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N810 AGPS?

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S.G.Pickering at bath

Jan 30, 2008, 2:47 PM

Post #1 of 8 (15254 views)
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N810 AGPS?

Just wondering if AGPS is enabled, or could be enabled on the N810. We
have a chip which supports it (Ti NaviLink GPS5300). The question
(mainly aimed at Nokians) is whether or not they can release a bit
more info to make this possible.

We could do AGPS LTO (Long term orbit) for example over Wifi (assuming
this isn't already in the pipeline and is not impossible due to
something missing from the chip, etc.).

I see that gpsdriver creates/uses/modifies a file called
/var/lib/gsp/nvd_data which contains a few headings and lots of
numbers. I've had a quick look at these but can't work out what they
are, but the numbers certainly change (e.g. from one day to the next
at the very least in my minimal testing). Anyone with more experience
of GPS-y things have any ideas what these might represent?

I also see there's a file called gps_last_saved_report which is
presumably fed back to the GPS to avoid a cold start (and to give it
credit, the latter starts are certainly faster, just not AGPS faster,
afai have heard they should be anyway).

Any thoughts?

Cheers,

Simon

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roadmapformaemo at gmail

Jan 30, 2008, 4:51 PM

Post #2 of 8 (14604 views)
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Re: N810 AGPS? [In reply to]

On 1/30/08, Simon Pickering <S.G.Pickering [at] bath> wrote:
>
> Just wondering if AGPS is enabled, or could be enabled on the N810. We
> have a chip which supports it (Ti NaviLink GPS5300). The question
> (mainly aimed at Nokians) is whether or not they can release a bit
> more info to make this possible.
>
> We could do AGPS LTO (Long term orbit) for example over Wifi (assuming
> this isn't already in the pipeline and is not impossible due to
> something missing from the chip, etc.).
>
> I see that gpsdriver creates/uses/modifies a file called
> /var/lib/gsp/nvd_data which contains a few headings and lots of
> numbers. I've had a quick look at these but can't work out what they
> are, but the numbers certainly change (e.g. from one day to the next
> at the very least in my minimal testing). Anyone with more experience
> of GPS-y things have any ideas what these might represent?
>
> I also see there's a file called gps_last_saved_report which is
> presumably fed back to the GPS to avoid a cold start (and to give it
> credit, the latter starts are certainly faster, just not AGPS faster,
> afai have heard they should be anyway).
>
> Any thoughts?

I've been thinking the same...

Namely, can we build an agps server into the n8x0 to have the cpu
assist the gps chip?
(i.e.- set the agps to localhost and compute location on the ARM.)

cheers,
kernelpanic
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dariusjack2006 at yahoo

Jan 30, 2008, 7:28 PM

Post #3 of 8 (14601 views)
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Re: N810 AGPS? [In reply to]

Hi,
as Navteq's developer I developed some LBS systems and your N810 can play
GSM-AGPS, WiFi-AGPS.
Frankly speaking I have never tested any of my 2 AGPS enabled NEC 616V cell phones for navigation as I have got 2 bt gps, 2 usb gps devices and they work fine and fast. My another gps enabled cell phone Motorola A1000 (agps as I suppose) never started to work fine due to gps signal loss and long fix times.

Darius

Simon Pickering <S.G.Pickering [at] bath> wrote:
Just wondering if AGPS is enabled, or could be enabled on the N810. We
have a chip which supports it (Ti NaviLink GPS5300). The question
(mainly aimed at Nokians) is whether or not they can release a bit
more info to make this possible.

We could do AGPS LTO (Long term orbit) for example over Wifi (assuming
this isn't already in the pipeline and is not impossible due to
something missing from the chip, etc.).

I see that gpsdriver creates/uses/modifies a file called
/var/lib/gsp/nvd_data which contains a few headings and lots of
numbers. I've had a quick look at these but can't work out what they
are, but the numbers certainly change (e.g. from one day to the next
at the very least in my minimal testing). Anyone with more experience
of GPS-y things have any ideas what these might represent?

I also see there's a file called gps_last_saved_report which is
presumably fed back to the GPS to avoid a cold start (and to give it
credit, the latter starts are certainly faster, just not AGPS faster,
afai have heard they should be anyway).

Any thoughts?

Cheers,

Simon

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roadmapformaemo at gmail

Jan 30, 2008, 9:59 PM

Post #4 of 8 (14605 views)
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Re: N810 AGPS? [In reply to]

I've heard a lot of complaints about time to fix for GPS on the n810.
If there's a way to read the raw gps data and do the initial ephemeris
processing and location calculation with the ARM processor, I'm all
ears!

Charles Werbick

On 1/30/08, Darius Jack <dariusjack2006 [at] yahoo> wrote:
> Hi,
> as Navteq's developer I developed some LBS systems and your N810 can play
> GSM-AGPS, WiFi-AGPS.
> Frankly speaking I have never tested any of my 2 AGPS enabled NEC 616V cell
> phones for navigation as I have got 2 bt gps, 2 usb gps devices and they
> work fine and fast. My another gps enabled cell phone Motorola A1000 (agps
> as I suppose) never started to work fine due to gps signal loss and long fix
> times.
>
> Darius
>
>
>
> Simon Pickering <S.G.Pickering [at] bath> wrote:
>
> Just wondering if AGPS is enabled, or could be enabled on the N810. We
> have a chip which supports it (Ti NaviLink GPS5300). The question
> (mainly aimed at Nokians) is whether or not they can release a bit
> more info to make this possible.
>
> We could do AGPS LTO (Long term orbit) for example over Wifi (assuming
> this isn't already in the pipeline and is not impossible due to
> something missing from the chip, etc.).
>
> I see that gpsdriver creates/uses/modifies a file called
> /var/lib/gsp/nvd_data which contains a few headings and lots of
> numbers. I've had a quick look at these but can't work out what they
> are, but the numbers certainly change (e.g. from one day to the next
> at the very least in my minimal testing). Anyone with more experience
> of GPS-y things have any ideas what these might represent?
>
> I also see there's a file called gps_last_saved_report which is
> presumably fed back to the GPS to avoid a cold start (and to give it
> credit, the latter starts are certainly faster, just not AGPS faster,
> afai have heard they should be anyway).
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Simon
>
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-developers mailing list
> maemo-developers [at] maemo
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
>
>
>
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> _______________________________________________
> maemo-developers mailing list
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>
>
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andrew at bleb

Jan 31, 2008, 12:38 AM

Post #5 of 8 (14627 views)
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Re: N810 AGPS? [In reply to]

On Jan 30, 2008 10:47 PM, Simon Pickering <S.G.Pickering [at] bath> wrote:
>
> Just wondering if AGPS is enabled, or could be enabled on the N810. We
> have a chip which supports it (Ti NaviLink GPS5300). The question
> (mainly aimed at Nokians) is whether or not they can release a bit
> more info to make this possible.

Interestingly, Skyhook Wireless - who have provided the ESSID
triangulation for the iPod Touch - have a Maemo 3.1 SDK on their
website (post-registration).

I succeeded in getting it to segfault on chinook, so dropped them an
email asking if they had plans for a Maemo 4.0 SDK.

Combining the GPS with wifi triangulation, whether to do AGPS or just
greater tolerance of built-up, indoors areas could be very cool.

Cheers,

Andrew

--
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew [at] bleb | http://www.bleb.org/
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S.G.Pickering at bath

Jan 31, 2008, 1:41 AM

Post #6 of 8 (14593 views)
Permalink

Re: N810 AGPS? [In reply to]

>> Just wondering if AGPS is enabled, or could be enabled on the N810. We
>> have a chip which supports it (Ti NaviLink GPS5300). The question
>> (mainly aimed at Nokians) is whether or not they can release a bit
>> more info to make this possible.
>
> Interestingly, Skyhook Wireless - who have provided the ESSID
> triangulation for the iPod Touch - have a Maemo 3.1 SDK on their
> website (post-registration).
>
> I succeeded in getting it to segfault on chinook, so dropped them an
> email asking if they had plans for a Maemo 4.0 SDK.
>
> Combining the GPS with wifi triangulation, whether to do AGPS or just
> greater tolerance of built-up, indoors areas could be very cool.

Wifi triangulation on its own would be pretty cool (another location
method for geoclue), and if we could use that, or other non-GPS
location data, to provide a better set of Ephemeris data for the GPS
(rather than just supplying the Almanac data, which is what I guess
A-GPS LTO does) to improve lock times that would be an added bonus.

Simon

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dariusjack2006 at yahoo

Jan 31, 2008, 3:39 PM

Post #7 of 8 (14608 views)
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Re: N810 AGPS? [In reply to]

Hi,

WiFi triangulation = kismet built database of Wifi hotspots.
Triangulation algorithm is well known and already implemented in cell phones for
base station tower triangulation.

Are you aware what patents have been granted in this area ?

" from webpage"
http://www.skyhookwireless.com/press/skyhookapple.php

"The patented technology behind WPS leverages that database to provide location information. "

There is already a number of providers claiming to offer Wifi-based AGPS.

Darius

Simon Pickering <S.G.Pickering [at] bath> wrote:
>> Just wondering if AGPS is enabled, or could be enabled on the N810. We
>> have a chip which supports it (Ti NaviLink GPS5300). The question
>> (mainly aimed at Nokians) is whether or not they can release a bit
>> more info to make this possible.
>
> Interestingly, Skyhook Wireless - who have provided the ESSID
> triangulation for the iPod Touch - have a Maemo 3.1 SDK on their
> website (post-registration).
>
> I succeeded in getting it to segfault on chinook, so dropped them an
> email asking if they had plans for a Maemo 4.0 SDK.
>
> Combining the GPS with wifi triangulation, whether to do AGPS or just
> greater tolerance of built-up, indoors areas could be very cool.

Wifi triangulation on its own would be pretty cool (another location
method for geoclue), and if we could use that, or other non-GPS
location data, to provide a better set of Ephemeris data for the GPS
(rather than just supplying the Almanac data, which is what I guess
A-GPS LTO does) to improve lock times that would be an added bonus.

Simon

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maemo-developers mailing list
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raphael.jacquot at imag

Jan 31, 2008, 10:42 PM

Post #8 of 8 (14571 views)
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Re: N810 AGPS? [In reply to]

Darius Jack wrote:
> Hi,
>
> WiFi triangulation = kismet built database of Wifi hotspots.
> Triangulation algorithm is well known and already implemented in cell
> phones for
> base station tower triangulation.
>
> Are you aware what patents have been granted in this area ?
>
> " from webpage"
> http://www.skyhookwireless.com/press/skyhookapple.php
>
> "The patented technology behind WPS leverages that database to provide
> location information. "

i smell bullshit as usual :-)

> There is already a number of providers claiming to offer Wifi-based AGPS.
>
> Darius
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