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is my ISP lying or stupid?

 

 

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jerryde at mc

Mar 16, 2012, 9:30 AM

Post #1 of 18 (1101 views)
Permalink
is my ISP lying or stupid?

They had a DoS of mail, www and shell. They state a switch went out. who runs mail, www and shell on the same switch?

(This might be a trick question, think it thru...)

bma


julius.kivimaki at gmail

Mar 16, 2012, 9:32 AM

Post #2 of 18 (1089 views)
Permalink
Re: is my ISP lying or stupid? [In reply to]

Someone who likes all the three things being compromised at the same time.

16. maaliskuuta 2012 18.30 Jerry dePriest <jerryde [at] mc> kirjoitti:

> **
> They had a DoS of mail, www and shell. They state a switch went out. who
> runs mail, www and shell on the same switch?
>
> (This might be a trick question, think it thru...)
>
> bma
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>


therancor at gmail

Mar 16, 2012, 11:04 AM

Post #3 of 18 (1096 views)
Permalink
Re: is my ISP lying or stupid? [In reply to]

It makes no sense unless it was a layer 3 switch. The firewalls or routers
should be the first network hardware to go on their knees before a switch
but... who knows what hardware they are running anyway
Den 16 mar 2012 17:31 skrev "Jerry dePriest" <jerryde [at] mc>:

> **
> They had a DoS of mail, www and shell. They state a switch went out. who
> runs mail, www and shell on the same switch?
>
> (This might be a trick question, think it thru...)
>
> bma
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>


iryshman at gmail

Mar 16, 2012, 12:11 PM

Post #4 of 18 (1044 views)
Permalink
Re: is my ISP lying or stupid? [In reply to]

Your ISP probably has their users are on different networks than their
servers. Sounds like maybe they meant the switch you are on, not the
servers switch. Need to troubleshoot, use a smart phone or some other OOB
capable device to test access to the ISP servers. If you can access OOB,
then maybe they aren't lying. Just a guess, you didnt provide much detail.

On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Jerry dePriest <jerryde [at] mc> wrote:

> **
> They had a DoS of mail, www and shell. They state a switch went out. who
> runs mail, www and shell on the same switch?
>
> (This might be a trick question, think it thru...)
>
> bma
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>


nick at virus-l

Mar 16, 2012, 1:49 PM

Post #5 of 18 (1076 views)
Permalink
Re: is my ISP lying or stupid? [In reply to]

And your reason for not considering "both" at all likely, is?




Regards,

Nick FitzGerald


_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/


james at zero-internet

Mar 16, 2012, 2:18 PM

Post #6 of 18 (1084 views)
Permalink
Re: is my ISP lying or stupid? [In reply to]

Chances are a datacenter monkey pulled a power cable out, or they meant router and didn't want to confuse you.

Worked for a couple of ISPs, they all send the same emails out when something breaks.

Shouldn't worry about it. Also wouldn't get all higher-than-thou/ "who are these noobs".

Just get on with your life and admit they're lying to you and couldn't give a fuck whether you know it or not.

Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

-----Original Message-----
From: rancor <therancor [at] gmail>
Sender: full-disclosure-bounces [at] lists
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 19:04:17
To: Jerry dePriest<jerryde [at] mc>
Cc: <full-disclosure [at] lists>
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] is my ISP lying or stupid?

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/


Valdis.Kletnieks at vt

Mar 16, 2012, 3:01 PM

Post #7 of 18 (1080 views)
Permalink
Re: is my ISP lying or stupid? [In reply to]

On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 21:18:36 -0000, James Condron said:
> Just get on with your life and admit they're lying to you and couldn't give
> a fuck whether you know it or not.

Something to keep in mind is that big customers call their provider of bit-pipe
a "carrier". If you call it an ISP, you're almost by definition a small fish.
And the profit margin on small fish is pretty low - even at the pay scales for
call centers outsourced to Bangalore or Nairobi, a *single* support call from a
small-fish subscriber can easily wipe out the ISP's profit for that customer
for the year if it drags on too long or escalates to an engineer that has a
clue. That's why they'll do almost anything to get rid of you whe you call...


ptinstructor at gmail

Mar 16, 2012, 11:45 PM

Post #8 of 18 (1076 views)
Permalink
Re: is my ISP lying or stupid? [In reply to]

Meanwhile in related news:

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/03/aghast-at-avasts-iyogi-support/

And

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/03/avast-antivirus-drops-iyogi-support/

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/


peter at allicient

Mar 17, 2012, 8:27 AM

Post #9 of 18 (1072 views)
Permalink
Re: is my ISP lying or stupid? [In reply to]

What makes you think those services would be split onto separate switches
(which would be rather odd actually)?


On 16 March 2012 16:30, Jerry dePriest <jerryde [at] mc> wrote:

> They had a DoS of mail, www and shell. They state a switch went out. who
> runs mail, www and shell on the same switch?
>
> (This might be a trick question, think it thru...)
>
> bma
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>


thor at hammerofgod

Mar 17, 2012, 10:56 AM

Post #10 of 18 (1070 views)
Permalink
Re: is my ISP lying or stupid? [In reply to]

Exactly.
t

From: full-disclosure-bounces [at] lists [mailto:full-disclosure-bounces [at] lists] On Behalf Of Peter Maxwell
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 8:28 AM
To: full-disclosure [at] lists
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] is my ISP lying or stupid?


What makes you think those services would be split onto separate switches (which would be rather odd actually)?


On 16 March 2012 16:30, Jerry dePriest <jerryde [at] mc<mailto:jerryde [at] mc>> wrote:
They had a DoS of mail, www and shell. They state a switch went out. who runs mail, www and shell on the same switch?

(This might be a trick question, think it thru...)

bma

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/


peter at allicient

Mar 18, 2012, 5:49 AM

Post #11 of 18 (1039 views)
Permalink
Re: is my ISP lying or stupid? [In reply to]

Unlikely, usually these switches are quite large and when a user has OOB it
usually means console access to the server, i.e. nothing to do with network
topology.

If they are like most ISPs/carriers, the only thing that will be on a
separate switch is their management network(s).


On 16 March 2012 19:11, Dave <iryshman [at] gmail> wrote:

> Your ISP probably has their users are on different networks than their
> servers. Sounds like maybe they meant the switch you are on, not the
> servers switch. Need to troubleshoot, use a smart phone or some other OOB
> capable device to test access to the ISP servers. If you can access OOB,
> then maybe they aren't lying. Just a guess, you didnt provide much detail.
>
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Jerry dePriest <jerryde [at] mc> wrote:
>
>> They had a DoS of mail, www and shell. They state a switch went out.
>> who runs mail, www and shell on the same switch?
>>
>> (This might be a trick question, think it thru...)
>>
>> bma
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>


Valdis.Kletnieks at vt

Mar 18, 2012, 8:47 AM

Post #12 of 18 (1042 views)
Permalink
Re: is my ISP lying or stupid? [In reply to]

On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 12:49:49 -0000, Peter Maxwell said:
> On 16 March 2012 19:11, Dave <iryshman [at] gmail> wrote:
> > Your ISP probably has their users are on different networks than their
> > servers. Sounds like maybe they meant the switch you are on, not the
> > servers switch. Need to troubleshoot, use a smart phone or some other OOB
> > capable device to test access to the ISP servers. If you can access OOB,
> > then maybe they aren't lying. Just a guess, you didnt provide much detail.

> Unlikely, usually these switches are quite large and when a user has OOB it
> usually means console access to the server, i.e. nothing to do with network
> topology.

I strongly suspect that what Dave meant was:

1) There's a switch at the ISP's central site that the services live on.
2) There's *another* switch that you and the other subscribers in your
area are connected to.
3) If you can reach the mail server via other means (IP-capable cellphone,
wireless from the local McDonalds, etc), it's more likely switch (2) than (1).

The real troubleshooting fun starts when you throw things like load balancers
and ethernet bonding into the the config. Nice things if they work, but can be
a bear to diagnose. If they're doing round-robin, they can end up hosing every
N'th connection (which is loads of fun when N is in the hundreds). The other
common failure mode is hashing each inbound's address to determine which back
end to go to and certain hash values end up in the bit bucket - so it all works
great unless your DHCP-supplied IP address is (when treated as a 32-bit number)
equal to 17 mod 39 or some siimilarl wierdness. The troubleshooting fun gets
even worse if the hash contains both the IP and the ephemeral port number - this
can result in intermittent issues that will take *month* to find and diagnose, because
most users will just hit reload, and since the ephemeral port on their end changed,
it works for them and they never report it...


james at zero-internet

Mar 18, 2012, 9:09 AM

Post #13 of 18 (1041 views)
Permalink
Re: is my ISP lying or stupid? [In reply to]

Sorry, I don't mean to be rude but none of that made any sense, especially from an ISP perspective.

You will never have a switch per area; it doesn't work like that, you'll have a series of distribution routers for routing to customers. Mail, www, shell, SIP, whatever will be other services which of course are on one to a milloin switches. Really doesn't matter as this has nothing to do with anything.

The routers of an ISP are sorta DHCP in the sense that the IPs are dynamic- DHCP really works as one network whereas an ISP switch will have a series of /30 vlans for obvious reasons. Getting an IP and connection is more complex than that but already we're down to a series of routers.

Somewhere in a datacenter (Lets keep it simple for now) is a cabinet with a bunch of servers in; one will do customer web space and so on. This cabinet will have a switch in and either this went or the router it is connected to.

They're not using teaming. They're not using loadbalancers. 17^39 is a bit of a weird one to even have to type out.

Somewhere someone pulled the wrong cable or someone broke a route. These are the two things which cause (In my experience) almost all of ISP issues. That or a switch died.

And whether they meant switch or not they said switch. Chances are they lost a blade or an SFP or whatever.

On 18 Mar 2012, at 15:47, Valdis.Kletnieks [at] vt wrote:

> On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 12:49:49 -0000, Peter Maxwell said:
>> On 16 March 2012 19:11, Dave <iryshman [at] gmail> wrote:
>>> Your ISP probably has their users are on different networks than their
>>> servers. Sounds like maybe they meant the switch you are on, not the
>>> servers switch. Need to troubleshoot, use a smart phone or some other OOB
>>> capable device to test access to the ISP servers. If you can access OOB,
>>> then maybe they aren't lying. Just a guess, you didnt provide much detail.
>
>> Unlikely, usually these switches are quite large and when a user has OOB it
>> usually means console access to the server, i.e. nothing to do with network
>> topology.
>
> I strongly suspect that what Dave meant was:
>
> 1) There's a switch at the ISP's central site that the services live on.
> 2) There's *another* switch that you and the other subscribers in your
> area are connected to.
> 3) If you can reach the mail server via other means (IP-capable cellphone,
> wireless from the local McDonalds, etc), it's more likely switch (2) than (1).
>
> The real troubleshooting fun starts when you throw things like load balancers
> and ethernet bonding into the the config. Nice things if they work, but can be
> a bear to diagnose. If they're doing round-robin, they can end up hosing every
> N'th connection (which is loads of fun when N is in the hundreds). The other
> common failure mode is hashing each inbound's address to determine which back
> end to go to and certain hash values end up in the bit bucket - so it all works
> great unless your DHCP-supplied IP address is (when treated as a 32-bit number)
> equal to 17 mod 39 or some siimilarl wierdness. The troubleshooting fun gets
> even worse if the hash contains both the IP and the ephemeral port number - this
> can result in intermittent issues that will take *month* to find and diagnose, because
> most users will just hit reload, and since the ephemeral port on their end changed,
> it works for them and they never report it...
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/


ler762 at gmail

Mar 18, 2012, 11:03 AM

Post #14 of 18 (1035 views)
Permalink
Re: is my ISP lying or stupid? [In reply to]

On 3/18/12, James Condron <james [at] zero-internet> wrote:
> Sorry, I don't mean to be rude but none of that made any sense, especially
> from an ISP perspective.

None of it made any sense wrt the initial question of is my isp lying
but, allowing for the typical Kletnieks hyperbole, it does make sense
as a list of weird networking problems I've seen.

Lee


> You will never have a switch per area; it doesn't work like that, you'll
> have a series of distribution routers for routing to customers. Mail, www,
> shell, SIP, whatever will be other services which of course are on one to a
> milloin switches. Really doesn't matter as this has nothing to do with
> anything.
>
> The routers of an ISP are sorta DHCP in the sense that the IPs are dynamic-
> DHCP really works as one network whereas an ISP switch will have a series of
> /30 vlans for obvious reasons. Getting an IP and connection is more complex
> than that but already we're down to a series of routers.
>
> Somewhere in a datacenter (Lets keep it simple for now) is a cabinet with a
> bunch of servers in; one will do customer web space and so on. This cabinet
> will have a switch in and either this went or the router it is connected to.
>
> They're not using teaming. They're not using loadbalancers. 17^39 is a bit
> of a weird one to even have to type out.
>
> Somewhere someone pulled the wrong cable or someone broke a route. These are
> the two things which cause (In my experience) almost all of ISP issues. That
> or a switch died.
>
> And whether they meant switch or not they said switch. Chances are they lost
> a blade or an SFP or whatever.
>
> On 18 Mar 2012, at 15:47, Valdis.Kletnieks [at] vt wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 12:49:49 -0000, Peter Maxwell said:
>>> On 16 March 2012 19:11, Dave <iryshman [at] gmail> wrote:
>>>> Your ISP probably has their users are on different networks than their
>>>> servers. Sounds like maybe they meant the switch you are on, not the
>>>> servers switch. Need to troubleshoot, use a smart phone or some other
>>>> OOB
>>>> capable device to test access to the ISP servers. If you can access
>>>> OOB,
>>>> then maybe they aren't lying. Just a guess, you didnt provide much
>>>> detail.
>>
>>> Unlikely, usually these switches are quite large and when a user has OOB
>>> it
>>> usually means console access to the server, i.e. nothing to do with
>>> network
>>> topology.
>>
>> I strongly suspect that what Dave meant was:
>>
>> 1) There's a switch at the ISP's central site that the services live on.
>> 2) There's *another* switch that you and the other subscribers in your
>> area are connected to.
>> 3) If you can reach the mail server via other means (IP-capable cellphone,
>> wireless from the local McDonalds, etc), it's more likely switch (2) than
>> (1).
>>
>> The real troubleshooting fun starts when you throw things like load
>> balancers
>> and ethernet bonding into the the config. Nice things if they work, but
>> can be
>> a bear to diagnose. If they're doing round-robin, they can end up hosing
>> every
>> N'th connection (which is loads of fun when N is in the hundreds). The
>> other
>> common failure mode is hashing each inbound's address to determine which
>> back
>> end to go to and certain hash values end up in the bit bucket - so it all
>> works
>> great unless your DHCP-supplied IP address is (when treated as a 32-bit
>> number)
>> equal to 17 mod 39 or some siimilarl wierdness. The troubleshooting fun
>> gets
>> even worse if the hash contains both the IP and the ephemeral port number
>> - this
>> can result in intermittent issues that will take *month* to find and
>> diagnose, because
>> most users will just hit reload, and since the ephemeral port on their end
>> changed,
>> it works for them and they never report it...
>> _______________________________________________
>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/


packetnull at gmail

Mar 20, 2012, 4:33 PM

Post #15 of 18 (988 views)
Permalink
Re: is my ISP lying or stupid? [In reply to]

Your ISP is lying thats the answer plain and simple... noc monkey's often conjure up stuff just so you go away typical in the ISP business. just laugh it out.. lol

On Mar 18, 2012, at 12:03 PM, Lee <ler762 [at] gmail> wrote:

> On 3/18/12, James Condron <james [at] zero-internet> wrote:
>> Sorry, I don't mean to be rude but none of that made any sense, especially
>> from an ISP perspective.
>
> None of it made any sense wrt the initial question of is my isp lying
> but, allowing for the typical Kletnieks hyperbole, it does make sense
> as a list of weird networking problems I've seen.
>
> Lee
>
>
>> You will never have a switch per area; it doesn't work like that, you'll
>> have a series of distribution routers for routing to customers. Mail, www,
>> shell, SIP, whatever will be other services which of course are on one to a
>> milloin switches. Really doesn't matter as this has nothing to do with
>> anything.
>>
>> The routers of an ISP are sorta DHCP in the sense that the IPs are dynamic-
>> DHCP really works as one network whereas an ISP switch will have a series of
>> /30 vlans for obvious reasons. Getting an IP and connection is more complex
>> than that but already we're down to a series of routers.
>>
>> Somewhere in a datacenter (Lets keep it simple for now) is a cabinet with a
>> bunch of servers in; one will do customer web space and so on. This cabinet
>> will have a switch in and either this went or the router it is connected to.
>>
>> They're not using teaming. They're not using loadbalancers. 17^39 is a bit
>> of a weird one to even have to type out.
>>
>> Somewhere someone pulled the wrong cable or someone broke a route. These are
>> the two things which cause (In my experience) almost all of ISP issues. That
>> or a switch died.
>>
>> And whether they meant switch or not they said switch. Chances are they lost
>> a blade or an SFP or whatever.
>>
>> On 18 Mar 2012, at 15:47, Valdis.Kletnieks [at] vt wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 12:49:49 -0000, Peter Maxwell said:
>>>> On 16 March 2012 19:11, Dave <iryshman [at] gmail> wrote:
>>>>> Your ISP probably has their users are on different networks than their
>>>>> servers. Sounds like maybe they meant the switch you are on, not the
>>>>> servers switch. Need to troubleshoot, use a smart phone or some other
>>>>> OOB
>>>>> capable device to test access to the ISP servers. If you can access
>>>>> OOB,
>>>>> then maybe they aren't lying. Just a guess, you didnt provide much
>>>>> detail.
>>>
>>>> Unlikely, usually these switches are quite large and when a user has OOB
>>>> it
>>>> usually means console access to the server, i.e. nothing to do with
>>>> network
>>>> topology.
>>>
>>> I strongly suspect that what Dave meant was:
>>>
>>> 1) There's a switch at the ISP's central site that the services live on.
>>> 2) There's *another* switch that you and the other subscribers in your
>>> area are connected to.
>>> 3) If you can reach the mail server via other means (IP-capable cellphone,
>>> wireless from the local McDonalds, etc), it's more likely switch (2) than
>>> (1).
>>>
>>> The real troubleshooting fun starts when you throw things like load
>>> balancers
>>> and ethernet bonding into the the config. Nice things if they work, but
>>> can be
>>> a bear to diagnose. If they're doing round-robin, they can end up hosing
>>> every
>>> N'th connection (which is loads of fun when N is in the hundreds). The
>>> other
>>> common failure mode is hashing each inbound's address to determine which
>>> back
>>> end to go to and certain hash values end up in the bit bucket - so it all
>>> works
>>> great unless your DHCP-supplied IP address is (when treated as a 32-bit
>>> number)
>>> equal to 17 mod 39 or some siimilarl wierdness. The troubleshooting fun
>>> gets
>>> even worse if the hash contains both the IP and the ephemeral port number
>>> - this
>>> can result in intermittent issues that will take *month* to find and
>>> diagnose, because
>>> most users will just hit reload, and since the ephemeral port on their end
>>> changed,
>>> it works for them and they never report it...
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/


giles at coochey

Mar 21, 2012, 8:48 AM

Post #16 of 18 (985 views)
Permalink
Re: is my ISP lying or stupid? [In reply to]

On 2012-03-18 16:09, James Condron wrote:
>
> The routers of an ISP are sorta DHCP in the sense that the IPs are
> dynamic- DHCP really works as one network whereas an ISP switch will
> have a series of /30 vlans for obvious reasons. Getting an IP and
> connection is more complex than that but already we're down to a
> series of routers.
>
No, they'd use private VLANs with the default router in a promiscuous
sub-VLAN. That way they won't have to waste 4 IPs for every customer.
Customers with multiple IPs can be put in community sub-VLANs, if they
pay for it.
Networking works very differently within Service Provider networks. A
lot of it is technology that makes itself look like other technologies
you might be familiar with, but what is happening behind the scenes is
actually completely different.

Just thought you might like to know.

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/


thor at hammerofgod

Mar 21, 2012, 8:59 AM

Post #17 of 18 (993 views)
Permalink
Re: is my ISP lying or stupid? [In reply to]

Actually, those promiscuous sub-VLANs are bad news. I got a virus from one that turned my hard drive into a floppy.

t

>-----Original Message-----
>From: full-disclosure-bounces [at] lists [mailto:full-disclosure-
>bounces [at] lists] On Behalf Of Giles Coochey
>Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 8:49 AM
>To: full-disclosure [at] lists
>Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] is my ISP lying or stupid?
>
>On 2012-03-18 16:09, James Condron wrote:
>>
>> The routers of an ISP are sorta DHCP in the sense that the IPs are
>> dynamic- DHCP really works as one network whereas an ISP switch will
>> have a series of /30 vlans for obvious reasons. Getting an IP and
>> connection is more complex than that but already we're down to a
>> series of routers.
>>
>No, they'd use private VLANs with the default router in a promiscuous sub-
>VLAN. That way they won't have to waste 4 IPs for every customer.
>Customers with multiple IPs can be put in community sub-VLANs, if they pay
>for it.
>Networking works very differently within Service Provider networks. A lot of it
>is technology that makes itself look like other technologies you might be
>familiar with, but what is happening behind the scenes is actually completely
>different.
>
>Just thought you might like to know.
>
>_______________________________________________
>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

_______________________________________________
Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/


abuie at kwdservices

Mar 22, 2012, 5:46 PM

Post #18 of 18 (972 views)
Permalink
Re: is my ISP lying or stupid? [In reply to]

Hahahah, that's wonderful.
On Mar 21, 2012 12:06 PM, "Thor (Hammer of God)" <thor [at] hammerofgod>
wrote:

> Actually, those promiscuous sub-VLANs are bad news. I got a virus from
> one that turned my hard drive into a floppy.
>
> t
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: full-disclosure-bounces [at] lists [mailto:full-disclosure-
> >bounces [at] lists] On Behalf Of Giles Coochey
> >Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 8:49 AM
> >To: full-disclosure [at] lists
> >Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] is my ISP lying or stupid?
> >
> >On 2012-03-18 16:09, James Condron wrote:
> >>
> >> The routers of an ISP are sorta DHCP in the sense that the IPs are
> >> dynamic- DHCP really works as one network whereas an ISP switch will
> >> have a series of /30 vlans for obvious reasons. Getting an IP and
> >> connection is more complex than that but already we're down to a
> >> series of routers.
> >>
> >No, they'd use private VLANs with the default router in a promiscuous sub-
> >VLAN. That way they won't have to waste 4 IPs for every customer.
> >Customers with multiple IPs can be put in community sub-VLANs, if they pay
> >for it.
> >Networking works very differently within Service Provider networks. A lot
> of it
> >is technology that makes itself look like other technologies you might be
> >familiar with, but what is happening behind the scenes is actually
> completely
> >different.
> >
> >Just thought you might like to know.
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> >Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> >Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>

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