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Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is...

 

 

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domm at zsi

Dec 29, 2001, 5:15 AM

Post #1 of 24 (3862 views)
Permalink
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is...

Hi!

On Sun, Dec 23, 2001 at 05:50:02PM -0500, Philip Mak wrote:
> A horizontal scrollbar appears at the bottom of the screen.
Yeah, we are still trying to figure out how to make the content area not so
big to force a scrollbar on users with low resolution, but still make it
span the whole browser window wher there is no content in the content area.

The problem is that when you specify width:400px and you have a big screen
resolution, you end up with a lot of white space on the right side. If you
don't specifiy a width, and there is no (or little) content, the content
area is smaller than on other pages.

See:
http://domm.zsi.at/modperl-site-domm/products/index.html

I added a <div style='width:600px'> (actually it's class='spacer'..), which
works for me (Mozilla / Opera on Linux), but Stas said it doesn't work for
him.

Jonathan M. Hollin suggested filling the content area with a lot of &nbsp;
which undoubtly works, but is IMO not that elegant.


> I have attached a screenshot from 800x600 resolution in Opera 6. (The same
> thing happens in Internet Explorer 5.5.)
On Mozilla (and Opera 5 BTW), the title bar ("Welcome to mod_perl") spans
the whole content area, not just behind the letters. I thought that was a
Netscape 4.* CSS bug?

> I took a look at the style sheet
> (http://domm.zsi.at/modperl-site-domm/style.css) and changed a few numbers
> such that the left sidebar takes up less space, and made it so that the
> page is allowed to compress smaller such that it'll even fit in 640x480
Nice. I will use that!

> BTW, kudos to the designer on making that page without using <TABLE> tags
> (which prevent incremental rendering)! I've tried to figure out how to do
<flame>
IMO tables shouldn't be used for page layout. They just suck and are a
hopefully soon to be forgotten relict of mid/end 90ies HTML-"programming"
Just to bad that everyone seems to be using tables for what they weren't
inteded (including some HTML generating programs like Frontpage et.al.)
</flame>

> that myself before but didn't manage to do so for pages this complicated.
If you do page design only with style sheets, the page will look
strange/wrong on some browser without proper CSS support. So you'll need a
good browser (Mozilla/Opera) and basically forget about non standard
compliant browsers. Don't try to be cross-browser compatible, be standards
compatible (validator.w3.org is your friend..)!


> (If the person viewing the page doesn't have stylesheet support though,
> the sidebar will show up at the bottom of the page... Do we have any
That was actually intended by me, because when I use lynx I really hate to
scroll down 3 or 4 pages of NavBars before reaching the content.

> statistics on what percentage of people viewing the mod_perl website have
> user agents that don't do stylesheets, or Netscape with JavaScript off?)




--
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M_echanen | http://domm.zsi.at/d/d162.html |
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stas at stason

Dec 26, 2001, 5:34 AM

Post #2 of 24 (3778 views)
Permalink
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

Thomas Klausner wrote:

> Hi!
>
> On Sun, Dec 23, 2001 at 05:50:02PM -0500, Philip Mak wrote:
>
>>A horizontal scrollbar appears at the bottom of the screen.
>>
> Yeah, we are still trying to figure out how to make the content area not so
> big to force a scrollbar on users with low resolution, but still make it
> span the whole browser window wher there is no content in the content area.
>
> The problem is that when you specify width:400px and you have a big screen
> resolution, you end up with a lot of white space on the right side. If you
> don't specifiy a width, and there is no (or little) content, the content
> area is smaller than on other pages.
>
> See:
> http://domm.zsi.at/modperl-site-domm/products/index.html
>
> I added a <div style='width:600px'> (actually it's class='spacer'..), which
> works for me (Mozilla / Opera on Linux), but Stas said it doesn't work for
> him.


It does work for this page, but if I go to
http://domm.zsi.at/modperl-site-domm/contribute/index.html it's narrow
again. Aren't you using the same css file?


> Jonathan M. Hollin suggested filling the content area with a lot of &nbsp;
> which undoubtly works, but is IMO not that elegant.


but it's probably the best cross-platform/browser solution if we
consider the fact that some browsers don't support CSS. Isn't it?


>>I took a look at the style sheet
>>(http://domm.zsi.at/modperl-site-domm/style.css) and changed a few numbers
>>such that the left sidebar takes up less space, and made it so that the
>>page is allowed to compress smaller such that it'll even fit in 640x480
>>
> Nice. I will use that!


Seconded!



>>that myself before but didn't manage to do so for pages this complicated.
>>
> If you do page design only with style sheets, the page will look
> strange/wrong on some browser without proper CSS support. So you'll need a
> good browser (Mozilla/Opera) and basically forget about non standard
> compliant browsers. Don't try to be cross-browser compatible, be standards
> compatible (validator.w3.org is your friend..)!


but we have users of all kinds, and we probably don't want to cut those
off, right?


_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas [at] stason http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/


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pmak at animeglobe

Dec 26, 2001, 7:27 AM

Post #3 of 24 (3779 views)
Permalink
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

On Sat, 29 Dec 2001, Thomas Klausner wrote:

> The problem is that when you specify width:400px and you have a big screen
> resolution, you end up with a lot of white space on the right side. If you
> don't specifiy a width, and there is no (or little) content, the content
> area is smaller than on other pages.
>
> See:
> http://domm.zsi.at/modperl-site-domm/products/index.html
>
> I added a <div style='width:600px'>

This causes a horizontal scrollbar to appear in 800x600 resolution...

I think that about 50% of people have 800x600 screens so that 800x600 is
important; see http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2001/December/res.php which
is from a web counter service that has aggregate stats from all its
clients and uses JavaScript to detect the screen size.

> Jonathan M. Hollin suggested filling the content area with a lot of &nbsp;
> which undoubtly works, but is IMO not that elegant.

Something like "&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;" etc.? Well, it's invisible, and only
takes up a couple hundred bytes. It'll work, and no one will notice unless
they View Source. For the cost of only a few hundred bytes (more like <10
bytes if you're using mod_deflate/mod_gzip), I think that's a better
solution than forcing a specific width because that's going to
inconvenience the 640x480 (4%) browsers for sure.

I also have another idea: What if you add an <HR>? It blends in fairly
well just above "Welcome to mod_perl", and will automatically force the
box to be full width.


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stas at stason

Dec 26, 2001, 9:45 AM

Post #4 of 24 (3780 views)
Permalink
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

Thomas Klausner wrote:

> Hi!
>
> On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 08:34:50PM +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>>It does work for this page, but if I go to
>>http://domm.zsi.at/modperl-site-domm/contribute/index.html it's narrow
>>again. Aren't you using the same css file?
>>
> I looks fine for me:
> http://domm.zsi.at/modperl-site-domm/screenshot.png
> (Mozilla M18
> Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.9 i686; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001103
> )

Not for me:

Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.6) Gecko/20011012

mine is newer: 0.9.6, but the important engine is gecko which is much
never too.

>>>If you do page design only with style sheets, the page will look
>>>strange/wrong on some browser without proper CSS support. So you'll
need a
>>>good browser (Mozilla/Opera) and basically forget about non standard
>>>compliant browsers. Don't try to be cross-browser compatible, be
standards
>>>compatible (validator.w3.org is your friend..)!
>>>
>>but we have users of all kinds, and we probably don't want to cut those
>>off, right?
>>
> Definitly not. But I'd like to get a basic desing working (at least
on the
> browsers I have access to) and afterward try to resolve all problems
other
> users have with other browsers.

sounds good to me

> So i'd suggest we try to finish this design ASAP (IMO it looks quite nice
> right now, much better than all of the inital submissions), and than
either
> a) put it online and let other users comment on it
> or
> b) let other users comment on it and put it online afterward.

All those really interested in helping are listening right now, and can
chime in. So I say we go with a) and since we make it really easy to
change everything, we can fix things afterwards.

More issues:

* the copyright bar should go back to the
bottom, even if it fits nicely under the menu (there is no added value
to it). The 'ad' box should stay under the menu.

* is there any way we could make the << ^ >> standout? It'll help
location the navigation widgets a lot. And I guess the same for toc/top.
BTW, a few people said that only top or only toc should be there.

* The real documents should have their css spiced up, all black/white
text is hard to read. Can we put back the coloured H1-H6 and make the
<PRE></PRE> section use a different background? I don't remember where
I've seen a very good CSS for <PRE> sections. Remember that it should be
just a little bit greish, since people tend to print pages and then
they complain about abusing their printers' cartridges.

_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas [at] stason http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/



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lambretta at inet

Dec 26, 2001, 10:11 AM

Post #5 of 24 (3778 views)
Permalink
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

hi

i have a "fully" working version (read: the two first menu
items, 'about' and 'download') of my idea of thomas' design
that can be seen at:

http://www.bullitt.suite.dk/mod_perl_site/var_c/


it is unfortunately not <table>-less, but looks pretty ok on
the browsers i am currently near to in (800x600 and 1024x768).


i will comment further when i get a chance to get away from
christmas, sorry!


./allan

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lambretta at inet

Dec 26, 2001, 4:19 PM

Post #6 of 24 (3777 views)
Permalink
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

a few comments ...

Thomas Klausner wrote:

> <flame>
> IMO tables shouldn't be used for page layout. They just suck and are a
> hopefully soon to be forgotten relict of mid/end 90ies HTML-"programming"
> Just to bad that everyone seems to be using tables for what they weren't
> inteded (including some HTML generating programs like Frontpage et.al.)
> </flame>

well i basically agree, but i have _never_ seen a good
looking (just slightly complex) site that wasn't using tables.
from where i am standing (and i can see one or two customers
who wants pretty similar pages cross-browser/platform) i
cannot see html-tables going away (design wise) for a long
period of time - too bad, but that is just the way i see it
right now.


Philip Mak wrote:
> I think that about 50% of people have 800x600 screens so that 800x600 is
> important; see http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2001/December/res.php


... and about 3% use higher res than 1024x768 so why do we
bother so much about those - its not like they are unable
(or disabled) to actually view our content?


./allan

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lambretta at inet

Dec 26, 2001, 4:22 PM

Post #7 of 24 (3780 views)
Permalink
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

> * The real documents should have their css spiced up, all black/white
> text is hard to read. Can we put back the coloured H1-H6

do you mean colored text for h1-h6 instead of white?


> <PRE></PRE> section use a different background? I don't remember where
> I've seen a very good CSS for <PRE> sections. Remember that it should be
> just a little bit greish, since people tend to print pages and then
> they complain about abusing their printers' cartridges.


we have to be careful with netscape here. i think tags
should look like

<pre>some code stuff</pre>

and not (for instance)

<pre>

some code stuff
</pre>


./allan

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pmak at animeglobe

Dec 26, 2001, 5:03 PM

Post #8 of 24 (3779 views)
Permalink
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

Someone wrote:
> http://www.bullitt.suite.dk/mod_perl_site/var_c/

Looking at it on Windows 98, I think that the font is too small. That size
of font is more suitable for fine print. It would be cumbersome to read a
lot of text at that font size.


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stas at stason

Dec 26, 2001, 7:16 PM

Post #9 of 24 (3776 views)
Permalink
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

allan wrote:

>>* The real documents should have their css spiced up, all black/white
>>text is hard to read. Can we put back the coloured H1-H6
>>
>
> do you mean colored text for h1-h6 instead of white?


Like the guide does:
http://perl.apache.org/guide/config.html

Of course the color choice may be different, but I think I like having
the color. It makes the page merrier ;) What do you think?


>><PRE></PRE> section use a different background? I don't remember where
>>I've seen a very good CSS for <PRE> sections. Remember that it should be
>> just a little bit greish, since people tend to print pages and then
>>they complain about abusing their printers' cartridges.
>>
>
>
> we have to be careful with netscape here. i think tags
> should look like
>
> <pre>some code stuff</pre>
>
> and not (for instance)
>
> <pre>
>
> some code stuff
> </pre>

why? I'm talking about code sections which are exactly the second
option. In any case what's the problem?


_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas [at] stason http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/


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lambretta at inet

Dec 27, 2001, 6:35 AM

Post #10 of 24 (3778 views)
Permalink
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

Stas Bekman wrote:
>
> allan wrote:
>
> >>* The real documents should have their css spiced up, all black/white
> >>text is hard to read. Can we put back the coloured H1-H6
> >>
> >
> > do you mean colored text for h1-h6 instead of white?
>
> Like the guide does:
> http://perl.apache.org/guide/config.html
>
> Of course the color choice may be different, but I think I like having
> the color. It makes the page merrier ;) What do you think?

i think if we decide to keep what i call the ASF-colored
bar as background for the title-bar and perhaps TOC we shoud
stay with the white colored letters.
in my idea of the design the h1-h6 "headlines" that have no
colored background-bar are even already using the light
gray/blue (#828DA6) from that same scheme. perhaps not very
colorful but very ASF - and very cool :-)


> > we have to be careful with netscape here. i think tags
> > should look like
> >
> > <pre>some code stuff</pre>
> >
> > and not (for instance)
> >
> > <pre>
> >
> > some code stuff
> > </pre>
>
> why? I'm talking about code sections which are exactly the second
> option. In any case what's the problem?

oops i was too fast there, it wasn't so bad after a closer
look.
it seems we just have to keep the <pre> tags completely left
of the html file
and then only allow leading whitespace after the opening tag
take a look at (in various browsers)
http://www.bullitt.suite.dk/mod_perl_site/examples/code_ex/code_ex.html

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lambretta at inet

Dec 27, 2001, 6:41 AM

Post #11 of 24 (3782 views)
Permalink
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

Philip Mak wrote:
>
> Someone wrote:
> > http://www.bullitt.suite.dk/mod_perl_site/var_c/
>
> Looking at it on Windows 98, I think that the font is too small. That size
> of font is more suitable for fine print. It would be cumbersome to read a
> lot of text at that font size.

i guess it is mostly the basefont in the content area, right?
i regrettly did change the stylesheet to use "exact"
font-sizes (px instead of em).
could i possibly ask you to take a screenshot, since im not
near any windows platform at the moment .. and/or possibly
change the stylesheet suitably for win 98?

thanks
allan

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stas at stason

Dec 27, 2001, 7:33 AM

Post #12 of 24 (3779 views)
Permalink
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

allan wrote:

> Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>>allan wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>* The real documents should have their css spiced up, all black/white
>>>>text is hard to read. Can we put back the coloured H1-H6
>>>>
>>>>
>>>do you mean colored text for h1-h6 instead of white?
>>>
>>Like the guide does:
>>http://perl.apache.org/guide/config.html
>>
>>Of course the color choice may be different, but I think I like having
>>the color. It makes the page merrier ;) What do you think?
>>
>
> i think if we decide to keep - what i call the ASF-colored
> bar as background for the title-bar and perhaps TOC we shoud
> stay with the white colored letters.
> in my idea of the design the h1-h6 "headlines" that have no
> colored background-bar are even already using the light
> gray/blue (#828DA6) from that same scheme. perhaps not very
> colorful but very ASF - and very cool :-)


Can we see an example of what you are talking about?


>>>we have to be careful with netscape here. i think tags
>>>should look like
>>>
>>><pre>some code stuff</pre>
>>>
>>>and not (for instance)
>>>
>>><pre>
>>>
>>>some code stuff
>>></pre>
>>>
>>why? I'm talking about code sections which are exactly the second
>>option. In any case what's the problem?
>>
>
> oops i was too fast there, it wasn't so bad after a closer
> look.
> it seems we just have to keep the <pre> tags completely left
> of the html file
> and then only allow leading whitespace after the opening tag
> take a look at (in various browsers)
> http://www.bullitt.suite.dk/mod_perl_site/examples/code_ex/code_ex.html

Looks good. It's not about <pre> tags alignment, but the alignment of
the text inside <pre></pre>. So let the doc writers worry that they do a
proper spacing. That's not a design problem :)


_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas [at] stason http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/


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netmaster at digital-word

Dec 27, 2001, 7:42 AM

Post #13 of 24 (3778 views)
Permalink
RE: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

:: take a look at (in various browsers)
:: http://www.bullitt.suite.dk/mod_perl_site/examples/code_ex/co
de_ex.html

I like this - it's beginning to look really neat now. I still think the
left-hand column is too wide though...

Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/


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lambretta at inet

Dec 27, 2001, 8:16 AM

Post #14 of 24 (3777 views)
Permalink
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

Stas Bekman wrote:
>
> allan wrote:
> > i think if we decide to keep - what i call the ASF-colored
> > bar as background for the title-bar and perhaps TOC we shoud
> > stay with the white colored letters.
> > in my idea of the design the h1-h6 "headlines" that have no
> > colored background-bar are even already using the light
> > gray/blue (#828DA6) from that same scheme. perhaps not very
> > colorful but very ASF - and very cool :-)
>
> Can we see an example of what you are talking about?

yes, on the content area of this page

http://www.bullitt.suite.dk/mod_perl_site/var_d/download/binaries.html


first a breadcrumb (home/download/)
then follows a titlebar (ASF-background, white lettering)
then follows a in-document navigation widget (ASF-colors)
then follows anoher titlebar (Table of contens, named
"Index" here, but again ASF-background, white lettering)
if i click on the link called Description i get to a
"headline" called Description. this headline has a white
background and #828DA6-colored lettering.

> Looks good. It's not about <pre> tags alignment, but the alignment of
> the text inside <pre></pre>. So let the doc writers worry that they do a
> proper spacing. That's not a design problem :)

ok

./allan

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pmak at animeglobe

Dec 27, 2001, 9:05 AM

Post #15 of 24 (3782 views)
Permalink
RE: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

On Thu, 27 Dec 2001, Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:

> :: take a look at (in various browsers)
> :: http://www.bullitt.suite.dk/mod_perl_site/examples/code_ex/co
> de_ex.html
>
> I like this - it's beginning to look really neat now. I still think the
> left-hand column is too wide though...

Agreed, and the font also looks too small in Windows.

BTW, "Guess who's comming to dinner" is misspelled.
^^^^^^^


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stas at stason

Dec 27, 2001, 9:46 AM

Post #16 of 24 (3790 views)
Permalink
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

allan wrote:

> Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>>allan wrote:
>>
>>>i think if we decide to keep - what i call the ASF-colored
>>>bar as background for the title-bar and perhaps TOC we shoud
>>>stay with the white colored letters.
>>>in my idea of the design the h1-h6 "headlines" that have no
>>>colored background-bar are even already using the light
>>>gray/blue (#828DA6) from that same scheme. perhaps not very
>>>colorful but very ASF - and very cool :-)
>>>
>>Can we see an example of what you are talking about?
>>
>
> yes, on the content area of this page
>
> http://www.bullitt.suite.dk/mod_perl_site/var_d/download/binaries.html
>
>
> first a breadcrumb (home/download/)
> then follows a titlebar (ASF-background, white lettering)
> then follows a in-document navigation widget (ASF-colors)
> then follows anoher titlebar (Table of contens, named
> "Index" here, but again ASF-background, white lettering)
> if i click on the link called Description i get to a
> "headline" called Description. this headline has a white
> background and #828DA6-colored lettering.


looks good, Allan. I still didn't see other different pages, with more
content, almost no content at all. I guess this is still a manualy done
page, so it's probably not easy to show other pages.

comments:

* s/Index/Table of Contents/. 'Index' is what you have at the end of the
book, not the beginning. Am I wrong? And I still think that [TOC | TOP]
should be dressed similar to the [<|^|>] bar, like you had in the
original design.

* It's not clear that the breadcrumb (home/download/) is a navigation
element. IMHO, making it into a colored bar will help those who aren't
used to the site yet. This can be a very light grey, but I don't think
transparency is good here.

* I cannot judge the font selection for other browsers, but on
linux/mozilla Thomas' fonts selection is much easier to read than yours.
Any reason for picking this particular font?

* Thomas' menu fonts are narrower - the menu takes less horizontal space.

* I like Thomas' logo better, it's giving light. Can we use it?

* Also would like to have the bottom bar for TM/change date/other stuff.
What do you think? The "Use of the Camel for Perl is a trademark of
O'Reilly & Associates, and is used by permission" clearly doesn't belong
to the content box. So it's better to go to the bottom, something
similar to what I've place in the boilerplate:
http://www.apache.org/~stas/site/boilerplate/ I do want to put TT2 logo
there. And may be more things in the future.

Overall it seems that we are getting close to something very good. Good
work folks!


Me working on porting the content, so once we have the design ready we
can go to a preview stage with the real content.

p.s. I cannot remember where I've seen realy nice CSS for making <pre>
sections look very neat :( May be we should use this approach?
http://www.devshed.com/Server_Side/Administration/MoreApache/MoreApache1/page3.html
I think it's too noisy.

_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas [at] stason http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/


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lambretta at inet

Dec 27, 2001, 10:29 AM

Post #17 of 24 (3780 views)
Permalink
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

hi again

> looks good, Allan. I still didn't see other different pages, with more
> content, almost no content at all. I guess this is still a manualy done
> page, so it's probably not easy to show other pages.

yes, please have in mind that currently all i can show has
to be done manually, sorry.


> comments:
>
> * s/Index/Table of Contents/. 'Index' is what you have at the end of the
> book, not the beginning. Am I wrong?

correct, but i just liked to have another word than Table of
Contents like the index-pages also have ...

>
> * It's not clear that the breadcrumb (home/download/) is a navigation
> element. IMHO, making it into a colored bar will help those who aren't
> used to the site yet. This can be a very light grey, but I don't think
> transparency is good here.

i agree i will look at it ...


> * I cannot judge the font selection for other browsers, but on
> linux/mozilla Thomas' fonts selection is much easier to read than yours.
> Any reason for picking this particular font?

well i like it, i will upload a larger version (same font)
later ...


> * Thomas' menu fonts are narrower - the menu takes less horizontal space.


i have one coming approx same size ...


> * I like Thomas' logo better, it's giving light. Can we use it?


i never did like that original logo, though i agree it gives
some light.



> * Also would like to have the bottom bar for TM/change date/other stuff.
> What do you think? The "Use of the Camel for Perl is a trademark of
> O'Reilly & Associates, and is used by permission" clearly doesn't belong
> to the content box. So it's better to go to the bottom, something
> similar to what I've place in the boilerplate:
> http://www.apache.org/~stas/site/boilerplate/ I do want to put TT2 logo
> there. And may be more things in the future.

ok, like in thomas current design i reckon?

./allan

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stas at stason

Dec 27, 2001, 10:52 AM

Post #18 of 24 (3784 views)
Permalink
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

>>* I like Thomas' logo better, it's giving light. Can we use it?
>>
>
>
> i never did like that original logo, though i agree it gives
> some light.


Well come up with a new one if you can :) Seriously.


>>* Also would like to have the bottom bar for TM/change date/other stuff.
>> What do you think? The "Use of the Camel for Perl is a trademark of
>>O'Reilly & Associates, and is used by permission" clearly doesn't belong
>>to the content box. So it's better to go to the bottom, something
>>similar to what I've place in the boilerplate:
>>http://www.apache.org/~stas/site/boilerplate/ I do want to put TT2 logo
>>there. And may be more things in the future.
>>
>
> ok, like in thomas current design i reckon?

His latest URL, yes.

_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas [at] stason http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/


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netmaster at digital-word

Dec 27, 2001, 11:11 AM

Post #19 of 24 (3780 views)
Permalink
RE: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

:: > i never did like that original logo, though i agree it gives some
:: > light.
::
::
:: Well come up with a new one if you can :) Seriously.

+1

I would love to see a new mod_perl logo - something that conveys its
elegance, power and speed. What a shame I'm a bad designer... What a
shame MySQL got the dolphin first! :-)

A decent logo is long overdue and the introduction of such with mod_perl
2.0 would be superb.

Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/


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lambretta at inet

Dec 27, 2001, 11:35 AM

Post #20 of 24 (3786 views)
Permalink
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

"Jonathan M. Hollin" wrote:
>
> :: > i never did like that original logo, though i agree it gives some
> :: > light.
> ::
> ::
> :: Well come up with a new one if you can :) Seriously.
>
> +1
+1


> I would love to see a new mod_perl logo - something that conveys its
> elegance, power and speed. What a shame I'm a bad designer... What a
> shame MySQL got the dolphin first! :-)

...and someone got the dolphin before them, though i dont
recall who.
but we have the wonderful camel so we have power and
elegance :)
as for speed, hmm ...

./allan

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netmaster at digital-word

Dec 27, 2001, 11:45 AM

Post #21 of 24 (3783 views)
Permalink
RE: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

:: ...and someone got the dolphin before them, though i dont
:: recall who. but we have the wonderful camel so we have power
:: and elegance :) as for speed, hmm ...

Hmm... Difficult to illustrate a fast camel...

Anyhow the camel is Perl - the EAGLE should be our starting point yes?

Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/


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stas at stason

Dec 27, 2001, 7:16 PM

Post #22 of 24 (3778 views)
Permalink
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

Jonathan M. Hollin wrote:

> :: ...and someone got the dolphin before them, though i dont
> :: recall who. but we have the wonderful camel so we have power
> :: and elegance :) as for speed, hmm ...
>
> Hmm... Difficult to illustrate a fast camel...
>
> Anyhow the camel is Perl - the EAGLE should be our starting point yes?


If you put a turtle on the rocket, it's going to be be not that slow isn't it? So we have a perfect match, put the camel on the eagle?



_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas [at] stason http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/


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netmaster at digital-word

Dec 28, 2001, 4:20 AM

Post #23 of 24 (3776 views)
Permalink
RE: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

:: If you put a turtle on the rocket, it's going to be be not
:: that slow isn't it? So we have a perfect match, put the
:: camel on the eagle?

Slight problem with scale me-thinks. :-)

There must be some way to combine the two though (I think).

Jonathan M. Hollin - WYPUG Co-ordinator
West Yorkshire Perl User Group
http://wypug.pm.org/


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domm at zsi

Dec 29, 2001, 7:11 AM

Post #24 of 24 (3778 views)
Permalink
Re: [modperl site design challenge] and the winner is... [In reply to]

Hi!

On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 08:34:50PM +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
> It does work for this page, but if I go to
> http://domm.zsi.at/modperl-site-domm/contribute/index.html it's narrow
> again. Aren't you using the same css file?
I looks fine for me:
http://domm.zsi.at/modperl-site-domm/screenshot.png
(Mozilla M18
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.4.9 i686; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001103
)

> > > Jonathan M. Hollin suggested filling the content area with a lot of &nbsp;> > Jonathan M. Hollin suggested filling the content area with a lot of &nbsp;> > Jonathan M. Hollin suggested filling the content area with a lot of &nbsp;> > Jonathan M. Hollin suggested filling the content area with a lot of &nbsp;
> > which undoubtly works, but is IMO not that elegant.
> but it's probably the best cross-platform/browser solution if we
> consider the fact that some browsers don't support CSS. Isn't it?
It is. I just wanted to try if a (IMO) more elegant solution would work.
Obviously it doesn't, so I will use Jonathan's method.

> > Nice. I will use that!
> Seconded!
It's online already.

> > If you do page design only with style sheets, the page will look
> > strange/wrong on some browser without proper CSS support. So you'll need a
> > good browser (Mozilla/Opera) and basically forget about non standard
> > compliant browsers. Don't try to be cross-browser compatible, be standards
> > compatible (validator.w3.org is your friend..)!
> but we have users of all kinds, and we probably don't want to cut those
> off, right?
Definitly not. But I'd like to get a basic desing working (at least on the
browsers I have access to) and afterward try to resolve all problems other
users have with other browsers.

So i'd suggest we try to finish this design ASAP (IMO it looks quite nice
right now, much better than all of the inital submissions), and than either
a) put it online and let other users comment on it
or
b) let other users comment on it and put it online afterward.



--
D_OMM +----> http://domm.zsi.at <-----+
O_xyderkes | neu: Arbeitsplatz |
M_echanen | http://domm.zsi.at/d/d162.html |
M_asteuei +--------------------------------+



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