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Interface to HID remote devices

 

 

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ceaker at mindspring

Jun 4, 2007, 9:14 AM

Post #1 of 12 (9087 views)
Permalink
Interface to HID remote devices

I'm trying to investigate using a HID remote control device (Logitech UltraX remote) with Mythtv. Basically, it appears to the system as a HID keyboard. What I'm finding using EditKeys is that while many of the keys on the remote are recognized by Mythtv, many of the media remote oriented keys are not acknowledged by Mythtv at all (pressing the button on the remote to map the key/button within EditKeys simply does nothing).

I have determined that support for the Logitech UltraX remote has been added to hid-input.c (http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/9/10/197). I'm assuming that what's going on is that Mythtv is listening for standard keyboard input. It appears that somewhere along the line the remote buttons that don't map to a standard keyboard are getting dropped (buttons like 'DVD' or 'TV'). I don't know whether they are being ignored by the standard keyboard driver or ignored by Mythtv (I suspect the former, but that's just a guess).

The biggest challenge I'm running into is simply finding any kind of description of how any of this works. I'm not familiar with the linux architecture for handling user input or how it is received by applications. My suspicion is that to get this to work, Mythtv would have to be modified to recognize and listen to a separate interface in the HID driver that provides the key presses that are not part of the standard keyboard. But I don't know how to confirm this.

Can anyone point me in the right direction for how I might be able to make some progress on this? Anything would be appreciated (suggestions on this forum, other forums that might be more suited to these questions, HOWTOs, documentation, anything).

Thanks,
Clint


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mythtv at colin

Jun 4, 2007, 9:27 AM

Post #2 of 12 (8923 views)
Permalink
Re: Interface to HID remote devices [In reply to]

Clint Eaker wrote:
> I'm trying to investigate using a HID remote control device (Logitech UltraX remote) with Mythtv. Basically, it appears to the system as a HID keyboard. What I'm finding using EditKeys is that while many of the keys on the remote are recognized by Mythtv, many of the media remote oriented keys are not acknowledged by Mythtv at all (pressing the button on the remote to map the key/button within EditKeys simply does nothing).
>
> I have determined that support for the Logitech UltraX remote has been added to hid-input.c (http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/9/10/197). I'm assuming that what's going on is that Mythtv is listening for standard keyboard input. It appears that somewhere along the line the remote buttons that don't map to a standard keyboard are getting dropped (buttons like 'DVD' or 'TV'). I don't know whether they are being ignored by the standard keyboard driver or ignored by Mythtv (I suspect the former, but that's just a guess).
>
> The biggest challenge I'm running into is simply finding any kind of description of how any of this works. I'm not familiar with the linux architecture for handling user input or how it is received by applications. My suspicion is that to get this to work, Mythtv would have to be modified to recognize and listen to a separate interface in the HID driver that provides the key presses that are not part of the standard keyboard. But I don't know how to confirm this.
>
> Can anyone point me in the right direction for how I might be able to make some progress on this? Anything would be appreciated (suggestions on this forum, other forums that might be more suited to these questions, HOWTOs, documentation, anything).

Depending on how up-to-date your X11 install is, the apps you want to
play with are "xev" to see the events your "keyboard" generates, and
xmodmap to map those events to useful X Key Symbols.

Once they are mapped correctly I'm assuming that Myth will just work. I
reckon the problem at the moment is that they keys you mention are
simply not mapped.

Some distros handle this better than others.

You may also be better checking out the successor to xmodmap but my
brain is lacking coffee at the moment and I can't remember the details -
I think it's xkb

This should help you get started tho'.

Col.


--

+------------------------+
| Colin Guthrie |
+------------------------+
| myth(at)colin.guthr.ie |
| http://colin.guthr.ie/ |
+------------------------+
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micahgalizia at gmail

Jun 4, 2007, 11:08 AM

Post #3 of 12 (8928 views)
Permalink
Re: Interface to HID remote devices [In reply to]

On 6/4/07, Clint Eaker <ceaker [at] mindspring> wrote:
>
> I'm trying to investigate using a HID remote control device (Logitech
> UltraX remote) with Mythtv. Basically, it appears to the system as a HID
> keyboard. What I'm finding using EditKeys is that while many of the keys on
> the remote are recognized by Mythtv, many of the media remote oriented keys
> are not acknowledged by Mythtv at all (pressing the button on the remote to
> map the key/button within EditKeys simply does nothing).


Correct.

I have determined that support for the Logitech UltraX remote has been added
> to hid-input.c (http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/9/10/197). I'm assuming that
> what's going on is that Mythtv is listening for standard keyboard input. It
> appears that somewhere along the line the remote buttons that don't map to a
> standard keyboard are getting dropped (buttons like 'DVD' or 'TV'). I don't
> know whether they are being ignored by the standard keyboard driver or
> ignored by Mythtv (I suspect the former, but that's just a guess).


Keys aren't ignored by anything. However, not all kernel level events
translate properly in X. Whats worse, is that QT doesn't listen to all of
X's key events. There are several different X drivers you can play with to
try to get more of your keys working. I played with the evdev X driver in a
while, but that is probably your best bet to get all of the keys working in
X. From there you can modmap them to something that QT can understand, and
then bind them with mythcontrols.

The biggest challenge I'm running into is simply finding any kind of
> description of how any of this works. I'm not familiar with the linux
> architecture for handling user input or how it is received by
> applications. My suspicion is that to get this to work, Mythtv would have
> to be modified to recognize and listen to a separate interface in the HID
> driver that provides the key presses that are not part of the standard
> keyboard. But I don't know how to confirm this.


I tried that a LONG time ago and never got anywhere with it. Ideally
everything would translate nicely, but neither X nor QT have events for all
of the multimedia buttons on that remote control. You might have to accept
that not all keys will work (or you might just need to map some of them).

Can anyone point me in the right direction for how I might be able to make
> some progress on this? Anything would be appreciated (suggestions on this
> forum, other forums that might be more suited to these questions, HOWTOs,
> documentation, anything).


I think the solution above might be your only hope. LIRC might also give
you the desired effect, and there is lots of documentation on that.

Cheers
--
"The mark of an immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause,
while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one."
--W. Stekel


mtdean at thirdcontact

Jun 4, 2007, 11:17 AM

Post #4 of 12 (8932 views)
Permalink
Re: Interface to HID remote devices [In reply to]

On 06/04/2007 12:14 PM, Clint Eaker wrote:
> What I'm finding using EditKeys is that while many of the keys on the remote are recognized by Mythtv, many of the media remote oriented keys are not acknowledged by Mythtv at all (pressing the button on the remote to map the key/button within EditKeys simply does nothing).

http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/261395#261395

> The biggest challenge I'm running into is simply finding any kind of description of how any of this works. I'm not familiar with the linux architecture for handling user input or how it is received by applications. My suspicion is that to get this to work, Mythtv would have to be modified to recognize and listen to a separate interface in the HID driver that provides the key presses that are not part of the standard keyboard. But I don't know how to confirm this.
>

QT, not Myth, would need modification to support other keys (i.e. the
"KEY_TV" or "KEY_DVD" (kernel) keys). At first glance, it seems QT4
(which Myth cannot yet use) hasn't really updated the list of keys
except for a few i18n and capitalization changes (so, really, nothing
for multimedia keys). Oh, and to make things more interesting, you'll
find nice comments in the QT code (this, particularly, from QT 4.3.0's
qkeymapper_x11.cpp):

// Special multimedia keys
// currently only tested with MS internet keyboard

It seems QT is taking the "least-common denominator" approach to
platform independence on this matter. So, you'll have to remap the keys
from the unsupported keysyms to some keysyms that QT recognizes (which
means looking at the QT code to see how QT maps X11 keysyms (not kernel
keys) to QT key names) and hope that between all your keyboards/remotes
you don't run out of supported keysyms.

Mike
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dave at atkinson

Jun 4, 2007, 5:26 PM

Post #5 of 12 (8931 views)
Permalink
Re: Interface to HID remote devices [In reply to]

Clint,

The way I would approach this is to hack the kernel to map the remote keys to
what you want. I did this for the Twinhan remote see the bottom of

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Twinhan_Ter_or_MiniTer_DVT_PCI

This way you dont need to worry about X or Qt or LIRC just remap to the remote
key set. Modifying hid-input.c as I did allows you to support a usb keyboard
and remote at the same time without the key mapping interfering with each other.

The missing keys is probably because they are being mapped to nothing in
hid-input.

I'm taking the same approach for a USB remote that came with a product called
USB Radio XTreme (cheapest remote I could find locally in Australia and I
needed another one for a frontend I'm building). I've written a kernel driver
for it that remaps the keys to my current myth key settings.

Regards
David

p.s. hid-input.c is front event driven USB HID devices. It handles a rnge of
devices including keyboards, mice, joysticks. FOr keyboaords it basically
receives input event from the device which is a key number indexed from 0. It
then does a translation using a simple array to determine what key event this
should be translated to and then generates the input event.

On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 12:14:51 -0400 (GMT-04:00), Clint Eaker wrote
> I'm trying to investigate using a HID remote control device
> (Logitech UltraX remote) with Mythtv. Basically, it appears to the
> system as a HID keyboard. What I'm finding using EditKeys is that
> while many of the keys on the remote are recognized by Mythtv, many
> of the media remote oriented keys are not acknowledged by Mythtv at
> all (pressing the button on the remote to map the key/button within
> EditKeys simply does nothing).
>
> I have determined that support for the Logitech UltraX remote has
> been added to hid-input.c (http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/9/10/197). I'm
> assuming that what's going on is that Mythtv is listening for
> standard keyboard input. It appears that somewhere along the line
> the remote buttons that don't map to a standard keyboard are getting
> dropped (buttons like 'DVD' or 'TV'). I don't know whether they are
> being ignored by the standard keyboard driver or ignored by Mythtv
> (I suspect the former, but that's just a guess).
>
> The biggest challenge I'm running into is simply finding any kind of
> description of how any of this works. I'm not familiar with the
> linux architecture for handling user input or how it is received by
> applications. My suspicion is that to get this to work, Mythtv
> would have to be modified to recognize and listen to a separate
> interface in the HID driver that provides the key presses that are
> not part of the standard keyboard. But I don't know how to confirm this.
>
> Can anyone point me in the right direction for how I might be able
> to make some progress on this? Anything would be appreciated
> (suggestions on this forum, other forums that might be more suited
> to these questions, HOWTOs, documentation, anything).
>
> Thanks,
> Clint
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-dev mailing list
> mythtv-dev [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-dev

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watkinshome at gmail

Jun 5, 2007, 1:33 AM

Post #6 of 12 (8911 views)
Permalink
Re: Interface to HID remote devices [In reply to]

The biggest challenge I'm running into is simply finding any kind of
description of how any of this works. I'm not familiar with the linux
architecture for handling user input or how it is received by
applications. My suspicion is that to get this to work, Mythtv would
have to be modified to recognize and listen to a separate interface in
the HID driver that provides the key presses that are not part of the
standard keyboard. But I don't know how to confirm this.

Does a /dev/input/event device get created for your remote? ie. if you type:

cat /proc/bus/input/devices

do you see an entry for your remote with a reference to
/dev/input/eventx (where x is a number)? If so you can probably use
lirc to do the key-mapping for you.

try

irrecord -H dev/input -d /dev/input/eventN myconfig.conf

where N is the number of the event associated with your remote. If
you get a response for all your keys then you should be able to use
lirc with something like

lircd -H dev/input -d /dev/input/eventN

using the lircd.conf file that irrecord created.

Have a look at this page of the wiki

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Hauppauge_WinTV_Nova-T_PCI

it's Nova-T specific but the 'remote' bit may apply. It also talks
about patching the driver module, which would probably also work for
you, if you could work out which module your remote is using.

Good Luck

D
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ceaker at mindspring

Jun 15, 2007, 6:33 AM

Post #7 of 12 (8786 views)
Permalink
Re: Interface to HID remote devices [In reply to]

>I'm trying to investigate using a HID remote control device (Logitech UltraX remote) with Mythtv.
>Basically, it appears to the system as a HID keyboard. What I'm finding using EditKeys is that while
>many of the keys on the remote are recognized by Mythtv, many of the media remote oriented keys are
>not acknowledged by Mythtv at all (pressing the button on the remote to map the key/button within
>EditKeys simply does nothing).
>
>I have determined that support for the Logitech UltraX remote has been added to hid-input.c(http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/9/10/197).
>I'm assuming that what's going on is that Mythtv is listening for standard keyboard input. It appears
>that somewhere along the line the remote buttons that don't map to a standard keyboard are getting
>dropped (buttons like 'DVD' or 'TV'). I don't know whether they are being ignored by the standard
>keyboard driver or ignored by Mythtv (I suspect the former, but that's just a guess).
>
>The biggest challenge I'm running into is simply finding any kind of description of how any of this works.
>I'm not familiar with the linux architecture for handling user input or how it is received by applications.
>My suspicion is that to get this to work, Mythtv would have to be modified to recognize and listen to
>a separate interface in the HID driver that provides the key presses that are not part of the standard
>keyboard. But I don't know how to confirm this.
>
>Can anyone point me in the right direction for how I might be able to make some progress on this?
>Anything would be appreciated (suggestions on this forum, other forums that might be more suited to
>these questions, HOWTOs, documentation, anything).

Thanks for all the replies I've received on this. After reading all the replies and other resources I've
found, I'm convinced that it should be possible to get all the buttons on this remote working with no
kernel hacking. I'll post a more complete description of what I've found when I get it all figured out,
but I've run into one obstacle that I'm having trouble getting past.

As a preliminary summary, about 8 keys on the remote "just work" (arrows, enter, kp_enter, home, clear).

A significant set of keys seem to have scancode to keycode mappings in the kernel, but aren't recognized by
X. These keycodes can be identified with xev and then the keycodes can be made known to X with xmodmap.
These keys are now working and are recognized by EditKeys in MythTV.

The problem keys are those that don't seem to have a scancode to keycode mapping in the kernel. I have
confirmed that events are being generated in evdev for every key on the remote (both by hacking the evdev
module and adding printk statments and rebuilding the kernel with evbug enabled). I've come across HOWTOs
that describe how to define these mappings to the kernel using setkeycodes
(http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Use_Multimedia_Keys), but according to this HOWTO, events that have no mapping
to a keycode are logged in the syslog. That is not happening on my Debian Etch system.

I don't know if there is something that is not enabled to allow this on my system or if HID keyboard devices
simply don't use the portions of the kernel input code that generates those logs. At any rate, the info
produced by evbug doesn't seem to be the raw scancode and that's what I'm having trouble finding.

If I could simply determine the raw scancodes for the keys that aren't currently being mapped to keycodes in
the kernel, then I could define those mappings using setkeycodes, define the new keycodes for X in .Xmodmad,
and I'd be golden.

I suppose I could simply sledgehammer this by defining all the unmapped scancodes to unused keycodes and use
xev to see which keycodes show up for the currently unmapped keys. I'm hoping someone might be able to give
me a better way to determine the scancodes for the unmapped keys. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Clint


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watkinshome at gmail

Jun 15, 2007, 10:06 AM

Post #8 of 12 (8790 views)
Permalink
Re: Interface to HID remote devices [In reply to]

On 15/06/07, Clint Eaker <ceaker [at] mindspring> wrote:
> >I'm trying to investigate using a HID remote control device (Logitech UltraX remote) with Mythtv.
> >Basically, it appears to the system as a HID keyboard. What I'm finding using EditKeys is that while
> >many of the keys on the remote are recognized by Mythtv, many of the media remote oriented keys are
> >not acknowledged by Mythtv at all (pressing the button on the remote to map the key/button within
> >EditKeys simply does nothing).
> >
> >I have determined that support for the Logitech UltraX remote has been added to hid-input.c(http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/9/10/197).
> >I'm assuming that what's going on is that Mythtv is listening for standard keyboard input. It appears
> >that somewhere along the line the remote buttons that don't map to a standard keyboard are getting
> >dropped (buttons like 'DVD' or 'TV'). I don't know whether they are being ignored by the standard
> >keyboard driver or ignored by Mythtv (I suspect the former, but that's just a guess).
> >
> >The biggest challenge I'm running into is simply finding any kind of description of how any of this works.
> >I'm not familiar with the linux architecture for handling user input or how it is received by applications.
> >My suspicion is that to get this to work, Mythtv would have to be modified to recognize and listen to
> >a separate interface in the HID driver that provides the key presses that are not part of the standard
> >keyboard. But I don't know how to confirm this.
> >
> >Can anyone point me in the right direction for how I might be able to make some progress on this?
> >Anything would be appreciated (suggestions on this forum, other forums that might be more suited to
> >these questions, HOWTOs, documentation, anything).
>
> Thanks for all the replies I've received on this. After reading all the replies and other resources I've
> found, I'm convinced that it should be possible to get all the buttons on this remote working with no
> kernel hacking. I'll post a more complete description of what I've found when I get it all figured out,
> but I've run into one obstacle that I'm having trouble getting past.
>
> As a preliminary summary, about 8 keys on the remote "just work" (arrows, enter, kp_enter, home, clear).
>
> A significant set of keys seem to have scancode to keycode mappings in the kernel, but aren't recognized by
> X. These keycodes can be identified with xev and then the keycodes can be made known to X with xmodmap.
> These keys are now working and are recognized by EditKeys in MythTV.
>
> The problem keys are those that don't seem to have a scancode to keycode mapping in the kernel. I have
> confirmed that events are being generated in evdev for every key on the remote (both by hacking the evdev
> module and adding printk statments and rebuilding the kernel with evbug enabled). I've come across HOWTOs
> that describe how to define these mappings to the kernel using setkeycodes
> (http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Use_Multimedia_Keys), but according to this HOWTO, events that have no mapping
> to a keycode are logged in the syslog. That is not happening on my Debian Etch system.
>
> I don't know if there is something that is not enabled to allow this on my system or if HID keyboard devices
> simply don't use the portions of the kernel input code that generates those logs. At any rate, the info
> produced by evbug doesn't seem to be the raw scancode and that's what I'm having trouble finding.
>
> If I could simply determine the raw scancodes for the keys that aren't currently being mapped to keycodes in
> the kernel, then I could define those mappings using setkeycodes, define the new keycodes for X in .Xmodmad,
> and I'd be golden.
>
> I suppose I could simply sledgehammer this by defining all the unmapped scancodes to unused keycodes and use
> xev to see which keycodes show up for the currently unmapped keys. I'm hoping someone might be able to give
> me a better way to determine the scancodes for the unmapped keys. Any ideas?

I'm not quite sure it this is going to help you but have you tried
evtest (part of dvb-tools I think).

I used

evtest /dev/input/event4

to confirm that every key was being received from my Hauppauge Nova-T
remote, when only about half-a-dozen were mapped to keycodes in the
kernel. Maybe though you've achieved the same thing with your evdev
hacking.
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kormoc at gmail

Jun 15, 2007, 10:44 AM

Post #9 of 12 (8772 views)
Permalink
Re: Interface to HID remote devices [In reply to]

On 6/15/07, Clint Eaker <ceaker [at] mindspring> wrote:
> I suppose I could simply sledgehammer this by defining all the unmapped scancodes to unused keycodes and use
> xev to see which keycodes show up for the currently unmapped keys. I'm hoping someone might be able to give
> me a better way to determine the scancodes for the unmapped keys. Any ideas?

Try lineakd (http://lineak.sourceforge.net/) ?

~Rob
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ceaker at mindspring

Jun 15, 2007, 11:45 AM

Post #10 of 12 (8771 views)
Permalink
Re: Interface to HID remote devices [In reply to]

>I'm not quite sure it this is going to help you but have you tried
>evtest (part of dvb-tools I think).
>
>I used
>
>evtest /dev/input/event4
>
>to confirm that every key was being received from my Hauppauge Nova-T
>remote, when only about half-a-dozen were mapped to keycodes in the
>kernel. Maybe though you've achieved the same thing with your evdev
>hacking.

Thanks for the pointer. I did get a pointer to this tool via a private email and plan to try using it this evening. I think this will resolve the issue.

Originally, I had thought that getting this to work might potentially require changes to MythTV and posted here. It is now obvious (as the private response politely pointed out) that this is not a myth-dev topic, so I'd like to try to wrap this up here. When I get everything resolved, I'll post a summary on myth-users and add a pointer to that post here.

I'm pretty sure that the missing piece has been identified. The UltraX Remote creates TWO event devices when it's plugged in. While I had noticed this early on, I didn't realize till today that perhaps the xev tool was only reporting events from one of those devices. I don't have my system handy right now, but I'm pretty sure this is what's going on and I'll be able to see the other events with evtest. I'll test this out at the next available opportunity (hopefully tonight).

Thanks for all the help,
Clint


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mythtv at colin

Jun 16, 2007, 1:36 AM

Post #11 of 12 (8774 views)
Permalink
Re: Interface to HID remote devices [In reply to]

David Watkins wrote:
> I'm not quite sure it this is going to help you but have you tried
> evtest (part of dvb-tools I think).

I'd imagine it's probably more related to the X11 evdev driver rather
than dvb-tools.

Make sure also your X11 config is setup to use the evdev driver! (you
can in theory ditch the mouse and kbd/keyboard drivers.... tho' I've
never really had much luck there!

Col

--

+------------------------+
| Colin Guthrie |
+------------------------+
| myth(at)colin.guthr.ie |
| http://colin.guthr.ie/ |
+------------------------+
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micahgalizia at gmail

Jun 16, 2007, 11:52 AM

Post #12 of 12 (8776 views)
Permalink
Re: Interface to HID remote devices [In reply to]

On 6/16/07, Colin Guthrie <mythtv [at] colin> wrote:
>
> David Watkins wrote:
> > I'm not quite sure it this is going to help you but have you tried
> > evtest (part of dvb-tools I think).
>
> I'd imagine it's probably more related to the X11 evdev driver rather
> than dvb-tools.
>
> Make sure also your X11 config is setup to use the evdev driver! (you
> can in theory ditch the mouse and kbd/keyboard drivers.... tho' I've
> never really had much luck there!


evdev works well with my remote. I have to remap just about everything with
xmodmap, but it works.

Col
>
> --
>
> +------------------------+
> | Colin Guthrie |
> +------------------------+
> | myth(at)colin.guthr.ie |
> | http://colin.guthr.ie/ |
> +------------------------+
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-dev mailing list
> mythtv-dev [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-dev
>



--
"The mark of an immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause,
while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one."
--W. Stekel

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