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[lvs-users] LVS-NAT in Linux 2.6

 

 

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Nick.Couchman at seakr

Sep 2, 2009, 11:55 AM

Post #1 of 10 (1374 views)
Permalink
[lvs-users] LVS-NAT in Linux 2.6

The docs on the web site seem to be a little bit out of date, so I figured I'd hit the mailing list to try to find some help with my problem. First, here's what I'm trying to do:
- I have a half-dozen Windows-based virtual machines (XEN) that I need to load-balance between. In the past, I've been using the direct route method, but I've run into some issues - some very strange behavior (like my IPVS director deciding to send out RSET packets to all of the clients at seemingly random intervals).
- The IPVS director is also a Xen domU (VM), running SuSE Linux.

Having had issues in the past with the DR method, I decided to try my luck at the NAT method. So, I enabled IP forwarding on my director:
sysctl net.ipv4.ip_forward=1

added a virtual IP address:
ifconfig eth0:2 <virtual IP>

added an iptables nat rule:
iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -s 172.16.34.0/24 -j SNAT --to-source <virtual IP>

and updated the IPVS service table:
ipvsadm -A -t <virtual IP>:1234 -s wlc
ipvsadm -a -t <virtual IP>:1234 -r 172.16.34.10:1234 -m -x 1

Inside this particular Windows machine, I set the default route to the IP of the directory (172.16.34.1). If I ping an IP address elsewhere on my network, packets appear to be routed correctly and a look at the output of "iptables -t nat -nvL" shows the packet counters for the rule I added in the POSTROUTING table incrementing properly. However, if I try to connect to the virtual IP address on the port 1234, the connection never gets established. A packet dump shows the traffic going from the source machine (my laptop) to the director, and then being passed on the Windows machine. I also see return packets from the Windows machine go back to the IPVS director, however, after that they just get "lost" - the counters in iptables do not increment, nor do the packets ever show up on the outside interface. Is there something I'm doing wrong to get this setup to work? I'm following the configuration guide for the 2.4 kernel stuff from the linuxvirtualserver.org web site, since this is the closest I can find to current kernel versions.

Thanks,
Nick


--------
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Please read the documentation before posting - it's available at:
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malcolm at loadbalancer

Sep 2, 2009, 12:28 PM

Post #2 of 10 (1313 views)
Permalink
Re: [lvs-users] LVS-NAT in Linux 2.6 [In reply to]

Nick,

Take the iptables SNAT rule out for debugging purposes, it is not
needed for load balancing via LVS (LVS handles its own NAT).





2009/9/2 Nick Couchman <Nick.Couchman [at] seakr>
>
> The docs on the web site seem to be a little bit out of date, so I figured I'd hit the mailing list to try to find some help with my problem.  First, here's what I'm trying to do:
> - I have a half-dozen Windows-based virtual machines (XEN) that I need to load-balance between.  In the past, I've been using the direct route method, but I've run into some issues - some very strange behavior (like my IPVS director deciding to send out RSET packets to all of the clients at seemingly random intervals).
> - The IPVS director is also a Xen domU (VM), running SuSE Linux.
>
> Having had issues in the past with the DR method, I decided to try my luck at the NAT method.  So, I enabled IP forwarding on my director:
> sysctl net.ipv4.ip_forward=1
>
> added a virtual IP address:
> ifconfig eth0:2 <virtual IP>
>
> added an iptables nat rule:
> iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -s 172.16.34.0/24 -j SNAT --to-source <virtual IP>
>
> and updated the IPVS service table:
> ipvsadm -A -t <virtual IP>:1234 -s wlc
> ipvsadm -a -t <virtual IP>:1234 -r 172.16.34.10:1234 -m -x 1
>
> Inside this particular Windows machine, I set the default route to the IP of the directory (172.16.34.1).  If I ping an IP address elsewhere on my network, packets appear to be routed correctly and a look at the output of "iptables -t nat -nvL" shows the packet counters for the rule I added in the POSTROUTING table incrementing properly.  However, if I try to connect to the virtual IP address on the port 1234, the connection never gets established.  A packet dump shows the traffic going from the source machine (my laptop) to the director, and then being passed on the Windows machine.  I also see return packets from the Windows machine go back to the IPVS director, however, after that they just get "lost" - the counters in iptables do not increment, nor do the packets ever show up on the outside interface.  Is there something I'm doing wrong to get this setup to work?  I'm following the configuration guide for the 2.4 kernel stuff from the linuxvirtualserver.org web site, since this is the closest I can find to current kernel versions.
>
> Thanks,
> Nick
>
>
> --------
> This e-mail may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient.  If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the intended recipient, please note that this message may contain SEAKR Engineering (SEAKR) Privileged/Proprietary Information.  In such a case, you are strictly prohibited from downloading, photocopying, distributing or otherwise using this message, its contents or attachments in any way.  If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this e-mail and delete the message from your mailbox.  Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of SEAKR is neither endorsed by nor attributable to SEAKR.
> _______________________________________________
> Please read the documentation before posting - it's available at:
> http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/
>
> LinuxVirtualServer.org mailing list - lvs-users [at] LinuxVirtualServer
> Send requests to lvs-users-request [at] LinuxVirtualServer
> or go to http://lists.graemef.net/mailman/listinfo/lvs-users



--
Regards,

Malcolm Turnbull.

Loadbalancer.org Ltd.
Phone: +44 (0)870 443 8779
http://www.loadbalancer.org/

_______________________________________________
Please read the documentation before posting - it's available at:
http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/

LinuxVirtualServer.org mailing list - lvs-users [at] LinuxVirtualServer
Send requests to lvs-users-request [at] LinuxVirtualServer
or go to http://lists.graemef.net/mailman/listinfo/lvs-users


Nick.Couchman at seakr

Sep 3, 2009, 5:43 AM

Post #3 of 10 (1306 views)
Permalink
Re: [lvs-users] LVS-NAT in Linux 2.6 [In reply to]

Well, that would explain why I'm not seeing that traffic come through the iptables rule set!

Sorry to bother everyone with this - this issue was actually that the TX Checksums were being miscalculated due to tx checksum offloading being turned on for the network interface in Windows XP. After disabling this feature, things work as expected, with the exception that my XP VMs cannot see my Windows domain over NAT. I know that's outside the scope of this list, but if anyone has any experience getting Windows to work behind NAT, I'd appreciate the tips.

Thanks, and sorry to bother you with my silly mistake!

-Nick

>>> On 2009/09/02 at 13:28, Malcolm Turnbull <malcolm [at] loadbalancer> wrote:

Nick,

Take the iptables SNAT rule out for debugging purposes, it is not
needed for load balancing via LVS (LVS handles its own NAT).





2009/9/2 Nick Couchman <Nick.Couchman [at] seakr>
>
> The docs on the web site seem to be a little bit out of date, so I figured I'd hit the mailing list to try to find some help with my problem. First, here's what I'm trying to do:
> - I have a half-dozen Windows-based virtual machines (XEN) that I need to load-balance between. In the past, I've been using the direct route method, but I've run into some issues - some very strange behavior (like my IPVS director deciding to send out RSET packets to all of the clients at seemingly random intervals).
> - The IPVS director is also a Xen domU (VM), running SuSE Linux.
>
> Having had issues in the past with the DR method, I decided to try my luck at the NAT method. So, I enabled IP forwarding on my director:
> sysctl net.ipv4.ip_forward=1
>
> added a virtual IP address:
> ifconfig eth0:2 <virtual IP>
>
> added an iptables nat rule:
> iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -s 172.16.34.0/24 -j SNAT --to-source <virtual IP>
>
> and updated the IPVS service table:
> ipvsadm -A -t <virtual IP>:1234 -s wlc
> ipvsadm -a -t <virtual IP>:1234 -r 172.16.34.10:1234 -m -x 1
>
> Inside this particular Windows machine, I set the default route to the IP of the directory (172.16.34.1). If I ping an IP address elsewhere on my network, packets appear to be routed correctly and a look at the output of "iptables -t nat -nvL" shows the packet counters for the rule I added in the POSTROUTING table incrementing properly. However, if I try to connect to the virtual IP address on the port 1234, the connection never gets established. A packet dump shows the traffic going from the source machine (my laptop) to the director, and then being passed on the Windows machine. I also see return packets from the Windows machine go back to the IPVS director, however, after that they just get "lost" - the counters in iptables do not increment, nor do the packets ever show up on the outside interface. Is there something I'm doing wrong to get this setup to work? I'm following the configuration guide for the 2.4 kernel stuff from the linuxvirtualserver.org web site, since this is the closest I can find to current kernel versions.
>
> Thanks,
> Nick
>
>
> --------
> This e-mail may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the intended recipient, please note that this message may contain SEAKR Engineering (SEAKR) Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you are strictly prohibited from downloading, photocopying, distributing or otherwise using this message, its contents or attachments in any way. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this e-mail and delete the message from your mailbox. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of SEAKR is neither endorsed by nor attributable to SEAKR.
> _______________________________________________
> Please read the documentation before posting - it's available at:
> http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/
>
> LinuxVirtualServer.org mailing list - lvs-users [at] LinuxVirtualServer
> Send requests to lvs-users-request [at] LinuxVirtualServer
> or go to http://lists.graemef.net/mailman/listinfo/lvs-users



--
Regards,

Malcolm Turnbull.

Loadbalancer.org Ltd.
Phone: +44 (0)870 443 8779
http://www.loadbalancer.org/




--------
This e-mail may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the intended recipient, please note that this message may contain SEAKR Engineering (SEAKR) Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you are strictly prohibited from downloading, photocopying, distributing or otherwise using this message, its contents or attachments in any way. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this e-mail and delete the message from your mailbox. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of SEAKR is neither endorsed by nor attributable to SEAKR.
_______________________________________________
Please read the documentation before posting - it's available at:
http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/

LinuxVirtualServer.org mailing list - lvs-users [at] LinuxVirtualServer
Send requests to lvs-users-request [at] LinuxVirtualServer
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jmack at wm7d

Sep 3, 2009, 11:56 AM

Post #4 of 10 (1311 views)
Permalink
Re: [lvs-users] LVS-NAT in Linux 2.6 [In reply to]

On Thu, 3 Sep 2009, Nick Couchman wrote:

> with the exception that my XP VMs cannot see my Windows
> domain over NAT.

I have no experience with VMs, but I would expect that the
windows realservers will have the same IPs as before they
were put behind a director. Why can't they see the windows
domain?

Joe

--
Joseph Mack NA3T EME(B,D), FM05lw North Carolina
jmack (at) wm7d (dot) net - azimuthal equidistant map
generator at http://www.wm7d.net/azproj.shtml
Homepage http://www.austintek.com/ It's GNU/Linux!

_______________________________________________
Please read the documentation before posting - it's available at:
http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/

LinuxVirtualServer.org mailing list - lvs-users [at] LinuxVirtualServer
Send requests to lvs-users-request [at] LinuxVirtualServer
or go to http://lists.graemef.net/mailman/listinfo/lvs-users


Nick.Couchman at seakr

Sep 5, 2009, 8:52 AM

Post #5 of 10 (1268 views)
Permalink
Re: [lvs-users] LVS-NAT in Linux 2.6 [In reply to]

Actually, since its NAT, the realservers get an IP address on another subnet that's exclusive to the NAT setup. Then the IPVS director does the NAT and routing, sending the requests and responses out to the rest of the network with its own IP address. The issue I'm running into is that requests for Windows domain stuff in NT4 domains is done of UDP ports 137 and 138. There's an in-kernel conntrack helper for requests on port 137, but not port 138. This means that when the NT servers send responses to WINS requests on port 138 the IPVS director does not know what to do with these responses, so they just get discarded. Trying to figure out how to deal with that - there don't really seem to be any helper applications for this currently available for Linux.

-Nick

>>> On 2009/09/03 at 12:56, Joseph Mack NA3T <jmack [at] wm7d> wrote:

On Thu, 3 Sep 2009, Nick Couchman wrote:

> with the exception that my XP VMs cannot see my Windows
> domain over NAT.

I have no experience with VMs, but I would expect that the
windows realservers will have the same IPs as before they
were put behind a director. Why can't they see the windows
domain?

Joe

--
Joseph Mack NA3T EME(B,D), FM05lw North Carolina
jmack (at) wm7d (dot) net - azimuthal equidistant map
generator at http://www.wm7d.net/azproj.shtml
Homepage http://www.austintek.com/ It's GNU/Linux!




--------
This e-mail may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the intended recipient, please note that this message may contain SEAKR Engineering (SEAKR) Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you are strictly prohibited from downloading, photocopying, distributing or otherwise using this message, its contents or attachments in any way. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this e-mail and delete the message from your mailbox. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of SEAKR is neither endorsed by nor attributable to SEAKR.
_______________________________________________
Please read the documentation before posting - it's available at:
http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/

LinuxVirtualServer.org mailing list - lvs-users [at] LinuxVirtualServer
Send requests to lvs-users-request [at] LinuxVirtualServer
or go to http://lists.graemef.net/mailman/listinfo/lvs-users


jmack at wm7d

Sep 5, 2009, 10:57 AM

Post #6 of 10 (1264 views)
Permalink
Re: [lvs-users] LVS-NAT in Linux 2.6 [In reply to]

On Sat, 5 Sep 2009, Nick Couchman wrote:

> Actually, since its NAT, the realservers get an IP address
> on another subnet that's exclusive to the NAT setup.

the realservers are on a different network and the only
intervening machine is the director. Presumably the other
windows machines are on the VIP network.

> Then the IPVS director does the NAT and routing, sending
> the requests and responses out to the rest of the network
> with its own IP address. The issue I'm running into is
> that requests for Windows domain stuff in NT4 domains is
> done of UDP ports 137 and 138. There's an in-kernel
> conntrack helper for requests on port 137, but not port
> 138. This means that when the NT servers send responses
> to WINS requests on port 138 the IPVS director does not
> know what to do with these responses, so they just get
> discarded.

I don't know a lot about this, so this is just a mad idea.
If you set your director up to be a samba server, can this
be used to link the realservers to the rest of the machines
on the VIP network?

Joe

--
Joseph Mack NA3T EME(B,D), FM05lw North Carolina
jmack (at) wm7d (dot) net - azimuthal equidistant map
generator at http://www.wm7d.net/azproj.shtml
Homepage http://www.austintek.com/ It's GNU/Linux!

_______________________________________________
Please read the documentation before posting - it's available at:
http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/

LinuxVirtualServer.org mailing list - lvs-users [at] LinuxVirtualServer
Send requests to lvs-users-request [at] LinuxVirtualServer
or go to http://lists.graemef.net/mailman/listinfo/lvs-users


Nick.Couchman at seakr

Sep 6, 2009, 10:36 PM

Post #7 of 10 (1249 views)
Permalink
Re: [lvs-users] LVS-NAT in Linux 2.6 [In reply to]

Thanks for the suggestions, Joe! On the first count, yes, the network where the virtual IP sits has several windows machines (a couple dozen). On the second count, I actually gave this a shot, set up Samba and turned on WINS Proxy, then pointed the real servers at the IP of the LVS machine for WINS. Unfortunately I got errors in the Samba logs saying that the clients need to contact the WINS Server. This appeared to be during client registration, but it also didn't seem to help the issue of logons any.

-Nick

>>> On 2009/09/05 at 11:57, Joseph Mack NA3T <jmack [at] wm7d> wrote:

On Sat, 5 Sep 2009, Nick Couchman wrote:

> Actually, since its NAT, the realservers get an IP address
> on another subnet that's exclusive to the NAT setup.

the realservers are on a different network and the only
intervening machine is the director. Presumably the other
windows machines are on the VIP network.

> Then the IPVS director does the NAT and routing, sending
> the requests and responses out to the rest of the network
> with its own IP address. The issue I'm running into is
> that requests for Windows domain stuff in NT4 domains is
> done of UDP ports 137 and 138. There's an in-kernel
> conntrack helper for requests on port 137, but not port
> 138. This means that when the NT servers send responses
> to WINS requests on port 138 the IPVS director does not
> know what to do with these responses, so they just get
> discarded.

I don't know a lot about this, so this is just a mad idea.
If you set your director up to be a samba server, can this
be used to link the realservers to the rest of the machines
on the VIP network?

Joe

--
Joseph Mack NA3T EME(B,D), FM05lw North Carolina
jmack (at) wm7d (dot) net - azimuthal equidistant map
generator at http://www.wm7d.net/azproj.shtml
Homepage http://www.austintek.com/ It's GNU/Linux!




--------
This e-mail may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the intended recipient, please note that this message may contain SEAKR Engineering (SEAKR) Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you are strictly prohibited from downloading, photocopying, distributing or otherwise using this message, its contents or attachments in any way. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this e-mail and delete the message from your mailbox. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of SEAKR is neither endorsed by nor attributable to SEAKR.
_______________________________________________
Please read the documentation before posting - it's available at:
http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/

LinuxVirtualServer.org mailing list - lvs-users [at] LinuxVirtualServer
Send requests to lvs-users-request [at] LinuxVirtualServer
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jmack at wm7d

Sep 7, 2009, 6:44 AM

Post #8 of 10 (1247 views)
Permalink
Re: [lvs-users] LVS-NAT in Linux 2.6 [In reply to]

On Sun, 6 Sep 2009, Nick Couchman wrote:

> Thanks for the suggestions, Joe! On the first count, yes,
> the network where the virtual IP sits has several windows
> machines (a couple dozen). On the second count, I
> actually gave this a shot, set up Samba and turned on WINS
> Proxy, then pointed the real servers at the IP of the LVS
> machine for WINS. Unfortunately I got errors in the Samba
> logs saying that the clients need to contact the WINS
> Server.

Samba is not the easiest thing to debug I'll admit.

You have two networks of windows machines joined by a
machine that happens to be an linux LVS director, but which
isn't doing anything to packets to ports 137,138.

Getting the two networks of windows machines to be on the
same NT domain (or whatever its called) has got to be a
solved problem (although I don't know the solution).

Do the two lots of windows machines have to be on the same
IP network? In this case you'll have to NAT out 137,138 on
the realservers (I think both udp and tcp are involved). If
not, then you'll need to setup the director to do the
routing (turn off lvs first to simplify things).

I expect Samba has got to be able to do it as well.

For the ip2route method of getting realservers to talk to
the outside world have a look at

http://www.austintek.com/LVS/LVS-HOWTO/HOWTO/LVS-HOWTO.non-lvs_clients_on_realservers.html#3-tier_routes

Joe
--
Joseph Mack NA3T EME(B,D), FM05lw North Carolina
jmack (at) wm7d (dot) net - azimuthal equidistant map
generator at http://www.wm7d.net/azproj.shtml
Homepage http://www.austintek.com/ It's GNU/Linux!

_______________________________________________
Please read the documentation before posting - it's available at:
http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/

LinuxVirtualServer.org mailing list - lvs-users [at] LinuxVirtualServer
Send requests to lvs-users-request [at] LinuxVirtualServer
or go to http://lists.graemef.net/mailman/listinfo/lvs-users


jmack at wm7d

Sep 7, 2009, 9:03 AM

Post #9 of 10 (1253 views)
Permalink
Re: [lvs-users] LVS-NAT in Linux 2.6 [In reply to]

On Mon, 7 Sep 2009, Joseph Mack NA3T wrote:

> For the ip2route

s/ip2route/iproute2/

> method of getting realservers to talk to the outside world
> have a look at

never mind - you have windows realservers

Joe

--
Joseph Mack NA3T EME(B,D), FM05lw North Carolina
jmack (at) wm7d (dot) net - azimuthal equidistant map
generator at http://www.wm7d.net/azproj.shtml
Homepage http://www.austintek.com/ It's GNU/Linux!

_______________________________________________
Please read the documentation before posting - it's available at:
http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/

LinuxVirtualServer.org mailing list - lvs-users [at] LinuxVirtualServer
Send requests to lvs-users-request [at] LinuxVirtualServer
or go to http://lists.graemef.net/mailman/listinfo/lvs-users


Nick.Couchman at seakr

Sep 10, 2009, 1:40 PM

Post #10 of 10 (1190 views)
Permalink
Re: [lvs-users] LVS-NAT in Linux 2.6 [In reply to]

For what it's worth, I believe I've figured out the issue. The issue is/was not with WINS at all - it's with the NetBIOS Datagram Server (NBDS) on port 138. Seems that WINS requests are being handled just fine, but logon requests are not. I was looking at a traffic dump and noticed that NBDS requests have the Source IP and Port embedded in the payload of the packet. So, I'm guessing my Windows NT domain controllers, instead of using the IP header information to return a response, are attempting to use the data embedded in the packet to return the response. This explains why I've never seen any reply packets to the port 138 traffic being generated by my realservers. I'm not sure there's really much I can do about this - I suppose I can take a look at the Samba source code and see if there's some way to tear open the NBDS packet, modify the contents, put it back together, and then listen for the response. Not sure if I can write a module that will do this, or if some sort of external helper application will be required.

-Nick

>>> On 2009/09/07 at 07:44, Joseph Mack NA3T <jmack [at] wm7d> wrote:


On Sun, 6 Sep 2009, Nick Couchman wrote:

> Thanks for the suggestions, Joe! On the first count, yes,
> the network where the virtual IP sits has several windows
> machines (a couple dozen). On the second count, I
> actually gave this a shot, set up Samba and turned on WINS
> Proxy, then pointed the real servers at the IP of the LVS
> machine for WINS. Unfortunately I got errors in the Samba
> logs saying that the clients need to contact the WINS
> Server.

Samba is not the easiest thing to debug I'll admit.

You have two networks of windows machines joined by a
machine that happens to be an linux LVS director, but which
isn't doing anything to packets to ports 137,138.

Getting the two networks of windows machines to be on the
same NT domain (or whatever its called) has got to be a
solved problem (although I don't know the solution).

Do the two lots of windows machines have to be on the same
IP network? In this case you'll have to NAT out 137,138 on
the realservers (I think both udp and tcp are involved). If
not, then you'll need to setup the director to do the
routing (turn off lvs first to simplify things).

I expect Samba has got to be able to do it as well.

For the ip2route method of getting realservers to talk to
the outside world have a look at

http://www.austintek.com/LVS/LVS-HOWTO/HOWTO/LVS-HOWTO.non-lvs_clients_on_realservers.html#3-tier_routes

Joe
--
Joseph Mack NA3T EME(B,D), FM05lw North Carolina
jmack (at) wm7d (dot) net - azimuthal equidistant map
generator at http://www.wm7d.net/azproj.shtml
Homepage http://www.austintek.com/ It's GNU/Linux!




--------
This e-mail may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the intended recipient, please note that this message may contain SEAKR Engineering (SEAKR) Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you are strictly prohibited from downloading, photocopying, distributing or otherwise using this message, its contents or attachments in any way. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this e-mail and delete the message from your mailbox. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of SEAKR is neither endorsed by nor attributable to SEAKR.
_______________________________________________
Please read the documentation before posting - it's available at:
http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/

LinuxVirtualServer.org mailing list - lvs-users [at] LinuxVirtualServer
Send requests to lvs-users-request [at] LinuxVirtualServer
or go to http://lists.graemef.net/mailman/listinfo/lvs-users

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