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Commercial releases of MythTV?

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simon at koala

Mar 19, 2004, 3:14 PM

Post #51 of 73 (14142 views)
Permalink

Re: Commercial releases of MythTV? [In reply to]

they include a tv_grab_au

On Friday 19 March 2004 18:19, steve [at] nexusuk wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Stelios Valavanis wrote:
> > i'm surprised nobody from D1 has chimed in here. i think commercial
> > efforts are a big boost to mythtv (and all open source efforts) even if
> > they don't contribute funds though they should.
>
> I fully agree that commercial systems running MythTV are a Good Thing.
> However, it would be nice for D1 to post to the lists using their own
> domain name in the email addresses or clearly signing the messages so that
> everyone here can see what contributions they're making. IMHO if they are
> seen to be contributing then there should be no bad feelings from either
> side.
>
> I do, however, believe that there is a difference between _building upon_
> some software to make a product (e.g. if you sell a web-based
> product that run's on Apache) and actually using some software _as_ the
> product. In the case of Myth, I would consider it to be a end user
> product itself rather than being the building block for another product,
> and I would argue that in that case it is not right to completely strip
> out the Myth branding (maybe they should leave a small MythTV logo in the
> corner of the theme).
>
> Just my 2 eurocents worth :)
>
> On another note, does anyone know what D1 are using to provide the
> listings? Are they scraping some site with xmltv or are they providing
> the listings themselves?

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simon at koala

Mar 19, 2004, 3:23 PM

Post #52 of 73 (14141 views)
Permalink

Re: Commercial releases of MythTV? [In reply to]

the manual says that the code is on the disk of the machine. the implication
is that the cd is an update to that source. i would suspect that the two have
to be taken together.

anyone bought one? - if so, can we have a copy of the code
unless somebody who has bought a copy is willing to fess up, we are subject to
the whims of D1. see:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCDoesTheGPLRequireAvailabilityToPublic

regards
--
simon

On Friday 19 March 2004 18:46, Aaron Stewart wrote:
> I need to preface this by saying (as I have not yet), Go for it D1 --
> I'm glad you got it working, and I wish you success.
>
> That being said, it would be great if they could give credit where
> credit is due -- put a heavier mention on their site of MythTV (if for
> no other reason than to get some business off of people doing a search
> for it on Google), encourage people to check out the project site,
> contribute, whatever.
>
> On a more disappointed note, I noticed that their bundled "source" does
> not include a.) A copy of the GPL, b.) A copy of the source for
> mythfilldatabase (it's compiled, and that's all you get), c.) any
> makefiles, d.) configure scripts, e.) any source file from mythtv that
> they haven't modified.
>
> In other words, it appears (at a glance) as though they've just included
> source files that they've modified to suit their needs, excluding the
> rest from their bundle, with no logical way of building short of
> recreating makefiles from scratch. I *think* that this is fine legally,
> and that they've made an effort to be compliant with the GPL, and
> despite a few glaring issues, I'm sure we could let it go.
>
> Unless, of course, one of the mythtv project primaries wants to drop
> them a note and give them a headsup and thank you.. Might go a long way
> toward developer relations.
>
> Cheers..
> Aaron
>
> On Fri, 2004-03-19 at 10:19, steve [at] nexusuk wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Stelios Valavanis wrote:
> > > i'm surprised nobody from D1 has chimed in here. i think commercial
> > > efforts are a big boost to mythtv (and all open source efforts) even if
> > > they don't contribute funds though they should.
> >
> > I fully agree that commercial systems running MythTV are a Good Thing.
> > However, it would be nice for D1 to post to the lists using their own
> > domain name in the email addresses or clearly signing the messages so
> > that everyone here can see what contributions they're making. IMHO if
> > they are seen to be contributing then there should be no bad feelings
> > from either side.
> >
> > I do, however, believe that there is a difference between _building upon_
> > some software to make a product (e.g. if you sell a web-based
> > product that run's on Apache) and actually using some software _as_ the
> > product. In the case of Myth, I would consider it to be a end user
> > product itself rather than being the building block for another product,
> > and I would argue that in that case it is not right to completely strip
> > out the Myth branding (maybe they should leave a small MythTV logo in the
> > corner of the theme).
> >
> > Just my 2 eurocents worth :)
> >
> > On another note, does anyone know what D1 are using to provide the
> > listings? Are they scraping some site with xmltv or are they providing
> > the listings themselves?
> >
> > - --
> >
> > - Steve
> > http://www.nexusuk.org/
> >
> > Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)
> > Comment: Public key available at http://www.nexusuk.org/pubkey.txt
> >
> > iD8DBQFAWzma5zUOsIV3bqERAvpLAJ9GMAaLeFk1D5MKXY52V9/+TZlXygCfT5ia
> > Lr9QbUifwrkVDtYdFx902jo=
> > =9dYk
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtv-users mailing list
> > mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

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lists at forevermore

Mar 19, 2004, 3:51 PM

Post #53 of 73 (14163 views)
Permalink

Re: Commercial releases of MythTV? [In reply to]

> anyone bought one? - if so, can we have a copy of the code
> unless somebody who has bought a copy is willing to fess up, we are subject to
> the whims of D1. see:
> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCDoesTheGPLRequireAvailabilityToPublic

The code is freely available inside their downloadable ISO.

This one is the one I think more of us are concerned with:

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#WhyMustIInclude

-Chris

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ajd1 at optusnet

Mar 19, 2004, 4:51 PM

Post #54 of 73 (14154 views)
Permalink

Re: Commercial releases of MythTV? [In reply to]

Hello.

My name is Andrew Jamieson, and I work for Development One.

(Pause whilst I don my flame retardant - but probably not nearly enough -
suit).

Let me first explain that I personally am not a coder, and can probably only
answer some of your questions - and infact some of my answers may even be
wrong. It's Saturday morning here, and any specific code related questions
may have to wait until Monday morning, or at least until one of the
programmers pops up in my messenger. However, I am willing to answer
whatever I can, and will hunt down answers for which I have no immediate
knowledge.

(I'm also writing this at the same time as I am being clambered over by my
two kids, so if my responses take a while, please bear with me :)

Yesterday, our 'head' programmer sent an email to Isaac which we intended to
be the beginning of a dialogue with the myth community. However, I feel now
that it is past time for us to make a post on this thread to provide some
answers to your questions. So here goes:

* If we are found to be violating the GPL in any way, we will immediately
take steps to rectify this. Any lack here is in no way deliberate or
malicious.
* We fully intend to give back to the myth community. The first steps
toward this involve opening up the use of our Australia specific EPG data
(which we purchase from a supplier of such information), and weather
information (which we obtain directly from the Bureau of Meteorology here in
Australia). This information is supplied in the form of a web service from
our site, the information for which will have to wait until Isaac gets his
mail, or I can get hold of a coder - 'cos I just have no idea :)
* I am busy writing an updated user manual for our product. This will
unfortunately not be directly applicable to standard mythTV due to UI
changes we have made. However, I will take it upon myself to provide a user
manual document for mythTV.
* Many of the changes we have made have been to improve the 'remote
control only' features of mythTV. I am unsure how easily these will apply
to the current version of myth, but we are certainly willing to share
anything we have done.
* If ppl want, I can provide a simplified IR receiver circuit diagram.
This will not be derived directly from our project, but I am a HW engineer
by education (if not by beer consumption alone :) and can certainly create
an easy solution for those who are intimidated by existing DIY solutions.
* We are currently working on getting HD digital working here in
Australia. Once this has been done, our findings / code will be supplied
back to the community.

Please feel free to ask any questions you may have. I will reply as quickly
and accurately as I can (however it is Saturday, so I will not be at my
computer all the time today).

Regards,

Andrew Jamieson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Petersen" <lists [at] forevermore>
To: "Discussion about mythtv" <mythtv-users [at] mythtv>
Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Commercial releases of MythTV?

> > anyone bought one? - if so, can we have a copy of the code
> > unless somebody who has bought a copy is willing to fess up, we are
subject to
> > the whims of D1. see:
> >
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCDoesTheGPLRequireAvailabilityToP
ublic
>
> The code is freely available inside their downloadable ISO.
>
> This one is the one I think more of us are concerned with:
>
> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#WhyMustIInclude
>
> -Chris
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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lists at forevermore

Mar 19, 2004, 5:16 PM

Post #55 of 73 (14163 views)
Permalink

Re: Commercial releases of MythTV? [In reply to]

> (Pause whilst I don my flame retardant - but probably not nearly enough -
> suit).

No flames from me. I'm happy to see any company that can manage to make
money by using open source technology (I work for a very
open-source-friendly rackmount systems integrator, and I must say that
it's a refreshing change from my last job). Congratulations on being
able to bring your products to market - looks like a great system, and I
hope you do well with it.

> * If we are found to be violating the GPL in any way, we will immediately
> take steps to rectify this. Any lack here is in no way deliberate or
> malicious.

I haven't personally verified this, but judging from others' comments,
it appears that your source tarball is missing its requisite copy of the
GPL. I think that's the only thing I've seen, and if the file is
actually there, just ignore this whole comment.

-Chris

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orn.hansen at swipnet

Mar 19, 2004, 5:29 PM

Post #56 of 73 (14153 views)
Permalink

Re: Commercial releases of MythTV? [In reply to]

fredag 19 mars 2004 10:15 skrev Simon Kenyon:
> and another thing
> if i can get my boxes set up this way - i will joing them in selling it
> so maybe i'm not contributing much (very little in fact)
> but i must spend about 1-2 hours a day on myth - fiddling; trying to get it
> to work to a level that i *could* sell it
>
The project is superb, there is one bug I've found and one showstopper. The
bug is, that when I type R to record a live TV. It will start recording, but
pressing R again, won't stop recording.

The showstopper, is XMLTV. I'm in sweden, and the latest tv_grab_sn was
sabotaged by the tv guide provider site, and the newest grabber is also
seemingly getting sabotage as well. Why, the given sites are sabotaging
this, is just as much your guess as mine... but the deliberate action of
stopping xmltv from getting the tv guide, is a fact. And while MythTV relies
on such mechanism ... it's a showstopper. The only solution, if one intends
to sell a ready made Linux box with MythTV on it, is to create a site that is
updated daily with the given program guides and let MythTV download from
there. In this way, there is no sabotage taking place...

> when was the last time you paid linus?
>
I buy SuSE distribution, and let them worry about the details. That's also
how I see it, percentage of sales being donated to the founders.

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steve at nexusuk

Mar 19, 2004, 5:34 PM

Post #57 of 73 (14161 views)
Permalink

Re: Commercial releases of MythTV? [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004, Andrew Jamieson wrote:

> My name is Andrew Jamieson, and I work for Development One.

Good to see the folks at Development One are reading the list :)
As I've said in my other mails, I think the commercial use of Myth is a
Good Thing, but some thoughts:

- - Maybe including a small "MythTV" logo in the corner of your theme would
be nice since it gives credit to all the developers who have contributed
to the project.
- - If all the posts to the lists come from the Development One domain then
it gives eveyone a better idea of how you guys are involved with the
project (which I think is good for everyone concerned - you guys get
credit for your work and publicity on the mailing lists, since I suspect
there are a few people who are either about to start setting up a Myth box
or have got part way without much luck and would be really interested in
buying a commercial version that's already packaged up and working).

> * Many of the changes we have made have been to improve the 'remote
> control only' features of mythTV. I am unsure how easily these will apply
> to the current version of myth, but we are certainly willing to share
> anything we have done.

Remember that most of us use remote controls exclusively to control our
Myth systems so this kind of thing may well be very relevant.

- --

- Steve http://www.nexusuk.org/

Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence

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acs at hourglassone

Mar 19, 2004, 5:46 PM

Post #58 of 73 (14167 views)
Permalink

Re: Commercial releases of MythTV? [In reply to]

Better yet, how about utilizing some swarm based download app (such as
bittorrent) to facilitate?

On Fri, 2004-03-19 at 16:29, �rn Hansen wrote:
> fredag 19 mars 2004 10:15 skrev Simon Kenyon:
> > and another thing
> > if i can get my boxes set up this way - i will joing them in selling it
> > so maybe i'm not contributing much (very little in fact)
> > but i must spend about 1-2 hours a day on myth - fiddling; trying to get it
> > to work to a level that i *could* sell it
> >
> The project is superb, there is one bug I've found and one showstopper. The
> bug is, that when I type R to record a live TV. It will start recording, but
> pressing R again, won't stop recording.
>
> The showstopper, is XMLTV. I'm in sweden, and the latest tv_grab_sn was
> sabotaged by the tv guide provider site, and the newest grabber is also
> seemingly getting sabotage as well. Why, the given sites are sabotaging
> this, is just as much your guess as mine... but the deliberate action of
> stopping xmltv from getting the tv guide, is a fact. And while MythTV relies
> on such mechanism ... it's a showstopper. The only solution, if one intends
> to sell a ready made Linux box with MythTV on it, is to create a site that is
> updated daily with the given program guides and let MythTV download from
> there. In this way, there is no sabotage taking place...
>
> > when was the last time you paid linus?
> >
> I buy SuSE distribution, and let them worry about the details. That's also
> how I see it, percentage of sales being donated to the founders.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users [at] mythtv
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

lists at forevermore

Mar 19, 2004, 6:09 PM

Post #59 of 73 (14162 views)
Permalink

Re: TV Data Feeds (was: Commercial releases of MythTV?) [In reply to]

> Better yet, how about utilizing some swarm based download app (such as
> bittorrent) to facilitate?

The TV data belongs to the TV data sites. It's a copyright violation,
or something like it, to "share" the data with unauthorized parties.
Other than that, not everyone is willing to open up their firewalls to
their mythtv boxes so something like bittorrent can work.

A better (albeit more difficult) method would be to work directly with
the TV data distributors and see if we can work out a deal for getting
full, legal feeds.

eg. I'd personally have NO problem with sending my viewing/recording
habit data into a company like zap2it in exchange for free listings.
After all, that's just one way a company like Tivo tries to offset
costs. And since mythtv is open source, it would be VERY easy to see
exactly what data is being sent, and make sure that no personal data
gets used, other than maybe some demographic info like zip/postal code
(needed for listings, anyway) and age.

-Chris

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slebrun at scopus

Mar 19, 2004, 6:41 PM

Post #60 of 73 (14180 views)
Permalink

Re: Commercial releases of MythTV? [In reply to]

Hi Andrew.

As the instigator of the thread, I thought I'd say hello. :-)

My main gripe wasn't with Development 1 selling a prepackaged MythTV
solution. I was annoyed by the fact that neither the article published
in Australian Personal Computer nor Development 1's website acknowledged
the origins of the code.

Scott Le Brun

>>> ajd1 [at] optusnet 03/20/04 10:51 AM >>>
Hello.

My name is Andrew Jamieson, and I work for Development One.

(Pause whilst I don my flame retardant - but probably not nearly enough
-
suit).

Let me first explain that I personally am not a coder, and can probably
only
answer some of your questions - and infact some of my answers may even
be
wrong. It's Saturday morning here, and any specific code related
questions
may have to wait until Monday morning, or at least until one of the
programmers pops up in my messenger. However, I am willing to answer
whatever I can, and will hunt down answers for which I have no immediate
knowledge.

(I'm also writing this at the same time as I am being clambered over by
my
two kids, so if my responses take a while, please bear with me :)

Yesterday, our 'head' programmer sent an email to Isaac which we
intended to
be the beginning of a dialogue with the myth community. However, I feel
now
that it is past time for us to make a post on this thread to provide
some
answers to your questions. So here goes:

* If we are found to be violating the GPL in any way, we will
immediately
take steps to rectify this. Any lack here is in no way deliberate or
malicious.
* We fully intend to give back to the myth community. The first
steps
toward this involve opening up the use of our Australia specific EPG
data
(which we purchase from a supplier of such information), and weather
information (which we obtain directly from the Bureau of Meteorology
here in
Australia). This information is supplied in the form of a web service
from
our site, the information for which will have to wait until Isaac gets
his
mail, or I can get hold of a coder - 'cos I just have no idea :)
* I am busy writing an updated user manual for our product. This
will
unfortunately not be directly applicable to standard mythTV due to UI
changes we have made. However, I will take it upon myself to provide a
user
manual document for mythTV.
* Many of the changes we have made have been to improve the 'remote
control only' features of mythTV. I am unsure how easily these will
apply
to the current version of myth, but we are certainly willing to share
anything we have done.
* If ppl want, I can provide a simplified IR receiver circuit
diagram.
This will not be derived directly from our project, but I am a HW
engineer
by education (if not by beer consumption alone :) and can certainly
create
an easy solution for those who are intimidated by existing DIY
solutions.
* We are currently working on getting HD digital working here in
Australia. Once this has been done, our findings / code will be
supplied
back to the community.

Please feel free to ask any questions you may have. I will reply as
quickly
and accurately as I can (however it is Saturday, so I will not be at my
computer all the time today).

Regards,

Andrew Jamieson

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Petersen" <lists [at] forevermore>
To: "Discussion about mythtv" <mythtv-users [at] mythtv>
Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Commercial releases of MythTV?

> > anyone bought one? - if so, can we have a copy of the code
> > unless somebody who has bought a copy is willing to fess up, we are
subject to
> > the whims of D1. see:
> >
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCDoesTheGPLRequireAvailabilityToP
ublic
>
> The code is freely available inside their downloadable ISO.
>
> This one is the one I think more of us are concerned with:
>
> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#WhyMustIInclude
>
> -Chris
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users [at] mythtv
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.619 / Virus Database: 398 - Release Date: 11/03/2004

_______________________________________________
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bam at snoopy

Mar 20, 2004, 12:01 AM

Post #61 of 73 (14130 views)
Permalink

Re: Commercial releases of MythTV? [In reply to]

>>>>> "�rn" == �rn Hansen <orn.hansen [at] swipnet> writes:

�rn> The showstopper, is XMLTV. I'm in sweden, and the latest
�rn> tv_grab_sn was sabotaged by the tv guide provider site, and
�rn> the newest grabber is also seemingly getting sabotage as
�rn> well. Why, the given sites are sabotaging this, is just as
�rn> much your guess as mine... but the deliberate action of
�rn> stopping xmltv from getting the tv guide, is a fact. And
�rn> while MythTV relies on such mechanism ... it's a showstopper.
�rn> The only solution, if one intends to sell a ready made Linux
�rn> box with MythTV on it, is to create a site that is updated
�rn> daily with the given program guides and let MythTV download
�rn> from there. In this way, there is no sabotage taking
�rn> place...

In Australia, you can get XMLTV data, but it lacks details (unless you
don't mind 1200+ hits on the remote server...) and accuracy. The
servers were simply not designed for non-interactive downloading of
the entire program guide for the week.

As a general rule, TV shows here are regularly and deliberately
scheduled to run anything from 5 to 15 minutes late. This means MythTV
will record most of the show, but chop out the last bit.

In MythTV 0.14 you can tell it to continue recording past the
designated end time of the show (I couldn't find the option in MythWeb
though), this makes certain things more complicated though, eg. if you
want to record another program immediately after this one ends (either
on the same channel or different channel) using the same input card.

As a work around for some of the problems, I have tried using manual
recoding, so I can record a number of programs as "one". This prevents
having to work out start/stop times for each one, which are prone to
be wrong anyway. However, I haven't been able to work out how to tell
MythTV "record from xx:xx to yy:yy every weekday", instead it appears
I must manually configure it for each day(?).
--
Brian May <bam [at] snoopy>
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ajd1 at optusnet

Mar 20, 2004, 12:54 AM

Post #62 of 73 (14159 views)
Permalink

Re: Commercial releases of MythTV? [In reply to]

> Hi Andrew.
>
> As the instigator of the thread, I thought I'd say hello. :-)
>
> My main gripe wasn't with Development 1 selling a prepackaged MythTV
> solution. I was annoyed by the fact that neither the article published
> in Australian Personal Computer nor Development 1's website acknowledged
> the origins of the code.
>
> Scott Le Brun
>

Hi Scott,

We had very little input to the review - we we're not given a copy at all,
and had to buy the magazine like everyone else; indeed some of the magazines
subscribers saw it before we did. There are some errors in the review that
I wish I had been able to rectify before it was printed - this includes the
part where it refers to a 'proprietry' interface.

The website is not under my direct control, but I will investigate putting
an acknowledgement to mythTV up.

From: "Brian May" <bam [at] snoopy>
To: "Discussion about mythtv" <mythtv-users [at] mythtv>
Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 6:01 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Commercial releases of MythTV?

> In Australia, you can get XMLTV data, but it lacks details (unless you
> don't mind 1200+ hits on the remote server...) and accuracy. The
> servers were simply not designed for non-interactive downloading of
> the entire program guide for the week.
>

Our guide has detail information, so you'll get that as soon as the grabber
is integrated into myth proper.

> As a work around for some of the problems, I have tried using manual
> recoding, so I can record a number of programs as "one". This prevents
> having to work out start/stop times for each one, which are prone to
> be wrong anyway. However, I haven't been able to work out how to tell
> MythTV "record from xx:xx to yy:yy every weekday", instead it appears
> I must manually configure it for each day(?).
> --

In the advanced recording menu (press 'i' twice in the EPG - I think :) you
can set a minutes before / after for the recording. I like to use 15 mins
for Aus, for the very reasons you talk about. If you want to record a whole
block of programs every X night, just set the first one to record as per the
recording profile that suits, and then add 60/120/180 minutes after to get
the rest.

Also, someone mentioned instant recording (in another thread?). We're
looking into this, but an easy work around at the moment is EPG - record
from Live TV (ie 'm' and 'r' - again I think). This will commence recording
the program you are watching. Pressing 'm' again will take you back to the
recording.

Andrew Jamieson

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orn.hansen at swipnet

Mar 20, 2004, 2:55 AM

Post #63 of 73 (14113 views)
Permalink

Re: Commercial releases of MythTV? [In reply to]

l�rdag 20 mars 2004 01:46 skrev Aaron Stewart:
> Better yet, how about utilizing some swarm based download app (such as
> bittorrent) to facilitate?
>

Not familiar with bittorrent, but anything that works and can't be directly
sabotaged by a third party.
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bam at snoopy

Mar 20, 2004, 3:00 AM

Post #64 of 73 (14159 views)
Permalink

Re: Commercial releases of MythTV? [In reply to]

>>>>> "Andrew" == Andrew Jamieson <ajd1 [at] optusnet> writes:

>> In Australia, you can get XMLTV data, but it lacks details
>> (unless you don't mind 1200+ hits on the remote server...) and
>> accuracy. The servers were simply not designed for
>> non-interactive downloading of the entire program guide for the
>> week.
>>

Andrew> Our guide has detail information, so you'll get that as
Andrew> soon as the grabber is integrated into myth proper.

Great! Is there anywhere I can get a copy of the grabber for now?

>> As a work around for some of the problems, I have tried using
>> manual recoding, so I can record a number of programs as
>> "one". This prevents having to work out start/stop times for
>> each one, which are prone to be wrong anyway. However, I
>> haven't been able to work out how to tell MythTV "record from
>> xx:xx to yy:yy every weekday", instead it appears I must
>> manually configure it for each day(?). --

Andrew> In the advanced recording menu (press 'i' twice in the EPG
Andrew> - I think :) you can set a minutes before / after for the
Andrew> recording. I like to use 15 mins for Aus, for the very
Andrew> reasons you talk about. If you want to record a whole
Andrew> block of programs every X night, just set the first one to
Andrew> record as per the recording profile that suits, and then
Andrew> add 60/120/180 minutes after to get the rest.

Hmmm... I have considered this... It requires at least one program be
constant for every week day, this isn't always the case, eg. Dr Who
isn't on Friday.

Andrew> Also, someone mentioned instant recording (in another
Andrew> thread?). We're looking into this, but an easy work
Andrew> around at the moment is EPG - record from Live TV (ie 'm'
Andrew> and 'r' - again I think). This will commence recording
Andrew> the program you are watching. Pressing 'm' again will
Andrew> take you back to the recording.

With MythTV 0.14, if I push r, it starts recording, but it
automatically stops recording when the TV guide says the program
should finish. I haven't been able to stop recording on request (not
absolutely sure I have tried M, I think I have).
--
Brian May <bam [at] snoopy>

orn.hansen at swipnet

Mar 20, 2004, 3:05 AM

Post #65 of 73 (14152 views)
Permalink

Re: Re: TV Data Feeds (was: Commercial releases of MythTV?) [In reply to]

l�rdag 20 mars 2004 02:09 skrev Chris Petersen:
> The TV data belongs to the TV data sites. It's a copyright violation,
> or something like it, to "share" the data with unauthorized parties.
> Other than that, not everyone is willing to open up their firewalls to
> their mythtv boxes so something like bittorrent can work.
>
It's not really copyright infringement, if you're not copying it ... copying
implies distribution. It doesn't change anything for them, weather you the
individual, weather you view it with the web browser IE, Mozilla, or through
a browser in MythTV.

Of course, mythweb can be considered infringement, since it does facilitate
distribution of those sites content.

> A better (albeit more difficult) method would be to work directly with
> the TV data distributors and see if we can work out a deal for getting
> full, legal feeds.
>
> eg. I'd personally have NO problem with sending my viewing/recording
> habit data into a company like zap2it in exchange for free listings.
> After all, that's just one way a company like Tivo tries to offset
> costs. And since mythtv is open source, it would be VERY easy to see
> exactly what data is being sent, and make sure that no personal data
> gets used, other than maybe some demographic info like zip/postal code
> (needed for listings, anyway) and age.
>

The fact of the matter is, that most companies that would be creating such
ready made boxes, would be contacting some provider and make a deal with
them. As a company creating such boxes, wouldn't want such sites to suddenly
disappear and make their boxes unusable. The fact, that some of these sites
are "blocking" suggests, that to some company has made a deal for them "too
block". Perhaps, a rivalling company that is selling such media boxes.
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mythtv at lds

Mar 20, 2004, 9:33 AM

Post #66 of 73 (14157 views)
Permalink

Re: Commercial releases of MythTV? [In reply to]

Hi Andrew,

I think what you guys are doing with MythTV is very exciting and should give
it quite a boost. I also feel it shows the level of professionalist and
quality of MythTV.

I don't know how Development 1 feels about sharing details of their hardware
but would you at least tell me what capture and decoder cards you are using?
And perhaps what kind of CPU power it takes to power them?

I'm trying to get my Myth box stable like a commercial unit and it's just
not working. I think the problem could be my ivtv drivers but I'm not sure.
I'm using a PVR-250 and PVR-350 for capture cards and using the TV out of
the 350. My box also has to reboot every night or within 3 days or so Myth
will crash and I'll have to reboot anyway.

I'm going to try using an MX440 type card for my TV out so I can play DVDs
as well and hopefully get more stability in the box.

Thanks for any insite you might have that shows how you got such a stable
box you are able to sell it to the public.

Thanks
Malcolm

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Jamieson" <ajd1 [at] optusnet>
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 5:51 PM

> Hello.
>
> My name is Andrew Jamieson, and I work for Development One.
>
> (Pause whilst I don my flame retardant - but probably not nearly enough -
> suit).
>
> Let me first explain that I personally am not a coder, and can probably
only
> answer some of your questions - and infact some of my answers may even be
> wrong. It's Saturday morning here, and any specific code related
questions
> may have to wait until Monday morning, or at least until one of the
> programmers pops up in my messenger. However, I am willing to answer
> whatever I can, and will hunt down answers for which I have no immediate
> knowledge.
>
> (I'm also writing this at the same time as I am being clambered over by my
> two kids, so if my responses take a while, please bear with me :)
>
> Yesterday, our 'head' programmer sent an email to Isaac which we intended
to
> be the beginning of a dialogue with the myth community. However, I feel
now
> that it is past time for us to make a post on this thread to provide some
> answers to your questions. So here goes:
>
> * If we are found to be violating the GPL in any way, we will
immediately
> take steps to rectify this. Any lack here is in no way deliberate or
> malicious.
> * We fully intend to give back to the myth community. The first steps
> toward this involve opening up the use of our Australia specific EPG data
> (which we purchase from a supplier of such information), and weather
> information (which we obtain directly from the Bureau of Meteorology here
in
> Australia). This information is supplied in the form of a web service
from
> our site, the information for which will have to wait until Isaac gets his
> mail, or I can get hold of a coder - 'cos I just have no idea :)
> * I am busy writing an updated user manual for our product. This will
> unfortunately not be directly applicable to standard mythTV due to UI
> changes we have made. However, I will take it upon myself to provide a
user
> manual document for mythTV.
> * Many of the changes we have made have been to improve the 'remote
> control only' features of mythTV. I am unsure how easily these will apply
> to the current version of myth, but we are certainly willing to share
> anything we have done.
> * If ppl want, I can provide a simplified IR receiver circuit diagram.
> This will not be derived directly from our project, but I am a HW engineer
> by education (if not by beer consumption alone :) and can certainly create
> an easy solution for those who are intimidated by existing DIY solutions.
> * We are currently working on getting HD digital working here in
> Australia. Once this has been done, our findings / code will be supplied
> back to the community.
>
> Please feel free to ask any questions you may have. I will reply as
quickly
> and accurately as I can (however it is Saturday, so I will not be at my
> computer all the time today).
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Andrew Jamieson

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steve at nexusuk

Mar 20, 2004, 10:36 AM

Post #67 of 73 (14174 views)
Permalink

Re: Commercial releases of MythTV? [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004, �rn Hansen wrote:

> Not familiar with bittorrent, but anything that works and can't be directly
> sabotaged by a third party.

Bittorrent is simply a way of distributing large files to a large number
of people. It is a peer to peer system - there is a bittorrent server for
the file thats being served, people download the file in chunks from that
server. However, once a client has downloaded a chunk they make it
available to be downloaded from themselves to other people, so when other
clients request a chunk of the file from the server, the server will point
them at someone who has already downloaded the file. The end result is
that generally, the more people you have downloading a file, the faster it
goes since there are more sources. It is ideal for downloading linux ISOs
just after they have been released - the rush to get the ISO in the first
few hours usually kills traditional file transfer methods such as FTP and
HTTP.

- --

- Steve http://www.nexusuk.org/

Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence

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steve at nexusuk

Mar 20, 2004, 10:39 AM

Post #68 of 73 (14161 views)
Permalink

Re: Commercial releases of MythTV? [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004, Brian May wrote:

> With MythTV 0.14, if I push r, it starts recording, but it
> automatically stops recording when the TV guide says the program
> should finish. I haven't been able to stop recording on request (not
> absolutely sure I have tried M, I think I have).

There is a stop recording option on the Watch Recordings screen ISTR.

- --

- Steve http://www.nexusuk.org/

Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence

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bam at snoopy

Mar 21, 2004, 2:38 PM

Post #69 of 73 (14116 views)
Permalink

Re: Commercial releases of MythTV? [In reply to]

>>>>> "steve" == steve <steve [at] nexusuk> writes:

>> With MythTV 0.14, if I push r, it starts recording, but it
>> automatically stops recording when the TV guide says the
>> program should finish. I haven't been able to stop recording on
>> request (not absolutely sure I have tried M, I think I have).

steve> There is a stop recording option on the Watch Recordings
steve> screen ISTR.

I haven't been able to find it...
--
Brian May <bam [at] snoopy>

dan at milkcarton

Mar 21, 2004, 3:11 PM

Post #70 of 73 (14157 views)
Permalink

Re: Commercial releases of MythTV? [In reply to]

> steve> There is a stop recording option on the Watch Recordings
> steve> screen ISTR.
>
>I haven't been able to find it...
>
>
its in latest cvs

andrewjamieson at d1

Mar 21, 2004, 3:30 PM

Post #71 of 73 (14160 views)
Permalink

Re: Commercial releases of MythTV? [In reply to]

> steve> There is a stop recording option on the Watch Recordings
> steve> screen ISTR.
>
> I haven't been able to find it...
> --
> Brian May <bam [at] snoopy>
>

Select the recording in progress, and press 'i'. IIRC this will provide you
with some options - one of which is to stop the recording.

Andrew Jamieson

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chua_kianteck at yahoo

Mar 26, 2004, 12:59 AM

Post #72 of 73 (14129 views)
Permalink

Re: Commercial releases of MythTV? [In reply to]

Just to let everyone here know, slashdot is talking about this right now.

Cheers

steve at nexusuk

Mar 26, 2004, 1:09 AM

Post #73 of 73 (14135 views)
Permalink

Re: Commercial releases of MythTV? [In reply to]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Just spotted on Slashdot (they're slow at picking this one up aren't they?
:)

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/03/25/2222240&mode=thread&tid=129&tid=137&tid=188

Anonymous Coward writes "Australian Personal Computer magazine published a
review of a new all-in-one set-top-box based on linux. A quick analysis of
the device yields some cheats/hacks that not only allow you to enable the
advertisment skipping feature they disabled, but could allow system
compromise. The system also runs a GPL version of MythTV - anyone else see
any licensing issues?" Only if they don't follow the GPL.

- --

- Steve http://www.nexusuk.org/

Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence

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