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Google Maps Navigation takes a mobile turn

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wolfmane at gmail

Oct 28, 2009, 9:10 PM

Post #1 of 9 (1493 views)
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Google Maps Navigation takes a mobile turn

http://news.cnet.com/8301-30684_3-10384544-265.html?tag=nl.e703

Finally, a navigation solution for handhelds that really works. As soon
as T-Mobile comes out with an Android 2.0 phone that I like, it's
sayonara to the piece of crap TomTom I bought a couple of months ago
(I'm on the third unit with a defective battery and am not going to
bother sending this one in - I'll replace the battery myself - but
that's just scratching the surface of all the horrible design problems.
I incorrectly assumed that TomTom had been around long enough to figure
out how to make a gpsr, but I should have stuck with Garmin) as well as
my Nokia tablet that never really did anything well and is now dying an
ugly death due to corrupt and probably failing internal flash memory.

Maybe this will force the standalone gps manufacturers to bring the map
update prices down to something approaching reasonable. Or even run them
all out of business, which they so richly deserve after all these years
of highway robbery. 95% of the map data they get for free from
governments and other free and public sources, at least 4% of it is
corrections from their own consumers who have paid dearly for maps, and
_maybe_ 1% of it is obtained in-house. And since at least 95% of any
given map update is identical to the old map, it's absurd to assert that
they have any real financial investment in it. It's a racket very like
the printer manufacturers who sell some printers near and sometimes even
below cost, but make such extremely high profit margins on the ink and
toner that they could give the printers away for free and it wouldn't
make any difference. Can you say "at least 6000% profit"?!?!? (Except
the GPS manufacturers are making a very healthy profit on the hardware
as well.)

Mark
_______________________________________________
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maemo-users [at] maemo
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

ktneely at astroturfgarden

Oct 29, 2009, 10:54 AM

Post #2 of 9 (1402 views)
Permalink

Re: Google Maps Navigation takes a mobile turn [In reply to]

That really works? I've been rocking mobile navigation for a couple years
with Ovi Maps (formerly Nokia Maps), and more recently waze. The first is
excellent, the latter very promising.

I understand that Ovi Maps is not quite ready for primetime on the N900.
Maybe one of the reasons they postponed the launch?

K

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 9:10 PM, Mark Haury <wolfmane [at] gmail> wrote:

> http://news.cnet.com/8301-30684_3-10384544-265.html?tag=nl.e703
>
> Finally, a navigation solution for handhelds that really works. As soon
> as T-Mobile comes out with an Android 2.0 phone that I like, it's
> sayonara to the piece of crap TomTom I bought a couple of months ago
> (I'm on the third unit with a defective battery and am not going to
> bother sending this one in - I'll replace the battery myself - but
> that's just scratching the surface of all the horrible design problems.
> I incorrectly assumed that TomTom had been around long enough to figure
> out how to make a gpsr, but I should have stuck with Garmin) as well as
> my Nokia tablet that never really did anything well and is now dying an
> ugly death due to corrupt and probably failing internal flash memory.
>
> Maybe this will force the standalone gps manufacturers to bring the map
> update prices down to something approaching reasonable. Or even run them
> all out of business, which they so richly deserve after all these years
> of highway robbery. 95% of the map data they get for free from
> governments and other free and public sources, at least 4% of it is
> corrections from their own consumers who have paid dearly for maps, and
> _maybe_ 1% of it is obtained in-house. And since at least 95% of any
> given map update is identical to the old map, it's absurd to assert that
> they have any real financial investment in it. It's a racket very like
> the printer manufacturers who sell some printers near and sometimes even
> below cost, but make such extremely high profit margins on the ink and
> toner that they could give the printers away for free and it wouldn't
> make any difference. Can you say "at least 6000% profit"?!?!? (Except
> the GPS manufacturers are making a very healthy profit on the hardware
> as well.)
>
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-users mailing list
> maemo-users [at] maemo
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
>

--
In Vino Veritas
http://rubbernecking.info

wolfmane at gmail

Oct 29, 2009, 12:13 PM

Post #3 of 9 (1412 views)
Permalink

Re: Google Maps Navigation takes a mobile turn [In reply to]

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Kevin T. Neely
<ktneely [at] astroturfgarden> wrote:
> That really works? I've been rocking mobile navigation for a couple years
> with Ovi Maps (formerly Nokia Maps), and more recently waze. The first is
> excellent, the latter very promising.
>
> I understand that Ovi Maps is not quite ready for primetime on the N900.
> Maybe one of the reasons they postponed the launch?
>
> K
>

The Wayfinder Map app that came on the N8x0 is excruciatingly painful
to use for actual navigation. The map data (at least in my area of the
USA) is extremely out of date, and the POI database is severely
lacking. You can't load the whole country at once, only the western or
eastern half, and if you're traveling across the dividing line it
couldn't be any less user-friendly. You can't have more than one map
active at a time, so even though you can add maps at will, navigating
between any two of them is impossible. Trying to enter a destination
is an exercise in futility. If you manually pan the map and place a
"favorite" and use that for your destination the directions are pretty
good and the voice prompts are excellent, but there are so many
obstacles to getting to that point that the app is pretty much useless
for anything but showing you where you currently are. Plus, the app as
shipped is crippled to only show your current location - if you want
navigation you have to pay as much as a whole standalone navigation
device, but you don't get the stability or any of the other strengths
of the standalone devices. All of the other "navigation" apps for the
tablets are works in progress and none of them natively do routing.
Navit claims to, but if it does they've certainly hidden that
functionality well. RoadMap does rudimentary routing, but you have to
create the route manually. If you can't do routing, then you can't do
navigation...

Neither Ovi nor waze is available for the tablets, and if Ovi is the
phone version of the tablet Map app that it appears to be, I'm less
than impressed. You do have to pay extra to get navigation and it more
than likely uses the same map data. Waze does indeed seem very
promising, but again they are duplicating much of what OpenStreetMap
has been working on for years, and everybody would benefit much more
if they would integrate their technology with OSM instead of striking
out on their own. OSM already has a huge amount of map data, but the
user interface is a PITA and they would greatly benefit from an app
exactly like waze.

I don't own a smartphone, but Android 2.0 may be what changes my mind
on the matter. Even if I could afford an N900 I wouldn't risk it at
this point. Maybe if they are still being produced and supported in 2
or 3 years I'll consider it. My mobile mapping experience thus far has
been with PDA, Tablet and Laptop map/navigation software, and I have
yet to find an application - even the expensive ones - for any of
those that is in the same league as even the worst standalone GPSr.
The usability of even my piece of junk TomTom is light years beyond
anything I've tried that wasn't a dedicated unit.

Mark
_______________________________________________
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users [at] maemo
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

ktneely at astroturfgarden

Oct 29, 2009, 12:27 PM

Post #4 of 9 (1398 views)
Permalink

Re: Google Maps Navigation takes a mobile turn [In reply to]

Ovi Maps uses Navteq maps. The engine is different from the mapping
application on the N8x0 series tablets.

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Mark <wolfmane [at] gmail> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Kevin T. Neely
> <ktneely [at] astroturfgarden> wrote:
> > That really works? I've been rocking mobile navigation for a couple
> years
> > with Ovi Maps (formerly Nokia Maps), and more recently waze. The first
> is
> > excellent, the latter very promising.
> >
> > I understand that Ovi Maps is not quite ready for primetime on the N900.
> > Maybe one of the reasons they postponed the launch?
> >
> > K
> >
>
> The Wayfinder Map app that came on the N8x0 is excruciatingly painful
> to use for actual navigation. The map data (at least in my area of the
> USA) is extremely out of date, and the POI database is severely
> lacking. You can't load the whole country at once, only the western or
> eastern half, and if you're traveling across the dividing line it
> couldn't be any less user-friendly. You can't have more than one map
> active at a time, so even though you can add maps at will, navigating
> between any two of them is impossible. Trying to enter a destination
> is an exercise in futility. If you manually pan the map and place a
> "favorite" and use that for your destination the directions are pretty
> good and the voice prompts are excellent, but there are so many
> obstacles to getting to that point that the app is pretty much useless
> for anything but showing you where you currently are. Plus, the app as
> shipped is crippled to only show your current location - if you want
> navigation you have to pay as much as a whole standalone navigation
> device, but you don't get the stability or any of the other strengths
> of the standalone devices. All of the other "navigation" apps for the
> tablets are works in progress and none of them natively do routing.
> Navit claims to, but if it does they've certainly hidden that
> functionality well. RoadMap does rudimentary routing, but you have to
> create the route manually. If you can't do routing, then you can't do
> navigation...
>
> Neither Ovi nor waze is available for the tablets, and if Ovi is the
> phone version of the tablet Map app that it appears to be, I'm less
> than impressed. You do have to pay extra to get navigation and it more
> than likely uses the same map data. Waze does indeed seem very
> promising, but again they are duplicating much of what OpenStreetMap
> has been working on for years, and everybody would benefit much more
> if they would integrate their technology with OSM instead of striking
> out on their own. OSM already has a huge amount of map data, but the
> user interface is a PITA and they would greatly benefit from an app
> exactly like waze.
>
> I don't own a smartphone, but Android 2.0 may be what changes my mind
> on the matter. Even if I could afford an N900 I wouldn't risk it at
> this point. Maybe if they are still being produced and supported in 2
> or 3 years I'll consider it. My mobile mapping experience thus far has
> been with PDA, Tablet and Laptop map/navigation software, and I have
> yet to find an application - even the expensive ones - for any of
> those that is in the same league as even the worst standalone GPSr.
> The usability of even my piece of junk TomTom is light years beyond
> anything I've tried that wasn't a dedicated unit.
>
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-users mailing list
> maemo-users [at] maemo
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
>

--
In Vino Veritas
http://rubbernecking.info

gary at eyetraxx

Oct 29, 2009, 12:39 PM

Post #5 of 9 (1407 views)
Permalink

Re: Google Maps Navigation takes a mobile turn [In reply to]

<midoscentavos>
Maps and navigation aside, who originally published android.img.bz2 and
android-installer.deb? More importantly, I wonder if Nokia's considered
releasing and Android 2.0 version of the N900 but if not, how about the
original Android porters? Everyone and their brother's cousin is jumping
off the Windows Mobile ship and on to the Android platform for a
multitude of reasons. In short they are 1) Windows Mobile is still
Windows, 2) iPhone and WebOS are not available, and 3) they want an
iPhone killer. Bottom line; competition and choice are good things.
</midoscentavos>
_______________________________________________
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users [at] maemo
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

wolfmane at gmail

Oct 30, 2009, 10:02 PM

Post #6 of 9 (1374 views)
Permalink

Re: Google Maps Navigation takes a mobile turn [In reply to]

Apparently many think that Ovi Maps is just as bad as the tablet version...

http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2009/10/ovi-maps-really-is-this-best-we-can-do.html

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Kevin T. Neely
<ktneely [at] astroturfgarden> wrote:
> Ovi Maps uses Navteq maps. The engine is different from the mapping
> application on the N8x0 series tablets.
>
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Mark <wolfmane [at] gmail> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Kevin T. Neely
>> <ktneely [at] astroturfgarden> wrote:
>> > That really works? I've been rocking mobile navigation for a couple
>> > years
>> > with Ovi Maps (formerly Nokia Maps), and more recently waze. The first
>> > is
>> > excellent, the latter very promising.
>> >
>> > I understand that Ovi Maps is not quite ready for primetime on the N900.
>> > Maybe one of the reasons they postponed the launch?
>> >
>> > K
>> >
>>
>> The Wayfinder Map app that came on the N8x0 is excruciatingly painful
>> to use for actual navigation. The map data (at least in my area of the
>> USA) is extremely out of date, and the POI database is severely
>> lacking. You can't load the whole country at once, only the western or
>> eastern half, and if you're traveling across the dividing line it
>> couldn't be any less user-friendly. You can't have more than one map
>> active at a time, so even though you can add maps at will, navigating
>> between any two of them is impossible. Trying to enter a destination
>> is an exercise in futility. If you manually pan the map and place a
>> "favorite" and use that for your destination the directions are pretty
>> good and the voice prompts are excellent, but there are so many
>> obstacles to getting to that point that the app is pretty much useless
>> for anything but showing you where you currently are. Plus, the app as
>> shipped is crippled to only show your current location - if you want
>> navigation you have to pay as much as a whole standalone navigation
>> device, but you don't get the stability or any of the other strengths
>> of the standalone devices. All of the other "navigation" apps for the
>> tablets are works in progress and none of them natively do routing.
>> Navit claims to, but if it does they've certainly hidden that
>> functionality well. RoadMap does rudimentary routing, but you have to
>> create the route manually. If you can't do routing, then you can't do
>> navigation...
>>
>> Neither Ovi nor waze is available for the tablets, and if Ovi is the
>> phone version of the tablet Map app that it appears to be, I'm less
>> than impressed. You do have to pay extra to get navigation and it more
>> than likely uses the same map data. Waze does indeed seem very
>> promising, but again they are duplicating much of what OpenStreetMap
>> has been working on for years, and everybody would benefit much more
>> if they would integrate their technology with OSM instead of striking
>> out on their own. OSM already has a huge amount of map data, but the
>> user interface is a PITA and they would greatly benefit from an app
>> exactly like waze.
>>
>> I don't own a smartphone, but Android 2.0 may be what changes my mind
>> on the matter. Even if I could afford an N900 I wouldn't risk it at
>> this point. Maybe if they are still being produced and supported in 2
>> or 3 years I'll consider it. My mobile mapping experience thus far has
>> been with PDA, Tablet and Laptop map/navigation software, and I have
>> yet to find an application - even the expensive ones - for any of
>> those that is in the same league as even the worst standalone GPSr.
>> The usability of even my piece of junk TomTom is light years beyond
>> anything I've tried that wasn't a dedicated unit.
>>
>> Mark
>> _______________________________________________
>> maemo-users mailing list
>> maemo-users [at] maemo
>> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
>
>
>
> --
> In Vino Veritas
> http://rubbernecking.info
>
_______________________________________________
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users [at] maemo
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

ktneely at astroturfgarden

Oct 30, 2009, 10:56 PM

Post #7 of 9 (1386 views)
Permalink

Re: Google Maps Navigation takes a mobile turn [In reply to]

I find Ovi Maps on S60 to be a great program and it's a must-have for me.
Like I posted earlier, I read somewhere that the Maemo version is not ready
yet. I suspect it is a big part of why the N900 was delayed, though I have
no direct knowledge of that.

K

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Mark <wolfmane [at] gmail> wrote:

> Apparently many think that Ovi Maps is just as bad as the tablet version...
>
>
> http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2009/10/ovi-maps-really-is-this-best-we-can-do.html
>
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Kevin T. Neely
> <ktneely [at] astroturfgarden> wrote:
> > Ovi Maps uses Navteq maps. The engine is different from the mapping
> > application on the N8x0 series tablets.
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Mark <wolfmane [at] gmail> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Kevin T. Neely
> >> <ktneely [at] astroturfgarden> wrote:
> >> > That really works? I've been rocking mobile navigation for a couple
> >> > years
> >> > with Ovi Maps (formerly Nokia Maps), and more recently waze. The
> first
> >> > is
> >> > excellent, the latter very promising.
> >> >
> >> > I understand that Ovi Maps is not quite ready for primetime on the
> N900.
> >> > Maybe one of the reasons they postponed the launch?
> >> >
> >> > K
> >> >
> >>
> >> The Wayfinder Map app that came on the N8x0 is excruciatingly painful
> >> to use for actual navigation. The map data (at least in my area of the
> >> USA) is extremely out of date, and the POI database is severely
> >> lacking. You can't load the whole country at once, only the western or
> >> eastern half, and if you're traveling across the dividing line it
> >> couldn't be any less user-friendly. You can't have more than one map
> >> active at a time, so even though you can add maps at will, navigating
> >> between any two of them is impossible. Trying to enter a destination
> >> is an exercise in futility. If you manually pan the map and place a
> >> "favorite" and use that for your destination the directions are pretty
> >> good and the voice prompts are excellent, but there are so many
> >> obstacles to getting to that point that the app is pretty much useless
> >> for anything but showing you where you currently are. Plus, the app as
> >> shipped is crippled to only show your current location - if you want
> >> navigation you have to pay as much as a whole standalone navigation
> >> device, but you don't get the stability or any of the other strengths
> >> of the standalone devices. All of the other "navigation" apps for the
> >> tablets are works in progress and none of them natively do routing.
> >> Navit claims to, but if it does they've certainly hidden that
> >> functionality well. RoadMap does rudimentary routing, but you have to
> >> create the route manually. If you can't do routing, then you can't do
> >> navigation...
> >>
> >> Neither Ovi nor waze is available for the tablets, and if Ovi is the
> >> phone version of the tablet Map app that it appears to be, I'm less
> >> than impressed. You do have to pay extra to get navigation and it more
> >> than likely uses the same map data. Waze does indeed seem very
> >> promising, but again they are duplicating much of what OpenStreetMap
> >> has been working on for years, and everybody would benefit much more
> >> if they would integrate their technology with OSM instead of striking
> >> out on their own. OSM already has a huge amount of map data, but the
> >> user interface is a PITA and they would greatly benefit from an app
> >> exactly like waze.
> >>
> >> I don't own a smartphone, but Android 2.0 may be what changes my mind
> >> on the matter. Even if I could afford an N900 I wouldn't risk it at
> >> this point. Maybe if they are still being produced and supported in 2
> >> or 3 years I'll consider it. My mobile mapping experience thus far has
> >> been with PDA, Tablet and Laptop map/navigation software, and I have
> >> yet to find an application - even the expensive ones - for any of
> >> those that is in the same league as even the worst standalone GPSr.
> >> The usability of even my piece of junk TomTom is light years beyond
> >> anything I've tried that wasn't a dedicated unit.
> >>
> >> Mark
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> maemo-users mailing list
> >> maemo-users [at] maemo
> >> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > In Vino Veritas
> > http://rubbernecking.info
> >
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-users mailing list
> maemo-users [at] maemo
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
>

--
In Vino Veritas
http://rubbernecking.info

gary at eyetraxx

Nov 3, 2009, 8:30 AM

Post #8 of 9 (1329 views)
Permalink

Re: Google Maps Navigation takes a mobile turn [In reply to]

Kevin T. Neely wrote:
> I find Ovi Maps on S60 to be a great program and it's a must-have for
> me. Like I posted earlier, I read somewhere that the Maemo version is
> not ready yet. I suspect it is a big part of why the N900 was
> delayed, though I have no direct knowledge of that.

They could be waiting for the latest iteration of some of their online
services. Or maybe the co-branded versions of them. q.v. this recent
interview with Nokia's VP of services, Niklas Savander:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-10387654-266.html

-Gary
_______________________________________________
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users [at] maemo
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

jholmblad at hotmail

Nov 9, 2009, 8:57 PM

Post #9 of 9 (1238 views)
Permalink

Re: Google Maps Navigation takes a mobile turn [In reply to]

Gary,

and speaking of which, i.e.

".............Everyone and their brother's cousin is jumping
off the Windows Mobile ship and on to the Android platform for a
multitude of reasons."

I did just that today by replacing my rusting Windows Mobile 5.x
handset with a Motorola (not HTC) Droid. With 20 minutes of use so far,
it looks quite promising. The GPS seems to work effortlessly, and, or
course, integrated somehow with Google maps. Now...........If I can just
find the icon to install a VNC server on it so I can get at it from my
desktop "KVM".

Best Regards,

John Holmblad

Acadia Secure Networks, LLC

* *

Gary wrote:
> <midoscentavos>
> Maps and navigation aside, who originally published android.img.bz2 and
> android-installer.deb? More importantly, I wonder if Nokia's considered
> releasing and Android 2.0 version of the N900 but if not, how about the
> original Android porters? Everyone and their brother's cousin is jumping
> off the Windows Mobile ship and on to the Android platform for a
> multitude of reasons. In short they are 1) Windows Mobile is still
> Windows, 2) iPhone and WebOS are not available, and 3) they want an
> iPhone killer. Bottom line; competition and choice are good things.
> </midoscentavos>
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-users mailing list
> maemo-users [at] maemo
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
maemo-users mailing list
maemo-users [at] maemo
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users

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