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[jira] [Commented] (LUCENE-3997) join module should not depend on grouping module

 

 

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jira at apache

Apr 18, 2012, 7:03 AM

Post #1 of 14 (134 views)
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[jira] [Commented] (LUCENE-3997) join module should not depend on grouping module

[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13256577#comment-13256577 ]

Robert Muir commented on LUCENE-3997:
-------------------------------------

Sorry for the duplicate upload... jira was going nutso on me

> join module should not depend on grouping module
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LUCENE-3997
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997
> Project: Lucene - Java
> Issue Type: Task
> Affects Versions: 4.0
> Reporter: Robert Muir
> Fix For: 4.0
>
> Attachments: LUCENE-3997.patch, LUCENE-3997.patch
>
>
> I think TopGroups/GroupDocs should simply be in core?
> Both grouping and join modules use these trivial classes, but join depends on grouping just for them.
> I think its better that we try to minimize these inter-module dependencies.
> Of course, another option is to combine grouping and join into one module, but
> last time i brought that up nobody could agree on a name.
> Anyway I think the change is pretty clean: its similar to having basic stuff like Analyzer.java in core,
> so other things can work with Analyzer without depending on any specific implementing modules.

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jira at apache

Apr 18, 2012, 10:40 AM

Post #2 of 14 (122 views)
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[jira] [Commented] (LUCENE-3997) join module should not depend on grouping module [In reply to]

[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13256740#comment-13256740 ]

Martijn van Groningen commented on LUCENE-3997:
-----------------------------------------------

+1! Good idea. Maybe we can move FunctionValues and ValueSource from the queries modules to core? Then grouping module doesn't have to depend on the queries module.

> join module should not depend on grouping module
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LUCENE-3997
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997
> Project: Lucene - Java
> Issue Type: Task
> Affects Versions: 4.0
> Reporter: Robert Muir
> Fix For: 4.0
>
> Attachments: LUCENE-3997.patch, LUCENE-3997.patch
>
>
> I think TopGroups/GroupDocs should simply be in core?
> Both grouping and join modules use these trivial classes, but join depends on grouping just for them.
> I think its better that we try to minimize these inter-module dependencies.
> Of course, another option is to combine grouping and join into one module, but
> last time i brought that up nobody could agree on a name.
> Anyway I think the change is pretty clean: its similar to having basic stuff like Analyzer.java in core,
> so other things can work with Analyzer without depending on any specific implementing modules.

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jira at apache

Apr 18, 2012, 10:46 AM

Post #3 of 14 (124 views)
Permalink
[jira] [Commented] (LUCENE-3997) join module should not depend on grouping module [In reply to]

[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13256744#comment-13256744 ]

Robert Muir commented on LUCENE-3997:
-------------------------------------

{quote}
Maybe we can move FunctionValues and ValueSource from the queries modules to core? Then grouping module doesn't have to depend on the queries module.
{quote}

+1 (I didn't even think of that or investigate it yet though, but at a glance it looks like the right thing to do).


> join module should not depend on grouping module
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LUCENE-3997
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997
> Project: Lucene - Java
> Issue Type: Task
> Affects Versions: 4.0
> Reporter: Robert Muir
> Fix For: 4.0
>
> Attachments: LUCENE-3997.patch, LUCENE-3997.patch
>
>
> I think TopGroups/GroupDocs should simply be in core?
> Both grouping and join modules use these trivial classes, but join depends on grouping just for them.
> I think its better that we try to minimize these inter-module dependencies.
> Of course, another option is to combine grouping and join into one module, but
> last time i brought that up nobody could agree on a name.
> Anyway I think the change is pretty clean: its similar to having basic stuff like Analyzer.java in core,
> so other things can work with Analyzer without depending on any specific implementing modules.

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jira at apache

Apr 18, 2012, 10:46 AM

Post #4 of 14 (129 views)
Permalink
[jira] [Commented] (LUCENE-3997) join module should not depend on grouping module [In reply to]

[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13256744#comment-13256744 ]

Robert Muir commented on LUCENE-3997:
-------------------------------------

{quote}
Maybe we can move FunctionValues and ValueSource from the queries modules to core? Then grouping module doesn't have to depend on the queries module.
{quote}

+1 (I didn't even think of that or investigate it yet though, but at a glance it looks like the right thing to do).


> join module should not depend on grouping module
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LUCENE-3997
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997
> Project: Lucene - Java
> Issue Type: Task
> Affects Versions: 4.0
> Reporter: Robert Muir
> Fix For: 4.0
>
> Attachments: LUCENE-3997.patch, LUCENE-3997.patch
>
>
> I think TopGroups/GroupDocs should simply be in core?
> Both grouping and join modules use these trivial classes, but join depends on grouping just for them.
> I think its better that we try to minimize these inter-module dependencies.
> Of course, another option is to combine grouping and join into one module, but
> last time i brought that up nobody could agree on a name.
> Anyway I think the change is pretty clean: its similar to having basic stuff like Analyzer.java in core,
> so other things can work with Analyzer without depending on any specific implementing modules.

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jira at apache

Apr 18, 2012, 11:08 AM

Post #5 of 14 (124 views)
Permalink
[jira] [Commented] (LUCENE-3997) join module should not depend on grouping module [In reply to]

[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13256765#comment-13256765 ]

Yonik Seeley commented on LUCENE-3997:
--------------------------------------

I think that if you try to make no modules depend on other modules, you'll end up just pulling pretty much everything into core.

Also, the function query stuff is supposed to be marked as experimental - the notice only got added to FunctionQuery (I think?), so it should be applied to FunctionValues and ValueSource if they are moved to core.

> join module should not depend on grouping module
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LUCENE-3997
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997
> Project: Lucene - Java
> Issue Type: Task
> Affects Versions: 4.0
> Reporter: Robert Muir
> Fix For: 4.0
>
> Attachments: LUCENE-3997.patch, LUCENE-3997.patch
>
>
> I think TopGroups/GroupDocs should simply be in core?
> Both grouping and join modules use these trivial classes, but join depends on grouping just for them.
> I think its better that we try to minimize these inter-module dependencies.
> Of course, another option is to combine grouping and join into one module, but
> last time i brought that up nobody could agree on a name.
> Anyway I think the change is pretty clean: its similar to having basic stuff like Analyzer.java in core,
> so other things can work with Analyzer without depending on any specific implementing modules.

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jira at apache

Apr 18, 2012, 11:14 AM

Post #6 of 14 (123 views)
Permalink
[jira] [Commented] (LUCENE-3997) join module should not depend on grouping module [In reply to]

[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13256772#comment-13256772 ]

Robert Muir commented on LUCENE-3997:
-------------------------------------

{quote}
I think that if you try to make no modules depend on other modules, you'll end up just pulling pretty much everything into core.
{quote}

I don't think we should pull everything into core, but if we pull in the simple abstract APIs we can
have a more pluggable API: just like the abstract Analyzer api is in core, which Highlighter uses,
but you can highlight UIMA or Japanese or ICU or whatever analyzers this way...



> join module should not depend on grouping module
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LUCENE-3997
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997
> Project: Lucene - Java
> Issue Type: Task
> Affects Versions: 4.0
> Reporter: Robert Muir
> Fix For: 4.0
>
> Attachments: LUCENE-3997.patch, LUCENE-3997.patch
>
>
> I think TopGroups/GroupDocs should simply be in core?
> Both grouping and join modules use these trivial classes, but join depends on grouping just for them.
> I think its better that we try to minimize these inter-module dependencies.
> Of course, another option is to combine grouping and join into one module, but
> last time i brought that up nobody could agree on a name.
> Anyway I think the change is pretty clean: its similar to having basic stuff like Analyzer.java in core,
> so other things can work with Analyzer without depending on any specific implementing modules.

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jira at apache

Apr 18, 2012, 11:14 AM

Post #7 of 14 (130 views)
Permalink
[jira] [Commented] (LUCENE-3997) join module should not depend on grouping module [In reply to]

[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13256772#comment-13256772 ]

Robert Muir commented on LUCENE-3997:
-------------------------------------

{quote}
I think that if you try to make no modules depend on other modules, you'll end up just pulling pretty much everything into core.
{quote}

I don't think we should pull everything into core, but if we pull in the simple abstract APIs we can
have a more pluggable API: just like the abstract Analyzer api is in core, which Highlighter uses,
but you can highlight UIMA or Japanese or ICU or whatever analyzers this way...



> join module should not depend on grouping module
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LUCENE-3997
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997
> Project: Lucene - Java
> Issue Type: Task
> Affects Versions: 4.0
> Reporter: Robert Muir
> Fix For: 4.0
>
> Attachments: LUCENE-3997.patch, LUCENE-3997.patch
>
>
> I think TopGroups/GroupDocs should simply be in core?
> Both grouping and join modules use these trivial classes, but join depends on grouping just for them.
> I think its better that we try to minimize these inter-module dependencies.
> Of course, another option is to combine grouping and join into one module, but
> last time i brought that up nobody could agree on a name.
> Anyway I think the change is pretty clean: its similar to having basic stuff like Analyzer.java in core,
> so other things can work with Analyzer without depending on any specific implementing modules.

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jira at apache

Apr 18, 2012, 1:40 PM

Post #8 of 14 (124 views)
Permalink
[jira] [Commented] (LUCENE-3997) join module should not depend on grouping module [In reply to]

[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13256931#comment-13256931 ]

Martijn van Groningen commented on LUCENE-3997:
-----------------------------------------------

I also think we can move these classes to core. These are small classes and we can mark these classes as experimental.

Maybe we can even make this classes 'lighter' by only moving the public methods to core (maybe as interface?). E.g. ValueSource would have all the public methods in core and a BaseValueSource (Or AbstractValueSource) in the queries module that contains ValueSourceComparatorSource and ValueSourceComparator. Just an idea.

I'll create a new issue to not make grouping module depend on the queries module.

> join module should not depend on grouping module
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LUCENE-3997
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997
> Project: Lucene - Java
> Issue Type: Task
> Affects Versions: 4.0
> Reporter: Robert Muir
> Fix For: 4.0
>
> Attachments: LUCENE-3997.patch, LUCENE-3997.patch
>
>
> I think TopGroups/GroupDocs should simply be in core?
> Both grouping and join modules use these trivial classes, but join depends on grouping just for them.
> I think its better that we try to minimize these inter-module dependencies.
> Of course, another option is to combine grouping and join into one module, but
> last time i brought that up nobody could agree on a name.
> Anyway I think the change is pretty clean: its similar to having basic stuff like Analyzer.java in core,
> so other things can work with Analyzer without depending on any specific implementing modules.

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jira at apache

Apr 18, 2012, 8:25 PM

Post #9 of 14 (125 views)
Permalink
[jira] [Commented] (LUCENE-3997) join module should not depend on grouping module [In reply to]

[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13257191#comment-13257191 ]

Michael McCandless commented on LUCENE-3997:
--------------------------------------------

+1

> join module should not depend on grouping module
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LUCENE-3997
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997
> Project: Lucene - Java
> Issue Type: Task
> Affects Versions: 4.0
> Reporter: Robert Muir
> Fix For: 4.0
>
> Attachments: LUCENE-3997.patch, LUCENE-3997.patch
>
>
> I think TopGroups/GroupDocs should simply be in core?
> Both grouping and join modules use these trivial classes, but join depends on grouping just for them.
> I think its better that we try to minimize these inter-module dependencies.
> Of course, another option is to combine grouping and join into one module, but
> last time i brought that up nobody could agree on a name.
> Anyway I think the change is pretty clean: its similar to having basic stuff like Analyzer.java in core,
> so other things can work with Analyzer without depending on any specific implementing modules.

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jira at apache

Apr 19, 2012, 5:36 PM

Post #10 of 14 (123 views)
Permalink
[jira] [Commented] (LUCENE-3997) join module should not depend on grouping module [In reply to]

[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13257942#comment-13257942 ]

Chris Male commented on LUCENE-3997:
------------------------------------

I do echo Yonik's concern here, I don't think we should prevent inter-module dependencies. I think if we move something to lucene/core, it should be because we think its a core API/concept, not just because its used by multiple modules. Analyzer fits into that category, it belongs in core because it is a core concept.

Do we feel the same about TopGroups and GroupDocs? I kind of think we do. But we should move them for that reason, not just to remove the dependency.

> join module should not depend on grouping module
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LUCENE-3997
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997
> Project: Lucene - Java
> Issue Type: Task
> Affects Versions: 4.0
> Reporter: Robert Muir
> Fix For: 4.0
>
> Attachments: LUCENE-3997.patch, LUCENE-3997.patch
>
>
> I think TopGroups/GroupDocs should simply be in core?
> Both grouping and join modules use these trivial classes, but join depends on grouping just for them.
> I think its better that we try to minimize these inter-module dependencies.
> Of course, another option is to combine grouping and join into one module, but
> last time i brought that up nobody could agree on a name.
> Anyway I think the change is pretty clean: its similar to having basic stuff like Analyzer.java in core,
> so other things can work with Analyzer without depending on any specific implementing modules.

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jira at apache

Apr 19, 2012, 5:40 PM

Post #11 of 14 (129 views)
Permalink
[jira] [Commented] (LUCENE-3997) join module should not depend on grouping module [In reply to]

[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13257948#comment-13257948 ]

Chris Male commented on LUCENE-3997:
------------------------------------

{quote}
Of course, another option is to combine grouping and join into one module, but
last time i brought that up nobody could agree on a name.
{quote}

If that is the better option, lets do that. The name seems less important at this stage, we can call it grouping-join if needs be.

> join module should not depend on grouping module
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LUCENE-3997
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997
> Project: Lucene - Java
> Issue Type: Task
> Affects Versions: 4.0
> Reporter: Robert Muir
> Fix For: 4.0
>
> Attachments: LUCENE-3997.patch, LUCENE-3997.patch
>
>
> I think TopGroups/GroupDocs should simply be in core?
> Both grouping and join modules use these trivial classes, but join depends on grouping just for them.
> I think its better that we try to minimize these inter-module dependencies.
> Of course, another option is to combine grouping and join into one module, but
> last time i brought that up nobody could agree on a name.
> Anyway I think the change is pretty clean: its similar to having basic stuff like Analyzer.java in core,
> so other things can work with Analyzer without depending on any specific implementing modules.

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jira at apache

Apr 21, 2012, 2:50 AM

Post #12 of 14 (124 views)
Permalink
[jira] [Commented] (LUCENE-3997) join module should not depend on grouping module [In reply to]

[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13258822#comment-13258822 ]

Martijn van Groningen commented on LUCENE-3997:
-----------------------------------------------

The reason that joining and grouping are different modules is that these are different functionalities. However these functionalities do overlap a bit with each other. Both joining and grouping can be used for a parent child like search. I'm not sure what would be a good option. Joining does use grouping's TopGroups and GroupDocs... If we are going to have a combined module maybe we should name it relational module or parent child module?

> join module should not depend on grouping module
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LUCENE-3997
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997
> Project: Lucene - Java
> Issue Type: Task
> Affects Versions: 4.0
> Reporter: Robert Muir
> Fix For: 4.0
>
> Attachments: LUCENE-3997.patch, LUCENE-3997.patch
>
>
> I think TopGroups/GroupDocs should simply be in core?
> Both grouping and join modules use these trivial classes, but join depends on grouping just for them.
> I think its better that we try to minimize these inter-module dependencies.
> Of course, another option is to combine grouping and join into one module, but
> last time i brought that up nobody could agree on a name.
> Anyway I think the change is pretty clean: its similar to having basic stuff like Analyzer.java in core,
> so other things can work with Analyzer without depending on any specific implementing modules.

--
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jira at apache

Apr 22, 2012, 5:21 AM

Post #13 of 14 (124 views)
Permalink
[jira] [Commented] (LUCENE-3997) join module should not depend on grouping module [In reply to]

[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13259074#comment-13259074 ]

Michael McCandless commented on LUCENE-3997:
--------------------------------------------

I don't think we should combine the two modules.

While they do share a couple classes (to represent a 'grouped' result), the two functions (joining and grouping) are really orthogonal: you can join w/o doing grouping, and you can group w/o doing joining.

I think we should move TopGroups/GroupDocs to core.

> join module should not depend on grouping module
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LUCENE-3997
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997
> Project: Lucene - Java
> Issue Type: Task
> Affects Versions: 4.0
> Reporter: Robert Muir
> Fix For: 4.0
>
> Attachments: LUCENE-3997.patch, LUCENE-3997.patch
>
>
> I think TopGroups/GroupDocs should simply be in core?
> Both grouping and join modules use these trivial classes, but join depends on grouping just for them.
> I think its better that we try to minimize these inter-module dependencies.
> Of course, another option is to combine grouping and join into one module, but
> last time i brought that up nobody could agree on a name.
> Anyway I think the change is pretty clean: its similar to having basic stuff like Analyzer.java in core,
> so other things can work with Analyzer without depending on any specific implementing modules.

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jira at apache

Apr 22, 2012, 5:35 AM

Post #14 of 14 (124 views)
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[jira] [Commented] (LUCENE-3997) join module should not depend on grouping module [In reply to]

[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=13259075#comment-13259075 ]

Chris Male commented on LUCENE-3997:
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To me they seem to share a lot of similarities and the fact they both use the 'grouped' result notion is an illustration of that.

While a group could consist of Documents with any kind of relationship, that kind of a relationship could be parent-child. The nature of the relationship and what the result should consist of (if its a parent-child relationship, should the 'grouped' result be parent and children, just children or just the parent) seem to be what dictates the implementations used.

I feel that having them as a single module would allow us to build some APIs which focus on user land concepts and perhaps hide some of the implementation details and differences in the joining and grouping algorithms.

> join module should not depend on grouping module
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LUCENE-3997
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LUCENE-3997
> Project: Lucene - Java
> Issue Type: Task
> Affects Versions: 4.0
> Reporter: Robert Muir
> Fix For: 4.0
>
> Attachments: LUCENE-3997.patch, LUCENE-3997.patch
>
>
> I think TopGroups/GroupDocs should simply be in core?
> Both grouping and join modules use these trivial classes, but join depends on grouping just for them.
> I think its better that we try to minimize these inter-module dependencies.
> Of course, another option is to combine grouping and join into one module, but
> last time i brought that up nobody could agree on a name.
> Anyway I think the change is pretty clean: its similar to having basic stuff like Analyzer.java in core,
> so other things can work with Analyzer without depending on any specific implementing modules.

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