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N900 battery duration

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tuomas at kulve

Oct 17, 2009, 4:49 AM

Post #26 of 75 (4754 views)
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Re: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

Andrea Grandi wrote:

> Anyway, here is the result of powertop execution on my N900:
> http://pastebin.ca/1624111

In the PID activity list there are quite many "skyhost" prosesses, some
of which are quite active. Those may also keep the WLAN busy as the
wl12xx process is very active as well.

Skyhost seems to be a part of skype. Try disabling the Skype login and
see what the powertop says after that?

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felipe.contreras at gmail

Oct 17, 2009, 4:58 AM

Post #27 of 75 (4745 views)
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Re: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 10:18 PM, Andrea Grandi <a.grandi [at] gmail> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> 2009/10/16 Andrew Flegg <andrew [at] bleb>:
>> What widgets do you have on the desktop? RSS? Facebook? Foreca?
>
> I've Facebook, Calendar, Forecast and two shortcut to start Phone and Contacts.

Try removing the third party ones: facebook and forecast.

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a.grandi at gmail

Oct 17, 2009, 7:46 AM

Post #28 of 75 (4737 views)
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Re: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

Hi,

2009/10/17 Felipe Contreras <felipe.contreras [at] gmail>:
> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 10:18 PM, Andrea Grandi <a.grandi [at] gmail> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> 2009/10/16 Andrew Flegg <andrew [at] bleb>:
>>> What widgets do you have on the desktop? RSS? Facebook? Foreca?
>>
>> I've Facebook, Calendar, Forecast and two shortcut to start Phone and Contacts.
>
> Try removing the third party ones: facebook and forecast.

This test was done with these situation: connected to home wifi,
facebook ON, forecast ON, pressing sometimes the main menu to keep the
light always ON ---> http://pastebin.ca/1625155

This other test is the same as previous but without facebook and
forecast: http://pastebin.ca/1625163

--
Andrea Grandi
email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com
website: http://www.andreagrandi.it
PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc
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eero.tamminen at nokia

Oct 20, 2009, 7:50 AM

Post #29 of 75 (4703 views)
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Re: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

Hi,

ext Andrea Grandi wrote:
> 2009/10/17 Felipe Contreras <felipe.contreras [at] gmail>:
>> On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 10:18 PM, Andrea Grandi <a.grandi [at] gmail> wrote:
>>> 2009/10/16 Andrew Flegg <andrew [at] bleb>:
>>>> What widgets do you have on the desktop? RSS? Facebook? Foreca?
>>> I've Facebook, Calendar, Forecast and two shortcut to start Phone and Contacts.
>> Try removing the third party ones: facebook and forecast.
>
> This test was done with these situation: connected to home wifi,
> facebook ON, forecast ON, pressing sometimes the main menu to keep the
> light always ON ---> http://pastebin.ca/1625155
>
> This other test is the same as previous but without facebook and
> forecast: http://pastebin.ca/1625163

Do you have RD-mode or RD-flags enabled?

Are you charging your device until the led shows green?

- Eero
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a.grandi at gmail

Oct 20, 2009, 7:55 AM

Post #30 of 75 (4696 views)
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Re: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

Hi,

2009/10/20 Eero Tamminen <eero.tamminen [at] nokia>:
> Do you have RD-mode or RD-flags enabled?

how can I know it? I just installed the utility to become root (sudo gainroot)

> Are you charging your device until the led shows green?

yes

--
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eero.tamminen at nokia

Oct 20, 2009, 7:59 AM

Post #31 of 75 (4691 views)
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Re: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

Hi,

ext Andrea Grandi wrote:
>> Do you have RD-mode or RD-flags enabled?
>
> how can I know it? I just installed the utility to become root (sudo gainroot)

cal-tool --get-rd-mode --get-rd-flags

- Eero
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anidel at gmail

Oct 20, 2009, 8:01 AM

Post #32 of 75 (4700 views)
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Re: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

2009/10/20 Andrea Grandi <a.grandi [at] gmail>:
> Hi,
>
> 2009/10/20 Eero Tamminen <eero.tamminen [at] nokia>:
>> Do you have RD-mode or RD-flags enabled?
>
> how can I know it? I just installed the utility to become root (sudo gainroot)
>

You know it, because you've got to enable it via flasher :)
So if you don't know, probably you didn't enable it :P

anidel
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a.grandi at gmail

Oct 20, 2009, 8:05 AM

Post #33 of 75 (4698 views)
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Re: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

Hi,

2009/10/20 Eero Tamminen <eero.tamminen [at] nokia>:
> Hi,
>
> ext Andrea Grandi wrote:
>>>
>>> Do you have RD-mode or RD-flags enabled?
>>
>> how can I know it? I just installed the utility to become root (sudo
>> gainroot)
>
> cal-tool --get-rd-mode --get-rd-flags

it replies: disabled

by the way: I've seen that connecting to Simyo UMTS/HSDPA (which is
ALWAYS in roaming, since it's a virtual operator and it uses Orange
network) it takes a lot of battery. If I keep connected to my home's
wifi, battery last much much more.

I'll be able to test with Italian 3Hg carrier once I'll come back in
Italy... but this will be for Christmas holiday :\

--
Andrea Grandi
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website: http://www.andreagrandi.it
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eero.tamminen at nokia

Oct 20, 2009, 8:51 AM

Post #34 of 75 (4705 views)
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Re: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

Hi,

ext Andrea Grandi wrote:
>>>> Do you have RD-mode or RD-flags enabled?
>>> how can I know it? I just installed the utility to become root (sudo
>>> gainroot)
>> cal-tool --get-rd-mode --get-rd-flags
>
> it replies: disabled
>
> by the way: I've seen that connecting to Simyo UMTS/HSDPA (which is
> ALWAYS in roaming, since it's a virtual operator and it uses Orange
> network) it takes a lot of battery. If I keep connected to my home's
> wifi, battery last much much more.
>
> I'll be able to test with Italian 3Hg carrier once I'll come back in
> Italy... but this will be for Christmas holiday :\

Phone side needs much longer idle network traffic periods than WLAN,
to be able to power down. It's best if you can track the network
traffic to find out whether something causes it to be always up
(some process in the device[1], traffic in the phone network).

- Eero

[1] This could help, the Debian package builds fine for the device:
http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/nethogs
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tuomas at kulve

Oct 25, 2009, 4:45 AM

Post #35 of 75 (4620 views)
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Re: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

Andrew Flegg wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 12:34, Tuomas Kulve <tuomas [at] kulve> wrote:
>> This is now run on a 41-10 release without SIM, without WLAN, without
>> charger, with only ogg-support and sshd installed (default widgets on
>> the desktop), and display blanked via the lock button:
>>
>> C4 | 99.5% | 2297.0ms |
>
> Bet it'll last for *aaaages* :-)

93.75 hours.

I'm not going to repeat that test but based on my other tests, I would
guess that it wouldn't fluctuate more than a few hours.

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Igor.Stoppa at nokia

Oct 25, 2009, 7:20 AM

Post #36 of 75 (4621 views)
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RE: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

There is a bug in the cellmo SW related to absence of SIM: the current is higher when the SIM is not in.
So in real life use case (i assume people who will buy it will actually use it as a phone) the use time will be longer.
I would also assume that the sshd makes a difference.
I have no data to back it, but i'm quite sure it has not been profiled for mobile usage.

igor

________________________________________
From: maemo-users-bounces [at] maemo [maemo-users-bounces [at] maemo] On Behalf Of ext Tuomas Kulve [tuomas [at] kulve]
Sent: 25 October 2009 13:45
To: Andrew Flegg
Cc: maemo users
Subject: Re: N900 battery duration

Andrew Flegg wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 12:34, Tuomas Kulve <tuomas [at] kulve> wrote:
>> This is now run on a 41-10 release without SIM, without WLAN, without
>> charger, with only ogg-support and sshd installed (default widgets on
>> the desktop), and display blanked via the lock button:
>>
>> C4 | 99.5% | 2297.0ms |
>
> Bet it'll last for *aaaages* :-)

93.75 hours.

I'm not going to repeat that test but based on my other tests, I would
guess that it wouldn't fluctuate more than a few hours.

--
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tuomas at kulve

Oct 25, 2009, 7:49 AM

Post #37 of 75 (4613 views)
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Re: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

Igor.Stoppa [at] nokia wrote:
> There is a bug in the cellmo SW related to absence of SIM: the current is higher when the SIM is not in.
> So in real life use case (i assume people who will buy it will actually use it as a phone) the use time will be longer.

I guess I need to do more testing then :)

Although I'm not sure how to accomplish that as I need my SIM for the
daily use..

> I would also assume that the sshd makes a difference.
> I have no data to back it, but i'm quite sure it has not been profiled for mobile usage.

I assumed sshd wouldn't do anything if there are no connections to it.

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agarcia at igalia

Oct 25, 2009, 4:59 PM

Post #38 of 75 (4629 views)
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Re: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 10:48:27AM +0200, Andrea Grandi wrote:

> after some days using the N900 (with already lot of charge/discharge
> cicles) I'd like to compare my battery duration with other people.

During the first days I used the N900 a lot, including browsing the
web, instant messaging, e-mail, etc. The battery didn't last much more
than a day, so I had to recharge it everyday at night.

But then I wanted to compare its battery life with that of my old
phone, so I started using it in a more conservative way: phone calls,
text messages, calendar, alarm clock and occasionally as a media
player. I also used the camera to take some pictures here and there
and I connected to the Internet a few times to read my e-mail or check
a couple of websites, but only for a 2-3 minutes each time.

I charged the N900 on Wednesday night, and it's almost exhausted now,
so it lasted for ~4 days, which is quite good, I think, to get an
idea.

Berto
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tuomas at kulve

Oct 29, 2009, 10:41 PM

Post #39 of 75 (4508 views)
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Re: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

Tuomas Kulve wrote:
> Igor.Stoppa [at] nokia wrote:
>> There is a bug in the cellmo SW related to absence of SIM: the current is higher when the SIM is not in.
>> So in real life use case (i assume people who will buy it will actually use it as a phone) the use time will be longer.
>
> I guess I need to do more testing then :)
>
> Although I'm not sure how to accomplish that as I need my SIM for the
> daily use..

The previous test was without a SIM card. The device was very idle and
run for 93.75 hours (with a guessed few hour error marginal).

After charging the battery I inserted the SIM card, rebooted and started
a new test. I received two calls (hung up immediately), I received two
SMS messages and sent one, and the notifier led was blinking for 45 mins
at one point. Otherwise the device was idle and run for 93.62 hours. So
pretty close to the test without a SIM card.

I have a small shell script running there that writes a log every 60
seconds. After writing the log it runs the "sync" command and starts the
loop again. I'm assuming it doesn't affect the total run time much in an
otherwise idle device.

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dieter at plaetinck

Oct 31, 2009, 1:25 PM

Post #40 of 75 (4436 views)
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Re: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

I just managed to keep my n900 online for about 92 hours.

how?
- no wifi, 3g, edge or bluetooth
- a few short calls. not more then 10 mins in total
- about 5 hours of media player + FM transmitter (!) usage (playing mp3
files)
- I shut it down every evening and started it each morning, writing
down the exact time. so the 92 hours is actually spread over 6 days.

it's no suprise that turning off wifi/edge/3G/bluetooth is good for
battery saving, but i found it great to learn that the FM transmitter
doesn't need much juice.

Dieter
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Igor.Stoppa at nokia

Oct 31, 2009, 1:44 PM

Post #41 of 75 (4441 views)
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RE: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

________________________________________
From: maemo-users-bounces [at] maemo [maemo-users-bounces [at] maemo] On Behalf Of ext Tuomas Kulve [tuomas [at] kulve]
Sent: 30 October 2009 07:41
To: maemo-users [at] maemo
Subject: Re: N900 battery duration

Tuomas Kulve wrote:

> So pretty close to the test without a SIM card.

Even if the duration might be the same, the SIM card actually triggers network activity.
Depending on the operator having firewalls or not, this also makes the phone spend more
energy when stuff like port scans are coming.

igor
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tuomas at kulve

Oct 31, 2009, 1:53 PM

Post #42 of 75 (4443 views)
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Re: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

Igor.Stoppa [at] nokia wrote:

> Even if the duration might be the same, the SIM card actually triggers network activity.
> Depending on the operator having firewalls or not, this also makes the phone spend more
> energy when stuff like port scans are coming.

I didn't have data connection open, so no IP network traffic was
transferred.

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tuomas at kulve

Nov 7, 2009, 2:55 AM

Post #43 of 75 (4295 views)
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Re: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

I wrote a blog post about my ogg vs. mp3 measurements:

http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2009/11/07/n900-battery-duration-ogg-vs-mp3/

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mmaher at gmx

Nov 7, 2009, 3:38 AM

Post #44 of 75 (4300 views)
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Re: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

On Saturday 07 November 2009 11:55:52 Tuomas Kulve wrote:
> I wrote a blog post about my ogg vs. mp3 measurements:
>
> http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2009/11/07/n900-battery-duration-ogg-vs-mp3/
>
Wow, awseome! thanks for that very interessting blog entry.

Regards,
Max
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Igor.Stoppa at nokia

Nov 7, 2009, 3:44 AM

Post #45 of 75 (4317 views)
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RE: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

hi,
________________________________________
From: maemo-users-bounces [at] maemo [maemo-users-bounces [at] maemo] On Behalf Of ext Tuomas Kulve [tuomas [at] kulve]
Sent: 07 November 2009 12:55
To: maemo-users [at] maemo
Subject: Re: N900 battery duration

> I. wrote a blog post about my ogg vs. mp3 measurements:
> http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2009/11/07/n900-battery-duration-ogg-vs-mp3/

Sorry to again make these comments after you have run the measurement.
But in your cases you are seeing an offset due to the speaker protection algorythms.
Running the test with a headset plugged in would get rid of the offset.

igor
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tuomas at kulve

Nov 7, 2009, 3:52 AM

Post #46 of 75 (4309 views)
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Re: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

Igor.Stoppa [at] nokia wrote:

> Sorry to again make these comments after you have run the measurement.
> But in your cases you are seeing an offset due to the speaker protection algorythms.
> Running the test with a headset plugged in would get rid of the offset.

Offset? Is that something that affects the MP3 in a different manner
than Ogg?

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Igor.Stoppa at nokia

Nov 7, 2009, 4:07 AM

Post #47 of 75 (4301 views)
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RE: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

Tuomas Kulve wrote:

> Igor.Stoppa [at] nokia wrote:

>> Running the test with a headset plugged in would get rid of the offset.

> Offset? Is that something that affects the MP3 in a different manner
> than Ogg?

It should be the same, but since you are interested in the power
consumption of the decoding activity - if i understood correctly -
then you get an unknown term, which can also have 2nd order
effects due to the different timing and choices that both cpuidle
and cpufreq could make.

iow, if you have time, it might be interesting to run the test again
with an headset.

igpr
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tuomas at kulve

Nov 7, 2009, 4:12 AM

Post #48 of 75 (4305 views)
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Re: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

Igor.Stoppa [at] nokia wrote:
> It should be the same, but since you are interested in the power
> consumption of the decoding activity - if i understood correctly -
> then you get an unknown term, which can also have 2nd order
> effects due to the different timing and choices that both cpuidle
> and cpufreq could make.
>
> iow, if you have time, it might be interesting to run the test again
> with an headset.

I was more interested to know the difference between the mp3 and ogg.
But I'm also interested to know the difference between the headphones
connected and not connected.

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jc at eclis

Nov 7, 2009, 4:16 AM

Post #49 of 75 (4301 views)
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Re: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

Hello,

Igor.Stoppa [at] nokia a �crit :
> Tuomas Kulve wrote:
>
>> Igor.Stoppa [at] nokia wrote:
>
>>> Running the test with a headset plugged in would get rid of the offset.
>
>> Offset? Is that something that affects the MP3 in a different manner
>> than Ogg?
>
> It should be the same, but since you are interested in the power
> consumption of the decoding activity - if i understood correctly -
> then you get an unknown term, which can also have 2nd order
> effects due to the different timing and choices that both cpuidle
> and cpufreq could make.

But how the speaker protection algorythms can make a difference between
ffvorbis and libvorbis since the output should be exactly the same ?

Jean-Christian
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Igor.Stoppa at nokia

Nov 7, 2009, 4:18 AM

Post #50 of 75 (4299 views)
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RE: N900 battery duration [In reply to]

Tuomas Kulve wrote:

> I was more interested to know the difference between the mp3 and ogg.

Then i think it's more appropriate to do it with headset.

Unless yourl typical usecase is really to listen from the speakers - in which
case i'd rather recommend to use the fm transmitter and larger speakers
from a radio.

igor
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