Mailing List Archive: Gentoo: Dev

Stability of /sys api

1 2

View All

Index | Next | Previous | View Threaded

waltdnes at waltdnes

May 15, 2012, 4:51 PM

Post #26 of 32 (98 views)
Permalink

Re: Stability of /sys api [In reply to]

On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 12:44:59AM +0200, Stelian Ionescu wrote
> On Tue, 2012-05-15 at 18:38 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
> > On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 11:26:03AM -0700, Greg KH wrote
> > > What specifically is your objection to udev today? Is it doing things
> > > you don't like? Too big? Something else?
> >
> > Today, it requires an initramfs if /usr is not physically on /. That
> > is due in large part to the fact that it has been rolled into the
> > systemd tarball, and inherited some of systemd's code and limitations,
> > despite the fact that udev is still a separate binary.
>
> This is absolutely and definitely false. Where did you hear such
> nonsense ?

1) Did you sleep through the /usr and initramfs flamewars?
http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken

2) The udev sources have merged into the systemd tarball. See...
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.hotplug.devel/17392 And note
the date is April 3rd, not April 1st. If they were really as worried
about compatability as they claim, you wouldn't need to use initramfs
for udev with a separate /usr.

--
Walter Dnes <waltdnes [at] waltdnes>

waltdnes at waltdnes

May 15, 2012, 4:54 PM

Post #27 of 32 (99 views)
Permalink

Re: Stability of /sys api [In reply to]

I asked what I thought was a simple developer-type question. I don't
want this to become a public flamewar. If anybody wants to discuss the
issue with me further, please email directly to me and not the list.

--
Walter Dnes <waltdnes [at] waltdnes>

williamh at gentoo

May 15, 2012, 6:09 PM

Post #28 of 32 (98 views)
Permalink

Re: Stability of /sys api [In reply to]

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 07:51:03PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 12:44:59AM +0200, Stelian Ionescu wrote
> > On Tue, 2012-05-15 at 18:38 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
> > > On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 11:26:03AM -0700, Greg KH wrote
> > > > What specifically is your objection to udev today? Is it doing things
> > > > you don't like? Too big? Something else?
> > >
> > > Today, it requires an initramfs if /usr is not physically on /. That
> > > is due in large part to the fact that it has been rolled into the
> > > systemd tarball, and inherited some of systemd's code and limitations,
> > > despite the fact that udev is still a separate binary.
> >
> > This is absolutely and definitely false. Where did you hear such
> > nonsense ?
>
> 1) Did you sleep through the /usr and initramfs flamewars?
> http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken
>
> 2) The udev sources have merged into the systemd tarball. See...
> http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.hotplug.devel/17392 And note
> the date is April 3rd, not April 1st. If they were really as worried
> about compatability as they claim, you wouldn't need to use initramfs

If you saw my last message on this subject, there is no need to use
initramfs if you don't want to use it.

See the sep-usr use flag on the ~arch version of busybox and the
instructions you get when you turn that on.

William

ford_prefect at gentoo

May 15, 2012, 9:07 PM

Post #29 of 32 (98 views)
Permalink

Re: Stability of /sys api [In reply to]

On 16 May 2012 05:21, Walter Dnes <waltdnes [at] waltdnes> wrote:
> On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 12:44:59AM +0200, Stelian Ionescu wrote
>> On Tue, 2012-05-15 at 18:38 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
>> > On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 11:26:03AM -0700, Greg KH wrote
>> > > What specifically is your objection to udev today? �Is it doing things
>> > > you don't like? �Too big? �Something else?
>> >
>> > � Today, it requires an initramfs if /usr is not physically on /. �That
>> > is due in large part to the fact that it has been rolled into the
>> > systemd tarball, and inherited some of systemd's code and limitations,
>> > despite the fact that udev is still a separate binary.
>>
>> This is absolutely and definitely false. Where did you hear such
>> nonsense ?
>
> �1) Did you sleep through the /usr and initramfs flamewars?
> http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken

You seem to have missed the bit that this has nothing at all to do with systemd.

--
Arun Raghavan
http://arunraghavan.net/
(Ford_Prefect | Gentoo) & (arunsr | GNOME)

lu_zero at gentoo

May 15, 2012, 9:17 PM

Post #30 of 32 (100 views)
Permalink

Re: Stability of /sys api [In reply to]

On 15/05/12 21:07, Arun Raghavan wrote:
>> 1) Did you sleep through the /usr and initramfs flamewars?
>> http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken
>
> You seem to have missed the bit that this has nothing at all to do with systemd.
>

I guess the systemd in the url might be have people consider it a sort
of tell-tale. It could had been

http://bluez.org/known_issue/separate-usr-problems

Maybe.

--

Luca Barbato
Gentoo/linux
http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero

slong at rathaus

May 16, 2012, 10:48 PM

Post #31 of 32 (97 views)
Permalink

Re: Stability of /sys api [In reply to]

William Hubbs wrote:
> I'm wondering the same thing since once busybox 1.20.0 hits stable you
> will be able to have a separate /usr without an initramfs quite easily
> if that's what you want to do.
>
> When you emerge this version of busybox with the "sep-usr" use flag, you
> get a binary in / called ginit. Now just follow the instructions you got
> when you emerged it.
>
Thing is it runs before the real init[1] so if we are using a separate /usr
partition on LVM, will it still work? I'd have thought not, since we need
the device-mapper service and there's /etc/lvm.conf to consider, but I'll
gladly be told different.

(/usr on lvm was the example given in the Council discussion, and has been
mentioned in docs, but I'd imagine same applies to /usr on mdadm, if not
auto-detected.)

[1] http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/gentoo/dev/252734
--
#friendly-coders -- We're friendly, but we're not /that/ friendly ;-)

williamh at gentoo

May 18, 2012, 11:36 AM

Post #32 of 32 (97 views)
Permalink

Re: Re: Stability of /sys api [In reply to]

Hi Steven,

On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 06:48:33AM +0100, Steven J Long wrote:
> Thing is it runs before the real init[1] so if we are using a separate /usr
> partition on LVM, will it still work? I'd have thought not, since we need
> the device-mapper service and there's /etc/lvm.conf to consider, but I'll
> gladly be told different.

No, you are correct about this. This does not work if you have /usr on
lvm, mdadm, or encrypted. The same applies to /. That is the situation
where you would need an initramfs.

I'm curious, have you seen our initramfs guide yet [1]? Making and using
an initramfs seems to be pretty well documented these days.

William

[1] http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/initramfs-guide.xml

1 2

View All

Index | Next | Previous | View Threaded

Interested in having your list archived? Contact Gossamer Threads