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Re: perl at apachecon

 

 

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adam.prime at utoronto

Apr 2, 2008, 10:46 AM

Post #1 of 3 (4398 views)
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Re: perl at apachecon

Quoting Geoffrey Young <geoff [at] modperlcookbook>:

> hi all :)
>
> perl's (and mod_perl's) presence at apachecon has been dwindling over
> the years. I won't get into a rant about why this might be, so please
> don't you do it either :)
>

(I'm CC'ing this to advocacy, in case anyone else is interested)

I'm interested in hearing the rant (and any associated rants), and
especially interested in hearing ideas about what could be done to
fix, or at least adapt to the situation. I was thinking about this a
little bit this morning after seeing a post on perlbuzz about how the
perl track at OSCON actually has twice as many talks as it did the
year before (though it's still a far cry from it's TPC days).

I've been to two apachecon's (vegas and austin) but last year the
content in atlanta was underwhelming to me. I instead chose to go to
the pittsburgh perl workshop, which though it didn't have much (or
even any) truly mod_perl content, the general perl content was good,
and the conference was dirt cheap (70USD IIRC).

I recently did a little bit of research for Richard Dice on perl
conferences and i was somewhat shocked to find out what they've got
going on in Europe. They have upwards of 8 workshop style events,
many of which are multiple days all over Europe. In addition to
YAPC::EU.

I wonder if there would be enough interest in a workshop style event
that was focused on mod_perl, or perl and websites to make it worth
while. I wonder why people don't go to ApacheCon, or don't submit
sessions to ApacheCon (which both seem to go hand in hand). If
ApacheCon isn't serving the needs of the mod_perl community
effectively, then maybe (if there's interest) the community should
start serving itself.

Adam





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fred at taperfriendlymusic

Apr 2, 2008, 12:40 PM

Post #2 of 3 (4160 views)
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Re: perl at apachecon [In reply to]

adam.prime [at] utoronto wrote:
> Quoting Geoffrey Young <geoff [at] modperlcookbook>:
>
>> hi all :)
>>
>> perl's (and mod_perl's) presence at apachecon has been dwindling over
>> the years. I won't get into a rant about why this might be, so please
>> don't you do it either :)
>>
>
> (I'm CC'ing this to advocacy, in case anyone else is interested)
>
> I'm interested in hearing the rant (and any associated rants), and

I'll offer some thoughts here but am focusing on intelligent discourse
rather than ranting :)

> especially interested in hearing ideas about what could be done to fix,
> or at least adapt to the situation. I was thinking about this a little

Spend time developing mod_perl related talks and submit them to events.
I spent a lot of time developing talks for smaller workshops first,
and am now submitting those talks to larger events such as OSCON and
ApacheCon.

> bit this morning after seeing a post on perlbuzz about how the perl
> track at OSCON actually has twice as many talks as it did the year
> before (though it's still a far cry from it's TPC days).
>
> I've been to two apachecon's (vegas and austin) but last year the
> content in atlanta was underwhelming to me. I instead chose to go to
> the pittsburgh perl workshop, which though it didn't have much (or even
> any) truly mod_perl content, the general perl content was good, and the
> conference was dirt cheap (70USD IIRC).
>
> I recently did a little bit of research for Richard Dice on perl
> conferences and i was somewhat shocked to find out what they've got
> going on in Europe. They have upwards of 8 workshop style events, many
> of which are multiple days all over Europe. In addition to YAPC::EU.

Europe has a decided advantage in that the concentration of users is
over a smaller area than the US (making a generalization here, but one I
think that is reasonable). Flying from one end of North America to the
other is more costly and time consuming than flying from one end of
Europe to the other, so I think that may be a factor.

> I wonder if there would be enough interest in a workshop style event
> that was focused on mod_perl, or perl and websites to make it worth
> while. I wonder why people don't go to ApacheCon,

It's expensive. I paid for myself last year and slept on a couch at a
friend's place, and it was still a lot of money (even with my committer
discount) My employer paid the year before, which was great, but I got
a lucky break in that instance :)

The big conferences are for profit events, and most attendees rely on
employers footing the bill for their employees. I've dropped about four
grand out of pocket in the past two years on conferences, I was lucky
enough to have a well paying job but unfortunately the employer wouldn't
pay for conferences on those occasions.

> or don't submit
> sessions to ApacheCon (which both seem to go hand in hand). If

Submitted two talks last year (none accepted), two talks this year
(fingers crossed) :)

> ApacheCon isn't serving the needs of the mod_perl community effectively,
> then maybe (if there's interest) the community should start serving itself.

I've often thought that it would be cool to have a mod_perl
conference/workshop, but the mod_perl community is a subset of both the
Perl and Apache communities, so it seems like the audience is more
limited than it would be at ApacheCon or YAPC. It is generally a lot
easier to encourage and facilitate mod_perl user attendance at an
existing event rather than putting on a separate event.

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adam.prime at utoronto

Apr 2, 2008, 1:46 PM

Post #3 of 3 (4167 views)
Permalink
Re: perl at apachecon [In reply to]

Quoting Fred Moyer <fred [at] taperfriendlymusic>:
>
> Spend time developing mod_perl related talks and submit them to events.
> I spent a lot of time developing talks for smaller workshops first,
> and am now submitting those talks to larger events such as OSCON and
> ApacheCon.

I guess i wonder how you encourage people to do that sort of stuff
though. How do you help get people out of the audience, and up at the
mic?

> Europe has a decided advantage in that the concentration of users is
> over a smaller area than the US (making a generalization here, but one
> I think that is reasonable). Flying from one end of North America to
> the other is more costly and time consuming than flying from one end of
> Europe to the other, so I think that may be a factor.

Most of the European workshops are very regionalized, and many of them
have preference for the local language as well (see:
http://www.yapceurope.org/workshops.html ). So i'm not sure how many
people are really flying around Europe to go to the workshop or not,
that'd be something that would have to be asked of the organizers. In
North America though, it's definitely an issue.

> It's expensive. I paid for myself last year and slept on a couch at a
> friend's place, and it was still a lot of money (even with my committer
> discount) My employer paid the year before, which was great, but I got
> a lucky break in that instance :)
>
> The big conferences are for profit events, and most attendees rely on
> employers footing the bill for their employees. I've dropped about
> four grand out of pocket in the past two years on conferences, I was
> lucky enough to have a well paying job but unfortunately the employer
> wouldn't pay for conferences on those occasions.

I wonder if the cost of the registration was less significant if that
would encourage more people to participate.

> I've often thought that it would be cool to have a mod_perl
> conference/workshop, but the mod_perl community is a subset of both the
> Perl and Apache communities, so it seems like the audience is more
> limited than it would be at ApacheCon or YAPC. It is generally a lot
> easier to encourage and facilitate mod_perl user attendance at an
> existing event rather than putting on a separate event.

The other bonus of just getting more people to submit talks for YAPC
is that it gives puts people in front of people that might not really
know anything about mod_perl, so an opportunity to educate people
about it, and maybe bring in users.

mod_perl is such a powerful tool, and it seems like so few people even
scratch the surface of what it can do. I'd love to see projects
coming out that were authentication agnostic, so you could just plug
in whatever auth you want and drop say a forum, or a blog, into an
existing site with huge userbase with a minimum of fuss. PHP has tons
of application level stuff, but none of them integrate (in a single
sign on sense) with each other without huge headaches. this seems
like something that could be done easily, and well in mod_perl. but i
digress...

Adam



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