I'd also like to ask that you don't report broken themes, especially not those
which aren't in mythtv/themes or myththemes.
--
Stuart Morgan
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masterclc at gmail

Mar 16, 2008, 10:31 AM

Post #2 of 11 (1956 views)
Permalink
Re: [ANNOUNCE] MythUI Port [In reply to]
On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 4:12 AM, Stuart Morgan <stuart[at]tase.co.uk> wrote:
> In the coming days and weeks more of MythTV will be converted to use MythUI,
> the new UI library. This will break many themes and may temporarily break
> some screens or plugins.
>
> As Janne advised for the QT4 changes, it is not recommended that you run trunk
> on production systems and that you switch to 0.21-fixes.
>
> I'd also like to ask that you don't report broken themes, especially not those
> which aren't in mythtv/themes or myththemes.
> --
> Stuart Morgan
> _______________________________________________

This is all great news, I'm very happy to hear of these development
efforts. I'm curious though, will there be an announcement when
people should again begin testing trunk?

There are users, they indeed should stay stable (aka -fixes);
There are power users, they should stay stable, but eyeball and maybe
manually apply some patches from trunk from time to time;
There are testers, they should have a sort of development system or a
dual boot or a VM, or something similar so they can test and report
bugs
There are developers. I won't pretend to know what they do :D

So given the vague line between power users and testers, I'm just
wondering when the testers should again begin "testing" trunk?

Thanks!

-Chad
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erik at hovland

Mar 16, 2008, 1:26 PM

Post #3 of 11 (1955 views)
Permalink
Re: [ANNOUNCE] MythUI Port [In reply to]
On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 11:31:13AM -0600, Chad wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 4:12 AM, Stuart Morgan <stuart[at]tase.co.uk> wrote:
> > In the coming days and weeks more of MythTV will be converted to use MythUI,
> > the new UI library. This will break many themes and may temporarily break
> > some screens or plugins.
> >
> > As Janne advised for the QT4 changes, it is not recommended that you run trunk
> > on production systems and that you switch to 0.21-fixes.
> >
> > I'd also like to ask that you don't report broken themes, especially not those
> > which aren't in mythtv/themes or myththemes.
> > --
> > Stuart Morgan
> > _______________________________________________
>
> This is all great news, I'm very happy to hear of these development
> efforts. I'm curious though, will there be an announcement when
> people should again begin testing trunk?
>
> There are users, they indeed should stay stable (aka -fixes);
> There are power users, they should stay stable, but eyeball and maybe
> manually apply some patches from trunk from time to time;
> There are testers, they should have a sort of development system or a
> dual boot or a VM, or something similar so they can test and report
> bugs
> There are developers. I won't pretend to know what they do :D
>
> So given the vague line between power users and testers, I'm just
> wondering when the testers should again begin "testing" trunk?

I have been thinking about something similar to this since Janne's
announcement.

I know that the next release will be ready when it is ready. But what do
the principle developers foresee the next cycle will be like? For
example, will there be one or several 0.21.x releases before 0.22 comes
out? Or will the MythUI and Qt4 changes be the only big changes and a
0.22 release will come at a quicker pace?

I ask because I am only really concerned with defects. I will continue
to analyze for defects in trunk. But would it make more sense to target
release-0.21-fixes for most defects? It would if an 0.22 release is not
planned for several months to a few years.

Any light that can be shed on this plan would be most appreciated on my
part.

E

--
Erik Hovland
mail: erik[at]hovland.org
web: http://hovland.org/
PGP/GPG public key available on request

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stuart at tase

Mar 16, 2008, 2:35 PM

Post #4 of 11 (1948 views)
Permalink
Re: [ANNOUNCE] MythUI Port [In reply to]
On Sunday 16 March 2008 20:26:18 Erik Hovland wrote:
> I have been thinking about something similar to this since Janne's
> announcement.
>
> I know that the next release will be ready when it is ready. But what do
> the principle developers foresee the next cycle will be like? For
> example, will there be one or several 0.21.x releases before 0.22 comes
> out? Or will the MythUI and Qt4 changes be the only big changes and a
> 0.22 release will come at a quicker pace?

There hasn't been much discussion on the subject of 0.22. I don't think I'm
alone in wanting 0.22 to have a shorter cycle than 0.21.

I'm personally just focusing on MythUI in terms of major features for 0.22 and
hope that once it's complete we might be able to consider a release. How long
that takes I cannot say with any accuracy. I'm hoping that 0.22 will be no
more than six months away but that might be too optimistic.
--
Stuart Morgan
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danielk at cuymedia

Mar 16, 2008, 2:37 PM

Post #5 of 11 (1955 views)
Permalink
Re: [ANNOUNCE] MythUI Port [In reply to]
On Sun, 2008-03-16 at 13:26 -0700, Erik Hovland wrote:
> I know that the next release will be ready when it is ready. But what do
> the principle developers foresee the next cycle will be like? For
> example, will there be one or several 0.21.x releases before 0.22 comes
> out? Or will the MythUI and Qt4 changes be the only big changes and a
> 0.22 release will come at a quicker pace?
>
> I ask because I am only really concerned with defects. I will continue
> to analyze for defects in trunk. But would it make more sense to target
> release-0.21-fixes for most defects? It would if an 0.22 release is not
> planned for several months to a few years.
>
> Any light that can be shed on this plan would be most appreciated on my
> part.

It will be several months before a 0.22 release, but whether we do a
0.21.1 release really depends on the severity of any bugs found. We
will backport serious bugfixes to the 0.21 release branch, but we tend
to be gun shy with backporting fixes that haven't been sitting in the
trunk for at least a few weeks first. The packagers usually pick up
fixes in the current stable branch without much additional testing,
so if a piece of code goes into fixes it we need to be fairly sure
that it doesn't introduce any new bugs.

Anyway, I think you should target the trunk for bug fixes.

-- Daniel

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skd5aner at gmail

Mar 16, 2008, 3:48 PM

Post #6 of 11 (1959 views)
Permalink
Re: [ANNOUNCE] MythUI Port [In reply to]
On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 6:12 AM, Stuart Morgan <stuart[at]tase.co.uk> wrote:
>
> I'd also like to ask that you don't report broken themes, especially not those
> which aren't in mythtv/themes or myththemes.
> --
> Stuart Morgan


How about those in /themes? I know Justin is no longer officially
supporting them on his own, but are they going to be actively
maintained with the rest of the themes by the development community?

Thanks!
Matt
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mario.mailing at gmail

Mar 16, 2008, 5:25 PM

Post #7 of 11 (1952 views)
Permalink
Re: [ANNOUNCE] MythUI Port [In reply to]
Stuart Morgan wrote:
> On Sunday 16 March 2008 20:26:18 Erik Hovland wrote:
>
> There hasn't been much discussion on the subject of 0.22. I don't think I'm
> alone in wanting 0.22 to have a shorter cycle than 0.21.
>
> I'm personally just focusing on MythUI in terms of major features for 0.22 and
> hope that once it's complete we might be able to consider a release. How long
> that takes I cannot say with any accuracy. I'm hoping that 0.22 will be no
> more than six months away but that might be too optimistic.

Predictable releases are a very good thing, and timed properly can let the
adoption across major distros work out well. When the distros have an idea of
"when" to expect the new version, they can plan accordingly.

For the 0.21 release, I'd like to thank all the devs for sticking to the plan
here and getting the final build out the door in time for Hardy. It will make
Hardy's MythTV build a very solid release. If a plan can be put into place for
new releases every 6 months, it would really make our life easier at least
giving that we have a new Ubuntu release every 6 months :)

--
Mario Limonciello
mario.mailing[at]gmail.com
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justin_hornsby at hotmail

Mar 16, 2008, 7:02 PM

Post #8 of 11 (1946 views)
Permalink
Re: [ANNOUNCE] MythUI Port [In reply to]
> How about those in /themes? I know Justin is no longer officially
> supporting them on his own, but are they going to be actively
> maintained with the rest of the themes by the development community?
>
> Thanks!
> Matt

The work on mythui will probably make hitherto impossible themes a reality, thus rendering
older themes obsolete in terms of much more than just their appearance. Maybe (hopefully?)
new themes will help people 'forget' some of the older ones.

I can (and hope to) chip in to keep things ticking over if *absolutely* necessary but if anybody wants
to help out guidance can be provided.

Having thought a lot about how great the good parts of contribution are (not forgetting how awesome
it is that mythtv even exists and is so actively developed!) it's fair to say that I've not yet
made my last submission. If I stay away from my crayons then the ungrateful ****ers who broke
my poor fragile ego will have won. Easy for you to say 'just ignore them'.. easy for a lot of people...
not that easy for everybody though.

Justin.
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bill at bbqninja

Mar 17, 2008, 12:10 AM

Post #9 of 11 (1941 views)
Permalink
Re: [ANNOUNCE] MythUI Port [In reply to]
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 4:31 AM, Chad <masterclc[at]gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 4:12 AM, Stuart Morgan <stuart[at]tase.co.uk> wrote:
> > In the coming days and weeks more of MythTV will be converted to use MythUI,
> > the new UI library. This will break many themes and may temporarily break
> > some screens or plugins.
> >
> > As Janne advised for the QT4 changes, it is not recommended that you run trunk
> > on production systems and that you switch to 0.21-fixes.
> >
> > I'd also like to ask that you don't report broken themes, especially not those
> > which aren't in mythtv/themes or myththemes.
> > --
> > Stuart Morgan
> > _______________________________________________
>
> This is all great news, I'm very happy to hear of these development
> efforts. I'm curious though, will there be an announcement when
> people should again begin testing trunk?


This is my major/only gripe with mythtv.

When something doesn't work in -fixes, you're told to use SVN head.
When something doesn't work in SVN head, you're told to use -fixes.

It seems like this could be worked around by doing shorter
feature-related releases...

For example, .21 could have been released months ago with just the
UPnP fixes, backend fixes, and a lot of the general fixes.
.22 could have been just the multi-rec- merge.
.23 was the new video decoder (myth-vid branch)

and so on. It's how many other projects work, where "HEAD" isn't
really cvs-style head, it's just the most current INTEGRATED build,
and releases are made from it each time things are stable.
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myth at dermanouelian

Mar 17, 2008, 6:55 AM

Post #10 of 11 (1917 views)
Permalink
Re: [ANNOUNCE] MythUI Port [In reply to]
On Mar 17, 2008, at 12:10 AM, Bill Williamson wrote:

> This is my major/only gripe with mythtv.

You must not use it very much, then.
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Why_MythTV_Sucks

> When something doesn't work in -fixes, you're told to use SVN head.
> When something doesn't work in SVN head, you're told to use -fixes.

Things break sometimes. No one's perfect.

> It seems like this could be worked around by doing shorter
> feature-related releases...

You'd still have broken stuff that was released that would then be
fixed in SVN but include other broken stuff. No one's perfect.

> For example, .21 could have been released months ago with just the
> UPnP fixes, backend fixes, and a lot of the general fixes.

Then what would the developers who worked on multi-rec do? Sit there
and wait?

> .22 could have been just the multi-rec- merge.

While uPNP dev sits there and waits?

> .23 was the new video decoder (myth-vid branch)

I'm glad I have this now and not waited until the other stuff was
finished.

> and so on. It's how many other projects work, where "HEAD" isn't
> really cvs-style head, it's just the most current INTEGRATED build,
> and releases are made from it each time things are stable.

No one's perfect. Stability is never guaranteed. Dev tries to get it
as good as possible for a release. Sometimes things break.
If you want to wait until things stop breaking, I recommend MythTV
1.0. ;)

Sorry to post this to the dev list. This is really a -users comment
and I didn't realize it even came into dev until I went to his send.
Seeing as how it was posted to the dev list, you already know that
stuff breaks and the reasoning behind when stuff is put in, when it's
released, that there are bugs in -fixes which is why there's a -fixes
branch, etc. After all, you're on the list and have been following
along the dev cycle, I assume.

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stuarta at squashedfrog

Mar 25, 2008, 9:46 AM

Post #11 of 11 (1843 views)
Permalink
Re: [ANNOUNCE] MythUI Port [In reply to]
On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 06:48:26PM -0400, Matt S. wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 6:12 AM, Stuart Morgan <stuart[at]tase.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > I'd also like to ask that you don't report broken themes, especially not those
> > which aren't in mythtv/themes or myththemes.
> > --
> > Stuart Morgan
>
>
> How about those in /themes? I know Justin is no longer officially
> supporting them on his own, but are they going to be actively
> maintained with the rest of the themes by the development community?
>

Don't forget you can always make the necessary changes to make these
themes work with current svn, make a diff and post it to trac for one
of the devs to review.

Stuart A
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