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What will be your next Maemo device

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luc.pionchon at nokia

Dec 20, 2005, 5:29 AM

Post #1 of 11 (596 views)
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What will be your next Maemo device

Hi,

What will be your next Maemo device? I do not know, really.

My major concern is, will Maemo be ready for it?

Bigger screen? Smaller like S60 phones? Two screens like Communicators?
Landscape? Portrait? What's about input methods? A full keyboard? A
reduced keyboard like standard phones? Or an improved virtual keyboard?
What's about dedicated hardware buttons? And Softkeys? 2 like phones? 4
like Communicators? More? Oh! Shall we play more with available
technology? Rotate and resize on the fly? Display migration?
Applications should reorganize their layout depending of the screen(s)
configuration. Can we reasonably use SVG icons?

OK, I stop here. You got my point. Whatever is the device of your
dreams, we want to be ready to support it by making Maemo as scalable as
possible.

Let's stretch, shrink, whirl, squeeze Maemo UI!

Here is a raw list of technical items related to scalability.
Feel free to experiment, comment and extend!

http://maemo.org/maemowiki/MaemoScalability

Br,
luc
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zindar at gmail

Dec 20, 2005, 7:29 AM

Post #2 of 11 (572 views)
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Re: What will be your next Maemo device [In reply to]

My first thinking when it comes to this is to port maemo to an
existing machine, such as a IPAQ which already runs linux and today
GPE.

But Maemo is so much nicer than GPE. The screen is really different
on the IPAQ and the 770. And changing the orientation between
landscape or not, is very important on the IPAQ.

/Erik

2005/12/20, Luc Pionchon <luc.pionchon [at] nokia>:
> Hi,
>
> What will be your next Maemo device? I do not know, really.
>
> My major concern is, will Maemo be ready for it?
>
> Bigger screen? Smaller like S60 phones? Two screens like Communicators?
> Landscape? Portrait? What's about input methods? A full keyboard? A
> reduced keyboard like standard phones? Or an improved virtual keyboard?
> What's about dedicated hardware buttons? And Softkeys? 2 like phones? 4
> like Communicators? More? Oh! Shall we play more with available
> technology? Rotate and resize on the fly? Display migration?
> Applications should reorganize their layout depending of the screen(s)
> configuration. Can we reasonably use SVG icons?
>
> OK, I stop here. You got my point. Whatever is the device of your
> dreams, we want to be ready to support it by making Maemo as scalable as
> possible.
>
> Let's stretch, shrink, whirl, squeeze Maemo UI!
>
> Here is a raw list of technical items related to scalability.
> Feel free to experiment, comment and extend!
>
> http://maemo.org/maemowiki/MaemoScalability
>
> Br,
> luc
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-developers mailing list
> maemo-developers [at] maemo
> https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
>
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luc.pionchon at nokia

Dec 21, 2005, 5:03 AM

Post #3 of 11 (569 views)
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Re: What will be your next Maemo device [In reply to]

Hi,

On Tue, 2005-12-20 at 16:29 +0100, ext Erik Bågfors wrote:
> My first thinking when it comes to this is to port maemo to an
> existing machine, such as a IPAQ which already runs linux and today
> GPE.

Sounds like a great idea.

Did anyone out there give it a try already?

>
> But Maemo is so much nicer than GPE.

Working on both Maemo and GPE, I won't comment this ;)
(besides that each could learn from the other at several levels)

I extended a bit the list with more thoughts, see
http://maemo.org/maemowiki/MaemoScalability

Br,
luc

> The screen is really different
> on the IPAQ and the 770. And changing the orientation between
> landscape or not, is very important on the IPAQ.
>
> /Erik
>
>
> 2005/12/20, Luc Pionchon <luc.pionchon [at] nokia>:
> > Hi,
> >
> > What will be your next Maemo device? I do not know, really.
> >
> > My major concern is, will Maemo be ready for it?
> >
> > Bigger screen? Smaller like S60 phones? Two screens like Communicators?
> > Landscape? Portrait? What's about input methods? A full keyboard? A
> > reduced keyboard like standard phones? Or an improved virtual keyboard?
> > What's about dedicated hardware buttons? And Softkeys? 2 like phones? 4
> > like Communicators? More? Oh! Shall we play more with available
> > technology? Rotate and resize on the fly? Display migration?
> > Applications should reorganize their layout depending of the screen(s)
> > configuration. Can we reasonably use SVG icons?
> >
> > OK, I stop here. You got my point. Whatever is the device of your
> > dreams, we want to be ready to support it by making Maemo as scalable as
> > possible.
> >
> > Let's stretch, shrink, whirl, squeeze Maemo UI!
> >
> > Here is a raw list of technical items related to scalability.
> > Feel free to experiment, comment and extend!
> >
> > http://maemo.org/maemowiki/MaemoScalability
> >
> > Br,
> > luc
> > _______________________________________________
> > maemo-developers mailing list
> > maemo-developers [at] maemo
> > https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
> >
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koen at handhelds

Dec 21, 2005, 5:29 AM

Post #4 of 11 (569 views)
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Re: What will be your next Maemo device [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Luc Pionchon wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Tue, 2005-12-20 at 16:29 +0100, ext Erik Bågfors wrote:
>
>>My first thinking when it comes to this is to port maemo to an
>>existing machine, such as a IPAQ which already runs linux and today
>>GPE.
>
>
> Sounds like a great idea.
>
> Did anyone out there give it a try already?

It's as easy as pointing $DISPLAY to your handheld:
http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/blog/pyblosxom.cgi/2005/May/29

regards,

Koen

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florian.boor at kernelconcepts

Dec 21, 2005, 7:05 AM

Post #5 of 11 (570 views)
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Re: What will be your next Maemo device [In reply to]

Hi,

Koen Kooi wrote:
> It's as easy as pointing $DISPLAY to your handheld:
> http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/blog/pyblosxom.cgi/2005/May/29

that an interesting screenshot because it illustrates some basic scalablility
issues even at 640x480 which isn't that different from the 770. Porting Maemo to
a common 240x320 PDA will be challenging, but i really want to have support for
this in future!

Greetings

Florian

--
The dream of yesterday Florian Boor
is the hope of today Tel: 0271-771091-14
and the reality of tomorrow. Fax: 0271-771091-19
[Robert Hutchings Goddard, 1904] florian.boor [at] kernelconcepts

6C 44 30 4C 43 20 6B 61 16 07 0F AA E6 97 70 A8
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russell.geldmacher at gmail

Dec 21, 2005, 7:18 AM

Post #6 of 11 (572 views)
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Re: What will be your next Maemo device [In reply to]

Right, you don't even need the Zaurus for that ... just change your
Xephyr resolution to 640x480 and you'll see the same effect (makes it
easier for developers to see the problem).

rusty

On 12/21/05, Koen Kooi <koen [at] handhelds> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Luc Pionchon wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On Tue, 2005-12-20 at 16:29 +0100, ext Erik Bågfors wrote:
> >
> >>My first thinking when it comes to this is to port maemo to an
> >>existing machine, such as a IPAQ which already runs linux and today
> >>GPE.
> >
> >
> > Sounds like a great idea.
> >
> > Did anyone out there give it a try already?
>
> It's as easy as pointing $DISPLAY to your handheld:
> http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/blog/pyblosxom.cgi/2005/May/29
>
> regards,
>
> Koen
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin)
>
> iD8DBQFDqVi+MkyGM64RGpERAveKAJ9b9K8gIy1y2ePBylxVtUHCY4YlUACeIg1e
> C6JzxrdrXmck7OPHZYMqBZ0=
> =Vc2D
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-developers mailing list
> maemo-developers [at] maemo
> https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
>
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eero.tamminen at movial

Dec 21, 2005, 7:24 AM

Post #7 of 11 (573 views)
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Re: What will be your next Maemo device [In reply to]

Hi,

> that an interesting screenshot because it illustrates some basic
> scalablility issues even at 640x480 which isn't that different from
> the 770.

Is there anything that couldn't be fixed just by finetuning the
theme files i.e. without touching any code?

The titlebar is just single large image. By:
- changing titlebar gfx to uglier tiled one, and
- setting statusbar panel to more suitable position
in the Matchbox theme should fix the most obvious problems.

There would still be the problem that application title will have
very little space to show the text.

> Porting Maemo to a common 240x320 PDA will be challenging

I think you'll need completely new application layouts, or
in case the physical screen size is the same, just make the font
much smaller and fine-tune the theme files.

- Eero

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koen at handhelds

Dec 21, 2005, 7:27 AM

Post #8 of 11 (578 views)
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Re: What will be your next Maemo device [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Eero Tamminen wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
>>that an interesting screenshot because it illustrates some basic
>>scalablility issues even at 640x480 which isn't that different from
>>the 770.
>
>
> Is there anything that couldn't be fixed just by finetuning the
> theme files i.e. without touching any code?
>
> The titlebar is just single large image. By:
> - changing titlebar gfx to uglier tiled one, and
> - setting statusbar panel to more suitable position
> in the Matchbox theme should fix the most obvious problems.
>
> There would still be the problem that application title will have
> very little space to show the text.
>
>
>
>>Porting Maemo to a common 240x320 PDA will be challenging
>
>
> I think you'll need completely new application layouts, or
> in case the physical screen size is the same, just make the font
> much smaller and fine-tune the theme files.

If maemo had a notion of DPI this would be much easier, but as Tommi
pointed out, requires us to fix most of the internets css files :(

regards,

Koen

>
>
> - Eero
>
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-developers mailing list
> maemo-developers [at] maemo
> https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
>

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eero.tamminen at movial

Dec 21, 2005, 7:50 AM

Post #9 of 11 (583 views)
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Re: What will be your next Maemo device [In reply to]

Hi,

> If maemo had a notion of DPI this would be much easier, but as
> Tommi pointed out, requires us to fix most of the internets css files

I don't quite see what CSS files have to do with changing theme
font sizes.

Why you cannot just change the font sizes listed by:
grep font_name /usr/share/themes/*/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
grep "font " /usr/share/themes/*/matchbox/theme.xml
?

(And note that there's no way you could handle this just by DPI or font
sizes if you care about looks quality. The font size is supposed
to match with the theme gfx, such as the fairly constant colored area
in titlebars so that text appears properly centered to it, not too
small compared to the reserved space etc.)

- Eero

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luc.pionchon at nokia

Dec 21, 2005, 12:21 PM

Post #10 of 11 (574 views)
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Re: What will be your next Maemo device [In reply to]

Hi koen, rusty,

You are correct regarding UI and screen size. It shows where it breaks.
(There is no surprised here). But *porting* Maemo to other devices will
show assumptions based on 770 others than just screen size, we may have
surprises.

What's about dedicated hardkeys? iPAQ and 770 have different sets. Maemo
assumes at least home|menu|cancel|fullscreen|zoom. How do you zoom in
fullscreen mode on an iPAQ? iPAQs could use softkeys. Zaurus has full
qwerty keyboard. Can Maemo run on a 32Mo iPAQ? etc. In short how much
Maemo is tight to 770 hardware?

The more devices/configurations are tested the more we can fix Maemo to
make it "ready for any device". We would be pleased to hear from other
experiments. iPAQ is a good target to start with.

So if you play with Maemo on other devices, let us know!

Br,
luc

On Wed, 2005-12-21 at 10:18 -0500, ext Russell Geldmacher wrote:
> Right, you don't even need the Zaurus for that ... just change your
> Xephyr resolution to 640x480 and you'll see the same effect (makes it
> easier for developers to see the problem).
>
> rusty
>
> On 12/21/05, Koen Kooi <koen [at] handhelds> wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Luc Pionchon wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > On Tue, 2005-12-20 at 16:29 +0100, ext Erik Bågfors wrote:
> > >
> > >>My first thinking when it comes to this is to port maemo to an
> > >>existing machine, such as a IPAQ which already runs linux and today
> > >>GPE.
> > >
> > >
> > > Sounds like a great idea.
> > >
> > > Did anyone out there give it a try already?
> >
> > It's as easy as pointing $DISPLAY to your handheld:
> > http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/blog/pyblosxom.cgi/2005/May/29
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Koen
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin)
> >
> > iD8DBQFDqVi+MkyGM64RGpERAveKAJ9b9K8gIy1y2ePBylxVtUHCY4YlUACeIg1e
> > C6JzxrdrXmck7OPHZYMqBZ0=
> > =Vc2D
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > _______________________________________________
> > maemo-developers mailing list
> > maemo-developers [at] maemo
> > https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-developers mailing list
> maemo-developers [at] maemo
> https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
_______________________________________________
maemo-developers mailing list
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barbieri at gmail

Dec 21, 2005, 3:28 PM

Post #11 of 11 (581 views)
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Re: What will be your next Maemo device [In reply to]

On 12/21/05, Luc Pionchon <luc.pionchon [at] nokia> wrote:
> Hi koen, rusty,
>
> You are correct regarding UI and screen size. It shows where it breaks.
> (There is no surprised here). But *porting* Maemo to other devices will
> show assumptions based on 770 others than just screen size, we may have
> surprises.

+1

While I think that we should think general, I also think that we
should work on problems when we come to them. Right now maemo have
other kind of problems that we may solve, some are general and will
help other fronts, like making things a bit faster and better PIM and
its integration with various desktops and operating systems.

OT: I'm going nuts until my device doesn't arrives!!! I want to give
it a try with PIM and help out with problems... I really want to
replace my Palm Vx with something better! And as I'll be in vacation
for about 2 months, I'll have much time to work on this!

--
Gustavo Sverzut Barbieri
--------------------------------------
Computer Engineer 2001 - UNICAMP
Mobile: +55 (19) 9165 8010
Phone: +1 (347) 624 6296; 08122692 [at] sip
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