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Bug#6203, rotation and OHMD

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anidel at gmail

Nov 17, 2009, 8:17 AM

Post #1 of 16 (1936 views)
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Bug#6203, rotation and OHMD

So,
according to bug 6203 (https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6203)
Nokia introduced this "ohmd" daemon that
pauses applications not whitelisted so that the rotation itself would
proceed smoothly.

In the meanwhile Collabora had fixed and improved a lot rotation
itself, so that this "pausing" is not needed anymore.
In fact, it make thinks worse.

Is the purpose of OHMD ONLY to pause not whitelisted applications when rotating?
As if it is so, I'd put a "stop ohmd" every time I run Xournal to make
sure it rotates smoothly.

--
anidel
Sent from London, Eng, United Kingdom
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andrew at bleb

Nov 17, 2009, 8:39 AM

Post #2 of 16 (1880 views)
Permalink

Re: Bug#6203, rotation and OHMD [In reply to]

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 16:17, Aniello Del Sorbo <anidel [at] gmail> wrote:
>
> Is the purpose of OHMD ONLY to pause not whitelisted applications when
> rotating? As if it is so, I'd put a "stop ohmd" every time I run Xournal
> to make sure it rotates smoothly.

Find a way of including applications which do support rotation in
ohmd's whitelist?

Cheers,

Andrew

--
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew [at] bleb | http://www.bleb.org/
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eero.tamminen at nokia

Nov 17, 2009, 9:28 AM

Post #3 of 16 (1881 views)
Permalink

Re: Bug#6203, rotation and OHMD [In reply to]

Hi,

ext Aniello Del Sorbo wrote:
> according to bug 6203 (https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6203)
> Nokia introduced this "ohmd" daemon that
> pauses applications not whitelisted so that the rotation itself would
> proceed smoothly.
>
> In the meanwhile Collabora had fixed and improved a lot rotation
> itself, so that this "pausing" is not needed anymore.
> In fact, it make thinks worse.
>
> Is the purpose of OHMD ONLY to pause not whitelisted applications when rotating?
> As if it is so, I'd put a "stop ohmd" every time I run Xournal to make
> sure it rotates smoothly.

It handles also audio policies and tries to make sure that you get
your phone calls when the device is heavily loaded and some other
minor things.

- Eero
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anidel at gmail

Nov 17, 2009, 9:43 AM

Post #4 of 16 (1900 views)
Permalink

Re: Bug#6203, rotation and OHMD [In reply to]

2009/11/17 Eero Tamminen <eero.tamminen [at] nokia>:
> Hi,
>
> ext Aniello Del Sorbo wrote:
>>
>> according to bug 6203 (https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6203)
>> Nokia introduced this "ohmd" daemon that
>> pauses applications not whitelisted so that the rotation itself would
>> proceed smoothly.
>>
>> In the meanwhile Collabora had fixed and improved a lot rotation
>> itself, so that this "pausing" is not needed anymore.
>> In fact, it make thinks worse.
>>
>> Is the purpose of OHMD ONLY to pause not whitelisted applications when
>> rotating?
>> As if it is so, I'd put a "stop ohmd" every time I run Xournal to make
>> sure it rotates smoothly.
>
> It handles also audio policies and tries to make sure that you get
> your phone calls when the device is heavily loaded and some other
> minor things.
>
>
> � � � �- Eero
>

Not something you may want to stop then.

I'll wait for a fix.

--
anidel
Sent from London, Eng, United Kingdom
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eero.tamminen at nokia

Nov 18, 2009, 2:00 AM

Post #5 of 16 (1857 views)
Permalink

Re: Bug#6203, rotation and OHMD [In reply to]

Hi,

ext Aniello Del Sorbo wrote:
>>> Is the purpose of OHMD ONLY to pause not whitelisted applications when
>>> rotating?
>>>
>>> As if it is so, I'd put a "stop ohmd" every time I run Xournal to make
>>> sure it rotates smoothly.
>>
>> It handles also audio policies and tries to make sure that you get
>> your phone calls when the device is heavily loaded and some other
>> minor things.
>
> Not something you may want to stop then.
>
> I'll wait for a fix.

The policy configuration is in:
/usr/share/policy/etc/current/syspart.conf

As a temporary hack for your own device, you might try to modify
that file as root and then do "killall ohmd" to restart it with
the new policy.

This way you get to decide what has the priority instead of it
being dictated by Nokia. :-)

In future there may be some way to install extra policies.

NOTE: if this conf file has errors, ohmd isn't started and your
device will most likely behave strangely as result (cannot play
music etc).

DISCLAIMER: if it breaks, you get to keep all the pieces.
I.e. have an up to date backup of your data and be ready to
reflash in the case that things really break. Modified policy
is an untested configuration.

- Eero
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turist at gmail

Nov 18, 2009, 2:45 AM

Post #6 of 16 (1855 views)
Permalink

Re: Bug#6203, rotation and OHMD [In reply to]

> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:28:49 +0200
> From: Eero Tamminen <eero.tamminen [at] nokia>
> Subject: Re: Bug#6203, rotation and OHMD
> To: ext Aniello Del Sorbo <anidel [at] gmail>
> Cc: "maemo-developers [at] maemo" <maemo-developers [at] maemo>
> Message-ID: <4B02DD51.3070105 [at] nokia>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> It handles also audio policies and tries to make sure that you get
> your phone calls when the device is heavily loaded and some other
> minor things.
>
> � � � �- Eero

Just to know.
I see now this `ohmd` process in my 41-10. I did not get it, was this
daemon improved or made worse in new firmware released lately?

--
Sincerely,
Eugene
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anidel at gmail

Nov 18, 2009, 3:23 AM

Post #7 of 16 (1860 views)
Permalink

Re: Bug#6203, rotation and OHMD [In reply to]

2009/11/18 Eero Tamminen <eero.tamminen [at] nokia>:
> Hi,
>
> ext Aniello Del Sorbo wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Is the purpose of OHMD ONLY to pause not whitelisted applications when
>>>> rotating?
>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As if it is so, I'd put a "stop ohmd" every time I run Xournal to make
>>>> sure it rotates smoothly.
>
>>>
>>>
>>> It handles also audio policies and tries to make sure that you get
>>> your phone calls when the device is heavily loaded and some other
>>> minor things.
>>
>> Not something you may want to stop then.
>>
>> I'll wait for a fix.
>
> The policy configuration is in:
> � � � �/usr/share/policy/etc/current/syspart.conf
>
> As a temporary hack for your own device, you might try to modify
> that file as root and then do "killall ohmd" to restart it with
> the new policy.
>
> This way you get to decide what has the priority instead of it
> being dictated by Nokia. :-)
>
> In future there may be some way to install extra policies.
>
>
> NOTE: if this conf file has errors, ohmd isn't started and your
> device will most likely behave strangely as result (cannot play
> music etc).
>
> DISCLAIMER: if it breaks, you get to keep all the pieces.
> I.e. have an up to date backup of your data and be ready to
> reflash in the case that things really break. �Modified policy
> is an untested configuration.
>

As commented on the Bug I won't touch anything, I may play with it, but
I will have to just wait for a fix coming from you guys.

You do realize that the ones that will get thumbs down for this will be us,
third party developers as people will think it's Xournal and Conboy not properly
developed.
Indeed, Nokia Phone app rotates nicely.

:)

--
anidel
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eero.tamminen at nokia

Nov 18, 2009, 8:07 AM

Post #8 of 16 (1853 views)
Permalink

Re: Bug#6203, rotation and OHMD [In reply to]

Hi,

ext Eugene Antimirov wrote:
>> It handles also audio policies and tries to make sure that you get
>> your phone calls when the device is heavily loaded and some other
>> minor things.
>
> Just to know.
>
> I see now this `ohmd` process in my 41-10. I did not get it, was this
> daemon improved or made worse in new firmware released lately?

Better for known (pre-installed) applications, worse for unknown
applications. The reason for this is that unknown applications have
unknown resource usage so system policy treats them with more care.

It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Changing the policy is slow
iterative work requiring lots of testing that the policy change doesn't
significantly worsen other use-cases in some situations (e.g. for things
for which there are certain certification & legal requirements).

Developers can now experiment and report/discuss things which they would
like policy to handle better (for certain classes of 3rd applications
and their use-cases). I.e. in regards to 3rd party applications, the
policies could be considered work-in-progress.

Things that could potentially be done for 3rd party applications
policy handling:

- Default policy is improved in regards to unknown processes.
It's yet unknown whether this can be done well enough without
sacrificing the known functionality, that's why feedback is needed
on the behavior of 3rd party application use-cases.

- Applications themselves specify the required policy on install.
This is extra work for apps, and requires extensive testing to
guarantee that the policy they choose is good match for
the application in all cases. (application doesn't leak or
otherwise hog resources)

- Some way for user to specify per-application policy.
I'm sure power-users would like that... :-)

- Eero
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martin.grimme at gmail

Nov 18, 2009, 8:23 AM

Post #9 of 16 (1853 views)
Permalink

Re: Bug#6203, rotation and OHMD [In reply to]

How about another XAtom (since we already have so many on Maemo ;) )
on the application window, saying "I rotate well and quickly." ?

The ohmd could take care of this atom and refrain from freezing the
app during rotation, iff it is the currently visible one.

Of course applications could lie about their rotation capabilities,
but that's what we have the extras-testing Q&A for.

Martin

2009/11/18, Eero Tamminen <eero.tamminen [at] nokia>:
> Hi,
>
> ext Eugene Antimirov wrote:
>>> It handles also audio policies and tries to make sure that you get
>>> your phone calls when the device is heavily loaded and some other
>>> minor things.
>>
>> Just to know.
> >
>> I see now this `ohmd` process in my 41-10. I did not get it, was this
>> daemon improved or made worse in new firmware released lately?
>
> Better for known (pre-installed) applications, worse for unknown
> applications. The reason for this is that unknown applications have
> unknown resource usage so system policy treats them with more care.
>
>
> It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Changing the policy is slow
> iterative work requiring lots of testing that the policy change doesn't
> significantly worsen other use-cases in some situations (e.g. for things
> for which there are certain certification & legal requirements).
>
> Developers can now experiment and report/discuss things which they would
> like policy to handle better (for certain classes of 3rd applications
> and their use-cases). I.e. in regards to 3rd party applications, the
> policies could be considered work-in-progress.
>
>
> Things that could potentially be done for 3rd party applications
> policy handling:
>
> - Default policy is improved in regards to unknown processes.
> It's yet unknown whether this can be done well enough without
> sacrificing the known functionality, that's why feedback is needed
> on the behavior of 3rd party application use-cases.
>
> - Applications themselves specify the required policy on install.
> This is extra work for apps, and requires extensive testing to
> guarantee that the policy they choose is good match for
> the application in all cases. (application doesn't leak or
> otherwise hog resources)
>
> - Some way for user to specify per-application policy.
> I'm sure power-users would like that... :-)
>
>
> - Eero
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-developers mailing list
> maemo-developers [at] maemo
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
>
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anidel at gmail

Nov 18, 2009, 8:34 AM

Post #10 of 16 (1854 views)
Permalink

Re: Bug#6203, rotation and OHMD [In reply to]

Out of ignorance,

why don't you guys simply allow only the foremost (i.e. the currently
visible one)
application to rotate and send the rotation event to the other apps
AFTER the animation has completed.

After all to switch from one app to the other we've got to go via the
task switcher
and that rotates to landscape mode anyway (at least until you put in support
for rotation there as well, but still..)

Aniello

2009/11/18 Martin Grimme <martin.grimme [at] gmail>:
> How about another XAtom (since we already have so many on Maemo ;) )
> on the application window, saying "I rotate well and quickly." ?
>
> The ohmd could take care of this atom and refrain from freezing the
> app during rotation, iff it is the currently visible one.
>
> Of course applications could lie about their rotation capabilities,
> but that's what we have the extras-testing Q&A for.
>
>
> Martin
>
>
> 2009/11/18, Eero Tamminen <eero.tamminen [at] nokia>:
>> Hi,
>>
>> ext Eugene Antimirov wrote:
>>>> It handles also audio policies and tries to make sure that you get
>>>> your phone calls when the device is heavily loaded and some other
>>>> minor things.
>>>
>>> Just to know.
>> �>
>>> I see now this `ohmd` process in my 41-10. I did not get it, was this
>>> daemon improved or made worse in new firmware released lately?
>>
>> Better for known (pre-installed) applications, worse for unknown
>> applications. �The reason for this is that unknown applications have
>> unknown resource usage so system policy treats them with more care.
>>
>>
>> It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. �Changing the policy is slow
>> iterative work requiring lots of testing that the policy change doesn't
>> significantly worsen other use-cases in some situations (e.g. for things
>> for which there are certain certification & legal requirements).
>>
>> Developers can now experiment and report/discuss things which they would
>> like policy to handle better (for certain classes of 3rd applications
>> and their use-cases). I.e. in regards to 3rd party applications, the
>> policies could be considered work-in-progress.
>>
>>
>> Things that could potentially be done for 3rd party applications
>> policy handling:
>>
>> - Default policy is improved in regards to unknown processes.
>> � �It's yet unknown whether this can be done well enough without
>> � �sacrificing the known functionality, that's why feedback is needed
>> � �on the behavior of 3rd party application use-cases.
>>
>> - Applications themselves specify the required policy on install.
>> � �This is extra work for apps, and requires extensive testing to
>> � �guarantee that the policy they choose is good match for
>> � �the application in all cases. (application doesn't leak or
>> � �otherwise hog resources)
>>
>> - Some way for user to specify per-application policy.
>> � �I'm sure power-users would like that... :-)
>>
>>
>> � � � - Eero
>> _______________________________________________
>> maemo-developers mailing list
>> maemo-developers [at] maemo
>> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
>>
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-developers mailing list
> maemo-developers [at] maemo
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
>

--
anidel
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eero.tamminen at nokia

Nov 18, 2009, 8:39 AM

Post #11 of 16 (1858 views)
Permalink

Re: Bug#6203, rotation and OHMD [In reply to]

Hi,

ext Martin Grimme wrote:
> How about another XAtom (since we already have so many on Maemo ;) )
> on the application window, saying "I rotate well and quickly." ?
>
> The ohmd could take care of this atom and refrain from freezing the
> app during rotation, iff it is the currently visible one.
>
> Of course applications could lie about their rotation capabilities,
> but that's what we have the extras-testing Q&A for.

The rotation case is a minor issue and I think it can be handled OK
for unknown applications without this kind of kludges. Let's just
hope we can get a fix for that included to the next release.

The main issue with policy is handling of unknown processes in
general and for that more feedback is needed.

(A hint: MAFW is a known system service, so it's good to use
that for music playback... Tracker use is a bit more problematic
because it's resource usage can fluctuate pretty much according
to content it processes and what kind of requests it gets. And
policy daemon doesn't currently know whether foreground application
needs tracker or not.)

- Eero

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eero.tamminen at nokia

Nov 18, 2009, 8:43 AM

Post #12 of 16 (1863 views)
Permalink

Re: Bug#6203, rotation and OHMD [In reply to]

Hi,

ext Aniello Del Sorbo wrote:
> why don't you guys simply allow only the foremost (i.e. the currently
> visible one)
> application to rotate and send the rotation event to the other apps
> AFTER the animation has completed.

Background applications don't get the rotation / redraw messages at all.
You can check this with xresponse and/or xev.

(Fixing that in X and composite/window manager required a lot of work,
but AFAIK applicable parts of this work are now in upstream.)

- Eero
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hald at icandy

Nov 18, 2009, 8:44 AM

Post #13 of 16 (1861 views)
Permalink

Re: Bug#6203, rotation and OHMD [In reply to]

I see many use cases for those policies like an incoming phone call
should work properly even while some app is doing heavy number
crunching.

However rotation is a different thing. I mean what's the objective? The
rotation animation should be smooth even if something uses a lot of
processing time? Fair enough. But pausing the _foreground_ application
is hardly the solution. How about pausing all _background_ applications?

The foreground application is the only application interested in the
rotation. Therefore it already specifies explicitly that it can rotate.
If I now write an application it's my duty to give the CPU some time
while rotating. If I don't do this, _my_ application looks shitty and
everyone will tell me. It's not the platform that gets a bad reputation,
it's my app.

So, if anything should get paused, it's all applications which are not
white listed and which are not in the foreground.

If I somehow missed the point, please tell me :)

Cheers!
Conny

On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 18:07 +0200, Eero Tamminen wrote:
> Hi,
>
> ext Eugene Antimirov wrote:
> >> It handles also audio policies and tries to make sure that you get
> >> your phone calls when the device is heavily loaded and some other
> >> minor things.
> >
> > Just to know.
> >
> > I see now this `ohmd` process in my 41-10. I did not get it, was this
> > daemon improved or made worse in new firmware released lately?
>
> Better for known (pre-installed) applications, worse for unknown
> applications. The reason for this is that unknown applications have
> unknown resource usage so system policy treats them with more care.
>
>
> It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Changing the policy is slow
> iterative work requiring lots of testing that the policy change doesn't
> significantly worsen other use-cases in some situations (e.g. for things
> for which there are certain certification & legal requirements).
>
> Developers can now experiment and report/discuss things which they would
> like policy to handle better (for certain classes of 3rd applications
> and their use-cases). I.e. in regards to 3rd party applications, the
> policies could be considered work-in-progress.
>
>
> Things that could potentially be done for 3rd party applications
> policy handling:
>
> - Default policy is improved in regards to unknown processes.
> It's yet unknown whether this can be done well enough without
> sacrificing the known functionality, that's why feedback is needed
> on the behavior of 3rd party application use-cases.
>
> - Applications themselves specify the required policy on install.
> This is extra work for apps, and requires extensive testing to
> guarantee that the policy they choose is good match for
> the application in all cases. (application doesn't leak or
> otherwise hog resources)
>
> - Some way for user to specify per-application policy.
> I'm sure power-users would like that... :-)
>
>
> - Eero
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-developers mailing list
> maemo-developers [at] maemo
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers

_______________________________________________
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anidel at gmail

Nov 18, 2009, 9:17 AM

Post #14 of 16 (1851 views)
Permalink

Re: Bug#6203, rotation and OHMD [In reply to]

2009/11/18 Cornelius Hald <hald [at] icandy>:
> I see many use cases for those policies like an incoming phone call
> should work properly even while some app is doing heavy number
> crunching.
>
> However rotation is a different thing. I mean what's the objective? The
> rotation animation should be smooth even if something uses a lot of
> processing time? Fair enough. But pausing the _foreground_ application
> is hardly the solution. How about pausing all _background_ applications?
>
> The foreground application is the only application interested in the
> rotation. Therefore it already specifies explicitly that it can rotate.
> If I now write an application it's my duty to give the CPU some time
> while rotating. If I don't do this, _my_ application looks shitty and
> everyone will tell me. It's not the platform that gets a bad reputation,
> it's my app.
>
> So, if anything should get paused, it's all applications which are not
> white listed and which are not in the foreground.
>
> If I somehow missed the point, please tell me :)
>
> Cheers!
> Conny
>

How dare you steal my words out of my hands before I even write them!
No, I miss the point as well..

Aniello

>
> On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 18:07 +0200, Eero Tamminen wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> ext Eugene Antimirov wrote:
>> >> It handles also audio policies and tries to make sure that you get
>> >> your phone calls when the device is heavily loaded and some other
>> >> minor things.
>> >
>> > Just to know.
>> �>
>> > I see now this `ohmd` process in my 41-10. I did not get it, was this
>> > daemon improved or made worse in new firmware released lately?
>>
>> Better for known (pre-installed) applications, worse for unknown
>> applications. �The reason for this is that unknown applications have
>> unknown resource usage so system policy treats them with more care.
>>
>>
>> It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. �Changing the policy is slow
>> iterative work requiring lots of testing that the policy change doesn't
>> significantly worsen other use-cases in some situations (e.g. for things
>> for which there are certain certification & legal requirements).
>>
>> Developers can now experiment and report/discuss things which they would
>> like policy to handle better (for certain classes of 3rd applications
>> and their use-cases). I.e. in regards to 3rd party applications, the
>> policies could be considered work-in-progress.
>>
>>
>> Things that could potentially be done for 3rd party applications
>> policy handling:
>>
>> - Default policy is improved in regards to unknown processes.
>> � �It's yet unknown whether this can be done well enough without
>> � �sacrificing the known functionality, that's why feedback is needed
>> � �on the behavior of 3rd party application use-cases.
>>
>> - Applications themselves specify the required policy on install.
>> � �This is extra work for apps, and requires extensive testing to
>> � �guarantee that the policy they choose is good match for
>> � �the application in all cases. (application doesn't leak or
>> � �otherwise hog resources)
>>
>> - Some way for user to specify per-application policy.
>> � �I'm sure power-users would like that... :-)
>>
>>
>> � � � - Eero
>> _______________________________________________
>> maemo-developers mailing list
>> maemo-developers [at] maemo
>> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
>
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-developers mailing list
> maemo-developers [at] maemo
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
>

--
anidel
Sent from London, Eng, United Kingdom
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kimmo.hamalainen at nokia

Nov 19, 2009, 12:21 AM

Post #15 of 16 (1815 views)
Permalink

Re: Bug#6203, rotation and OHMD [In reply to]

On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 17:23 +0100, ext Martin Grimme wrote:
> How about another XAtom (since we already have so many on Maemo ;) )
> on the application window, saying "I rotate well and quickly." ?
>
> The ohmd could take care of this atom and refrain from freezing the
> app during rotation, iff it is the currently visible one.

It's much simpler to just not freeze the application that is being
rotated. This allows it to redraw for the new screen dimensions _while_
we are showing the rotating animation. Currently the ohmd freezing is
breaking this for others than the Phone application (it seems those guys
didn't understand what is happening), but it will be fixed.

-Kimmo

>
> Of course applications could lie about their rotation capabilities,
> but that's what we have the extras-testing Q&A for.
>
>
> Martin
>
>
> 2009/11/18, Eero Tamminen <eero.tamminen [at] nokia>:
> > Hi,
> >
> > ext Eugene Antimirov wrote:
> >>> It handles also audio policies and tries to make sure that you get
> >>> your phone calls when the device is heavily loaded and some other
> >>> minor things.
> >>
> >> Just to know.
> > >
> >> I see now this `ohmd` process in my 41-10. I did not get it, was this
> >> daemon improved or made worse in new firmware released lately?
> >
> > Better for known (pre-installed) applications, worse for unknown
> > applications. The reason for this is that unknown applications have
> > unknown resource usage so system policy treats them with more care.
> >
> >
> > It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Changing the policy is slow
> > iterative work requiring lots of testing that the policy change doesn't
> > significantly worsen other use-cases in some situations (e.g. for things
> > for which there are certain certification & legal requirements).
> >
> > Developers can now experiment and report/discuss things which they would
> > like policy to handle better (for certain classes of 3rd applications
> > and their use-cases). I.e. in regards to 3rd party applications, the
> > policies could be considered work-in-progress.
> >
> >
> > Things that could potentially be done for 3rd party applications
> > policy handling:
> >
> > - Default policy is improved in regards to unknown processes.
> > It's yet unknown whether this can be done well enough without
> > sacrificing the known functionality, that's why feedback is needed
> > on the behavior of 3rd party application use-cases.
> >
> > - Applications themselves specify the required policy on install.
> > This is extra work for apps, and requires extensive testing to
> > guarantee that the policy they choose is good match for
> > the application in all cases. (application doesn't leak or
> > otherwise hog resources)
> >
> > - Some way for user to specify per-application policy.
> > I'm sure power-users would like that... :-)
> >
> >
> > - Eero
> > _______________________________________________
> > maemo-developers mailing list
> > maemo-developers [at] maemo
> > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-developers mailing list
> maemo-developers [at] maemo
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers

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kimmo.hamalainen at nokia

Nov 19, 2009, 12:25 AM

Post #16 of 16 (1821 views)
Permalink

Re: Bug#6203, rotation and OHMD [In reply to]

On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 17:44 +0100, ext Cornelius Hald wrote:
> I see many use cases for those policies like an incoming phone call
> should work properly even while some app is doing heavy number
> crunching.
>
> However rotation is a different thing. I mean what's the objective? The
> rotation animation should be smooth even if something uses a lot of
> processing time? Fair enough. But pausing the _foreground_ application
> is hardly the solution. How about pausing all _background_ applications?

You are right. This is the bug :)

-Kimmo

>
> The foreground application is the only application interested in the
> rotation. Therefore it already specifies explicitly that it can rotate.
> If I now write an application it's my duty to give the CPU some time
> while rotating. If I don't do this, _my_ application looks shitty and
> everyone will tell me. It's not the platform that gets a bad reputation,
> it's my app.
>
> So, if anything should get paused, it's all applications which are not
> white listed and which are not in the foreground.
>
> If I somehow missed the point, please tell me :)
>
> Cheers!
> Conny
>
>
> On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 18:07 +0200, Eero Tamminen wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > ext Eugene Antimirov wrote:
> > >> It handles also audio policies and tries to make sure that you get
> > >> your phone calls when the device is heavily loaded and some other
> > >> minor things.
> > >
> > > Just to know.
> > >
> > > I see now this `ohmd` process in my 41-10. I did not get it, was this
> > > daemon improved or made worse in new firmware released lately?
> >
> > Better for known (pre-installed) applications, worse for unknown
> > applications. The reason for this is that unknown applications have
> > unknown resource usage so system policy treats them with more care.
> >
> >
> > It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Changing the policy is slow
> > iterative work requiring lots of testing that the policy change doesn't
> > significantly worsen other use-cases in some situations (e.g. for things
> > for which there are certain certification & legal requirements).
> >
> > Developers can now experiment and report/discuss things which they would
> > like policy to handle better (for certain classes of 3rd applications
> > and their use-cases). I.e. in regards to 3rd party applications, the
> > policies could be considered work-in-progress.
> >
> >
> > Things that could potentially be done for 3rd party applications
> > policy handling:
> >
> > - Default policy is improved in regards to unknown processes.
> > It's yet unknown whether this can be done well enough without
> > sacrificing the known functionality, that's why feedback is needed
> > on the behavior of 3rd party application use-cases.
> >
> > - Applications themselves specify the required policy on install.
> > This is extra work for apps, and requires extensive testing to
> > guarantee that the policy they choose is good match for
> > the application in all cases. (application doesn't leak or
> > otherwise hog resources)
> >
> > - Some way for user to specify per-application policy.
> > I'm sure power-users would like that... :-)
> >
> >
> > - Eero
> > _______________________________________________
> > maemo-developers mailing list
> > maemo-developers [at] maemo
> > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
>
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-developers mailing list
> maemo-developers [at] maemo
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers

_______________________________________________
maemo-developers mailing list
maemo-developers [at] maemo
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers

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