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Interchange demo: userdb mail_list field cannot be set to empty

 

 

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tverhagen at alamerce

Nov 5, 2009, 7:52 AM

Post #1 of 14 (2388 views)
Permalink
Interchange demo: userdb mail_list field cannot be set to empty

Dear IC'ers,

In the current demo on www.icdevgroup.org it is not possible to set
the userdb field mail_list to an empty value.
In other words, users are not able to unsubscribe from all mailing
lists. The last value always remains active.

The demo uses a multiple select box for this feature. I have also
tried checkboxes with no avail.

Any ideas?

Kind regards,

Ton



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ton at verhagen

Nov 5, 2009, 8:36 AM

Post #2 of 14 (2288 views)
Permalink
Re: Interchange demo: userdb mail_list field cannot be set to empty [In reply to]

Ton Verhagen wrote:

> Dear IC'ers,
>
> In the current demo on www.icdevgroup.org it is not possible to set
> the userdb field mail_list to an empty value.
> In other words, users are not able to unsubscribe from all mailing
> lists. The last value always remains active.
>
> The demo uses a multiple select box for this feature. I have also
> tried checkboxes with no avail.
>
> Any ideas?


Apparently an empty cgi variable does not overwrite an existing value
variable.

Placing the IC tag below at the bottom of the member/account.html page
solves this issue.

[value name='mail_list' value='']


Best,

Ton


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mike at perusion

Nov 5, 2009, 9:27 AM

Post #3 of 14 (2296 views)
Permalink
Re: Interchange demo: userdb mail_list field cannot be set to empty [In reply to]

Quoting Ton Verhagen (ton [at] verhagen):
>
> Ton Verhagen wrote:
>
> >Dear IC'ers,
> >
> >In the current demo on www.icdevgroup.org it is not possible to set
> >the userdb field mail_list to an empty value.
> >In other words, users are not able to unsubscribe from all mailing
> >lists. The last value always remains active.
> >
> >The demo uses a multiple select box for this feature. I have also
> >tried checkboxes with no avail.
> >
> >Any ideas?
>
>
> Apparently an empty cgi variable does not overwrite an existing value
> variable.
>

This is not true at all.

You can test it yourself:

http://demo.icdevgroup.org/i/demo1/ord/checkout?fname=ton&mv_action=refresh

That will show your name. Now do:

http://demo.icdevgroup.org/i/demo1/ord/checkout?fname=&mv_action=refresh

--
Mike Heins
Perusion -- Expert Interchange Consulting http://www.perusion.com/
phone +1.765.328.4479 <mike [at] perusion>

Experience is what allows you to recognize a mistake the second
time you make it. -- unknown

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ton at verhagen

Nov 5, 2009, 9:32 AM

Post #4 of 14 (2284 views)
Permalink
Re: Interchange demo: userdb mail_list field cannot be set to empty [In reply to]

Quoting Mike Heins wrote:

> Quoting Ton Verhagen (ton [at] verhagen):
>>
>> Ton Verhagen wrote:
>>
>>> Dear IC'ers,
>>>
>>> In the current demo on www.icdevgroup.org it is not possible to set
>>> the userdb field mail_list to an empty value.
>>> In other words, users are not able to unsubscribe from all mailing
>>> lists. The last value always remains active.
>>>
>>> The demo uses a multiple select box for this feature. I have also
>>> tried checkboxes with no avail.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>
>>
>> Apparently an empty cgi variable does not overwrite an existing value
>> variable.
>>
>
> This is not true at all.
>
> You can test it yourself:
>
> http://demo.icdevgroup.org/i/demo1/ord/checkout?fname=ton&mv_action=refresh
>
> That will show your name. Now do:
>
> http://demo.icdevgroup.org/i/demo1/ord/checkout?fname=&mv_action=refresh


You might be right in this regard.

But please try similar things with check boxes and/or multiple selects:
an empty selection (no checkboxes ticked) won't overwrite an existing
value in the session.

Best,

Ton



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racke at linuxia

Nov 5, 2009, 9:38 AM

Post #5 of 14 (2283 views)
Permalink
Re: Interchange demo: userdb mail_list field cannot be set to empty [In reply to]

Ton Verhagen wrote:
>
> Quoting Mike Heins wrote:
>
>> Quoting Ton Verhagen (ton [at] verhagen):
>>>
>>> Ton Verhagen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear IC'ers,
>>>>
>>>> In the current demo on www.icdevgroup.org it is not possible to set
>>>> the userdb field mail_list to an empty value.
>>>> In other words, users are not able to unsubscribe from all mailing
>>>> lists. The last value always remains active.
>>>>
>>>> The demo uses a multiple select box for this feature. I have also
>>>> tried checkboxes with no avail.
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>>
>>> Apparently an empty cgi variable does not overwrite an existing value
>>> variable.
>>>
>>
>> This is not true at all.
>>
>> You can test it yourself:
>>
>>
>> http://demo.icdevgroup.org/i/demo1/ord/checkout?fname=ton&mv_action=refresh
>>
>>
>> That will show your name. Now do:
>>
>>
>> http://demo.icdevgroup.org/i/demo1/ord/checkout?fname=&mv_action=refresh
>
>
> You might be right in this regard.
>
> But please try similar things with check boxes and/or multiple selects:
> an empty selection (no checkboxes ticked) won't overwrite an existing
> value in the session.
>

Yeah, but the better solution is probably do set the mail_list value inside
"Save_database" scratch.

Regards
Racke


--
LinuXia Systems => http://www.linuxia.de/
Expert Interchange Consulting and System Administration
ICDEVGROUP => http://www.icdevgroup.org/
Interchange Development Team


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mike at perusion

Nov 5, 2009, 9:46 AM

Post #6 of 14 (2290 views)
Permalink
Re: Interchange demo: userdb mail_list field cannot be set to empty [In reply to]

Quoting Ton Verhagen (ton [at] verhagen):
>
> Quoting Mike Heins wrote:
>
> >Quoting Ton Verhagen (ton [at] verhagen):
> >>
> >>Ton Verhagen wrote:
> >>
> >>>Dear IC'ers,
> >>>
> >>>In the current demo on www.icdevgroup.org it is not possible to set
> >>>the userdb field mail_list to an empty value.
> >>>In other words, users are not able to unsubscribe from all mailing
> >>>lists. The last value always remains active.
> >>>
> >>>The demo uses a multiple select box for this feature. I have also
> >>>tried checkboxes with no avail.
> >>>
> >>>Any ideas?
> >>
> >>
> >>Apparently an empty cgi variable does not overwrite an existing value
> >>variable.
> >>
> >
> >This is not true at all.
> >
> >You can test it yourself:
> >
> > http://demo.icdevgroup.org/i/demo1/ord/checkout?fname=ton&mv_action=refresh
> >
> >That will show your name. Now do:
> >
> > http://demo.icdevgroup.org/i/demo1/ord/checkout?fname=&mv_action=refresh
>
>
> You might be right in this regard.
>
> But please try similar things with check boxes and/or multiple selects:
> an empty selection (no checkboxes ticked) won't overwrite an existing
> value in the session.

That would depend on your browser. If the thing is sent, it will be honored.
If it isn't, it can't be.

In any case, if you made a patch to the account page in the main branch,
you need to back it out. It is not valid.

--
Mike Heins
Perusion -- Expert Interchange Consulting http://www.perusion.com/
phone +1.765.328.4479 <mike [at] perusion>

There's nothing sweeter than life nor more precious than time.
-- Barney

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mike at perusion

Nov 5, 2009, 9:49 AM

Post #7 of 14 (2291 views)
Permalink
Re: Interchange demo: userdb mail_list field cannot be set to empty [In reply to]

Quoting Stefan Hornburg (Racke) (racke [at] linuxia):
> Ton Verhagen wrote:
> >
> >Quoting Mike Heins wrote:
> >
> >>Quoting Ton Verhagen (ton [at] verhagen):
> >>>
> >>>Ton Verhagen wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Dear IC'ers,
> >>>>
> >>>>In the current demo on www.icdevgroup.org it is not possible to set
> >>>>the userdb field mail_list to an empty value.
> >>>>In other words, users are not able to unsubscribe from all mailing
> >>>>lists. The last value always remains active.
> >>>>
> >>>>The demo uses a multiple select box for this feature. I have also
> >>>>tried checkboxes with no avail.
> >>>>
> >>>>Any ideas?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Apparently an empty cgi variable does not overwrite an existing value
> >>>variable.
> >>>
> >>
> >>This is not true at all.
> >>
> >>You can test it yourself:
> >>
> >>
> >>http://demo.icdevgroup.org/i/demo1/ord/checkout?fname=ton&mv_action=refresh
> >>
> >>
> >>That will show your name. Now do:
> >>
> >>
> >>http://demo.icdevgroup.org/i/demo1/ord/checkout?fname=&mv_action=refresh
> >
> >
> >You might be right in this regard.
> >
> >But please try similar things with check boxes and/or multiple selects:
> >an empty selection (no checkboxes ticked) won't overwrite an existing
> >value in the session.
> >
>
> Yeah, but the better solution is probably do set the mail_list value inside
> "Save_database" scratch.

Yes, or something. You could do:

[calc]
$Values->{mail_list} ||= 'none';
return;
[/calc]

--
Mike Heins
Perusion -- Expert Interchange Consulting http://www.perusion.com/
phone +1.765.328.4479 <mike [at] perusion>

There's nothing sweeter than life nor more precious than time.
-- Barney

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peter at pajamian

Nov 5, 2009, 9:55 AM

Post #8 of 14 (2288 views)
Permalink
Re: Interchange demo: userdb mail_list field cannot be set to empty [In reply to]

On 11/05/2009 09:46 AM, Mike Heins wrote:
> That would depend on your browser. If the thing is sent, it will be honored.
> If it isn't, it can't be.

It's a bit of a moot point for this discussion, but the HTML4.01
specification does state that a checkbox must be checked to be
submitted, and that only selected elements of a select are submitted
(note that it actually uses the term "successful" and then later states
that the form dataset is comprised of successful controls). See
<http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#successful-controls>.

> In any case, if you made a patch to the account page in the main branch,
> you need to back it out. It is not valid.

Agreed, we need to find a better solution to this issue.


Peter

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david at endpoint

Nov 5, 2009, 9:58 AM

Post #9 of 14 (2289 views)
Permalink
Re: Interchange demo: userdb mail_list field cannot be set to empty [In reply to]

On Nov 5, 2009, at 11:49 AM, Mike Heins wrote:

> Quoting Stefan Hornburg (Racke) (racke [at] linuxia):
>> Ton Verhagen wrote:
>>>
>>> Quoting Mike Heins wrote:
>>>
>>>> Quoting Ton Verhagen (ton [at] verhagen):
>>>>>
>>>>> Ton Verhagen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear IC'ers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the current demo on www.icdevgroup.org it is not possible to
>>>>>> set
>>>>>> the userdb field mail_list to an empty value.
>>>>>> In other words, users are not able to unsubscribe from all
>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>> lists. The last value always remains active.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The demo uses a multiple select box for this feature. I have also
>>>>>> tried checkboxes with no avail.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Apparently an empty cgi variable does not overwrite an existing
>>>>> value
>>>>> variable.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is not true at all.
>>>>
>>>> You can test it yourself:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://demo.icdevgroup.org/i/demo1/ord/checkout?fname=ton&mv_action=refresh
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That will show your name. Now do:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://demo.icdevgroup.org/i/demo1/ord/checkout?fname=&mv_action=refresh
>>>
>>>
>>> You might be right in this regard.
>>>
>>> But please try similar things with check boxes and/or multiple
>>> selects:
>>> an empty selection (no checkboxes ticked) won't overwrite an
>>> existing
>>> value in the session.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, but the better solution is probably do set the mail_list
>> value inside
>> "Save_database" scratch.
>
> Yes, or something. You could do:
>
> [calc]
> $Values->{mail_list} ||= 'none';
> return;
> [/calc]


Wouldn't an empty hidden with the same name work in that regard? If
checkboxes are not checked, they are not included in the CGI params,
so they cannot be unset in that fashion; an empty hidden would provide
the 'name=' that you need, although some filter may be needed to strip
the \0 from the value when a "real" value is included.

Regards,

David
--
David Christensen
End Point Corporation
david [at] endpoint





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mike at perusion

Nov 5, 2009, 10:09 AM

Post #10 of 14 (2296 views)
Permalink
Re: Interchange demo: userdb mail_list field cannot be set to empty [In reply to]

Quoting David Christensen (david [at] endpoint):
>
> On Nov 5, 2009, at 11:49 AM, Mike Heins wrote:
>
> >Quoting Stefan Hornburg (Racke) (racke [at] linuxia):
> >>Ton Verhagen wrote:
> >>>
> >>>Quoting Mike Heins wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Quoting Ton Verhagen (ton [at] verhagen):
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Ton Verhagen wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Dear IC'ers,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>In the current demo on www.icdevgroup.org it is not possible to
> >>>>>>set
> >>>>>>the userdb field mail_list to an empty value.
> >>>>>>In other words, users are not able to unsubscribe from all
> >>>>>>mailing
> >>>>>>lists. The last value always remains active.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The demo uses a multiple select box for this feature. I have also
> >>>>>>tried checkboxes with no avail.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Any ideas?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Apparently an empty cgi variable does not overwrite an existing
> >>>>>value
> >>>>>variable.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>This is not true at all.
> >>>>
> >>>>You can test it yourself:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>http://demo.icdevgroup.org/i/demo1/ord/checkout?fname=ton&mv_action=refresh
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>That will show your name. Now do:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>http://demo.icdevgroup.org/i/demo1/ord/checkout?fname=&mv_action=refresh
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>You might be right in this regard.
> >>>
> >>>But please try similar things with check boxes and/or multiple
> >>>selects:
> >>>an empty selection (no checkboxes ticked) won't overwrite an
> >>>existing
> >>>value in the session.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Yeah, but the better solution is probably do set the mail_list
> >>value inside
> >>"Save_database" scratch.
> >
> >Yes, or something. You could do:
> >
> > [calc]
> > $Values->{mail_list} ||= 'none';
> > return;
> > [/calc]
>
>
> Wouldn't an empty hidden with the same name work in that regard? If
> checkboxes are not checked, they are not included in the CGI params,
> so they cannot be unset in that fashion; an empty hidden would provide
> the 'name=' that you need, although some filter may be needed to strip
> the \0 from the value when a "real" value is included.
>

Good idea. The widget for detecting the current value should still work
just fine with that.

<form>
[display table=userdb type=multiple column=mail_list key="[data session username]" applylocale=1]
<input type="hidden" name="mail_list" value="">
<input type="hidden" name="mail_list" value="">
</form>

You could also rewrite the filter (null to space in this case) to poke a
blank value into variable if there was nothing present.

--
Mike Heins
Perusion -- Expert Interchange Consulting http://www.perusion.com/
phone +1.765.328.4479 <mike [at] perusion>

Fast, reliable, cheap. Pick two and we'll talk.
-- unknown

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mike at perusion

Nov 5, 2009, 10:11 AM

Post #11 of 14 (2290 views)
Permalink
Re: Interchange demo: userdb mail_list field cannot be set to empty [In reply to]

Quoting Peter (peter [at] pajamian):
> On 11/05/2009 09:46 AM, Mike Heins wrote:
> > That would depend on your browser. If the thing is sent, it will be honored.
> > If it isn't, it can't be.
>
> It's a bit of a moot point for this discussion, but the HTML4.01
> specification does state that a checkbox must be checked to be
> submitted, and that only selected elements of a select are submitted
> (note that it actually uses the term "successful" and then later states
> that the form dataset is comprised of successful controls). See
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#successful-controls>.

Browsers for a long time have followed this. But not all have forever.

>
> > In any case, if you made a patch to the account page in the main branch,
> > you need to back it out. It is not valid.
>
> Agreed, we need to find a better solution to this issue.
>

We have been dealing with the basic behavior for many years. You can see
accommodations to it all over Interchange. The mail list thing, probably due
to lack of use, was not done right.

--
Mike Heins
Perusion -- Expert Interchange Consulting http://www.perusion.com/
phone +1.765.328.4479 <mike [at] perusion>

Unix version of an Outlook-style virus:
It works on the honor system. Please forward this message to everyone
you know, and delete a bunch of your files at random.

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mike at perusion

Nov 5, 2009, 10:25 AM

Post #12 of 14 (2295 views)
Permalink
Re: Interchange demo: userdb mail_list field cannot be set to empty [In reply to]

Quoting Mike Heins (mike [at] perusion):
> Quoting Peter (peter [at] pajamian):
> > On 11/05/2009 09:46 AM, Mike Heins wrote:
> > > That would depend on your browser. If the thing is sent, it will be honored.
> > > If it isn't, it can't be.
> >
> > It's a bit of a moot point for this discussion, but the HTML4.01
> > specification does state that a checkbox must be checked to be
> > submitted, and that only selected elements of a select are submitted
> > (note that it actually uses the term "successful" and then later states
> > that the form dataset is comprised of successful controls). See
> > <http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#successful-controls>.
>
> Browsers for a long time have followed this. But not all have forever.
>
> >
> > > In any case, if you made a patch to the account page in the main branch,
> > > you need to back it out. It is not valid.
> >
> > Agreed, we need to find a better solution to this issue.
> >
>
> We have been dealing with the basic behavior for many years. You can see
> accommodations to it all over Interchange. The mail list thing, probably due
> to lack of use, was not done right.
>

And actually, it might make sense to add another option:

[.display type="checkbox"
name="mail_list"
extra='title="Global unsubscribe -- if this is selected, no mail will be sent"'
id="mail_list_check"
options="none=Global Unsubscribe"
]

--
Mike Heins
Perusion -- Expert Interchange Consulting http://www.perusion.com/
phone +1.765.328.4479 <mike [at] perusion>

There's nothing sweeter than life nor more precious than time.
-- Barney

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jon at endpoint

Nov 5, 2009, 8:31 PM

Post #13 of 14 (2272 views)
Permalink
Re: Interchange demo: userdb mail_list field cannot be set to empty [In reply to]

FYI, I released 5.7.3 with Ton's commit intact, figuring it isn't a big
enough problem to hold up a developer release. As Peter Ajamian noted on
IRC, it would only affect a new Standard demo install anyway, not an
upgrade.

I presume those who discussed this will come up with a good solution and
commit it soon before 5.7.4 comes out. Right? :)

Thanks,
Jon

--
Jon Jensen
End Point Corporation
http://www.endpoint.com/

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racke at linuxia

Nov 12, 2009, 5:12 AM

Post #14 of 14 (2125 views)
Permalink
Re: Interchange demo: userdb mail_list field cannot be set to empty [In reply to]

Jon Jensen wrote:
> FYI, I released 5.7.3 with Ton's commit intact, figuring it isn't a big
> enough problem to hold up a developer release. As Peter Ajamian noted on
> IRC, it would only affect a new Standard demo install anyway, not an
> upgrade.
>
> I presume those who discussed this will come up with a good solution and
> commit it soon before 5.7.4 comes out. Right? :)
>

What about a fix for this problem, Ton and others?

Regards
Racke



--
LinuXia Systems => http://www.linuxia.de/
Expert Interchange Consulting and System Administration
ICDEVGROUP => http://www.icdevgroup.org/
Interchange Development Team


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