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Using the N770/N800 as a remote control.

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jonsmirl at gmail

Jan 9, 2007, 4:44 PM

Post #1 of 18 (2551 views)
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Using the N770/N800 as a remote control.

Did a SIR transmitter make in into the N800? I have a Phillips RC9800i
remote control and I would like to replace it with my N770 or a N800.
http://www.hometheatermag.com/accessories/0406philips/

I've been looking around for a IR transmitter/receiver in the form of
a USB dongle and can't find one. You need a receiver in addition to
the transmitter so that you can train the remote codes.

It only costs a couple of dollars to build a remote compatible IR
transmit/receiver USB dongle. Adding this capability would be very
useful given the way I use my N770.

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daniel.stone at nokia

Jan 9, 2007, 4:57 PM

Post #2 of 18 (2336 views)
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Re: Using the N770/N800 as a remote control. [In reply to]

On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 07:44:18PM -0500, ext Jon Smirl wrote:
> Did a SIR transmitter make in into the N800? I have a Phillips RC9800i
> remote control and I would like to replace it with my N770 or a N800.
> http://www.hometheatermag.com/accessories/0406philips/

No, it did not.

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jonsmirl at gmail

Jan 9, 2007, 5:29 PM

Post #3 of 18 (2337 views)
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Re: Using the N770/N800 as a remote control. [In reply to]

On 1/9/07, Daniel Stone <daniel.stone [at] nokia> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 09, 2007 at 07:44:18PM -0500, ext Jon Smirl wrote:
> > Did a SIR transmitter make in into the N800? I have a Phillips RC9800i
> > remote control and I would like to replace it with my N770 or a N800.
> > http://www.hometheatermag.com/accessories/0406philips/
>
> No, it did not.

You can get IrDA versions everywhere.
http://www.buyextras.com/irdaadapters.html?gclid=CNDDxsHW1IkCFRFBgQodfF4i4Q
But these are in the wrong frequency band for a remote control.

The software is more interesting than the hardware. For example you
could extract program guides from tv.yahoo.com. The Philips device has
an activity based UI. You click on watch DVD and it turns on the TV,
DVD and stereo and then sets everything to the right inputs.

This would make a good add-on product if Nokia is interested.

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klaus at rotters

Jan 9, 2007, 6:40 PM

Post #4 of 18 (2310 views)
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Re: Using the N770/N800 as a remote control. [In reply to]

Jon Smirl wrote:
> You can get IrDA versions everywhere.
> http://www.buyextras.com/irdaadapters.html?gclid=CNDDxsHW1IkCFRFBgQodfF4i4Q
> But these are in the wrong frequency band for a remote control.

There is another problem: The N770 has a USB-Host mode (which is
necessary if you want to run such IrDA adapters) but it does not power
the USB port. I have made an adapter cable to power 5 Volts to an
external HDD drive via USB and it worked very well. But I think for a IR
transmitter this solution would be very unhandy.

It would be interesting if the N800 has a "powered" USB hostmode...

-Klaus--
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bmidgley at xmission

Jan 9, 2007, 6:49 PM

Post #5 of 18 (2309 views)
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Re: Using the N770/N800 as a remote control. [In reply to]

hey

> There is another problem: The N770 has a USB-Host mode (which is
> necessary if you want to run such IrDA adapters) but it does not power
> the USB port. I have made an adapter cable to power 5 Volts to an
> external HDD drive via USB and it worked very well. But I think for a IR
> transmitter this solution would be very unhandy.

by the time you do all this you'll wonder why you're not using wifi or
bluetooth to send commands. It would be easier to set up a pc that will
relay commands over IR or a media pc that will just act on them.

Brad
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jonsmirl at gmail

Jan 9, 2007, 6:52 PM

Post #6 of 18 (2298 views)
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Re: Using the N770/N800 as a remote control. [In reply to]

On 1/9/07, klaus [at] rotters <klaus [at] rotters> wrote:
> Jon Smirl wrote:
> > You can get IrDA versions everywhere.
> > http://www.buyextras.com/irdaadapters.html?gclid=CNDDxsHW1IkCFRFBgQodfF4i4Q
> > But these are in the wrong frequency band for a remote control.
>
> There is another problem: The N770 has a USB-Host mode (which is
> necessary if you want to run such IrDA adapters) but it does not power
> the USB port. I have made an adapter cable to power 5 Volts to an
> external HDD drive via USB and it worked very well. But I think for a IR
> transmitter this solution would be very unhandy.

Is it no power at all, or just not very much power? With no power you
can't even use a USB memory dongle. Hard disks take way more power
than a USB port can provide. IR transmitter doesn't need much power,
the one I am using now says it needs 100mA. And that's a peak value.

>
> It would be interesting if the N800 has a "powered" USB hostmode...
>
> -Klaus--
> Klaus Rotter * klaus <at> rotters <dot> de * www.rotters.de
>
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-developers mailing list
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>

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jonsmirl at gmail

Jan 9, 2007, 6:58 PM

Post #7 of 18 (2307 views)
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Re: Using the N770/N800 as a remote control. [In reply to]

On 1/9/07, Brad Midgley <bmidgley [at] xmission> wrote:
> hey
>
> > There is another problem: The N770 has a USB-Host mode (which is
> > necessary if you want to run such IrDA adapters) but it does not power
> > the USB port. I have made an adapter cable to power 5 Volts to an
> > external HDD drive via USB and it worked very well. But I think for a IR
> > transmitter this solution would be very unhandy.
>
> by the time you do all this you'll wonder why you're not using wifi or
> bluetooth to send commands. It would be easier to set up a pc that will
> relay commands over IR or a media pc that will just act on them.

Phillips RC9800i has both IR and 802.11g. I got the IR support working
in half an hour and I still haven't gotten around to building a
computer to relay IR signals over 11g.

My media server is located in the basement. I use a UPNP AV player
like the DSM-520 to play the media. There is no general purpose PC
located near the TV. This set up works well to support playing media
from TV's in four different rooms.

The other trouble with using radio is the you have to tell the remote
which room it is in. IR doesn't travel between rooms. If you carry an
IR remote to another room, it won't still control the TV in the first
room.

>
> Brad
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-developers mailing list
> maemo-developers [at] maemo
> https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
>

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kate at katix

Jan 10, 2007, 12:03 AM

Post #8 of 18 (2297 views)
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Re: Using the N770/N800 as a remote control. [In reply to]

> Did a SIR transmitter make in into the N800? I have a Phillips RC9800i
> remote control and I would like to replace it with my N770 or a N800.
> http://www.hometheatermag.com/accessories/0406philips/
>
> I've been looking around for a IR transmitter/receiver in the form of
> a USB dongle and can't find one. You need a receiver in addition to
> the transmitter so that you can train the remote codes.
>
> It only costs a couple of dollars to build a remote compatible IR
> transmit/receiver USB dongle. Adding this capability would be very
> useful given the way I use my N770.

As mentioned already, IR transmitter needs a power. Also it is more
kludge than handy have IR transmitter hanging in 770.

I have planned and even tested to use 770 for remote controlling apliances.
I have used Linksys WRT54GL with openwrt ( http://www.openwrt.org ) as
software platform. The WRT54 works as gateway to the physical interfaces.
It has with Openwrt open Linux environment where you can program anything
you like. It has serial port and few free i/o pins where you could connect
IR transmitter and it costs something 70 Euros. I have experimented this with
controlling electric outlets via Single-wire(tm) connected semiconductor relays.

In this way you can keet your 770/N800 intact without any hack needed to it.
The WRT54 still works also as wlan basestation and you can controll your
things from any room via wlan.

Kate
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dave at cridland

Jan 10, 2007, 1:49 AM

Post #9 of 18 (2289 views)
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Re: Using the N770/N800 as a remote control. [In reply to]

On Wed Jan 10 02:58:24 2007, Jon Smirl wrote:
> The other trouble with using radio is the you have to tell the
> remote
> which room it is in. IR doesn't travel between rooms. If you carry
> an
> IR remote to another room, it won't still control the TV in the
> first
> room.

You could use a GPS receiver to sort that out, then have your music
follow you about the house.

Dave. (Now scared someone will actually *do* this)
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kees.jongenburger at gmail

Jan 10, 2007, 2:29 AM

Post #10 of 18 (2292 views)
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Re: Using the N770/N800 as a remote control. [In reply to]

> You could use a GPS receiver to sort that out, then have your music
> follow you about the house.
I guess it is cheaper and does not require you to carry a gps receiver
to have a few wifi spots or bt receivers and measure the signal
strength on the wifi spot/bt reciever.

>
> Dave. (Now scared someone will actually *do* this)
Scare no more, I have started playing with implementing such a thing
based on bt and sweex routers because that would also work If i only
carry a bt enabled phone with me. but this was really a fun project.
but there are great commercial possibilities.

greetings
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klaus at rotters

Jan 10, 2007, 3:30 AM

Post #11 of 18 (2295 views)
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Re: Using the N770/N800 as a remote control. [In reply to]

Am 9 Jan 2007 um 21:52 hat Jon Smirl geschrieben:
> Is it no power at all, or just not very much power? With no power you

No power. Rumors said, that it is because there is nowehere inside the N770 +5 Volt, the
device runs with 3.3 V or less. Since I don't have the schematics, I can't prove that.

Another possibillity:

Some LCD's need +5 Volt (or more). But maybe the switching regulator (which creates 5
Volts out of the LiIon 3,8 V accu can only deliver the power for the LCD and nothing more.

It would be nice if the new N800 can drive USB memory sticks. This in addition to the two
SD-Slots would really make fun!

-Klaus--
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jonsmirl at gmail

Jan 10, 2007, 6:36 AM

Post #12 of 18 (2311 views)
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Re: Using the N770/N800 as a remote control. [In reply to]

On 1/10/07, klaus [at] rotters <klaus [at] rotters> wrote:
> Am 9 Jan 2007 um 21:52 hat Jon Smirl geschrieben:
> > Is it no power at all, or just not very much power? With no power you
>
> No power. Rumors said, that it is because there is nowehere inside the N770 +5 Volt, the
> device runs with 3.3 V or less. Since I don't have the schematics, I can't prove that.

So how about the N800, does it have power? Is it a complete USB OTG
implementation?

770 puts out a USB OTG descriptor when it isn't compliant.

On 1/10/07, David Brownell <david-b [at] pacbell> wrote:
> On Tuesday 09 January 2007 10:26 pm, Jon Smirl wrote:
> > On 1/9/07, David Brownell <david-b [at] pacbell> wrote:
> > > > It has a high speed USB
> > > > OTG port (host/client)
> > >
> > > That's the N800 ... uses a TUSB6010 chip, the driver for which was a PITA
> > > but it basically works. (And the CPU is much faster than the N770; it
> > > uses an ARMv6 CPU, running at a faster clock rate.)
> > >
> > > As I understand, the device has a Mini-B port, not a Mini-AB. But other
> > > than that it's pretty much ready to be a dual-role device ... not full
> > > fledged OTG yet, but I've certainly observed the cable based role switch
> > > stuff to work.
> >
> > 770 is supposed to have OTG too.
>
> Not without providing at least 8ma VBUS power and a Mini-AB connector
> it isn't. Instead, it provides 0mA VBUS power and a Mini-B connector. :)
>
> The Tahvo chip has a USB transceiver that's not really OTG-capable.
> But it can do "dual role", that is it can switch between host and
> peripheral modes ... which is an OTG thing, if done the OTG way.
> Which means initial role sensing via the cable connected to the Mini-AB
> port, and HNP support to automatically switch roles later.
>
>
> > I got the network to work. Seems there are problems with having the
> > net and storage running simultaneously. This has an OTG Descriptor in
> > it that is new to me.
>
> It's a standard OTG descriptor, but the device shouldn't be putting
> one out since it's not OTG-conformant.
>
> - Dave
>

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kimmo.hamalainen at nokia

Jan 11, 2007, 4:57 AM

Post #13 of 18 (2284 views)
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Re: Using the N770/N800 as a remote control. [In reply to]

On Wed, 2007-01-10 at 09:36 -0500, ext Jon Smirl wrote:
...
> So how about the N800, does it have power? Is it a complete USB OTG
> implementation?
...

AFAIK, N800 does not provide power for USB devices either.

BR, Kimmo

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jonsmirl at gmail

Jan 16, 2007, 10:50 AM

Post #14 of 18 (2252 views)
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Re: Using the N770/N800 as a remote control. [In reply to]

If only the N800 had IR support then it could be used to go after the
high end remote control market. Maybe we'll get it in the next model.

There were at least five devices like this at CES this year.
http://www.rticorp.com/products/T4.html

They are remote controls in the $1,000 to $1,500 range for high end AV
installations.

N800 has everything necessary except for the IR support. I could
easily see these vendors OEMing the N800 instead of building their
own.

On 1/9/07, Jon Smirl <jonsmirl [at] gmail> wrote:
> Did a SIR transmitter make in into the N800? I have a Phillips RC9800i
> remote control and I would like to replace it with my N770 or a N800.
> http://www.hometheatermag.com/accessories/0406philips/
>
> I've been looking around for a IR transmitter/receiver in the form of
> a USB dongle and can't find one. You need a receiver in addition to
> the transmitter so that you can train the remote codes.
>
> It only costs a couple of dollars to build a remote compatible IR
> transmit/receiver USB dongle. Adding this capability would be very
> useful given the way I use my N770.
>
> --
> Jon Smirl
> jonsmirl [at] gmail
>

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tzz at lifelogs

Jan 16, 2007, 11:53 AM

Post #15 of 18 (2272 views)
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Re: Re: Using the N770/N800 as a remote control. [In reply to]

On 16 Jan 2007, jonsmirl [at] gmail wrote:

> If only the N800 had IR support then it could be used to go after the
> high end remote control market. Maybe we'll get it in the next model.
>
> There were at least five devices like this at CES this year.
> http://www.rticorp.com/products/T4.html
>
> They are remote controls in the $1,000 to $1,500 range for high end AV
> installations.
>
> N800 has everything necessary except for the IR support. I could
> easily see these vendors OEMing the N800 instead of building their
> own.

Would it be possible to write a generic remote control for the
770/N800, which talked (over TCP/IP or Bluetooth) to a master
controller? The master controller would know that "turn TV on" really
means "send IR code xyz" but the generic remote control doesn't have
to. Are there any protocols to do this already? Also, UPnP seems to
be possible with the 770/N800 Media Streamer as a controller, IIRC.

Ted
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jonsmirl at gmail

Jan 16, 2007, 12:05 PM

Post #16 of 18 (2259 views)
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Re: Re: Using the N770/N800 as a remote control. [In reply to]

On 1/16/07, Ted Zlatanov <tzz [at] lifelogs> wrote:
> On 16 Jan 2007, jonsmirl [at] gmail wrote:
>
> > If only the N800 had IR support then it could be used to go after the
> > high end remote control market. Maybe we'll get it in the next model.
> >
> > There were at least five devices like this at CES this year.
> > http://www.rticorp.com/products/T4.html
> >
> > They are remote controls in the $1,000 to $1,500 range for high end AV
> > installations.
> >
> > N800 has everything necessary except for the IR support. I could
> > easily see these vendors OEMing the N800 instead of building their
> > own.
>
> Would it be possible to write a generic remote control for the
> 770/N800, which talked (over TCP/IP or Bluetooth) to a master
> controller? The master controller would know that "turn TV on" really
> means "send IR code xyz" but the generic remote control doesn't have
> to. Are there any protocols to do this already? Also, UPnP seems to
> be possible with the 770/N800 Media Streamer as a controller, IIRC.

There are several 11b/g to IR converter devices on the market but they
cost $600. You might as well install something like a Media Center PC.
But doing that makes the installation much more complicated than using
a simple IR transmitter. Designing IR into the N800 would add about $3
to its production cost.

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tzz at lifelogs

Jan 16, 2007, 12:42 PM

Post #17 of 18 (2260 views)
Permalink

Re: Re: Using the N770/N800 as a remote control. [In reply to]

On 16 Jan 2007, jonsmirl [at] gmail wrote:

On 1/16/07, Ted Zlatanov <tzz [at] lifelogs> wrote:
> > Would it be possible to write a generic remote control for the
> > 770/N800, which talked (over TCP/IP or Bluetooth) to a master
> > controller? The master controller would know that "turn TV on" really
> > means "send IR code xyz" but the generic remote control doesn't have
> > to. Are there any protocols to do this already? Also, UPnP seems to
> > be possible with the 770/N800 Media Streamer as a controller, IIRC.

> There are several 11b/g to IR converter devices on the market but they
> cost $600. You might as well install something like a Media Center PC.
> But doing that makes the installation much more complicated than using
> a simple IR transmitter. Designing IR into the N800 would add about $3
> to its production cost.

I doubt you and I know production costs in such detail, but I would
agree the added cost to Nokia is not large. I guess their vision for
the N800 and its successors is not as a remote control in the
traditional sense (again, the Media Streamer UPnP is nice, and I would
use it if I liked any of the UPnP players on the market). My personal
opinion is that IR is a pain (line of sight, 8-bit vs. 16-bit codes,
presets are usually only for the big brands, codes are not universal)
and I hope something replaces it as a remote contol standard soon.

Ted
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linwoes at gmail

Jan 16, 2007, 1:26 PM

Post #18 of 18 (2267 views)
Permalink

Re: Re: Using the N770/N800 as a remote control. [In reply to]

On Tuesday 16 January 2007 15:42, Ted Zlatanov wrote:
> On 16 Jan 2007, jonsmirl [at] gmail wrote:
>
> On 1/16/07, Ted Zlatanov <tzz [at] lifelogs> wrote:
> > > Would it be possible to write a generic remote control for the
> > > 770/N800, which talked (over TCP/IP or Bluetooth) to a master
> > > controller? The master controller would know that "turn TV on" really
> > > means "send IR code xyz" but the generic remote control doesn't have
> > > to. Are there any protocols to do this already? Also, UPnP seems to
> > > be possible with the 770/N800 Media Streamer as a controller, IIRC.
> >
> > There are several 11b/g to IR converter devices on the market but they
> > cost $600. You might as well install something like a Media Center PC.
> > But doing that makes the installation much more complicated than using
> > a simple IR transmitter. Designing IR into the N800 would add about $3
> > to its production cost.
>
> I doubt you and I know production costs in such detail, but I would
> agree the added cost to Nokia is not large.
A case in point I worked at a company that removed a 10 cent sensor from a
$349 piece of equipment to save money. All those pennies add up when you
start thinking in the 100,000 units. So if there is no biz case you are only
wasting money to put it in!
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