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[lvs-users] Can ldirectord handle that many servers?

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timo.schoeler at riscworks

Apr 17, 2009, 1:41 AM

Post #1 of 8 (1317 views)
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[lvs-users] Can ldirectord handle that many servers?

Hello list,

it seems that the first issue I had with ldirectord [0] is mostly
solved; that given, I'm about to deploy another LVS box in a different
environment. I did read the 'what is the max throughput LVS can handle,
and max number of concurrent connection?' thread, but that's LVS, not
ldirectord...

That raises the question for me if anybody has a similar (or even
bigger) setup in production.

To give a few numbers: Virtual IPs will be about 600, real servers are
almost 2200. Services should be tested every 2 or 5 seconds.

Any takers?

Thanks in advance,

Timo

[0] -- http://tinyurl.com/cz76dl

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jmack at wm7d

Apr 17, 2009, 8:26 AM

Post #2 of 8 (1251 views)
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Re: [lvs-users] Can ldirectord handle that many servers? [In reply to]

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009, Timo Schoeler wrote:

> To give a few numbers: Virtual IPs will be about 600, real servers are
> almost 2200. Services should be tested every 2 or 5 seconds.

well we haven't heard of anyone with this sort of system.

Horms has posted (look in archives) on the design of
ldirectord and how it works with large numbers of calls.

Joe
--
Joseph Mack NA3T EME(B,D), FM05lw North Carolina
jmack (at) wm7d (dot) net - azimuthal equidistant map
generator at http://www.wm7d.net/azproj.shtml
Homepage http://www.austintek.com/ It's GNU/Linux!

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geoff at thehive

Apr 17, 2009, 8:49 AM

Post #3 of 8 (1263 views)
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Re: [lvs-users] Can ldirectord handle that many servers? [In reply to]

we have a similar setup, but we use multiple ipvs + ldirector setups
for this, where the most bandwidth we push through any given pair is
~500 mbit or so of sustained traffic.
the way I see it, if you've got 2200 machines, you can afford to have
multiple gateways into your network...
that or you've done something completely wrong and have far too much
hardware for far too little traffic / processing

Geoff Harrison
Chief Architect
The Hive
(617) 301-6200

On Apr 17, 2009, at 4:41 AM, Timo Schoeler wrote:

> Hello list,
>
> it seems that the first issue I had with ldirectord [0] is mostly
> solved; that given, I'm about to deploy another LVS box in a different
> environment. I did read the 'what is the max throughput LVS can
> handle,
> and max number of concurrent connection?' thread, but that's LVS, not
> ldirectord...
>
> That raises the question for me if anybody has a similar (or even
> bigger) setup in production.
>
> To give a few numbers: Virtual IPs will be about 600, real servers are
> almost 2200. Services should be tested every 2 or 5 seconds.
>
> Any takers?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Timo
>
> [0] -- http://tinyurl.com/cz76dl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Please read the documentation before posting - it's available at:
> http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/
>
> LinuxVirtualServer.org mailing list - lvs-users [at] LinuxVirtualServer
> Send requests to lvs-users-request [at] LinuxVirtualServer
> or go to http://lists.graemef.net/mailman/listinfo/lvs-users
>

_______________________________________________
Please read the documentation before posting - it's available at:
http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/

LinuxVirtualServer.org mailing list - lvs-users [at] LinuxVirtualServer
Send requests to lvs-users-request [at] LinuxVirtualServer
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timo.schoeler at riscworks

Apr 20, 2009, 1:57 AM

Post #4 of 8 (1235 views)
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Re: [lvs-users] Can ldirectord handle that many servers? [In reply to]

hi,

> we have a similar setup, but we use multiple ipvs + ldirector setups
> for this, where the most bandwidth we push through any given pair is
> ~500 mbit or so of sustained traffic.

that sounds equal. nice.

> the way I see it, if you've got 2200 machines, you can afford to have
> multiple gateways into your network...

we do have them; it's not 2,200 _physical_ machinesm, btw, it's 2,200 IPs.

> that or you've done something completely wrong and have far too much
> hardware for far too little traffic / processing

not really; we're going to replace existing load balancers, hence the setup.

best,

timo

> Geoff Harrison
> Chief Architect
> The Hive
> (617) 301-6200
>
>
> On Apr 17, 2009, at 4:41 AM, Timo Schoeler wrote:
>
>> Hello list,
>>
>> it seems that the first issue I had with ldirectord [0] is mostly
>> solved; that given, I'm about to deploy another LVS box in a different
>> environment. I did read the 'what is the max throughput LVS can
>> handle,
>> and max number of concurrent connection?' thread, but that's LVS, not
>> ldirectord...
>>
>> That raises the question for me if anybody has a similar (or even
>> bigger) setup in production.
>>
>> To give a few numbers: Virtual IPs will be about 600, real servers are
>> almost 2200. Services should be tested every 2 or 5 seconds.
>>
>> Any takers?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Timo
>>
>> [0] -- http://tinyurl.com/cz76dl

_______________________________________________
Please read the documentation before posting - it's available at:
http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/

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Send requests to lvs-users-request [at] LinuxVirtualServer
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geoff at thehive

Apr 20, 2009, 11:35 AM

Post #5 of 8 (1232 views)
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Re: [lvs-users] Can ldirectord handle that many servers? [In reply to]

if you've got 2200 ips internally and only 600 externally, I cannot
help but think to myself:
"you're doing it wrong"

I think you've been convinced to do something fundamentally broken and
it needs to be
fixed at the lower level before you proceed... unless there's some
other piece of data here
that I'm not aware of.

Geoff Harrison
Chief Architect
The Hive
(617) 301-6200

On Apr 20, 2009, at 4:57 AM, timo.schoeler [at] riscworks wrote:

> hi,
>
>> we have a similar setup, but we use multiple ipvs + ldirector setups
>> for this, where the most bandwidth we push through any given pair is
>> ~500 mbit or so of sustained traffic.
>
> that sounds equal. nice.
>
>> the way I see it, if you've got 2200 machines, you can afford to have
>> multiple gateways into your network...
>
> we do have them; it's not 2,200 _physical_ machinesm, btw, it's
> 2,200 IPs.
>
>> that or you've done something completely wrong and have far too much
>> hardware for far too little traffic / processing
>
> not really; we're going to replace existing load balancers, hence
> the setup.
>
> best,
>
> timo
>
>> Geoff Harrison
>> Chief Architect
>> The Hive
>> (617) 301-6200
>>
>>
>> On Apr 17, 2009, at 4:41 AM, Timo Schoeler wrote:
>>
>>> Hello list,
>>>
>>> it seems that the first issue I had with ldirectord [0] is mostly
>>> solved; that given, I'm about to deploy another LVS box in a
>>> different
>>> environment. I did read the 'what is the max throughput LVS can
>>> handle,
>>> and max number of concurrent connection?' thread, but that's LVS,
>>> not
>>> ldirectord...
>>>
>>> That raises the question for me if anybody has a similar (or even
>>> bigger) setup in production.
>>>
>>> To give a few numbers: Virtual IPs will be about 600, real servers
>>> are
>>> almost 2200. Services should be tested every 2 or 5 seconds.
>>>
>>> Any takers?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> Timo
>>>
>>> [0] -- http://tinyurl.com/cz76dl
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Please read the documentation before posting - it's available at:
> http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/
>
> LinuxVirtualServer.org mailing list - lvs-users [at] LinuxVirtualServer
> Send requests to lvs-users-request [at] LinuxVirtualServer
> or go to http://lists.graemef.net/mailman/listinfo/lvs-users
>

_______________________________________________
Please read the documentation before posting - it's available at:
http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/

LinuxVirtualServer.org mailing list - lvs-users [at] LinuxVirtualServer
Send requests to lvs-users-request [at] LinuxVirtualServer
or go to http://lists.graemef.net/mailman/listinfo/lvs-users

graeme at graemef

Apr 20, 2009, 11:48 AM

Post #6 of 8 (1231 views)
Permalink

Re: [lvs-users] Can ldirectord handle that many servers? [In reply to]

On Mon, 2009-04-20 at 14:35 -0400, Geoff Harrison wrote:
> if you've got 2200 ips internally and only 600 externally, I cannot
> help but think to myself:
> "you're doing it wrong"

Well, I tend to think to myself "multiple SSL based web virtual hosts".
But we could both be wrong, as that detail hasn't been included.

If it is, there are ways around it which don't utilise such a humungous
number of IP addresses but due to FERPA an HIPAA regs (to name but two)
they're not always possible.

Ah, I yearn for the days when all deployed browsers support certificates
with multiple DNs included in each one... I know some do now, but
nowhere near enough.

Graeme

_______________________________________________
Please read the documentation before posting - it's available at:
http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/

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timo.schoeler at riscworks

Apr 20, 2009, 9:00 PM

Post #7 of 8 (1219 views)
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Re: [lvs-users] Can ldirectord handle that many servers? [In reply to]

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Hash: SHA1

> if you've got 2200 ips internally and only 600 externally, I cannot
> help but think to myself:
> "you're doing it wrong"

I'm doing what I am and was forced to do due to technical circumstances.

Now I'n verifying whether ldirectord et al. can handle this. That's all. ;)

Best,

Timo

> I think you've been convinced to do something fundamentally broken and
> it needs to be
> fixed at the lower level before you proceed... unless there's some
> other piece of data here
> that I'm not aware of.
>
> Geoff Harrison
> Chief Architect
> The Hive
> (617) 301-6200
>
>
> On Apr 20, 2009, at 4:57 AM, timo.schoeler [at] riscworks wrote:
>
>> hi,
>>
>>> we have a similar setup, but we use multiple ipvs + ldirector setups
>>> for this, where the most bandwidth we push through any given pair is
>>> ~500 mbit or so of sustained traffic.
>> that sounds equal. nice.
>>
>>> the way I see it, if you've got 2200 machines, you can afford to have
>>> multiple gateways into your network...
>> we do have them; it's not 2,200 _physical_ machinesm, btw, it's
>> 2,200 IPs.
>>
>>> that or you've done something completely wrong and have far too much
>>> hardware for far too little traffic / processing
>> not really; we're going to replace existing load balancers, hence
>> the setup.
>>
>> best,
>>
>> timo
>>
>>> Geoff Harrison
>>> Chief Architect
>>> The Hive
>>> (617) 301-6200
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 17, 2009, at 4:41 AM, Timo Schoeler wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello list,
>>>>
>>>> it seems that the first issue I had with ldirectord [0] is mostly
>>>> solved; that given, I'm about to deploy another LVS box in a
>>>> different
>>>> environment. I did read the 'what is the max throughput LVS can
>>>> handle,
>>>> and max number of concurrent connection?' thread, but that's LVS,
>>>> not
>>>> ldirectord...
>>>>
>>>> That raises the question for me if anybody has a similar (or even
>>>> bigger) setup in production.
>>>>
>>>> To give a few numbers: Virtual IPs will be about 600, real servers
>>>> are
>>>> almost 2200. Services should be tested every 2 or 5 seconds.
>>>>
>>>> Any takers?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>>
>>>> Timo
>>>>
>>>> [0] -- http://tinyurl.com/cz76dl
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_______________________________________________
Please read the documentation before posting - it's available at:
http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/

LinuxVirtualServer.org mailing list - lvs-users [at] LinuxVirtualServer
Send requests to lvs-users-request [at] LinuxVirtualServer
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graeme at graemef

Apr 22, 2009, 3:29 AM

Post #8 of 8 (1200 views)
Permalink

Re: [lvs-users] Can ldirectord handle that many servers? [In reply to]

On Tue, 2009-04-21 at 06:00 +0200, Timo Schoeler wrote:
> Now I'n verifying whether ldirectord et al. can handle this. That's all. ;)

...and the answer seems to be: nobody knows.

There are ways to group virtual/real server definitions in both
keepalived and ldirectord, but when you get to the bottom line you're
still talking about 2200 realservers needing to be checked.

I think the only way we're going to bottom that one is to try it. I dare
say that it's possible, but managing the latency and memory requirements
of something like ldirectord forking 2200 check processes is going to be
rather tricky. Not to mention the startup time!

How well do your hardware devices handle this? Do they check all 2200
realservers successfully, and if so in what timeframe?

Graeme

_______________________________________________
Please read the documentation before posting - it's available at:
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LinuxVirtualServer.org mailing list - lvs-users [at] LinuxVirtualServer
Send requests to lvs-users-request [at] LinuxVirtualServer
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