Mailing List Archive: MythTV: Dev

using myth as a remote client of iTunes.

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morgande51 at gmail

Mar 19, 2006, 5:43 AM

Post #1 of 12 (2463 views)
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using myth as a remote client of iTunes.

Hello all,

I've been using knoppmyth for about a year and a half now. All in all,
its been quite a good experiece for me. The only thing missing is
figuring out a way to use both iTunes and Mythtv.

I get a lot of my music from the iTMS. Apple has positioned iTunes and
the iPod as the stewarts of the Fairplay wrapped content. The problem
is figuring out a way to consume/access Fairplay content outside the
iTunes and iPod mediums...and not violate the DMCA.

Best I could figure, there is no present way to get Fairplay DRM
wrapped content onto Myth for play back. Next best way, IMHO, is to
remote control iTunes.

iTunes on Mac OSX is an application that is completley controlable via
AppleScript. OSX has hooks built into Applescript that allows for
outside applications written in other languages to communicate with
Applescript aware applications.

By trade, I happen to an Enterprise Java Developer. Quite easily,
there is a way to write applications in Java that communicate with
other Apple "iLife" applications via Applescript. This includes
iTunes.

It is possible to wrap Applescript calls to control iTunes in Java,
and expose the calls via some form of remote method invocation. I was
thinking about XML-RPC, but Corba will work just as easily.

Since version 4 I think, all iTunes content information is saved in an
xml file called iTunes Music Library.xml. Parsing this xml file could
give a remote client application everything it needed to call and
control iTunes and its music.

The hardest thing to do would be to create a Mythtv add-on to control
iTunes. The overall control flow would kind of work like this:

User interacts with a Myth iTunes remote client. The Client makes RMI
calls to a Java server, that it turn controls iTunes via Applescript.
iTunes processes commands from remote client, and plays music to a
home stereo device via direct connection or Airtunes.

In theory, this project wouldn't be too hard. Hell, there is already
an open-sourced project called mytunes that has the
Java-to-Applescript framework for iTunes already done. It also parses
the iTunes Music Library.xml Only thing to do is wrap the calles in
RMI, and create a myth client.

Anyone up to help with a project such as this? Im not sure, but I
think you can control iTunes on a PC using COM, but Im not sure. If
so, it may be possible to create a cross-platform Java iTunes Remote
Client.

Anyone who is interested please let me know.

--
DM
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chrisribe at gmail

Mar 19, 2006, 6:38 AM

Post #2 of 12 (2417 views)
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Re: using myth as a remote client of iTunes. [In reply to]

That seems like a lot of hoops to jump through if you aren't even
going to be doing playback through the Myth audio device.

On 3/19/06, Darnell Morgan <morgande51[at]gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I've been using knoppmyth for about a year and a half now. All in all,
> its been quite a good experiece for me. The only thing missing is
> figuring out a way to use both iTunes and Mythtv.
>
> I get a lot of my music from the iTMS. Apple has positioned iTunes and
> the iPod as the stewarts of the Fairplay wrapped content. The problem
> is figuring out a way to consume/access Fairplay content outside the
> iTunes and iPod mediums...and not violate the DMCA.
>
> Best I could figure, there is no present way to get Fairplay DRM
> wrapped content onto Myth for play back. Next best way, IMHO, is to
> remote control iTunes.
>
> iTunes on Mac OSX is an application that is completley controlable via
> AppleScript. OSX has hooks built into Applescript that allows for
> outside applications written in other languages to communicate with
> Applescript aware applications.
>
> By trade, I happen to an Enterprise Java Developer. Quite easily,
> there is a way to write applications in Java that communicate with
> other Apple "iLife" applications via Applescript. This includes
> iTunes.
>
> It is possible to wrap Applescript calls to control iTunes in Java,
> and expose the calls via some form of remote method invocation. I was
> thinking about XML-RPC, but Corba will work just as easily.
>
> Since version 4 I think, all iTunes content information is saved in an
> xml file called iTunes Music Library.xml. Parsing this xml file could
> give a remote client application everything it needed to call and
> control iTunes and its music.
>
> The hardest thing to do would be to create a Mythtv add-on to control
> iTunes. The overall control flow would kind of work like this:
>
> User interacts with a Myth iTunes remote client. The Client makes RMI
> calls to a Java server, that it turn controls iTunes via Applescript.
> iTunes processes commands from remote client, and plays music to a
> home stereo device via direct connection or Airtunes.
>
> In theory, this project wouldn't be too hard. Hell, there is already
> an open-sourced project called mytunes that has the
> Java-to-Applescript framework for iTunes already done. It also parses
> the iTunes Music Library.xml Only thing to do is wrap the calles in
> RMI, and create a myth client.
>
> Anyone up to help with a project such as this? Im not sure, but I
> think you can control iTunes on a PC using COM, but Im not sure. If
> so, it may be possible to create a cross-platform Java iTunes Remote
> Client.
>
> Anyone who is interested please let me know.
>
> --
> DM
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-dev mailing list
> mythtv-dev[at]mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-dev
>
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buzz at oska

Mar 19, 2006, 7:14 AM

Post #3 of 12 (2421 views)
Permalink

Re: using myth as a remote client of iTunes. [In reply to]

Why not just download your songs from iTunes with 'PyMusique' (
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7321263/ and http://drmnews.com/pymusique/ )
and avoid the DRM/DCMA problem altogether (songs downloaded with PyMusique
are not DRM protected in the first place).

Or for songs you already have, remove the DRM restrictions with 'Jhymn' (
http://hymn-project.org/ ). Note that the site says: "The purpose of the
Hymn Project is to allow you to exercise your fair-use rights under
copyright law." This sounds reasonable to me, but IANAL. Further, it says
"Before using any of the software on this web site, you should be aware of
the legal standing of DRM circumvention technology in your own country and
make your own decision whether using Hymn Project software is right for
you." YMMV.

Just my 2c.
Buzz.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mythtv-dev-bounces[at]mythtv.org
> [mailto:mythtv-dev-bounces[at]mythtv.org] On Behalf Of Darnell Morgan
> Sent: Sunday, 19 March 2006 11:44 PM
> To: mythtv-dev[at]mythtv.org
> Subject: [mythtv] using myth as a remote client of iTunes.
>
> Hello all,
>
> I've been using knoppmyth for about a year and a half now.
> All in all, its been quite a good experiece for me. The only
> thing missing is figuring out a way to use both iTunes and Mythtv.
>
> I get a lot of my music from the iTMS. Apple has positioned
> iTunes and the iPod as the stewarts of the Fairplay wrapped
> content. The problem is figuring out a way to consume/access
> Fairplay content outside the iTunes and iPod mediums...and
> not violate the DMCA.
>
> Best I could figure, there is no present way to get Fairplay
> DRM wrapped content onto Myth for play back. Next best way,
> IMHO, is to remote control iTunes.
>
> iTunes on Mac OSX is an application that is completley
> controlable via AppleScript. OSX has hooks built into
> Applescript that allows for outside applications written in
> other languages to communicate with Applescript aware applications.
>
> By trade, I happen to an Enterprise Java Developer. Quite
> easily, there is a way to write applications in Java that
> communicate with other Apple "iLife" applications via
> Applescript. This includes iTunes.
>
> It is possible to wrap Applescript calls to control iTunes in
> Java, and expose the calls via some form of remote method
> invocation. I was thinking about XML-RPC, but Corba will work
> just as easily.
>
> Since version 4 I think, all iTunes content information is
> saved in an xml file called iTunes Music Library.xml. Parsing
> this xml file could give a remote client application
> everything it needed to call and control iTunes and its music.
>
> The hardest thing to do would be to create a Mythtv add-on to
> control iTunes. The overall control flow would kind of work like this:
>
> User interacts with a Myth iTunes remote client. The Client
> makes RMI calls to a Java server, that it turn controls
> iTunes via Applescript.
> iTunes processes commands from remote client, and plays music
> to a home stereo device via direct connection or Airtunes.
>
> In theory, this project wouldn't be too hard. Hell, there is
> already an open-sourced project called mytunes that has the
> Java-to-Applescript framework for iTunes already done. It
> also parses the iTunes Music Library.xml Only thing to do is
> wrap the calles in RMI, and create a myth client.
>
> Anyone up to help with a project such as this? Im not sure,
> but I think you can control iTunes on a PC using COM, but Im
> not sure. If so, it may be possible to create a
> cross-platform Java iTunes Remote Client.
>
> Anyone who is interested please let me know.
>
> --
> DM
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-dev mailing list
> mythtv-dev[at]mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-dev
>

_______________________________________________
mythtv-dev mailing list
mythtv-dev[at]mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-dev

mtdean at thirdcontact

Mar 19, 2006, 10:28 AM

Post #4 of 12 (2388 views)
Permalink

Re: using myth as a remote client of iTunes. [In reply to]

On 03/19/2006 10:14 AM, Buzz wrote:
> Why not just download your songs from iTunes with 'PyMusique' (
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7321263/ and http://drmnews.com/pymusique/ )
> and avoid the DRM/DCMA problem altogether (songs downloaded with PyMusique
> are not DRM protected in the first place).
>

That may avoid the DRM problem, but certainly does *not* avoid the DCMA
problem. PyMusique strips the DRM from the song as it's downloaded,
which is explicitly forbidden by the DMCA.

> Or for songs you already have, remove the DRM restrictions with 'Jhymn' (
> http://hymn-project.org/ ). Note that the site says: "The purpose of the
> Hymn Project is to allow you to exercise your fair-use rights under
> copyright law." This sounds reasonable to me, but IANAL. Further, it says
> "Before using any of the software on this web site, you should be aware of
> the legal standing of DRM circumvention technology in your own country and
> make your own decision whether using Hymn Project software is right for
> you." YMMV.
= this is not legal in the US... Now, whether you would ever be
prosecuted for using it is a whole other question.

Mike
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morgande51 at gmail

Mar 19, 2006, 11:10 AM

Post #5 of 12 (2410 views)
Permalink

Re: using myth as a remote client of iTunes. [In reply to]

While there are ways (both legal, and not so legal) to remove the DRM
wrapper, that may not be an option for someone who has already built a
large collection of Fairplay wrapped content from iTMS.

I admit that my proposed solution does involve quite a few "hoops".
If anyone else has another idea of how to implement this, I'd love to
hear it.
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mythtv at colin

Mar 19, 2006, 11:21 AM

Post #6 of 12 (2404 views)
Permalink

Re: using myth as a remote client of iTunes. [In reply to]

Hi,

Michael T. Dean wrote:
>>Why not just download your songs from iTunes with 'PyMusique' (
>>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7321263/ and http://drmnews.com/pymusique/ )
>>and avoid the DRM/DCMA problem altogether (songs downloaded with PyMusique
>>are not DRM protected in the first place).
>
> That may avoid the DRM problem, but certainly does *not* avoid the DCMA
> problem. PyMusique strips the DRM from the song as it's downloaded,
> which is explicitly forbidden by the DMCA.

While I'm not really sure about this, when I read the stuff about
PyMusique a while back, it was my understanding that the content is not
protected when it's downloaded. The DRM is normally added in by iTunes
when it interacts with iTMS. Thus PyMusique neatly sidesteps the whole
DRM issue and possible the DMCA issue as it's not circumvention, it's
avoidance. But IANAL either ;)

I could also being getting all this totally wrong.

Asside from all this, is there no way to use DAAP to play the songs from
iTunes in Myth? Even the DRM limited ones? I've not really used iTunes,
so don't really know... Perhaps the server strips the DRM out when
playing via DAAP? I don't know but perhaps worth investigating.

I know Thor's work DAAP integration has stalled but I know he was able
to play iTunes content in Myth via DAAP. No idea about DRM protected
content tho'

Col.

--

+------------------------+
| Colin Guthrie |
+------------------------+
| myth(at)colin.guthr.ie |
| http://colin.guthr.ie/ |
+------------------------+
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mtdean at thirdcontact

Mar 19, 2006, 11:33 AM

Post #7 of 12 (2389 views)
Permalink

Re: using myth as a remote client of iTunes. [In reply to]

On 03/19/2006 02:21 PM, Colin Guthrie wrote:
> Michael T. Dean wrote:
>
>>> Why not just download your songs from iTunes with 'PyMusique' (
>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7321263/ and http://drmnews.com/pymusique/ )
>>> and avoid the DRM/DCMA problem altogether (songs downloaded with PyMusique
>>> are not DRM protected in the first place).
>>>
>> That may avoid the DRM problem, but certainly does *not* avoid the DCMA
>> problem. PyMusique strips the DRM from the song as it's downloaded,
>> which is explicitly forbidden by the DMCA.
>>
>
> While I'm not really sure about this, when I read the stuff about
> PyMusique a while back, it was my understanding that the content is not
> protected when it's downloaded. The DRM is normally added in by iTunes
> when it interacts with iTMS. Thus PyMusique neatly sidesteps the whole
> DRM issue and possible the DMCA issue as it's not circumvention, it's
> avoidance. But IANAL either ;)
>
> I could also being getting all this totally wrong.

I don't know for sure, either, but I'm basing my information on the
first article linked by Buzz, which is headed, "Teen builds Linux
workaround for iTunes: Program lets users buy music, but DRM tech
stripped." The article itself isn't specific about how the "DRM tech
[is] stripped," and leaves the possibility open that it works as you've
described.

However, in the event that iTunes is adding the DRM, since the Apple
iTunes application is the only application authorized to download files
from Apple, Apple could easily make the argument that iTunes itself is
the "technological protection" for the copyrighted material. Since
PyMusique circumvents iTunes...

Remember, nothing in the DMCA says that the "technological protections"
must be formidable--thus the fact that it's illegal in the US to possess
a copy of DeCSS that can be easily made machine executable, even though
CSS is a joke.

Mike

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robthebob at gmail

Mar 19, 2006, 2:37 PM

Post #8 of 12 (2402 views)
Permalink

Re: using myth as a remote client of iTunes. [In reply to]

On 3/19/06, Michael T. Dean <mtdean[at]thirdcontact.com> wrote:
> >> That may avoid the DRM problem, but certainly does *not* avoid the DCMA
> >> problem. PyMusique strips the DRM from the song as it's downloaded,
> >> which is explicitly forbidden by the DMCA.

Just to clarify, iTunes adds it, pyMusique just doesn't add it. No problem.
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mythtv at colin

Mar 19, 2006, 3:32 PM

Post #9 of 12 (2402 views)
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Re: using myth as a remote client of iTunes. [In reply to]

Robin Neatherway wrote:

> Just to clarify, iTunes adds it, pyMusique just doesn't add it. No problem.

Thought so. But then again Michael did make a fairly valid point about
"iTunes itself is the "technological protection" for the copyrighted
material. Since PyMusique circumvents iTunes...". I'm sure this has
been discussed to death elsewhere tho', so we probably shouldn't clog
this list up too much chatting about it. :)

Makes me glad I don't live in the US! That said, things are pretty
crappy (legally speaking) in the UK too, just that people generally
don't get sued as much at the moment. I wont hold my breath for too long
tho'.

Col

--

+------------------------+
| Colin Guthrie |
+------------------------+
| myth(at)colin.guthr.ie |
| http://colin.guthr.ie/ |
+------------------------+
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buzz at oska

Mar 19, 2006, 6:11 PM

Post #10 of 12 (2388 views)
Permalink

Re: using myth as a remote client of iTunes. [In reply to]

But then iTunes also lets you burn the songs to an audio CD, doesn't it. (I
don't use it, so correct me if I'm wrong).

Audio CD's don't have DRM on the content.

If you want to be pedantic about it, you could burn Audio CD's of each and
every song/album, quite legitimately, using the iTunes software, and
although the DRM is removed, the "technological protection" has not been
circumvented at all, in any way. You are then free to do whatever,
including converting/ripping the CD/s back into whatever on-line format you
like.

How can it be illegal to convert AAC(DRM)->AAC(no DRM) and not illegal to
convert AAC(DRM)->WAV(ON CD)->WAV(ON HDD)->AAC or WHATEVER(no DRM).

Buzz.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mythtv-dev-bounces[at]mythtv.org
> [mailto:mythtv-dev-bounces[at]mythtv.org] On Behalf Of Colin Guthrie
> Sent: Monday, 20 March 2006 9:33 AM
> To: Development of mythtv
> Subject: Re: [mythtv] using myth as a remote client of iTunes.
>
> Robin Neatherway wrote:
>
> > Just to clarify, iTunes adds it, pyMusique just doesn't add
> it. No problem.
>
> Thought so. But then again Michael did make a fairly valid
> point about "iTunes itself is the "technological protection"
> for the copyrighted material. Since PyMusique circumvents
> iTunes...". I'm sure this has been discussed to death
> elsewhere tho', so we probably shouldn't clog this list up
> too much chatting about it. :)
>
> Makes me glad I don't live in the US! That said, things are
> pretty crappy (legally speaking) in the UK too, just that
> people generally don't get sued as much at the moment. I wont
> hold my breath for too long tho'.
>
> Col
>
> --
>
> +------------------------+
> | Colin Guthrie |
> +------------------------+
> | myth(at)colin.guthr.ie |
> | http://colin.guthr.ie/ |
> +------------------------+
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-dev mailing list
> mythtv-dev[at]mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-dev
>

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chrisribe at gmail

Mar 19, 2006, 6:57 PM

Post #11 of 12 (2398 views)
Permalink

Re: using myth as a remote client of iTunes. [In reply to]

To get back to the original point, if you want control iTunes playback
on your OSX machine from your remote MythFrontend, just use VNC or
something similar and open a remote desktop with iTunes maximized.

If you want to play music from your iTunes library on your (Linux)
Myth frontend box, mount your iTunes library, read the xml file for
the meta data, and use an existing Linux media player.

I'm in the same boat, I'm an iTunes/iTMS/iPod user, but I'm resigned
to finding an extralegal way to get rid of fairplay on the 500 or so
songs I have bought from iTMS.

Hell, it's something I need to do anyway if I want to keep this music long term.
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morgande51 at gmail

Mar 19, 2006, 8:14 PM

Post #12 of 12 (2388 views)
Permalink

Re: using myth as a remote client of iTunes. [In reply to]

I'm looking for a solution that flows more with the UI.

Using a VNC solution would work, but it would break the look and feel
thats already in place. I was hoping to develope a solution that keep
the existing Myth GUI.
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