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Netfilter List cross-subscription [Re: Test]

 

 

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kaber at trash

Sep 17, 2007, 4:47 AM

Post #1 of 11 (9101 views)
Permalink
Netfilter List cross-subscription [Re: Test]

Patrick McHardy wrote:
> netfilter-devel cross-subscription test, please ignore


The cross-subscription appears to work, unfortunately (due to the
subscriber-only posting settings of the old list) senders to the
new lists that are not subscribed to the old one will receive a
"held for moderator approval" mail for each post. Since this is
probably quite annoying for everyone, I'm not sure whether we
should really do the cross-subscription thing.

Any better ideas or suggestions?
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robbie at microbus

Sep 17, 2007, 6:41 AM

Post #2 of 11 (8765 views)
Permalink
Re: Netfilter List cross-subscription [Re: Test] [In reply to]

/Lurk mode off/
Replying off list because this might be stupid/irrelevant/off topic.

Patrick McHardy wrote:
> Patrick McHardy wrote:
>> netfilter-devel cross-subscription test, please ignore
>
>
> The cross-subscription appears to work, unfortunately (due to the
> subscriber-only posting settings of the old list) senders to the
> new lists that are not subscribed to the old one will receive a
> "held for moderator approval" mail for each post. Since this is
> probably quite annoying for everyone, I'm not sure whether we
> should really do the cross-subscription thing.
>
> Any better ideas or suggestions?

You could bounce messages sent to netfilter-devel [at] lists
If the bounce message contained a
"mailing list has moved to netfilter-devel [at] lists" message,
then assuming that people bother to read their bounces or don't routinely
discard them, then they would eventually get to send the message to the
right list.

Postfix has a relocated table for these "user has moved to new_location"
messages. But you are using exim. I am not familiar with exim but perhaps
it has something similar?

/Lurk mode on/
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kaber at trash

Sep 17, 2007, 7:08 AM

Post #3 of 11 (8754 views)
Permalink
Re: Netfilter List cross-subscription [Re: Test] [In reply to]

Robbie Dinn wrote:
> /Lurk mode off/
> Replying off list because this might be stupid/irrelevant/off topic.


It was on-list but I prefer to keep the discussion open anyways :)

> Patrick McHardy wrote:
>
>>The cross-subscription appears to work, unfortunately (due to the
>>subscriber-only posting settings of the old list) senders to the
>>new lists that are not subscribed to the old one will receive a
>>"held for moderator approval" mail for each post. Since this is
>>probably quite annoying for everyone, I'm not sure whether we
>>should really do the cross-subscription thing.
>>
>>Any better ideas or suggestions?
>
>
> You could bounce messages sent to netfilter-devel [at] lists
> If the bounce message contained a
> "mailing list has moved to netfilter-devel [at] lists" message,
> then assuming that people bother to read their bounces or don't routinely
> discard them, then they would eventually get to send the message to the
> right list.
>
> Postfix has a relocated table for these "user has moved to new_location"
> messages. But you are using exim. I am not familiar with exim but perhaps
> it has something similar?


I don't know, but something like that should work. I think its not
too much asked of people to resubscribe, so my suggestion is to
simply disable the netfilter.org lists, generate a bounce message
and have people resubscribe. The amount of dead subscriptions seems
to be very high anyways, after only 10 hours of forwarding bounce
messages to my address I got around 6000 emails.

If there are no (reasonable) objections I'll try to reconfigure
mailman to do this tonight.

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pascal.mail at plouf

Sep 17, 2007, 8:23 AM

Post #4 of 11 (8752 views)
Permalink
Re: Netfilter List cross-subscription [In reply to]

Hello,

Patrick McHardy a écrit :
>
> The cross-subscription appears to work, unfortunately (due to the
> subscriber-only posting settings of the old list) senders to the
> new lists that are not subscribed to the old one will receive a
> "held for moderator approval" mail for each post.

By the way, do the new netfilter lists at vger.kernel.org require that
the sender address be subscribed too ? (this post will test)

> Since this is
> probably quite annoying for everyone, I'm not sure whether we
> should really do the cross-subscription thing.
>
> Any better ideas or suggestions?

What about removing the subscriber-only posting setting on the old lists
at lists.netfilter.org ?

PS : Messages posted to the new lists are received on the old lists, but
it seems to me that messages posted to the old lists are not received on
the new lists. Is this on purpose ?

PPS : Where are the archives on lists.netfilter.org ? It now says
"forbidden".
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tgraf at suug

Sep 17, 2007, 8:30 AM

Post #5 of 11 (8755 views)
Permalink
Re: Netfilter List cross-subscription [Re: Test] [In reply to]

* Patrick McHardy <kaber [at] trash> 2007-09-17 13:47
> Patrick McHardy wrote:
> > netfilter-devel cross-subscription test, please ignore
>
>
> The cross-subscription appears to work, unfortunately (due to the
> subscriber-only posting settings of the old list) senders to the
> new lists that are not subscribed to the old one will receive a
> "held for moderator approval" mail for each post. Since this is
> probably quite annoying for everyone, I'm not sure whether we
> should really do the cross-subscription thing.

What about just disabling the subscriber-only setting on the old
list for the time being?? It's going to disappear anyways, no?
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max at rfc2324

Sep 17, 2007, 10:06 AM

Post #6 of 11 (8737 views)
Permalink
Re: Netfilter List cross-subscription [Re: Test] [In reply to]

Am Monday, den 17 September hub Patrick McHardy folgendes in die Tasten:

> Patrick McHardy wrote:
> > netfilter-devel cross-subscription test, please ignore

> The cross-subscription appears to work, unfortunately (due to the
> subscriber-only posting settings of the old list) senders to the
> new lists that are not subscribed to the old one will receive a
> "held for moderator approval" mail for each post. Since this is
> probably quite annoying for everyone, I'm not sure whether we
> should really do the cross-subscription thing.

> Any better ideas or suggestions?

Did I get this right, that the old and the new list will be run in
parallel for a while and this will probably make trouble?

# define Hackvalue 42
What about moving all subscriptions to the new list and forward the
old address to the new one?

Ciao
Max
--
Follow the white penguin.


davem at davemloft

Sep 17, 2007, 10:10 AM

Post #7 of 11 (8764 views)
Permalink
Re: Netfilter List cross-subscription [In reply to]

From: Maximilian Wilhelm <max [at] rfc2324>
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:06:49 +0200

> What about moving all subscriptions

We decided not to do this, and this is general vger.kernel.org
list policy.

If we move the subscribers, this guarentees that half of the
list will bounce into postmaster's (read as: my) mailbox.

And if people don't learn how to subscribe to the new list
location by doing it themselves, they'll generally not be able
to unsubscribe from the new location which creates large levels
of frustration for the users and postmaster (read as: me).

It is also generally rude to subscribe someone to a site they
did not explicitly ask to be added to.

This is just reiterating what we discussed at the workshop,
it's a pain to keep stating this stuff over and over :-)


davem at davemloft

Sep 17, 2007, 10:13 AM

Post #8 of 11 (8749 views)
Permalink
Re: Netfilter List cross-subscription [In reply to]

From: Patrick McHardy <kaber [at] trash>
Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:47:34 +0200

> Any better ideas or suggestions?

Just don't forward, and every few days send an automatic
mail to the old list saying where the new list location is
and also give a pointer to a list archival site so that
they can catch up on any postings they might have missed.

If you want to get the ball rolling about this, toss an
email to webguy [at] theaimsgroup asking them to adjust
the netfilter list archives they have to suck things in
from the new lists at vger.

Then you can use the marc.info URL as an archive location.

Or you can continue to archive at netfilter.org if you
like and point people there.

Either way will work.
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kaber at trash

Sep 18, 2007, 4:21 AM

Post #9 of 11 (8750 views)
Permalink
Re: Netfilter List cross-subscription [Re: Test] [In reply to]

Thomas Graf wrote:
> * Patrick McHardy <kaber [at] trash> 2007-09-17 13:47
>
>>Patrick McHardy wrote:
>>
>>>netfilter-devel cross-subscription test, please ignore
>>
>>
>>The cross-subscription appears to work, unfortunately (due to the
>>subscriber-only posting settings of the old list) senders to the
>>new lists that are not subscribed to the old one will receive a
>>"held for moderator approval" mail for each post. Since this is
>>probably quite annoying for everyone, I'm not sure whether we
>>should really do the cross-subscription thing.
>
>
> What about just disabling the subscriber-only setting on the old
> list for the time being?? It's going to disappear anyways, no?


That might motivate people to use the new list :) But I think
all this effort is pretty useless, people should just subscribe
to the new list.

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kaber at trash

Sep 18, 2007, 4:23 AM

Post #10 of 11 (8754 views)
Permalink
Re: Netfilter List cross-subscription [In reply to]

David Miller wrote:
> From: Patrick McHardy <kaber [at] trash>
> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 13:47:34 +0200
>
>
>>Any better ideas or suggestions?
>
>
> Just don't forward, and every few days send an automatic
> mail to the old list saying where the new list location is
> and also give a pointer to a list archival site so that
> they can catch up on any postings they might have missed.


I'm going to do that, all this effort on keeping the old list
running for a short period is pretty much wasted time IMO.

Thanks.
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kaber at trash

Sep 18, 2007, 4:25 AM

Post #11 of 11 (8739 views)
Permalink
Re: Netfilter List cross-subscription [In reply to]

Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Patrick McHardy a écrit :
>
>>
>> The cross-subscription appears to work, unfortunately (due to the
>> subscriber-only posting settings of the old list) senders to the
>> new lists that are not subscribed to the old one will receive a
>> "held for moderator approval" mail for each post.
>
>
> By the way, do the new netfilter lists at vger.kernel.org require that
> the sender address be subscribed too ? (this post will test)


No, thats one of the reasons for the move (the other one being
the overhead of manual moderation).

>
>> Since this is
>> probably quite annoying for everyone, I'm not sure whether we
>> should really do the cross-subscription thing.
>>
>> Any better ideas or suggestions?
>
>
> What about removing the subscriber-only posting setting on the old lists
> at lists.netfilter.org ?
>
> PS : Messages posted to the new lists are received on the old lists, but
> it seems to me that messages posted to the old lists are not received on
> the new lists. Is this on purpose ?


Yes, it would loop otherwise I guess. Anyways, I'm going to remove
the cross subscription and add an auto-response on the old list
telling people about the move.

> PPS : Where are the archives on lists.netfilter.org ? It now says
> "forbidden".


Thats fallout from the move to Debian. Should be fixed soon.
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