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to all who has root access on garage

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ferenc at maemo

Jul 25, 2009, 4:19 AM

Post #1 of 7 (619 views)
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to all who has root access on garage

Hello,

I would like to ask all users who have root access to garage.maemo.org
that in the future please let all the other admins know _in advance_ if
you plan to do some installation.

The best way is probably to post a message to this list.

None of us could possibly know all dependencies of the various services
we have on the machine. If we are all aware of an upcoming installation,
or upgrade then we can ensure that it will go smoothly without causing
disturbance in other services.

Cheers and have a good one,
ferenc

--
maemo.org sysadmin, developer
email: ferenc [at] maemo
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jeremiah at jeremiahfoster

Jul 25, 2009, 6:56 AM

Post #2 of 7 (579 views)
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Re: to all who has root access on garage [In reply to]

On Jul 25, 2009, at 13:19, Ferenc Szekely wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I would like to ask all users who have root access to garage.maemo.org
> that in the future please let all the other admins know _in advance_
> if
> you plan to do some installation.

By installation you mean using aptitude?
>
> The best way is probably to post a message to this list.

So an email to this list _anytime_ anyone uses aptitude?

> None of us could possibly know all dependencies of the various
> services
> we have on the machine. If we are all aware of an upcoming
> installation,
> or upgrade then we can ensure that it will go smoothly without causing
> disturbance in other services.

That is what the apt system is for, managing dependencies. Apt is
built and designed for smooth installation of software without
disturbing other services.

Currently garage is running etch. This is going to cause continued
conflict with packages which are being built on lenny. Etch does not
receive updates to software the way lenny does - this is a problem, it
means the software is quickly getting out of date and is potentially
buggy. (Yes, old-stable does receive bug patches, but that is just for
known bugs.)

Also, etch is not up-to-date on garage itself, there are lots of
packages being held back since no one has taken the time to upgrade
garage:

"The following packages have been kept back: apache2 apache2-mpm-
prefork apache2-utils apache2.2-common apt apt-utils bzr curl dbus
debconf debconf-i18n dpkg-dev dpkg-sig dselect enscript git-core git-
doc initscripts ldap-utils libaprutil1 libc6 libc6-dev libc6-xen
libcurl3 libcurl3-gnutls libdbus-1-3 libfreetype6 libgd2-xpm
libglib2.0-0 libgnutls13 libkadm55 libkrb5-dev libkrb53 liblcms1
libldap-2.3-0 libpam-modules libpam-runtime libpam0g libpam0g-dev
libpcre3 libpng12-0 libpq-dev libpq4 libsasl2 libsasl2-2 libssl-dev
libssl0.9.7 libssl0.9.8 libtiff4 libxml2 locales login ntpdate openssh-
client openssh-server openssl passwd php-pear postfix postgresql-7.4
postgresql-client-7.4 python2.4 python2.4-minimal slapd sysv-rc
sysvinit sysvinit-utils tzdata vim vim-common vim-runtime"

No server should be left in this state, you could have an serious
exploit in openssh-client for example, but it is not going to get
fixed since the server is not updated.

Furthermore, there are packages which cause dependencies conflicts,
making any software un-installable. Please do not install software
that is not properly packaged or designed to work with apt. If you
have to do that, do so in a chroot, which is trivially easy to create
with schroot or other tools. Also, please test your package before
uploading to garage so that you know it works - packages have been
breaking apt.

The solution to the problems with garage are not for more
notification, but rather for following "best practices" when it comes
to administration of debian servers.

Jeremiah
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bartosh at gmail

Jul 25, 2009, 8:40 AM

Post #3 of 7 (570 views)
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Re: to all who has root access on garage [In reply to]

2009/7/25 Jeremiah Foster <jeremiah [at] jeremiahfoster>:
>
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 13:19, Ferenc Szekely wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I would like to ask all users who have root access to garage.maemo.org
>> that in the future please let all the other admins know _in advance_
>> if
>> you plan to do some installation.
>
> By installation you mean using aptitude?
>>
>> The best way is probably to post a message to this list.
>
> So an email to this list _anytime_ anyone uses aptitude?
>
>> None of us could possibly know all dependencies of the various
>> services
>> we have on the machine. If we are all aware of an upcoming
>> installation,
>> or upgrade then we can ensure that it will go smoothly without causing
>> disturbance in other services.
>
> That is what the apt system is for, managing dependencies. Apt is
> built and designed for smooth installation of software without
> disturbing other services.
>
> Currently garage is running etch. This is going to cause continued
> conflict with packages which are being built on lenny.

I'd not call installation lenny packages on etch right thing to do.
Using backports/rebuild lenny packages on etch or better upgrade
system to lenny are the obvious choices, I believe.

--
BR,
Ed
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jeremiah at jeremiahfoster

Jul 25, 2009, 9:46 AM

Post #4 of 7 (581 views)
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Re: to all who has root access on garage [In reply to]

On Jul 25, 2009, at 17:40, Ed Bartosh wrote:

> 2009/7/25 Jeremiah Foster <jeremiah [at] jeremiahfoster>:
>>
>> Currently garage is running etch. This is going to cause continued
>> conflict with packages which are being built on lenny.
>
> I'd not call installation lenny packages on etch right thing to do.
> Using backports/rebuild lenny packages on etch or better upgrade
> system to lenny are the obvious choices, I believe.

I agree, upgrading the server to lenny I think would be a good idea.
I think we have to take into account that developers running fremantle
are advised to run the SDK under lenny, so packages are being built on
lenny for the device. Very few debian servers in the world are still
running etch and debian is designed to support stable, i.e. lenny, so
it might be time to upgrade.

Jeremiah

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bartosh at gmail

Jul 25, 2009, 10:20 AM

Post #5 of 7 (568 views)
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Re: to all who has root access on garage [In reply to]

2009/7/25 Jeremiah Foster <jeremiah [at] jeremiahfoster>:
>
> On Jul 25, 2009, at 17:40, Ed Bartosh wrote:
>
>> 2009/7/25 Jeremiah Foster <jeremiah [at] jeremiahfoster>:
>>>
>>> Currently garage is running etch. This is going to cause continued
>>> conflict with packages which are being built on lenny.
>>
>> I'd not call installation lenny packages on etch right thing to do.
>> Using backports/rebuild lenny packages on etch or better upgrade
>> system to lenny are the obvious choices, I believe.
>
> I agree, upgrading the server to lenny I think would be a good idea.
> I think we have to take into account that developers running fremantle
> are advised to run the SDK under lenny, so packages are being built on
> lenny for the device.
I can't see how this is related to the topic, sorry. Packages are
built under scratchbox, in isolated environment and that environment
has nothing to do with the version of Debian on garage. We even don't
have scratchbox installed there.

> Very few debian servers in the world are still
> running etch
I don't think it's true. I know several servers which are still running sarge :)

> and debian is designed to support stable, i.e. lenny, so
> it might be time to upgrade.
>
Agree about time to upgrade, but it's usually not that easy to upgrade
several years old actively used system. May be that's the reason why
it's still on etch.

--
BR,
Ed
_______________________________________________
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jeremiah at jeremiahfoster

Jul 25, 2009, 10:36 AM

Post #6 of 7 (588 views)
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Re: to all who has root access on garage [In reply to]

On Jul 25, 2009, at 19:20, Ed Bartosh wrote:

> 2009/7/25 Jeremiah Foster <jeremiah [at] jeremiahfoster>:
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2009, at 17:40, Ed Bartosh wrote:
>>
>>> 2009/7/25 Jeremiah Foster <jeremiah [at] jeremiahfoster>:
>>>>
>>>> Currently garage is running etch. This is going to cause continued
>>>> conflict with packages which are being built on lenny.
>>>
>>> I'd not call installation lenny packages on etch right thing to do.
>>> Using backports/rebuild lenny packages on etch or better upgrade
>>> system to lenny are the obvious choices, I believe.
>>
>> I agree, upgrading the server to lenny I think would be a good idea.
>> I think we have to take into account that developers running
>> fremantle
>> are advised to run the SDK under lenny, so packages are being built
>> on
>> lenny for the device.
> I can't see how this is related to the topic, sorry.

Well take a look at the relationship between apt-ftparchive and apt-
get. There can be problems if you get a big version skew.

> Packages are
> built under scratchbox, in isolated environment and that environment
> has nothing to do with the version of Debian on garage. We even don't
> have scratchbox installed there.
>
>> Very few debian servers in the world are still
>> running etch

> I don't think it's true. I know several servers which are still
> running sarge :)

Yeah, that anecdote is not reflective of what the debian deployment
ecosystem looks like. Debian has made consistent gains in uptime in
comparison to many server OSes out there, according to those that
measure that kind of thing. Those are almost always stable systems,
stable is lenny.

>
>> and debian is designed to support stable, i.e. lenny, so
>> it might be time to upgrade.
>>
> Agree about time to upgrade, but it's usually not that easy to upgrade
> several years old actively used system. May be that's the reason why
> it's still on etch.

Debian is easy to upgrade when you do it regularly.

Jeremiah
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ferenc at maemo

Jul 25, 2009, 11:52 AM

Post #7 of 7 (575 views)
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Re: to all who has root access on garage [In reply to]

Jeremiah Foster wrote:
>> Agree about time to upgrade, but it's usually not that easy to upgrade
>> several years old actively used system. May be that's the reason why
>> it's still on etch.
>
> Debian is easy to upgrade when you do it regularly.
>
Right.

I wrote the 1st mail because garage went down. Murray and others had
noticed it. You can find out the reason yourself.

My small wish was to inform each other _before_ we do any updates /
installs on garage. It is a very crucial, but sensitive piece in out
infrastructure. We all know it is overloaded most of the time. We will
get a dedicated box for it, at least I was told so a few weeks back.

It is not a question whether we should update the server or not. The
server will get an update when the time comes. Hopefully the migration
to the new server will happen before the summit... Until that please be
gentle with garage. That's all I asked.

Thanks for your understandings.

> Jeremiah
Br,
ferenc
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