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Antw: Re: open-iscsi won't automatically log in to set up SBD device

 

 

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Ulrich.Windl at rz

Aug 9, 2012, 12:04 AM

Post #1 of 5 (508 views)
Permalink
Antw: Re: open-iscsi won't automatically log in to set up SBD device

>>> Dejan Muhamedagic <dejanmm [at] fastmail> schrieb am 08.08.2012 um 17:20 in
Nachricht <20120808152017.GG3580 [at] squi>:

[...]
> It is arguably good practice that nodes don't join cluster
> automatically on boot. Normally, one wants to investigate why
> the node rebooted.
[...]

Hi!

Why shouldn't it be possible to find out why a node rebooted when it's automatically joining the cluster?

Unless there is a problem that repeatedly causes the node to boot, it should be OK to automatically join the cluster. Otherwise one might get quorum problems.

IMHO it's better to fix the problems that cause repeated reboots, rather than make cluster startup manual. Isn't "automatic" a prerequisite for HA? ;-)
I'm not a fan of "manual HA".

Regards,
Ulrich


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alain.moulle at bull

Aug 9, 2012, 12:27 AM

Post #2 of 5 (485 views)
Permalink
Re: Antw: Re: open-iscsi won't automatically log in to set up SBD device [In reply to]

Hi,

I do not agree, that's not because we have to start manually HA soft on a
rebooted node that we
can say "manual HA" ... I've already had lots of configurations with HA
solution, from HACMP (IBM) ,
Cluster Suite (RH) and finally Pacemaker, and none of users wants an HA
auto start at boot time
for an obvious reason : if it is a breakdown that brokes the node after
each boot (i.e a little HW problem, etc.)
it will always be fenced a short while after reboot and at worse may
disturb other node(s) which are always
working . So in this case, you can't say "better to fix the problem which
leads to repeated reboots"
as before the breakdone there was no problem ... that's why I personnally
(and it is always recommended)
never recommend to start HA at boot time.
So I'm not fan of "HA autostart " ;-)

Alain




De : "Ulrich Windl" <Ulrich.Windl [at] rz>
A : "General Linux-HA mailing list" <linux-ha [at] lists>
Date : 09/08/2012 09:04
Objet : [Linux-HA] Antw: Re: open-iscsi won't automatically log in to set
up SBD device
Envoyé par : linux-ha-bounces [at] lists



>>> Dejan Muhamedagic <dejanmm [at] fastmail> schrieb am 08.08.2012 um 17:20
in
Nachricht <20120808152017.GG3580 [at] squi>:

[...]
> It is arguably good practice that nodes don't join cluster
> automatically on boot. Normally, one wants to investigate why
> the node rebooted.
[...]

Hi!

Why shouldn't it be possible to find out why a node rebooted when it's
automatically joining the cluster?

Unless there is a problem that repeatedly causes the node to boot, it
should be OK to automatically join the cluster. Otherwise one might get
quorum problems.

IMHO it's better to fix the problems that cause repeated reboots, rather
than make cluster startup manual. Isn't "automatic" a prerequisite for HA?
;-)
I'm not a fan of "manual HA".

Regards,
Ulrich


_______________________________________________
Linux-HA mailing list
Linux-HA [at] lists
http://lists.linux-ha.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-ha
See also: http://linux-ha.org/ReportingProblems

_______________________________________________
Linux-HA mailing list
Linux-HA [at] lists
http://lists.linux-ha.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-ha
See also: http://linux-ha.org/ReportingProblems


Ulrich.Windl at rz

Aug 9, 2012, 12:46 AM

Post #3 of 5 (489 views)
Permalink
Re: Antw: Re: open-iscsi won't automatically log in to set up SBD device [In reply to]

Hi!

Coming from PA-RISC and HP Integrity Servers with a Swicthover and
Serviceguard background), I'd say if a server is healthy enough to boot, it
should try to join the cluster: If it's able to join the cluster, it should be
healthy enough to run resources. Eventually it's the task of the cluster
software to find out which resources may run.

IMHO most cluster problems are software or configuration problems, not
hardware problems. Booting will probably not fix any of those, but maybe it
will make them obvious.

Regards,
Ulrich

>>> <alain.moulle [at] bull> schrieb am 09.08.2012 um 09:27 in Nachricht
<OF6629794C.1418036F-ONC1257A55.002709DD-C1257A55.0028F151 [at] bull>:
> Hi,
>
> I do not agree, that's not because we have to start manually HA soft on a
> rebooted node that we
> can say "manual HA" ... I've already had lots of configurations with HA
> solution, from HACMP (IBM) ,
> Cluster Suite (RH) and finally Pacemaker, and none of users wants an HA
> auto start at boot time
> for an obvious reason : if it is a breakdown that brokes the node after
> each boot (i.e a little HW problem, etc.)
> it will always be fenced a short while after reboot and at worse may
> disturb other node(s) which are always
> working . So in this case, you can't say "better to fix the problem which
> leads to repeated reboots"
> as before the breakdone there was no problem ... that's why I personnally
> (and it is always recommended)
> never recommend to start HA at boot time.
> So I'm not fan of "HA autostart " ;-)
>
> Alain
>
>
>
>
> De : "Ulrich Windl" <Ulrich.Windl [at] rz>
> A : "General Linux-HA mailing list" <linux-ha [at] lists>
> Date : 09/08/2012 09:04
> Objet : [Linux-HA] Antw: Re: open-iscsi won't automatically log in to set
> up SBD device
> Envoyé par : linux-ha-bounces [at] lists
>
>
>
>>>> Dejan Muhamedagic <dejanmm [at] fastmail> schrieb am 08.08.2012 um 17:20
> in
> Nachricht <20120808152017.GG3580 [at] squi>:
>
> [...]
> > It is arguably good practice that nodes don't join cluster
> > automatically on boot. Normally, one wants to investigate why
> > the node rebooted.
> [...]
>
> Hi!
>
> Why shouldn't it be possible to find out why a node rebooted when it's
> automatically joining the cluster?
>
> Unless there is a problem that repeatedly causes the node to boot, it
> should be OK to automatically join the cluster. Otherwise one might get
> quorum problems.
>
> IMHO it's better to fix the problems that cause repeated reboots, rather
> than make cluster startup manual. Isn't "automatic" a prerequisite for HA?
> ;-)
> I'm not a fan of "manual HA".
>
> Regards,
> Ulrich
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-HA mailing list
> Linux-HA [at] lists
> http://lists.linux-ha.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-ha
> See also: http://linux-ha.org/ReportingProblems
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-HA mailing list
> Linux-HA [at] lists
> http://lists.linux-ha.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-ha
> See also: http://linux-ha.org/ReportingProblems
>



_______________________________________________
Linux-HA mailing list
Linux-HA [at] lists
http://lists.linux-ha.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-ha
See also: http://linux-ha.org/ReportingProblems


alain.moulle at bull

Aug 9, 2012, 1:10 AM

Post #4 of 5 (498 views)
Permalink
Re: Antw: Re: open-iscsi won't automatically log in to set up SBD device [In reply to]

Still don't agree, but the good thing is that everyone has the choice
between both configuration autostart or noautostart ;-)
Alain



De : "Ulrich Windl" <Ulrich.Windl [at] rz>
A : "General Linux-HA mailing list" <linux-ha [at] lists>
Date : 09/08/2012 09:46
Objet : Re: [Linux-HA] Antw: Re: open-iscsi won't automatically log in to
set up SBD device
Envoyé par : linux-ha-bounces [at] lists



Hi!

Coming from PA-RISC and HP Integrity Servers with a Swicthover and
Serviceguard background), I'd say if a server is healthy enough to boot,
it
should try to join the cluster: If it's able to join the cluster, it
should be
healthy enough to run resources. Eventually it's the task of the cluster
software to find out which resources may run.

IMHO most cluster problems are software or configuration problems, not
hardware problems. Booting will probably not fix any of those, but maybe
it
will make them obvious.

Regards,
Ulrich

>>> <alain.moulle [at] bull> schrieb am 09.08.2012 um 09:27 in Nachricht
<OF6629794C.1418036F-ONC1257A55.002709DD-C1257A55.0028F151 [at] bull>:
> Hi,
>
> I do not agree, that's not because we have to start manually HA soft on
a
> rebooted node that we
> can say "manual HA" ... I've already had lots of configurations with HA
> solution, from HACMP (IBM) ,
> Cluster Suite (RH) and finally Pacemaker, and none of users wants an HA
> auto start at boot time
> for an obvious reason : if it is a breakdown that brokes the node after
> each boot (i.e a little HW problem, etc.)
> it will always be fenced a short while after reboot and at worse may
> disturb other node(s) which are always
> working . So in this case, you can't say "better to fix the problem
which
> leads to repeated reboots"
> as before the breakdone there was no problem ... that's why I
personnally
> (and it is always recommended)
> never recommend to start HA at boot time.
> So I'm not fan of "HA autostart " ;-)
>
> Alain
>
>
>
>
> De : "Ulrich Windl" <Ulrich.Windl [at] rz>
> A : "General Linux-HA mailing list" <linux-ha [at] lists>
> Date : 09/08/2012 09:04
> Objet : [Linux-HA] Antw: Re: open-iscsi won't automatically log in to
set
> up SBD device
> Envoyé par : linux-ha-bounces [at] lists
>
>
>
>>>> Dejan Muhamedagic <dejanmm [at] fastmail> schrieb am 08.08.2012 um
17:20
> in
> Nachricht <20120808152017.GG3580 [at] squi>:
>
> [...]
> > It is arguably good practice that nodes don't join cluster
> > automatically on boot. Normally, one wants to investigate why
> > the node rebooted.
> [...]
>
> Hi!
>
> Why shouldn't it be possible to find out why a node rebooted when it's
> automatically joining the cluster?
>
> Unless there is a problem that repeatedly causes the node to boot, it
> should be OK to automatically join the cluster. Otherwise one might get
> quorum problems.
>
> IMHO it's better to fix the problems that cause repeated reboots, rather

> than make cluster startup manual. Isn't "automatic" a prerequisite for
HA?
> ;-)
> I'm not a fan of "manual HA".
>
> Regards,
> Ulrich
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-HA mailing list
> Linux-HA [at] lists
> http://lists.linux-ha.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-ha
> See also: http://linux-ha.org/ReportingProblems
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-HA mailing list
> Linux-HA [at] lists
> http://lists.linux-ha.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-ha
> See also: http://linux-ha.org/ReportingProblems
>



_______________________________________________
Linux-HA mailing list
Linux-HA [at] lists
http://lists.linux-ha.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-ha
See also: http://linux-ha.org/ReportingProblems
_______________________________________________
Linux-HA mailing list
Linux-HA [at] lists
http://lists.linux-ha.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-ha
See also: http://linux-ha.org/ReportingProblems


dmaziuk at bmrb

Aug 9, 2012, 10:31 AM

Post #5 of 5 (482 views)
Permalink
Re: Antw: Re: open-iscsi won't automatically log in to set up SBD device [In reply to]

On 08/09/2012 03:10 AM, alain.moulle [at] bull wrote:
> Still don't agree, but the good thing is that everyone has the choice
> between both configuration autostart or noautostart ;-)

It's what you're trying to "ha" against:
- if your hardware spontaneously reboots every high tide and gremlins
are running inside messing with software installs and configs, then of
course you don't want autostart.

- If your main concern is hardware failure and main reason for reboot: a
manual os update, then you probably want autostart.

--
Dimitri Maziuk
Programmer/sysadmin
BioMagResBank, UW-Madison -- http://www.bmrb.wisc.edu
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