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Re: Why people not using mod_perl

 

 

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torsten.foertsch at gmx

Sep 17, 2009, 2:12 PM

Post #26 of 34 (997 views)
Permalink
Re: Why people not using mod_perl [In reply to]

On Thu 17 Sep 2009, Kiran Kumar wrote:
> There is also Padre (http://padre.perlide.org/) , You can write
> plugins and customize to your needs, there are already lots of
> plugins available
>  http://search.cpan.org/search?query=padre%3A%3Aplugin&mode=all

I have seen padre first time at the this year German perl workshop in
February and tried it out a bit. What I miss is syntax highlighting and
indentation for C, XS and Perl in one tool. Can padre handle this? Last
time I looked it could not but that was half a year ago.

I am using Emacs for almost 20 years now but it lacks good XS support.

Torsten

--
Need professional mod_perl support?
Just hire me: torsten.foertsch [at] gmx


dihnen at amazon

Sep 17, 2009, 2:17 PM

Post #27 of 34 (999 views)
Permalink
RE: Why people not using mod_perl [In reply to]

Perhaps it could in some portion be quantified as "The ability to think about a program without the ide/language structure suggesting paths for you".

The possibilities are infinite. I can imagine that would be a problem for many.

David


From: Igor Chudov [mailto:ichudov [at] gmail]
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:22 PM
Cc: mod_perl list
Subject: Re: Why people not using mod_perl

Just to add a little bit.

In my experience, perl programming requires a certain type of mind. I cannot define it very precisely, but not everyone can "think in perl". Those who can, basically, have a huge advantage over those who cannot, but that naturally limits perl adoption somewhat. I think that more people can think in java than in perl.

I would hope that as long as use of perl is substantial, it will remain a viable platform that I can enjoy and use to live and make money. I do not care if perl is "very popular", or just "popular", I will be happy as long as it is "viable".

Igor


smsiebe at gmail

Sep 17, 2009, 2:50 PM

Post #28 of 34 (1002 views)
Permalink
Re: Why people not using mod_perl [In reply to]

> > Add to this Jeff's comment on the availability of high caliber perl
> > engineers...we are almost forced to make this decision.
>
> Maybe you aren't looking in the right places:
>
> http://jobs.perl.org
> YAPC::*
> This email list
> The Perl Mongers groups
>
> Dice, Craigslist, Monster, etc. are great places to find Java
> programmers but bad places to find Perl programmers. In Silicon
> Valley, you can usually shake a tree and a couple of Java programmers
> will fall out.. ;)
>
> I agree with you for the typical environment...however, our project is not
government owned but comes with a current/updated security clearance
requirement - significantly reducing the available pool. Our situation is
unique in that requirement but I it reduces the pool of eligible programmers
across all languages the same (although I have no research to back up this
claim). So...if there are 1:1000 quality perl:java engineers our ratio
stays the same...but the pool is that much smaller.


adam.prime at utoronto

Sep 17, 2009, 2:51 PM

Post #29 of 34 (1005 views)
Permalink
Re: Why people not using mod_perl [In reply to]

Torsten Foertsch wrote:
> On Thu 17 Sep 2009, Kiran Kumar wrote:
>
> I have seen padre first time at the this year German perl workshop in
> February and tried it out a bit. What I miss is syntax highlighting and
> indentation for C, XS and Perl in one tool. Can padre handle this? Last
> time I looked it could not but that was half a year ago.
>
> I am using Emacs for almost 20 years now but it lacks good XS support.

Padre has been advancing rapidly over the last 6 months or so. I
haven't actually used it, but the syntax highlighting for perl is
supposed to be the best there is in any editor (since it uses PPI)

I don't know about XS or C support, but padre is pluggable, and they are
always looking for more help. #padre on irc.perl.org

Adam


jeffpeng at mindspring

Sep 17, 2009, 7:06 PM

Post #30 of 34 (993 views)
Permalink
Re: Why people not using mod_perl [In reply to]

Just was curious, is CGI running with perl6 most likely the same as Java with JVM?

Regards,
Jeff Peng


clint at traveljury

Sep 18, 2009, 1:34 AM

Post #31 of 34 (996 views)
Permalink
Re: Why people not using mod_perl [In reply to]

On Thu, 2009-09-17 at 23:12 +0200, Torsten Foertsch wrote:
> On Thu 17 Sep 2009, Kiran Kumar wrote:
> > There is also Padre (http://padre.perlide.org/) , You can write
> > plugins and customize to your needs, there are already lots of
> > plugins available
> > http://search.cpan.org/search?query=padre%3A%3Aplugin&mode=all
>
> I have seen padre first time at the this year German perl workshop in
> February and tried it out a bit. What I miss is syntax highlighting and
> indentation for C, XS and Perl in one tool. Can padre handle this? Last
> time I looked it could not but that was half a year ago.

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned EPIC, the Perl plugin for
Eclipse. It works really really well, at least as well as the Java
version (although it can't do as much prediction as Java can because of
the nature of static vs dynamic languages).

Full subversion integration, bugzilla/trac/jira integration, regex
debugger, good syntax highlighting, builtin Perl Tidy, Perl Critic etc
etc and of course, you get support for other languages in the same
application.

There is a git plugin, but it is somewhat basic - it's the main reason I
keep using subversion rather than git.

I don't know how well it supports XS.

If you've never tried it, I'd highly recommend it. Like all new
environments, it takes a while to get used to, but it is worth making
the effort.

clint


>
> I am using Emacs for almost 20 years now but it lacks good XS support.
>
> Torsten
>


dietbuddha at gmail

Sep 18, 2009, 8:20 PM

Post #32 of 34 (989 views)
Permalink
Re: Why people not using mod_perl [In reply to]

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 1:34 AM, Clinton Gormley <clint [at] traveljury> wrote:
> I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned EPIC, the Perl plugin for
> Eclipse.  It works really really well, at least as well as the Java
> version (although it can't do as much prediction as Java can because of
> the nature of static vs dynamic languages).

The problem is necessarily dynamic vs static, but rather a language
with a BNF compared to a language without.  By BNF I actually mean a
set of rules by which to parse (BNF actually being the rules in a
particular format).  Much of most modern IDE capabilities are hindered
by not being able to parse the code.

>> I am using Emacs for almost 20 years now but it lacks good XS support.

Emacs has worked pretty well for me so far.  I tried other IDEs, and I
found most of the to be clunky and too window based.  I find I'm most
productive when I use Emacs.

-wjt


dihnen at amazon

Oct 23, 2009, 4:06 PM

Post #33 of 34 (872 views)
Permalink
RE: Why people not using mod_perl [In reply to]

My first response is, “What makes you think they don’t?”

But I must point out that at the scale that Amazon runs at, the technology used for front end web page rendering – as critical as it is – not what runs Amazon.

Can you run service calls to caches and systems from a mason-based mod_perl interface?

Load Amazon.com to find out.

Does that mean its running on mod_perl?

Debatable.

There are so many systems that are loosely coupled – they respond to, accept data from, and otherwise interact with the web site end of the system – but they’re java and c++ as well as perl – and THOSE – in my opinion at least – are ‘what amazon runs on’.

And when you’re talking about what amazon runs on - these ‘back end’ type systems (those which are not specifically involved in the rendering of a page for display via http) mod_perl is of course *not* what they use, because – even if they ARE written in perl – they don’t work in that particular paradigm.

So is ‘what you run on’ defined by your web server page view controller software – or the software that actually runs the heart your business and processes? Hmm. Does Coca-Cola run on a factory, or on a delivery truck?

David

From: Brad Van Sickle [mailto:bvs7085 [at] gmail]
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:32 PM
To: mod_perl list
Subject: Re: Why people not using mod_perl

But I'm very interested to know at what point (if any) a site/app grows too large or too complex for mod_perl and what defines that turning point. Could Amazon run on mod_perl for example?


dietbuddha at gmail

Oct 24, 2009, 9:09 AM

Post #34 of 34 (866 views)
Permalink
Re: Why people not using mod_perl [In reply to]

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Ihnen, David <dihnen [at] amazon> wrote:
>
> But I'm very interested to know at what point (if any) a site/app grows too
> large or too complex for mod_perl and what defines that turning point.
> Could Amazon run on mod_perl for example?

To me mod_perl is just a platform like most other web stacks. As such
ANY webapp written with ANY webstack that is designed and built for
efficient horizontal scaling can be used. Take into account how to
make the best use of a CDN, how to distribute database load (probably
by partioning).

-wjt

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