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Extras Testing to Extras, again...

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anidel at gmail

Nov 19, 2009, 5:11 AM

Post #1 of 14 (965 views)
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Extras Testing to Extras, again...

So...

I am sure I missed something... but what actions were taken to address
this issue?
I do have Xournal pacakge 20 for more than 10 days with 6 thumbs up
out of 10 (i.e. more than 50% of people voted OK).

I want to promote it to Extras.
And I don't want to depend on others.

I REALLY would like to see a Promote to Extras earlier in the process.
It's up to me to wait enough time so that people can test it.
Again, what I think it's missing is something to vote after the
packages has been promoted to Extras so that the bad ones can
be pulled out.

If the fear is for malicious applications, then there's no way we can
prevent those from going to Extras no matter how many days
it's been in Testing.
(a timer comes to mind).

Anyway... actions should be taken and asap.
Please.

--
anidel
Sent from London, Eng, United Kingdom
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anidel at gmail

Nov 19, 2009, 5:26 AM

Post #2 of 14 (946 views)
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Re: Extras Testing to Extras, again... [In reply to]

Btw, I'm going to promote Pacakge 21 to Testing, but the issue remains.

Aniello

2009/11/19 Aniello Del Sorbo <anidel [at] gmail>:
> So...
>
> I am sure I missed something... but what actions were taken to address
> this issue?
> I do have Xournal pacakge 20 for more than 10 days with 6 thumbs up
> out of 10 (i.e. more than 50% of people voted OK).
>
> I want to promote it to Extras.
> And I don't want to depend on others.
>
> I REALLY would like to see a Promote to Extras earlier in the process.
> It's up to me to wait enough time so that people can test it.
> Again, what I think it's missing is something to vote after the
> packages has been promoted to Extras so that the bad ones can
> be pulled out.
>
> If the fear is for malicious applications, then there's no way we can
> prevent those from going to Extras no matter how many days
> it's been in Testing.
> (a timer comes to mind).
>
> Anyway... actions should be taken and asap.
> Please.
>
> --
> anidel
> Sent from London, Eng, United Kingdom
>

--
anidel
Sent from London, Eng, United Kingdom
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vdv100 at gmail

Nov 19, 2009, 5:43 AM

Post #3 of 14 (939 views)
Permalink

Re: Extras Testing to Extras, again... [In reply to]

Hi,

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 1:11 PM, Aniello Del Sorbo <anidel [at] gmail> wrote:

> So...
>
> I am sure I missed something... but what actions were taken to address
> this issue?
> I do have Xournal pacakge 20 for more than 10 days with 6 thumbs up
> out of 10 (i.e. more than 50% of people voted OK).
>
> I want to promote it to Extras.
> And I don't want to depend on others.
>
> I REALLY would like to see a Promote to Extras earlier in the process.
> It's up to me to wait enough time so that people can test it.
> Again, what I think it's missing is something to vote after the
> packages has been promoted to Extras so that the bad ones can
> be pulled out.
>
> If the fear is for malicious applications, then there's no way we can
> prevent those from going to Extras no matter how many days
> it's been in Testing.
> (a timer comes to mind).
>
> Anyway... actions should be taken and asap.
>

Unfortunately we need a developer to implement these actions, Niels is on
vacations till the end of the month, afaik.

Best regards,

--
Valério Valério
Maemo Community Council Chair

http://www.valeriovalerio.org

Please.
>
> --
> anidel
> Sent from London, Eng, United Kingdom
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-developers mailing list
> maemo-developers [at] maemo
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
>

anidel at gmail

Nov 19, 2009, 5:48 AM

Post #4 of 14 (940 views)
Permalink

Re: Extras Testing to Extras, again... [In reply to]

2009/11/19 Valerio Valerio <vdv100 [at] gmail>:
> Hi,
>> Anyway... actions should be taken and asap.
>
> Unfortunately we need a developer to implement these actions, Niels is on
> vacations till the end of the month, afaik.
>

To implement what?
I guess I should look around if some decision has been taken, I am not
aware of any.

--
anidel
Sent from London, Eng, United Kingdom
_______________________________________________
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https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers

eero.tamminen at nokia

Nov 19, 2009, 6:12 AM

Post #5 of 14 (932 views)
Permalink

Re: Extras Testing to Extras, again... [In reply to]

Hi,

ext Aniello Del Sorbo wrote:
> I am sure I missed something... but what actions were taken to address
> this issue?
>
> I do have Xournal pacakge 20 for more than 10 days with 6 thumbs up
> out of 10 (i.e. more than 50% of people voted OK).
>
> I want to promote it to Extras.
> And I don't want to depend on others.
>
> I REALLY would like to see a Promote to Extras earlier in the process.
> It's up to me to wait enough time so that people can test it.
> Again, what I think it's missing is something to vote after the
> packages has been promoted to Extras so that the bad ones can
> be pulled out.
>
> If the fear is for malicious applications, then there's no way we can
> prevent those from going to Extras no matter how many days
> it's been in Testing.
> (a timer comes to mind).

I'm not really happy with this process either.

There should be some kind of checklist which people go through,
that has items like:

[x] Tested with "htop" + T (to sort output according to Time column)
to see that application doesn't wakeup on the background and when
screen is blanked (if the application time column doesn't
increase during 10 mins). CPU usage when application is visible,
but not interacting with the user could also be checked.
These require ssh connection to the device.

[x] Checked normal application memory usage with mem-monitor
(from sp-memusage) on a freshly booted device and that it was
below X MB as required for this class of applications
(i.e. diff from before app started and when it is running).

[x] Used application for few hours with endurance snapshots (tool
from sp-endurance package) being taken at regular intervals.
The report generated from this data didn't show any
(significant) resource leakage.

Random comments about things working for people are not really
useful if at least someone of them hasn't checked properly also
things that aren't immediately visible to the user (effect on
battery usage and general device stability over longer period
of time etc).

- Eero
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anidel at gmail

Nov 19, 2009, 6:14 AM

Post #6 of 14 (940 views)
Permalink

Re: Extras Testing to Extras, again... [In reply to]

2009/11/19 Eero Tamminen <eero.tamminen [at] nokia>:
> Hi,
>
> ext Aniello Del Sorbo wrote:
>>
>> I am sure I missed something... but what actions were taken to address
>> this issue?
>
>>
>>
>> I do have Xournal pacakge 20 for more than 10 days with 6 thumbs up
>> out of 10 (i.e. more than 50% of people voted OK).
>>
>> I want to promote it to Extras.
>> And I don't want to depend on others.
>>
>> I REALLY would like to see a Promote to Extras earlier in the process.
>> It's up to me to wait enough time so that people can test it.
>> Again, what I think it's missing is something to vote after the
>> packages has been promoted to Extras so that the bad ones can
>> be pulled out.
>>
>> If the fear is for malicious applications, then there's no way we can
>> prevent those from going to Extras no matter how many days
>> it's been in Testing.
>> (a timer comes to mind).
>
> I'm not really happy with this process either.
>
> There should be some kind of checklist which people go through,
> that has items like:
>
> [x] Tested with "htop" + T (to sort output according to Time column)
> to see that application doesn't wakeup on the background and when
> screen is blanked (if the application time column doesn't
> increase during 10 mins). CPU usage when application is visible,
> but not interacting with the user could also be checked.
> These require ssh connection to the device.
>
> [x] Checked normal application memory usage with mem-monitor
> (from sp-memusage) on a freshly booted device and that it was
> below X MB as required for this class of applications
> (i.e. diff from before app started and when it is running).
>
> [x] Used application for few hours with endurance snapshots (tool
> from sp-endurance package) being taken at regular intervals.
> The report generated from this data didn't show any
> (significant) resource leakage.
>
> Random comments about things working for people are not really
> useful if at least someone of them hasn't checked properly also
> things that aren't immediately visible to the user (effect on
> battery usage and general device stability over longer period
> of time etc).
>
>
> - Eero
>

Can this be work for a Maemo Extras Testing Tester? :)

--
anidel
Sent from London, Eng, United Kingdom
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maemo-developers [at] maemo
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers

hald at icandy

Nov 19, 2009, 6:43 AM

Post #7 of 14 (936 views)
Permalink

Re: Extras Testing to Extras, again... [In reply to]

On Thu, 2009-11-19 at 13:48 +0000, Aniello Del Sorbo wrote:
> 2009/11/19 Valerio Valerio <vdv100 [at] gmail>:
> > Hi,
> >> Anyway... actions should be taken and asap.
> >
> > Unfortunately we need a developer to implement these actions, Niels is on
> > vacations till the end of the month, afaik.
> >
>
> To implement what?
> I guess I should look around if some decision has been taken, I am not
> aware of any.

I followed the (monster) thread almost completely, but I also did not
see any final conclusions. How about making a decision in Barcelona?
Maybe it's easier if a least a couple of people can discuss this in real
life? At least the result could be a solid proposal which could still be
discussed here.

What does everyone think about that?
Conny

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vdv100 at gmail

Nov 19, 2009, 7:10 AM

Post #8 of 14 (933 views)
Permalink

Re: Extras Testing to Extras, again... [In reply to]

Hi,

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Aniello Del Sorbo <anidel [at] gmail> wrote:

> 2009/11/19 Valerio Valerio <vdv100 [at] gmail>:
> > Hi,
> >> Anyway... actions should be taken and asap.
> >
> > Unfortunately we need a developer to implement these actions, Niels is on
> > vacations till the end of the month, afaik.
> >
>
> To implement what?
> I guess I should look around if some decision has been taken, I am not
> aware of any.
>
>
http://n2.nabble.com/Follow-up-from-QA-meeting-on-IRC-td3990526.html#a3990526

Best regards,

--
Valério Valério
Maemo Community Council Chair

http://www.valeriovalerio.org

--
> anidel
> Sent from London, Eng, United Kingdom
>

andrew at bleb

Nov 19, 2009, 7:10 AM

Post #9 of 14 (938 views)
Permalink

Re: Extras Testing to Extras, again... [In reply to]

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 14:43, Cornelius Hald <hald [at] icandy> wrote:
> On Thu, 2009-11-19 at 13:48 +0000, Aniello Del Sorbo wrote:
>
>> I guess I should look around if some decision has been taken, I am not
>> aware of any.
>
> I followed the (monster) thread almost completely, but I also did not
> see any final conclusions.

There was an IRC meeting which resulted in some conclusions and an
action for further discussion. The conclusions were posted by
Jeremiah; I've seen no discussion on the point about command-line
packages.

Cheers,

Andrew

--
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew [at] bleb | http://www.bleb.org/
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vdv100 at gmail

Nov 19, 2009, 7:16 AM

Post #10 of 14 (927 views)
Permalink

Re: Extras Testing to Extras, again... [In reply to]

Hi,

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 3:10 PM, Andrew Flegg <andrew [at] bleb> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 14:43, Cornelius Hald <hald [at] icandy> wrote:
> > On Thu, 2009-11-19 at 13:48 +0000, Aniello Del Sorbo wrote:
> >
> >> I guess I should look around if some decision has been taken, I am not
> >> aware of any.
> >
> > I followed the (monster) thread almost completely, but I also did not
> > see any final conclusions.
>
> There was an IRC meeting which resulted in some conclusions and an
> action for further discussion. The conclusions were posted by
> Jeremiah;

> I've seen no discussion on the point about command-line
> packages.
>

I intentionally left that discussion on hold, in order to give more
attention to other topics, that are much more important IMHO, but I didn't
forget about it and will open follow up soon.

Best regards,

--
Valério Valério
Maemo Community Council Chair

http://www.valeriovalerio.org

>
> Cheers,
>
> Andrew
>
> --
> Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew [at] bleb | http://www.bleb.org/
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-developers mailing list
> maemo-developers [at] maemo
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
>

hald at icandy

Nov 19, 2009, 11:49 AM

Post #11 of 14 (923 views)
Permalink

Re: Extras Testing to Extras, again... [In reply to]

On Thu, 2009-11-19 at 15:10 +0000, Valerio Valerio wrote:

> http://n2.nabble.com/Follow-up-from-QA-meeting-on-IRC-td3990526.html#a3990526

Thanks for the link Valerio! I'll read through it later.
Conny

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bchiodo at gmail

Nov 20, 2009, 10:30 AM

Post #12 of 14 (868 views)
Permalink

Re: Extras Testing to Extras, again... [In reply to]

I'm also in roughly the same position as Aniello with my application
TouchSearch [1]. I have a new version ready to be released but will
not throw away seven thumbs up to do it...

I wish I could just upload it to Extras now; it's a simple Desktop
Widget, I think seven people saying it is working fine is enough!

[1] http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/touchsearch/1.2-2/

On 11/19/09, Aniello Del Sorbo <anidel [at] gmail> wrote:
> So...
>
> I am sure I missed something... but what actions were taken to address
> this issue?
> I do have Xournal pacakge 20 for more than 10 days with 6 thumbs up
> out of 10 (i.e. more than 50% of people voted OK).
>
> I want to promote it to Extras.
> And I don't want to depend on others.
>
> I REALLY would like to see a Promote to Extras earlier in the process.
> It's up to me to wait enough time so that people can test it.
> Again, what I think it's missing is something to vote after the
> packages has been promoted to Extras so that the bad ones can
> be pulled out.
>
> If the fear is for malicious applications, then there's no way we can
> prevent those from going to Extras no matter how many days
> it's been in Testing.
> (a timer comes to mind).
>
> Anyway... actions should be taken and asap.
> Please.
>
> --
> anidel
> Sent from London, Eng, United Kingdom
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-developers mailing list
> maemo-developers [at] maemo
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
>

--
Best Regards,

Brent Chiodo
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lists at harbaum

Nov 20, 2009, 11:54 AM

Post #13 of 14 (877 views)
Permalink

Re: Extras Testing to Extras, again... [In reply to]

Hi,

why are you all so keen to get stuff into extras? I have thrown
away lots of thumbs-up with all the gpxview updates i did. But
i have stopped to care. Some guys having given thumbs down never checked
the new versions nor commented if the new version solved their
issues. So in fact most people just seem to give thumbs
down for karma, not to improve those applications.

Thus i have decided to play their game by clicking on "promote"
every now or then, but not to care about the result (that's why
osm2go actually got 15 thumbs up ... i just never checked if it
was ready to go into extras).

So my advise: Play the game the way they want you to, but ignore
the results. It may be too frustrating to fix things due to user feedback, throw
away the thumbs up and then see that these testers actually never
come back to see if you've improved things.

Be happy ... things could be worse. They might e.g. reduce a developers
karma for every thumbs-down one of his apps gets. Or do they?

Till

Am Freitag 20 November 2009 schrieb Brent Chiodo:
> I'm also in roughly the same position as Aniello with my application
> TouchSearch [1]. I have a new version ready to be released but will
> not throw away seven thumbs up to do it...
>
> I wish I could just upload it to Extras now; it's a simple Desktop
> Widget, I think seven people saying it is working fine is enough!
>
> [1] http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/touchsearch/1.2-2/
>
>
> On 11/19/09, Aniello Del Sorbo <anidel [at] gmail> wrote:
> > So...
> >
> > I am sure I missed something... but what actions were taken to address
> > this issue?
> > I do have Xournal pacakge 20 for more than 10 days with 6 thumbs up
> > out of 10 (i.e. more than 50% of people voted OK).
> >
> > I want to promote it to Extras.
> > And I don't want to depend on others.
> >
> > I REALLY would like to see a Promote to Extras earlier in the process.
> > It's up to me to wait enough time so that people can test it.
> > Again, what I think it's missing is something to vote after the
> > packages has been promoted to Extras so that the bad ones can
> > be pulled out.
> >
> > If the fear is for malicious applications, then there's no way we can
> > prevent those from going to Extras no matter how many days
> > it's been in Testing.
> > (a timer comes to mind).
> >
> > Anyway... actions should be taken and asap.
> > Please.
> >
> > --
> > anidel
> > Sent from London, Eng, United Kingdom
> > _______________________________________________
> > maemo-developers mailing list
> > maemo-developers [at] maemo
> > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
> >
>
>

_______________________________________________
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lists at harbaum

Nov 21, 2009, 2:20 AM

Post #14 of 14 (854 views)
Permalink

Re: Extras Testing to Extras, again... [In reply to]

Hi,

ok, here's my proposal: Let the system send out emails to
all testers that voted thumbs down once a new version is
released and remind them to verify if the flaws they've
complained about are gone.

Or send even an email to all testers of the previous
version to ask them to re-test. I must admit that i
also don't re-check software i've voted for since it's
not that easy to keep an overview on updated packages.
Such an email would imho be acceptible as you earn
karma with this. Perhaps you can even ask not be
notified of new versions, but also not get any karma
for testing then. This should also saisfy privacy-concerned
testers.

Till

Am Freitag 20 November 2009 schrieb Brent Chiodo:
> I'm also in roughly the same position as Aniello with my application
> TouchSearch [1]. I have a new version ready to be released but will
> not throw away seven thumbs up to do it...
>
> I wish I could just upload it to Extras now; it's a simple Desktop
> Widget, I think seven people saying it is working fine is enough!
>
> [1] http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/touchsearch/1.2-2/
>
>
> On 11/19/09, Aniello Del Sorbo <anidel [at] gmail> wrote:
> > So...
> >
> > I am sure I missed something... but what actions were taken to address
> > this issue?
> > I do have Xournal pacakge 20 for more than 10 days with 6 thumbs up
> > out of 10 (i.e. more than 50% of people voted OK).
> >
> > I want to promote it to Extras.
> > And I don't want to depend on others.
> >
> > I REALLY would like to see a Promote to Extras earlier in the process.
> > It's up to me to wait enough time so that people can test it.
> > Again, what I think it's missing is something to vote after the
> > packages has been promoted to Extras so that the bad ones can
> > be pulled out.
> >
> > If the fear is for malicious applications, then there's no way we can
> > prevent those from going to Extras no matter how many days
> > it's been in Testing.
> > (a timer comes to mind).
> >
> > Anyway... actions should be taken and asap.
> > Please.
> >
> > --
> > anidel
> > Sent from London, Eng, United Kingdom
> > _______________________________________________
> > maemo-developers mailing list
> > maemo-developers [at] maemo
> > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
> >
>
>

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