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Is it safe to put an encrypted file on a public web server

 

 

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mortenkjarulff at gmail

Nov 11, 2009, 4:13 AM

Post #1 of 8 (1101 views)
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Is it safe to put an encrypted file on a public web server

Hi,

I am new here, so sorry if I ask stupid questions.

I would like to use my unused storage on various web servers for
backup of my personal data, including the file with all my passwords.

Q1) Assume that I make a good passphrase, would it then be safe to
encrypt my backup with "gpg --symmetric ...", and put the backup where
anyone can get it?

man page for --symmetric say: "... The default symmetric cipher
used is CAST5, but may be chosen with the --cipher-algo option.
...". "gpg --version" says:

Home: ~/.gnupg
Supported algorithms:
Pubkey: RSA, RSA-E, RSA-S, ELG-E, DSA
Cipher: 3DES, CAST5, BLOWFISH, AES, AES192, AES256, TWOFISH
Hash: MD5, SHA1, RIPEMD160, SHA256, SHA384, SHA512, SHA224
Compression: Uncompressed, ZIP, ZLIB, BZIP2

Q2) Why would I use another cipher?

Q3) Are some ciphers stronger than others? If so, which is the best
for my purpose? (is it purpose dependent which is best?)

Cheers,
Morten

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dshaw at jabberwocky

Nov 11, 2009, 6:01 AM

Post #2 of 8 (1045 views)
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Re: Is it safe to put an encrypted file on a public web server [In reply to]

On Nov 11, 2009, at 7:13 AM, Morten Kjærulff wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am new here, so sorry if I ask stupid questions.
>
> I would like to use my unused storage on various web servers for
> backup of my personal data, including the file with all my passwords.
>
> Q1) Assume that I make a good passphrase, would it then be safe to
> encrypt my backup with "gpg --symmetric ...", and put the backup where
> anyone can get it?

Yes, it is safe, but keep in mind that this rests the complete
protection of the data on the passphrase (i.e. it had better be a good
one, since an attacker can download your encrypted backup and spend
all the time they like trying to find the passphrase). Generally,
people don't put their encrypted files in a public place. This aids
in protecting the data since if the attacker can't get the file at
all, they can't even try to attack the passphrase. It's a defense in
depth.

So basically safe, but perhaps inadvisable.

> man page for --symmetric say: "... The default symmetric cipher
> used is CAST5, but may be chosen with the --cipher-algo option.
> ...". "gpg --version" says:
>
> Home: ~/.gnupg
> Supported algorithms:
> Pubkey: RSA, RSA-E, RSA-S, ELG-E, DSA
> Cipher: 3DES, CAST5, BLOWFISH, AES, AES192, AES256, TWOFISH
> Hash: MD5, SHA1, RIPEMD160, SHA256, SHA384, SHA512, SHA224
> Compression: Uncompressed, ZIP, ZLIB, BZIP2
>
> Q2) Why would I use another cipher?

Personal taste, local business or other policy, legal requirements
(some industries in some countries have to use particular ciphers), etc.

> Q3) Are some ciphers stronger than others? If so, which is the best
> for my purpose? (is it purpose dependent which is best?)

Yes, some are stronger than others, but it's hard to say which is best
without knowing exactly what you want. For example, 3DES is the
oldest (and by far the slowest) cipher in GPG's list, but if you want
the cipher that has withstood attack for the longest period of time,
that's your choice. If you want the one that has had the most recent
study, that's probably AES. If you want to be compatible with really
old versions of PGP (not GPG), you want IDEA (not in your list
above). And so on.

AES256 is probably the best all-round choice in GPG if you want to
just say "strongest" and leave it at that (it is also the default
cipher for new keys), but note that unless your situation is unusual,
any of the ciphers in GPG is likely stronger than they need to be.

David


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gerry.lowry at abilitybusinesscomputerservices

Nov 11, 2009, 6:23 AM

Post #3 of 8 (1048 views)
Permalink
Re: Is it safe to put an encrypted file on a public web server [In reply to]

(a) assume nothing is safe

(b) assume that if your information is not valuable to national security agencies or organized crime, it is in less danger of
probing and poking.

(c) if someone takes your car, it is likely obvious; if someone copies your data, you may never know

(d) if someone copies your data and then deletes it and holds the copied data for ransom, you are scr**d if you do not have local
backup.

(e) shared host ISPs may not back up your data, if their server hard disk(s) fail, you may be scr**d if you do not have local
backup.

(f) decryption may fail ... so encrypt only those files you want to hide from prying eyes.

(g) decompression may fail ... so compress only those files for which you have local backup.

(h) one of my mantra's: you can NEVER have TOO MUCH backup.


Regards,
Gerry (Lowry)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Never miss an appointment ~~ apprem.com ~~ https://www.apprem.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gerry Lowry, Principal
Ability Business Computer Services ~~ Because it's your Business, our Experience Counts!
68 John W. Taylor Avenue
Alliston · Ontario · Canada · L9R 0E1 · 705.250.0112
gerry.lowry [at] abilitybusinesscomputerservices http://abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com


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mephisto at fastmail

Nov 11, 2009, 7:49 AM

Post #4 of 8 (1048 views)
Permalink
Re: Is it safe to put an encrypted file on a public web server [In reply to]

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 09:01:09AM -0500
Also sprach David Shaw:
> AES256 is probably the best all-round choice in GPG if you want to
> just say "strongest" and leave it at that

AES 192 or AES 128 may actually be a more secure choice than AES 256,
until they work out the following:

http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0908.html#8

That having been said, unless a major corporation or intelligence agency
is interested in your data, the relative "strength" of one of these
ciphers over another are mostly academic. Almost nobody would bother
trying to use sophisticated cryptanalytic attacks, because there are so
many avenues of attack that are much easier, cheaper, and still very
effective.

E.G. is your computer physically guarded 24/7? If not, how do you know
someone hasn't put a keylogger on it? Hey--it's easier than a related-
key attack with 2^117 complexity.

-Kevin

--
"Le hasard favorise l'esprit préparé."
--Louis Pasteur

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dion at thinkmoult

Nov 11, 2009, 8:00 AM

Post #5 of 8 (1048 views)
Permalink
Re: Is it safe to put an encrypted file on a public web server [In reply to]

Hello,

I would recommend putting it below the document root of the webserver for
added security - you really don't want crawlers easily discovering it.

On Wednesday 11 November 2009 20:13:33 Morten Kjærulff wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am new here, so sorry if I ask stupid questions.
>
> I would like to use my unused storage on various web servers for
> backup of my personal data, including the file with all my passwords.
>
> Q1) Assume that I make a good passphrase, would it then be safe to
> encrypt my backup with "gpg --symmetric ...", and put the backup where
> anyone can get it?
>
> man page for --symmetric say: "... The default symmetric cipher
> used is CAST5, but may be chosen with the --cipher-algo option.
> ...". "gpg --version" says:
>
> Home: ~/.gnupg
> Supported algorithms:
> Pubkey: RSA, RSA-E, RSA-S, ELG-E, DSA
> Cipher: 3DES, CAST5, BLOWFISH, AES, AES192, AES256, TWOFISH
> Hash: MD5, SHA1, RIPEMD160, SHA256, SHA384, SHA512, SHA224
> Compression: Uncompressed, ZIP, ZLIB, BZIP2
>
> Q2) Why would I use another cipher?
>
> Q3) Are some ciphers stronger than others? If so, which is the best
> for my purpose? (is it purpose dependent which is best?)
>
> Cheers,
> Morten
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gnupg-users mailing list
> Gnupg-users [at] gnupg
> http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
>

--
Dion Moult :-)
Attachments: signature.asc (0.19 KB)


dshaw at jabberwocky

Nov 11, 2009, 10:48 AM

Post #6 of 8 (1041 views)
Permalink
Re: Is it safe to put an encrypted file on a public web server [In reply to]

On Nov 11, 2009, at 10:49 AM, Kevin Kammer wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 09:01:09AM -0500
> Also sprach David Shaw:
>> AES256 is probably the best all-round choice in GPG if you want to
>> just say "strongest" and leave it at that
>
> AES 192 or AES 128 may actually be a more secure choice than AES 256,
> until they work out the following:
>
> http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0908.html#8

Yes, but.

http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-users/2009-August/037107.html

David


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mortenkjarulff at gmail

Nov 12, 2009, 6:39 AM

Post #7 of 8 (1031 views)
Permalink
Re: Is it safe to put an encrypted file on a public web server [In reply to]

Thanks. I get the point - for me, any minimal encryption would be
enough, as nobody cares about my photos of my famely.


On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Kevin Kammer <mephisto [at] fastmail> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 09:01:09AM -0500
> Also sprach David Shaw:
>> AES256 is probably the best all-round choice in GPG if you want to
>> just say "strongest" and leave it at that
>
> AES 192 or AES 128 may actually be a more secure choice than AES 256,
> until they work out the following:
>
> http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0908.html#8
>
> That having been said, unless a major corporation or intelligence agency
> is interested in your data, the relative "strength" of one of these
> ciphers over another are mostly academic. Almost nobody would bother
> trying to use sophisticated cryptanalytic attacks, because there are so
> many avenues of attack that are much easier, cheaper, and still very
> effective.
>
> E.G. is your computer physically guarded 24/7? If not, how do you know
> someone hasn't put a keylogger on it? Hey--it's easier than a related-
> key attack with 2^117 complexity.
>
> -Kevin
>
> --
> "Le hasard favorise l'esprit préparé."
>                      --Louis Pasteur
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gnupg-users mailing list
> Gnupg-users [at] gnupg
> http://lists.gnupg.org/mailman/listinfo/gnupg-users
>

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faramir.cl at gmail

Nov 12, 2009, 10:26 AM

Post #8 of 8 (1029 views)
Permalink
Re: Is it safe to put an encrypted file on a public web server [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Morten Kjærulff escribió:
> Thanks. I get the point - for me, any minimal encryption would be
> enough, as nobody cares about my photos of my famely.

Then probably you want to use AES, it is supposed to be the fastest
algorithm, and very secure.

Best Regards
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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