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restoring SmartCard key with off-card copy

 

 

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achim.cloer at cloer

Sep 26, 2011, 2:11 PM

Post #1 of 15 (678 views)
Permalink
restoring SmartCard key with off-card copy

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Dear Users on this list,

we are planing to deploy PGP in our team with Smartcards.
Currently we are testing and learning...
We found the following problem:


During generating the keys, the pgp card is also generating a off-card
copy. But we fail to import this backup into OpenPGP. The error
message is "User-ID is missing". But the User-ID was given during
generating the key. I can not find any documentation how to handle
this off-card-copy. How to import or how to write it back to a card
directly.


Is there anybody who can help me?
Unfortunately I am using PGP with WinXP,
luckily with Thunderbird and Enigmail.
I also tried the command line interface under windows but also without
any success.

Thanks!
Kim
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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achim.cloer at cloer

Sep 27, 2011, 6:49 AM

Post #2 of 15 (664 views)
Permalink
restoring SmartCard key with off-card copy [In reply to]

Dear Users on this list,

we are planing to deploy PGP in our team with Smartcards.
Currently we are testing and learning...
We found the following problem:


During generating the keys, the pgp card is also generating a off-card
copy. But we fail to import this backup into OpenPGP. The error
message is "User-ID is missing". But the User-ID was given during
generating the key. I can not find any documentation how to handle
this off-card-copy. How to import or how to write it back to a card
directly.


Is there anybody who can help me?
Unfortunately I am using PGP with WinXP,
luckily with Thunderbird and Enigmail.
I also tried the command line interface under windows but also without
any success.

Thanks!

Achim

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peter at digitalbrains

Sep 27, 2011, 8:22 AM

Post #3 of 15 (661 views)
Permalink
Re: restoring SmartCard key with off-card copy [In reply to]

On 26/09/11 23:11, Achim Cloer wrote:
> During generating the keys, the pgp card is also generating a off-card copy.
> But we fail to import this backup into OpenPGP.

It's been a while since I played with it, but it worked then. From the man page,
under --edit-key:

bkuptocard file

Restore the given file to a card. This command may be used to restore a
backup key (as generated during card initialization) to a new card. In almost
all cases this will be the encryption key. You should use this command only with
the corresponding public key and make sure that the file given as argument is
indeed the backup to restore. You should then select 2 to restore as encryption
key. You will first be asked to enter the passphrase of the backup key and then
for the Admin PIN of the card.


So you can restore the key to the card using that command, after starting the
following from the command prompt:

gpg --edit-key <yourkey>


And the reason you can't import it as a normal secret key, is that the backup is
purely the RSA secret material instead of the bundle of information referred to
as a secret key in OpenPGP.

Your first message made it to the list, by the way.

Good luck,

Peter.

--
I use the GNU Privacy Guard (GnuPG) in combination with Enigmail.
You can send me encrypted mail if you want some privacy.
My key is available at http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~lebbing/pubkey.txt

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wk at gnupg

Sep 28, 2011, 12:15 AM

Post #4 of 15 (663 views)
Permalink
Re: restoring SmartCard key with off-card copy [In reply to]

On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 23:11, achim.cloer [at] cloer said:

> we are planing to deploy PGP in our team with Smartcards.

I assume you mean GnuPG, which has - like PGP - an implementaion of the
OpenPGP standard.

> During generating the keys, the pgp card is also generating a off-card
> copy. But we fail to import this backup into OpenPGP. The error

...into GPG ;-)

> message is "User-ID is missing". But the User-ID was given during

To restore a key you need to use gpg's edit-key command. That requires
that you pass it a key-id or a user-id. You should give the key-id
which was stored on the card. Note that the public key as well as the
secret-key stub are not stored on the card.

The backup file only contains the parts of the key which will be stored
on the card. After the --edit-key prompt is shown, enter the command
"bkuptocard" and follow the instructions. If you don't have the public
key available, you may give any other key-id to enter the key-edit menu.


Salam-Shalom,

Werner

--
Die Gedanken sind frei. Ausnahmen regelt ein Bundesgesetz.


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achim.cloer at cloer

Sep 28, 2011, 3:09 AM

Post #5 of 15 (658 views)
Permalink
Re: restoring SmartCard key with off-card copy [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Thank you Werner!

Am 28.09.2011 09:15, schrieb Werner Koch:
> The backup file only contains the parts of the key which will be
> stored on the card. After the --edit-key prompt is shown, enter
> the command "bkuptocard" and follow the instructions. If you don't
> have the public key available, you may give any other key-id to
> enter the key-edit menu.

Is there any possibility to import the off-card-backup into a normal
keyring in GPG without using a SmartCard?

Tank You!
Gruß,

Achim
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wk at gnupg

Sep 28, 2011, 6:50 AM

Post #6 of 15 (657 views)
Permalink
Re: restoring SmartCard key with off-card copy [In reply to]

On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 12:09, achim.cloer [at] cloer said:

> Is there any possibility to import the off-card-backup into a normal
> keyring in GPG without using a SmartCard?

There is no feature for it. You may use gpgsplit to manually construct
a key from such a backup. You need to take the keybinding signature etc
from the matching public key. I have not tried, it though. If you look
on the backup file using "gpg --list-packets" wyou will see that it is a
standard secret key packets - but just that packet without any
self-signatures or user-ids.


Shalom-Salam,

Werner

--
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peter at digitalbrains

Sep 28, 2011, 7:54 AM

Post #7 of 15 (658 views)
Permalink
Re: restoring SmartCard key with off-card copy [In reply to]

On 28/09/11 15:50, Werner Koch wrote:
> There is no feature for it. You may use gpgsplit to manually construct
> a key from such a backup. You need to take the keybinding signature etc
> from the matching public key. I have not tried, it though.

I'm fairly sure I tried it and it worked. It's a while ago, so I won't
testify in court on that ;). Just export the "secret key" from GnuPG
(actually with the divert-to-card stub), gpgsplit it, and replace the stub
with that off-card backup.

Peter.

--
I use the GNU Privacy Guard (GnuPG) in combination with Enigmail.
You can send me encrypted mail if you want some privacy.
My key is available at http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~lebbing/pubkey.txt

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faramir.cl at gmail

Oct 4, 2011, 11:15 PM

Post #8 of 15 (630 views)
Permalink
Re: restoring SmartCard key with off-card copy [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

> On 28/09/11 15:50, Werner Koch wrote:
>> There is no feature for it. You may use gpgsplit to manually
>> construct a key from such a backup. You need to take the
>> keybinding signature etc from the matching public key. I have
>> not tried, it though.

Would Paperkey be useful to do that? I guess no, since it encodes
the private key somehow... but maybe tweaking it?

Best Regards
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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peter at digitalbrains

Oct 5, 2011, 2:21 AM

Post #9 of 15 (632 views)
Permalink
Re: restoring SmartCard key with off-card copy [In reply to]

On 05/10/11 08:15, Faramir wrote:
> Would Paperkey be useful to do that? I guess no, since it encodes
> the private key somehow... but maybe tweaking it?

IMHO, if you want to have a backup that also allows you to use the key without
the card, the following procedure is by far the easiest:

- Create a normal RSA key (gpg --gen-key)
- Back it up in a safe place, run it through paperkey, all the usual steps
- From gpg --edit-key, use the keytocard command.

Now you have the key on the card, and the secret key material that was in your
secret keyring is replaced by a stub that points to the smartcard. So the secret
key material is no longer in the keyring.

AFAIK, if you create a smartcard key with backup file, this is pretty much
equivalent: the key is created off-card by GnuPG, and uploaded to the card. Only
when you choose the option to create a smartcard key without backup file will it
get generated on card. I concluded this from reading the OpenPGP Card spec: I
don't see a possibility to generate an on-card key and have the secret key
material for the backup file, so the only possibility I see is that the key is
generated by GnuPG and then uploaded to the card.

Peter.

PS: I accidentally hit the wrong "reply" button and sent this mail only to
Faramir. So this is a copy to the list.

--
I use the GNU Privacy Guard (GnuPG) in combination with Enigmail.
You can send me encrypted mail if you want some privacy.
My key is available at http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~lebbing/pubkey.txt

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laurent.jumet at skynet

Oct 5, 2011, 2:31 AM

Post #10 of 15 (631 views)
Permalink
Re: restoring SmartCard key with off-card copy [In reply to]

Hello Peter !

Peter Lebbing <peter [at] digitalbrains> wrote:

> AFAIK, if you create a smartcard key with backup file, this is pretty much
> equivalent: the key is created off-card by GnuPG, and uploaded to the card.
> Only when you choose the option to create a smartcard key without backup
> file will it get generated on card. I concluded this from reading the
> OpenPGP Card spec: I don't see a possibility to generate an on-card key and
> have the secret key material for the backup file, so the only possibility I
> see is that the key is generated by GnuPG and then uploaded to the card.

In my opinion, a key-to-card key should *never* have an existent backup.
Purpose of cards is "one man"/"one card", as the card is supposed to identify the man for all purposes. If a backup exists somewhere, that means that *another card* could be emitted, and *another man" than you is walking somewhere and acting exactly as he was you...
This is a very high risk.

--
Laurent Jumet
KeyID: 0xCFAF704C

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rjh at sixdemonbag

Oct 5, 2011, 4:17 AM

Post #11 of 15 (632 views)
Permalink
Re: restoring SmartCard key with off-card copy [In reply to]

On 10/5/2011 5:31 AM, Laurent Jumet wrote:
> In my opinion, a key-to-card key should *never* have an existent
> backup.

"Never" is one of those words that's best used sparingly.

> Purpose of cards is "one man"/"one card", as the card is
> supposed to identify the man for all purposes.

This is one particular purpose of cards. It is not the sole purpose.

In my daily work I walk from one lab to another to another. Some of
these labs have trusted hardware on trusted networks. Others have
untrusted hardware connected to untrusted networks. On the trusted
networks I want my certificate there on disk, because it's more
convenient to do that than to keep reaching for my wallet every time I
need to sign something. On the untrusted network I want my certificate
on a card, because I don't want the secret part of my certificate to
ever touch that hardware.

There are many other use cases similar to this in which it makes good
sense to have certificates on hard drives as well as certificates on
cards. I'm sure that if you think about it for a while you'll come up
with several other reasonable scenarios.

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peter at digitalbrains

Oct 5, 2011, 4:35 AM

Post #12 of 15 (633 views)
Permalink
Re: restoring SmartCard key with off-card copy [In reply to]

On 05/10/11 13:17, Robert J. Hansen wrote:
> On 10/5/2011 5:31 AM, Laurent Jumet wrote:
>> In my opinion, a key-to-card key should *never* have an existent
>> backup.
>
> There are many other use cases similar to this in which it makes good
> sense to have certificates on hard drives as well as certificates on
> cards. I'm sure that if you think about it for a while you'll come up
> with several other reasonable scenarios.

Apart from hard drives there's the backup in a safe.

And what about encrypted data? If your card fails, you have then simply lost all
data. The only options are backups, a second card, or multiple recipients of the
encrypted data. All are variations of a theme (multiple somethings) that do not
satisfy Laurent's "one man"/"one card".

So if the loss of all your encrypted data is an acceptable risk, then you can do
the "one card" thing. Otherwise, you'll have to compromise somewhere else.

Peter.

--
I use the GNU Privacy Guard (GnuPG) in combination with Enigmail.
You can send me encrypted mail if you want some privacy.
My key is available at http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~lebbing/pubkey.txt

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achim.cloer at cloer

Oct 6, 2011, 7:24 AM

Post #13 of 15 (627 views)
Permalink
Re: restoring SmartCard key with off-card copy [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Dear all,
dear Peter,

> Restore the given file to a card. This command may be used to
> restore a backup key (as generated during card initialization) to a
> new card. In almost all cases this will be the encryption key. You
> should use this command only with the corresponding public key and
> make sure that the file given as argument is indeed the backup to
> restore. You should then select 2 to restore as encryption key. You
> will first be asked to enter the passphrase of the backup key and
> then for the Admin PIN of the card.

It seems that the backup file only contains one key: This was on my
original Card the encryption key. But this is shown as encryption
_and_ signature key and has a different Key-ID than the one I published.
The Authentication Key is empty.

I succeeded to write back this encryption key to the card. But PGP is
writing the same key to two positions in the card. So now I have a
Card with the same key in "encryption" and "signature".

But I still can't use the Card: After Importing the backup key, my gpg
is still asking for my old SmartCard. How can I tell GPG to use the
new smart card? It seems to be necessary to modify the sec-key on the
computer. But how. I can't find any documentation...


Sorry, but I really don't understand what to dot. How can I restore a
Card so that I can use it as my original card before.
If there is now HowTo, I promise to write one, once I found out how it
works...


Danke!
Gruß,

Achim
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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peter at digitalbrains

Oct 6, 2011, 8:40 AM

Post #14 of 15 (637 views)
Permalink
Re: restoring SmartCard key with off-card copy [In reply to]

> I succeeded to write back this encryption key to the card. But PGP is
> writing the same key to two positions in the card. So now I have a
> Card with the same key in "encryption" and "signature".

A bit odd. I hope it will not give problems. My suggestion: let the card
generate a new signature key (you don't need to use it if you don't want to).
Apart from that GnuPG might get confused by the key being used in two positions,
there are security reasons why we use different signature and encryption keys,
instead of one key for both. Might open you up to some subtle attack, if your
attacker knows what he's doing. Probably unlikely, but better safe than sorry.

Oh, by the way, it's GnuPG, not PGP. PGP is a commercial product supporting the
OpenPGP standard. GnuPG is the libre software you're using with your OpenPGP
smartcard.

> But I still can't use the Card: After Importing the backup key, my gpg
> is still asking for my old SmartCard. How can I tell GPG to use the
> new smart card? It seems to be necessary to modify the sec-key on the
> computer. But how. I can't find any documentation...

This is the easy part.

Your "secret key" as stored on your PC simply says: use *this specific*
smartcard for that key. So GnuPG will ask for that specific smartcard, even
though your new card has the key.

Solution: delete the secret key. Watch out you don't throw out any real keys,
though. And don't delete the public key.

When GnuPG has the public key, and you insert the new smartcard with the secret
key, GnuPG will automatically recreate the "secret key" part that then says: use
*this specific* smartcard for that key. Best thing is to do
gpg --card-status
after you insert the smart card for the first time, this will then immediately
cause GnuPG to "bind" to the smart card.

Once again: watch out you don't accidentally throw out real secret keys!

> Sorry, but I really don't understand what to dot. How can I restore a
> Card so that I can use it as my original card before.

No need to appologise. This list /is/ for asking questions. And it's a good
question, at that.

> If there is now HowTo, I promise to write one, once I found out how it
> works...

Wouldn't know if this is covered in manuals or howto's...

I learned a lot from playing around, and following this list.

Peter.

--
I use the GNU Privacy Guard (GnuPG) in combination with Enigmail.
You can send me encrypted mail if you want some privacy.
My key is available at http://wwwhome.cs.utwente.nl/~lebbing/pubkey.txt

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faramir.cl at gmail

Oct 6, 2011, 9:56 PM

Post #15 of 15 (607 views)
Permalink
Re: restoring SmartCard key with off-card copy [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

El 05-10-2011 6:21, Peter Lebbing escribió:
> On 05/10/11 08:15, Faramir wrote:
>> Would Paperkey be useful to do that? I guess no, since it
>> encodes the private key somehow... but maybe tweaking it?
>
> IMHO, if you want to have a backup that also allows you to use the
> key without the card, the following procedure is by far the
> easiest:
>
> - Create a normal RSA key (gpg --gen-key) - Back it up in a safe
> place, run it through paperkey, all the usual steps - From gpg
> --edit-key, use the keytocard command.

Ok, but I was thinking about the already existing card backup is
the secret key without information already available from public key.
And Paperkey removes that redundant information when it creates the
backup, and restore it when using the backup. So maybe it could be
adapted to combine the card backup too. Just a thought.

Best Regards

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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