stas at stason
Jan 22, 2002, 4:53 AM
Post #11 of 13
> Stas Bekman wrote:
>>>well, granted, the content looses a little focus beeing
>>>box-border-less. i dont mind that at all. in fact i regard
>>>it as feature (!). when i surf a site (that i have never
>>>visited before) the most important thing focus-wise for me
>>>is in a way not the content but the navigation.
>>>can you follow me? i mean, there is no way (in either
>>>design) that you feel lost (navigation-wise) at anytime - on
>>true, if you navigate a lot. This is not the case with perl.apache.org
>>-- here you spend most of the time sitting in one place and reading the
> but is that an argument for using boxes and contrasting bg?
> if we had a lot of commerical crap flying around pur pages i
> would agree but the very basic of our design is so simple -
> you just start reading from a point and then downwards -
> there are nothing distracting in your way - it just like a
> normal word-document or whatever.
> the way i see it we simply (basically) just have this:
> - menu
> - content area
> everything in the content area is documentation, ie stuff
> that people want to sit and _read_ and move inside. correct
> me if im wrong, but i think if you take almost any
> word-processing editor or text-editor or dtp-program (at
> least for windows and macintosh) they will default have a
> white background-color and a black default font - i reckon
> there is a reason for this. the finished document from such
> a word-proccesor will more often than not look close to our
> design in the content area. a header (often centered), some
> teaser text, base text with some headlines etc.
well you brought a good example to prove yourself wrong :) The word
processors have a separate box for the editing window. And the rest of
the navigation (tools in this case) are in separate physical boxes.
Of course in the case of the wordprocessor you don't need an extra bg
contrast, you already have a physical window! Though, they do put all
the tools onto a different background, very contrasting with the editing
I don't necessarily think that word-processor is the same concept, but
you brought this on yourself :)
> anyway, i think that you and i simply disagree on this and
> if i cannot persuade you by a good design, then too bad.
Actually I don't try to disagree with you, I just think that making the
content stand-out helps.
I think the main point is that navigation should be there, but it's not
the purpose of the site. Therefore it shouldn't standout the same way
the content does.
> i am working on a new design similar to the one from yesterday.
> screenshot from ie5:
> do you like any of those ideas - the bar-widget is not
> finished ...
very neat! And as Thomas has commented, do use tables if you need.
>>>yes, it probably is not user-friendly but on the other hand
>>>not exactly hostile either :-)
>>>its not like the menu takes up a lot of words and space. to
>>>me this particular issue wrt the menu is a very small sacrifice.
>>>btw, if you turn off stylesheets its in fact more
>>>user-friendly than the original design IMO.
>>But why? because it looks fancier?
> centered text looks IMO fancier here yes (dont know why).
> titles are also often centered, so people are used to
> centered text from time to time.
nope, this argument doesn't fit here :).
Titles are not coming immediately one after another, but separated with
at least one or more paragraphs of text. Therefore it's easy to read a
centralized title, because it's single. And usually you want people to
pause after reading it. That's why you use a bigger font for titles.
When you centralize a menu or any other number of subsequent lines of
varying length, you make the user work harder, since her eyes have to
scroll left and right to find the beginning of the line, leading to a
degradation of the use experience.
it's all physics :)
>>Why do you want users to turn CSS off?
> no no no, not at all. but i guess some people do turn css
> off, maybe for userbility reasons and _if_ they do turn it
> off our design must still be ok.
I absolutely agree here. See my comments about lynx (text browser) in
one of the prev email, where we need to add new lines to separate the
menu and the content.
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
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