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FAT tools, where ?

 

 

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1i5t5.duncan at cox

Dec 4, 2009, 12:52 PM

Post #26 of 30 (888 views)
Permalink
Re: FAT tools, where ? [In reply to]

Lie Ryan posted on Sat, 05 Dec 2009 06:17:42 +1100 as excerpted:

> The 8G is small compared to the external's size (120G)

I think I mentioned it, but I still find it amazing... Fry's Electronics
recently had a USB 1 TB external for $80. I snagged one. I'm not
bragging, as after tax, that's about what they're going for on
pricewatch.com (no tax but with shipping) now days as well; I'm just
still so amazed that prices have come down that far. A TB disk for $80.
It's just... weird!

Meanwhile, 120 gig... is almost USB thumbdrive size now. When you said
"small" 8 gig partition, I was thinking relative to a half terabyte
drive, at least, and with TB drives at $80 (which I still find almost
unbelievable), half TB would be models from a year or two ago. 8/120ths
might be small, but it doesn't look so small when someone's thinking
8/500ths or 8/1000ths on the one hand, and has just done the GPT
repartition I mentioned and felt incredibly foolish sticking a measly
1 MiB partition (the BIOS boot partition) on that 1 TB (931 GiB) drive!

Let's see... 1 MiB of 931 GiB... 1/953,344th (actually less, I think it
was actually 931.5 GiB or so, I could fit nearly 500 of those 1 MiB
partitions in the rounding error!) of the drive. That'd be roughly
comparable to a partition of a byte and a half (three nibbles, 12 bits)
on a 1.44 MB floppy! (Tho talk about rounding error!) No wonder I felt a
bit foolish! =:^)

I guess "small" is relative, and definitely in the eyes of the beholder,
isn't it?

... I still can't get over terabyte drives, for $80... I think I'm
beginning to appreciate how my grandparents must have felt, seeing the
car overtake the horse and buggy! I've known I was officially an "Old
Fart" since the day I was enthusiastically talking about a particular
album of a particular band (Styx, Killroy was Here, FWIW)... and suddenly
realized that I wasn't sure which was here first, the guy I was talking
to, or the album, as he was about old enough to have been /born/ that
year! But still, a terabyte for under $100 with enough left over to stop
for dinner on the way home... incredible! Talking about a terabyte still
seems like it should be like talking about a million dollars, yeah, the
figure exists, but it's something CEOs and governments use in their
everyday conversation, not something I'm likely to ever see... but now
that terabyte is under $100 with change left for dinner!

--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman


frank.peters at comcast

Dec 4, 2009, 1:12 PM

Post #27 of 30 (887 views)
Permalink
Re: Re: FAT tools, where ? [In reply to]

On Sat, 05 Dec 2009 06:17:42 +1100
Lie Ryan <lie.1296 [at] gmail> wrote:

>
> Booting was one of my least concern (it's a portable external harddisk,
> I don't need an OS in there), I use the FAT partition to store NTFS
> drivers (source and precompiled) for systems that don't already have
> NTFS-3G installed and where internet is scarce or compiler is
> unavailable (e.g. Gentoo LiveCD or Macs) since the rest of my external
> harddisk is formatted as NTFS.
>

That's the beauty of Open Source. Commercial development would have
killed off FAT because of its low popularity, but Open Source maintains
FAT capability because it is something that *should* be available, if
only to allow some small group to tinker with ancient systems.

Hopefully Gentoo will continue this philosophy of keeping things
alive whether or not they represent the mainstream. I sometimes
prefer to use older tools. For example, I still use Lilo to boot
my machines. Fortunately Lilo is still a part of the portage tree
and, IMO, should not be removed simply because Grub is more popular.

Once Open Source, and Gentoo, begins to cater exclusively to the
latest software fashions, it will, again IMO, no longer be worth
using.

Frank Peters


chemoelectric at chemoelectric

Dec 4, 2009, 2:26 PM

Post #28 of 30 (890 views)
Permalink
Re: Re: FAT tools, where ? [In reply to]

Frank Peters <frank.peters [at] comcast> write:
> That's the beauty of Open Source. Commercial development would have
> killed off FAT because of its low popularity, but Open Source maintains
> FAT capability because it is something that *should* be available, if
> only to allow some small group to tinker with ancient systems.

Nah, Microsoft kept and would have kept FAT, not to mention
COMMAND.COM. IBM systems, traditionally, kept vestiges of stuff from
the Pleistocene, all of it carefully documented.


lie.1296 at gmail

Dec 4, 2009, 2:46 PM

Post #29 of 30 (882 views)
Permalink
Re: Re: FAT tools, where ? [In reply to]

On 12/5/2009 7:52 AM, Duncan wrote:
> Lie Ryan posted on Sat, 05 Dec 2009 06:17:42 +1100 as excerpted:
>
>> The 8G is small compared to the external's size (120G)
>
> I think I mentioned it, but I still find it amazing... Fry's Electronics
> recently had a USB 1 TB external for $80. I snagged one. I'm not
> bragging, as after tax, that's about what they're going for on
> pricewatch.com (no tax but with shipping) now days as well; I'm just
> still so amazed that prices have come down that far. A TB disk for $80.
> It's just... weird!

If you mean this guy:
http://www.frys.com/product/5832713;jsessionid=IEhzBaKBRCPLT6YdVM4dqw**.node2?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

it wouldn't fit into my pocket, wouldn't it?

> Meanwhile, 120 gig... is almost USB thumbdrive size now. When you said
> "small" 8 gig partition, I was thinking relative to a half terabyte
> drive,

A quarter terrabytes (250GB). This is not the first time I messed up
when stating my external's size. Still small, but better at least. The
120 GB is my laptop's (which are quite a few years old now).

at least, and with TB drives at $80 (which I still find almost
> unbelievable), half TB would be models from a year or two ago. 8/120ths
> might be small, but it doesn't look so small when someone's thinking
> 8/500ths or 8/1000ths on the one hand, and has just done the GPT
> repartition I mentioned and felt incredibly foolish sticking a measly
> 1 MiB partition (the BIOS boot partition) on that 1 TB (931 GiB) drive!

But I felt even more foolish to have to reboot to the the OS in my
harddisk just to copy a 50kB file to my NTFS partition because my
friend's Macbook cannot write to NTFS. GPT only helps to boot, it
doesn't make a Macbook read from NTFS partition or a Gentoo LiveCD write
to NTFS.


1i5t5.duncan at cox

Dec 4, 2009, 8:35 PM

Post #30 of 30 (886 views)
Permalink
Re: FAT tools, where ? [In reply to]

Lie Ryan posted on Sat, 05 Dec 2009 09:46:30 +1100 as excerpted:

> But I felt even more foolish to have to reboot to the the OS in my
> harddisk just to copy a 50kB file to my NTFS partition because my
> friend's Macbook cannot write to NTFS. GPT only helps to boot, it
> doesn't make a Macbook read from NTFS partition or a Gentoo LiveCD write
> to NTFS.

True...

--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman

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